Is there a threat display that I'm not aware of?

[ghettogenius]

Name a game that doesn't have a threat meter and is successful.

 

EQ2 has it. Rift has it.

 

I think Warhammer? Don't think conan has it... but it's conan, lol.

 

DDO has some of the fastest pace combat out there and in some cases has very complex boss mechanics. No meter there and people can tank just fine.

[darkehawke]

if its hitting you, you have threat. if not you dont

[Vitellius]

Last minute fixes? Those work out great. I would rather have it polished instead of being crappy and thrown in and full of bugs.

 

I think it's a flawed premise to try and shoe horn in a mechanic for the simple reason that "things might change later". And I say shoe horned because, as of now, the content is tuned with the understanding that the players don't have any hate metering.

[Telendria]

Umm... tons of people did. Onyxia was one of the first raid bosses ever added to WoW.

 

You probably didn't read whole post? I wasn't talking about killing her. I was talking about dpsing her. Yes, we killed it before we had KTM, too. How? We had to wait a full minute before we started dpsing it and then we had to be doing regular pauses, precisely because she was so unpredictable with her random threat lowering Wing Buffet. It wasn't "fun," it was a chore, you were never sure next Wing Buffet would turn her against someone else and you didn't know if you could squeeze more dps, because you were lower on threat that you thought...

[Thisisxonaz]

I think he meant to say;

 

bad tanks need threat meters.

 

I know plenty of tanks that are good tanks and don't need addons to make the game easy for them.

 

I always think, if the game was designed for threat meters they'd of put one in, simple enough the good tanks just don't need them.

 

You can say otherwise but it just would fall on deaf ears.

[Ruibard]

Maybe we should just give control of the toons to the server and it can make every decision for us in the name of "efficiency". I kid, I kid

 

Seriously though, there has to be a line. If I can plan out a battle so that everything goes my way right down to having my CDs complete at the exact moment I need them, I think that's giving the player a bit too much info.

 

Seeing if you're about to pull off someone is too much information? Also there can be a line, when the game will literally play for you.

[Amiracle]

Scenario 3

 

Dps does rotation as normal, boss swings around and instant gibs the dps before their GCD is up

 

Typical DPS pulling aggro, baddies will be bad.

 

 

 

Just because bosses aren't instant gibbing people right now doesn't mean they won't in the future.

 

 

Rez dps.

 

2nd pull, dps knows if he did what he did on the first pull he dies. DPS decides to do less damage and or uses ability to lose agro. Dps has learned and the rest of the run is fine.

 

or (I think this is your scenario)

 

Rez dps.

 

2nd pull, dps does exactly what he did on the first pull. Dies. Group asks dude...***?

DPS says its not his fault that the game didn't tell him what to do.

[Ruibard]

I think he meant to say;

 

bad tanks need threat meters.

 

I know plenty of tanks that are good tanks and don't need addons to make the game easy for them.

 

I always think, if the game was designed for threat meters they'd of put one in, simple enough the good tanks just don't need them.

 

You can say otherwise but it just would fall on deaf ears.

 

I play an MMO not an enclosed circle of friends, I'm trying to stay off of that course. Already did the enclosed circle of friends thing in WoW. I'm gonna play an MMO now.

[AmedusTOR]

TheHeadCapper, you may wish to review people's responses to your posts. It would seem that the vast majority disagree with you, and your posts are not particularly constructive.

 

*shrug* I agree with him. An aggro meter in this game would indeed be a crutch. Hate in this game is easily managed. I've yet to come across any encounter in which ripping aggro gets you killed instantly. Thus, well played tanks don't need the meter. As mentioned, I see it as a crutch.

Edited January 20, 2012 by AmedusTOR

[Ruibard]

Rez dps.

 

2nd pull, dps knows if he did what he did on the first pull he dies. DPS decides to do less damage and or uses ability to lose agro. Dps has learned and the rest of the run is fine.

 

or (I think this is your scenario)

 

Rez dps.

 

2nd pull, dps does exactly what he did on the first pull. Dies. Group asks dude...***?

DPS says its not his fault that the game didn't tell him what to do.

 

OR you can stop saying meters tell you how to play, it's totally up to the user how they use the info. You're relying on a false pretence that will automatically get the idea of what to do. There are people who will use threat dumping abilities say before a threat wipe or some other mechanic that would be more useful to use it on.

 

Stop living in a world where meters make you bad. Bad players will be bad with or without them a good player will know what to do with this information.

 

Then again min/max is bad I know sorry

[Ruibard]

*shrug* I agree with him. An aggro meter in this game would indeed be a crutch. Hate in this game is easily managed. I've yet to come across any encounter in which ripping aggro gets you killed instantly. Thus, well played tanks don't need the meter. As mentioned, I see it as a crutch.

 

Or you can be prepared for the future, but then again future planning is horrible idea who in the world plans things out!?

[Vitellius]

Seeing if you're about to pull off someone is too much information? Also there can be a line, when the game will literally play for you.

 

Yes. For example, if your map showed you every mob and their level in the room that you are in, that is too much information in the sense that it gives the player an advantage against the content. That is not a problem if the content is designed with that in mind. Since, it's safe to say, TOR has NOT been designed to with the idea that players have threat meters, then implementing them right now, without any changes to the game, would in fact be too much information.

