PvP 'DPS' Immortal Build 32/7/2

[CapuchinSeven]

Pretty much what I run as a Guardian often. I love the "defence is crap for PVP" comments I get.

[Dracosz]

It'll still be critting for more in rage spec, without the need for sundering.

 

Again, it's not about critting harder or more often than your opponent. It's critting while your opponent is unable to react and providing your allies more relief than just guard via superior peels and control.

[Schwarzwald]

I find dps trees other than rage pretty useless at PVP in the next patch tbh, with the change to warzones, you'll be getting %25 huttball and %75 other wzs on Empire side.

 

Attacking on voidstar, alderaan, novare coast on ranked wzs will be favoring dps heavy teams and rage jugg will be seriously shining (eventho a ranked wz team probably won't be able to support more than 2 since the lack of survival). With the change to enrage, your first smash and scream will be getting the 4pc set bonus buff then you'll be able to continue to sustain your burst using choke+crush/ravage/obliterate/slashes.

 

Burst from several warriors and a couple of ranged dps on a healer just won't be controllable eventho the guy has guard and some of the dps is taunted or even with a second healer since that guy will be getting all the ccs there is. With he removal of a healer from combat on start, controlling the fight will be meaningless. With the changes to dots interrupting self-heal channel, dps will just be on full hp when the enemy team respawns and it'll be a rinse&repeat situation after you get the upper hand on any wz from the start.

 

Even on a huttball ranked encounter, rage dps will be extremely effective with its burst and the best mobility of all the melee specs in the game thanks to obliterate. No proper downtime even on huttball unless you got hit by a bad combination of ccs which goes for all classes.

 

Eventho devs might wanna have longer PVP fights on wzs, when the next patch hits, ranked wzs will all be about properly coordinated burst dps, while efficiently used ccs meanwhile; not healing, not tanking or controlling the enemy team. This game might have more CCs than WoW but the burst damage is still incredible when coordinated/communicated properly even on the most geared/skilled players. Rise of the dps is near with the next patch, as it should be.

 

 

 

I have to disagree with you completely on those points on voidstar.

 

While heavy DPS is one route to go, another route is to go heavy healer tank, which is pretty much a direct counter to any heavy DPS group because the heavy DPS group will eventually dwindle and fall to a team comp that simply never dies.

 

Smash and dps isn't going to do **** with 3+ healers and guards everywhere.

 

And let me repeat the most important part about having 2 extra stuns on a tank means.

 

YOU ARE REMOVING A PERSON FROM THE FIGHT WHILE STILL GUARDING AND PROTECTING THE REST OF THE TEAM.

 

 

Rage jugs are super easy to kill, and if I make it my job, I can make it a big pain in his *** to get off a smash that will actually impact the game.

 

Removing a person from the game is exactly how it sounds, you are either reducing the entire enemy team's healing output or damage output. Within that time you can execute an enemy player quickly or save a teammate from getting focused.

 

You want to know how you beat a DPS team on voidstar? Spread out so multiple people don't get hit by smash. Bam. you win.

 

Now I'm not trying to say that this control role is the end all be all of juggernauts, its just that too many people think that there is this strict rigid ways that juggernauts should play without even testing other possibilities. If my playstyle sucked, I wouldn't be playing it and I certainly wouldn't be doing as well as I do in warzones with it.

 

Also, Shien Form Ravage will be the hardest hitting single target ability in 1.2 for jugs. Smash won't come close in terms of consistant output.

 

Decent players will be waiting for unstoppable's effect to end before knockback/cc'ing anyway (it has a really recognizable animation), one of the reasons I don't like unstoppable.

 

And decent players will also use the effects of Unstoppable as an escape to survive burst/dots or a way to free walk into a goal. Its not just the anti immobilization while DPSing.

 

you have no way to getting back to your target

 

'hold on guys, I just knocked this juggernaut into the pit, let me stand on the edge so I am in line of sight for him to jump back up.'

 

Also, whats all that crap about unstoppable vs obliterate. You think that one short distance ability is going to help you charge up and win? LOL. I like how you always make these assumptions that the Jug in these situations is the 'decent player' and everyone else around him is herp-derp stupid. Now for me, this is normally the case, but in top rated teams, this won't be the case at all. So if you are going to rely on idiots on top rated teams to stand on an edge to allow you to obliterate back up to them, then you are dreaming.

 

without the need for sundering.

 

I read this as "with out the need to help my group's DPS beacuse I only want MY numbers to contribute".

 

If you are runnign with a sniper or a marauder, it should be your job to stack sunders as fast as possible for them so that they can do THEIR optimal DPS, which surpasses that of Jugs.

 

With the help of your team mates, if that target is a medium or light armor user (which it'll probably be) that target won't survive.

 

Guard + AoE Taunt + Healers will counter this hands down.

Edited April 21, 2012 by LexiCazam
Inappropriate content/old post

[Brightmist]

Let's just wait and see how coordinated dps teams will be ****** tank and healer heavy setups next patch. If you can't pull enough dps on the enemy team to apply any pressure, you're not gonna win anything. That's the way it is, you can only stun so much that a guy gets full resolve and starts ****** you back, whereas with a lower number of overall ccs, you can just use them when you're coordinating a burst. Every other class in the game has enough ccs to fill up everyone's resolve bar, nobody needs extra stuns from a ****** hitting tank hybrid juggernaut where assasins can fill the role way better with higher dps/survival and utility.

 

Your ideas are just plain wrong.

[MorgonKara]

Did i respond to this thread already? Anyways I play a Juggernaut too and it's great fun. Immortal with Vindicator for PvP and War leader for PvE.

[Schwarzwald]

Let's just wait and see how coordinated dps teams will be ****** tank and healer heavy setups next patch. If you can't pull enough dps on the enemy team to apply any pressure, you're not gonna win anything. That's the way it is, you can only stun so much that a guy gets full resolve and starts ****** you back, whereas with a lower number of overall ccs, you can just use them when you're coordinating a burst. Every other class in the game has enough ccs to fill up everyone's resolve bar, nobody needs extra stuns from a ****** hitting tank hybrid juggernaut where assasins can fill the role way better with higher dps/survival and utility.

 

Your ideas are just plain wrong.

 

Sounds like your mad

[Veeius]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101crhfzrbkuRZhMRZM.1

 

Absolutely love everything about immortal. Any other spec i feel like a gimped marauder trying to be something I'm not. I get more satisfaction making pvp difficult for others, it's almost like playing as the infected team on l4d non-stop.

 

I'm always taunting, slowing, stunning, guarding, and pushing someone. Leave dps to the classes that are designed for it.

 

This is why I keep saying I don't think immortal is viable in pvp. You are wasting a dps slot.

 

You can not heal, you can not kill, you can only annoy people. If 2 guys want to kill your healer, your healer + you = your healer dies. On the other hand, using the one trick pony build, if 2 guys are clustered on your healer, BOTH of them will die pretty fast.

 

You have almost ALL the weaknesses of a rage or veng spec warrior, and provide NOTHING to help your healer they can't AND alot of the stuff you have to protect yourself does very very very little against, say, a grav spamming trooper, or a sorc, or a smug.

 

What jugg is good at is mitigating a LOT of kinetic damage, but that's it.

 

Lastly, crushing blow hits hard, absolutely. It also has the longest cd of any offensive move we have, and there are no talents to decrease that cd. Even when they nerf the hell out of smash in 1.2, it'll STILL be better than crushing blow by far.

 

edited to add:

I say all of this with the utmost respect to ALL juggernauts. I'm not trying to flame, I'm sorry if I come off that way. I am simply concerned because I don't see how immortal juggs are viable in pvp.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Veeius

[Veeius]

 

While heavy DPS is one route to go, another route is to go heavy healer tank, which is pretty much a direct counter to any heavy DPS group because the heavy DPS group will eventually dwindle and fall to a team comp that simply never dies..

 

See you keep saying that, and I really have to wonder why you think that a tank is much more survivable in a furball fight than anyone else. I'm not even positive a mara would have trouble taking down an immortal jug, but I know a shadow would be like "what do you mean he mitigates better? lol"

[Schwarzwald]

See you keep saying that, and I really have to wonder why you think that a tank is much more survivable in a furball fight than anyone else. I'm not even positive a mara would have trouble taking down an immortal jug, but I know a shadow would be like "what do you mean he mitigates better? lol"

 

If you are an immortal jug and are losing to marauders in 1v1 fights then you are doing something severely, severely wrong.

 

Majority of marauder damage is white, primary mitigation for rage jug is white. Any time a Marauder uses a cooldown, which is easily visible, is when you stun, effectively negating their attempts.

 

Maybe Rage marauders in 1.2 will be a bit more tricky than annihilation specced Marauders for an Immortal Juggernaut, but you still always have to consider the context of play.

 

If you dedicate yourself to a group, protection role, then there is no reason why you shouldn't be less then 200k protection. Under the right conditions with a good healer I've soaked up to 500k protection in one game, and I think that value alone is enough to counter all the DPS output of 1-2 players.