 

If you consider the game controlling your character as the STARTING point for your line, then we are VERY far apart from each other on what players should and should not have the ability to do.

[Tillycat]

I tanked every encounter in wow and never used a single threat meter

[--Grim--]

Check your health bar..

[MegaBubble]

OR you can stop saying meters tell you how to play, it's totally up to the user how they use the info. You're relying on a false pretence that will automatically get the idea of what to do. There are people who will use threat dumping abilities say before a threat wipe or some other mechanic that would be more useful to use it on.

 

Stop living in a world where meters make you bad. Bad players will be bad with or without them a good player will know what to do with this information.

 

Then again min/max is bad I know sorry

 

Min/Maxing, threat meters, and the like aren't "bad". What's bad is when those add-ons become the standard, to the point that if I don't have them I'm considered incapable of playing competetively in content by the community at large. As was said in the OP, if you didn't have certain add-ons, this is how you were viewed. I'm not a fan of not being able to get a PUG unless I have "X" add-on.

[XLauncher]

If some of you don't want a threat meter, that's a fine opinion, but please, stop putting forth the ridiculous idea that it makes you more skilled and similar nonsense. There is no skill in not pulling threat, as the game is now. You can hardly tell what your tank doing, whether they're using a good rotation, or just using Strike and Retaliation when it pops up, thus, you have no idea how high a threat ceiling you're working under.

 

As it is now, when I play my Sniper, I am straight up guessing how much damage I can do before I should chill out for a few seconds. Most of the time, I guess pretty well and don't pull threat, but here's the thing: sometimes, it might not be necessary for me to hold back, but I won't know because I have no idea how far from my threat ceiling I am.

 

If you enjoy this guessing game, that's cool, but that's all it is: guessing.

[Batslav]

addons are for lazy ppl and ppl who cant rly play

they make things too easy and its like semi-auto playing

 

i dont mind implementing of some kind of agro warning but i dont want addons in the game

Edited January 20, 2012 by Batslav

[Vydor_HC]

Play the encounter, not the add on, ie Watch the mobs and what you're doing, not the meter. Just dumbing down the game.

[Vitellius]

If some of you don't want a threat meter, that's a fine opinion, but please, stop putting forth the ridiculous idea that it makes you more skilled and similar nonsense. There is no skill in not pulling threat, as the game is now.

 

If you enjoy this guessing game, that's cool, but that's all it is: guessing.

 

I'll agree in that it isn't fair to say someone that DOESN'T pull aggro is more skilled then someone that does. As you said, there is a level of guessing and of course you won't always guess right.

 

For me, the argument is what do you do WHEN you pull aggro. A skilled player will take advantage of the techniques and abilities available to them to shift the aggro back...like a tennis game. And if they are REALLY skilled, as the fight goes on, they will be able to recognize how to minimize pulling off the tank, for that specific fight because bosses will not always be the same.

 

As a sniper, I enjoy the guessing, but I digress. Hate meters are an all or nothing thing. You either never have them, or you have to have them. There can be no grey area. Even WoW HAD to make them part of the game because everyone was using it and people without them were being left out.

[obZeNx]

Never used threat meters in all my years of WoW. I remember back before they even came out "WAIT FOR 4 SUNDERS BEFORE YOU ATTACK!"

 

Kids just need to learn "Oh I crit 5 times in a row, maybe I should auto for a few seconds"

[Felioats]

Making the game easier doesn't make it better.

 

For generations, gamers have defeated group content without threat meters. They even managed to recruit and manage their guilds without DPS meters, healing meters or any meters of any kind.

 

If you put your mind to it, I'm sure you can do it, too.

[RealAeiouy]

If the mob attacks you, you have threat.

[ShotByBothSides]

Yea, how does dps know he is about to overaggro without some indication? It used to be that way because we had KTM/Omen...

 

I would have though the indication that you were getting some aggro and hit a little would be indication enough to give you a clue that the mob has taken a fancy to you

 

I really can't understand all the need for these tools/crutches. In other MMOs I have played, the players find out how to deal with major encounters by expereince and using what the game provides. It seems to me that some are not prepared to work it out for themsleves. I am sure I wiill get the usual slew of predicable replies, but hey ho

Edited January 20, 2012 by ShotByBothSides

[Saurakk]

Its amazing how any one survived in EQ1 raids with all the "I NEED" hand holding MODS.

[Norbix]

I don't understand why every is getting so defensive over the topic. I used to raid hardcore in the top 50 world level for the other game and I personally wouldn't mind some kind of threat indicator. For me it isn't a crutch, because I've done all the content just fine already. It's just a nice thing to have. I'm confident that the addition of some kind of threat indicator would have nothing but positive effects for all players of the game. Threat indicators don't do work for players like macros or certain types of addons, they're just a nice visual aid.

 

What's also strange is that it seems to me that the elite aren't the ones who are so against something like this. You'd think think that elite players are the ones who enjoy playing 'without crutches'. However, I have to assume that the non-elite are so passive-aggressive because they're worried about certain consequences.