 

So people who keep saying that DPS WINZ all the time makes me think that their server lacks any sort of good PvP tank. There are several on my server that can do 300k protection on an average basis. Its called coordination. Have none of you honestly never experienced a game where your whole team does obscene amounts of damage, yet you only have 10 kills? I've had a few games against tank/healer combos where I would pull 500k+ damage as rage but only get 14 kills because guard+taunt+healers just perpetually keeps teams alive. All the other players on the enemy team would have far less damage done, yet twice as many kills. In those games me and our other top DPS can be focusing down an enemy, but it would still nearly take an entire minute of pure DPS just to kill one guy.

 

Do healers and tanks even exist on your server?

[Schwarzwald]

You can not heal, you can not kill, you can only annoy people.

 

in 1.2 you will have 3 self heals. Warzone heal, That new ability which I am too lazy to remember its name and endure pain. I consider endure pain a heal because it does save your *** in many situations specifically because of the health gained.

 

 

If 2 guys want to kill your healer, your healer + you = your healer dies.

 

Sounds like you are having a hard time knowing when to turn your guard on and off. If you let yourself die from guard damage, without it being intentional, then you are playing a bad protection warrior, simple as that. If they are focusing a healer, the healer is most likely healing himself in that situation and your health will drop dramatically while the healers will remain probably above 75% on average. Once your health dips into the 40% range is when you should take a guard off, attempt to CC, self heal and reassess if you need to put the guard back on.

 

Proper control of guards can wreck focused DPS attempts and cause disarray in undiscinplined players.

 

 

 

On the other hand, using the one trick pony build, if 2 guys are clustered on your heale

r, BOTH of them will die pretty fast.

 

 

assuming both players are dumb enough to allow a rage jug to hit them both.

 

 

You have almost ALL the weaknesses of a rage or veng spec warrior

 

defensive cooldowns, stuns and really good rage generation while in soresu; are all things that those specs don't have.

 

 

,

a grav spamming trooper

 

if you die to this you are the worst sort of pvper, l2interrupt/LoS

 

 

or a sorc,

 

easiest to kill class for a jug, no matter what spec you or they are, l2stun and interrupt

 

or a smug.

 

Only the initial burst should give you a problem, once their first burst is done you can kill a scoundrel from 100% to 0% as immortal all within the duration of your stuns. He will probably be running away at 10% health by the time your stuns go away.

 

What jugg is good at is mitigating a LOT of kinetic damage, but that's it.

 

Jugs have the most mobility of any tanking class, if you are just sitting there getting **** on, then you are playing the class wrong. Use your charges, force push -> charge and intercede to keep yourself alive. Charge doesn't only have to be used to engage targets.

 

Also, your stuns interrupt. Your aoe incapacitate interrupts. Your charge interrupts. Your interrupt interrupts. That sounds like damage prevented to those pesky non kinetic sources.

 

Also, sonic barrier

 

 

Lastly, crushing blow hits hard, absolutely. It also has the longest cd of any offensive move we have, and there are no talents to decrease that cd. Even when they nerf the hell out of smash in 1.2, it'll STILL be better than crushing blow by far.

 

Its probably one of the most rage efficient abilities in the game. Sundering Assault + Crushing blow will also get you 5 stacks of sunder instantly, making your subsequent Ravage much more powerful. Also maintaining those sunder on the target is much easier because your primary damaging ability refreshes them.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Schwarzwald

[dirtyv]

Schwarz do you have all BM gear or do you mix in Rakata?...

 

Reason I ask is Im full vindicator champ pieces, dps focus, holo relic, I do have warlead implants but weaponmaster other pieces and my str is around 1330. I checked out the BM gear and dont see how Im gonna pull another 150-180 str out of it?

 

 

Am I missing something or does it come out to around 1500 when full BM vindicator/weaponmaster geared out?

 

Sry if you posted that, I think Ive read every page on this thread by now but may have missed it.

Edited April 2, 2012 by dirtyv

[Dracosz]

Schwarz do you have all BM gear or do you mix in Rakata?...

 

Reason I ask is Im full vindicator champ pieces, dps focus, holo relic, I do have warlead implants but weaponmaster other pieces and my str is around 1330. I checked out the BM gear and dont see how Im gonna pull another 150-180 str out of it?

 

 

Am I missing something or does it come out to around 1500 when full BM vindicator/weaponmaster geared out?

 

Sry if you posted that, I think Ive read every page on this thread by now but may have missed it.

 

 

Do you use a rakata/exotech stim?

[dirtyv]

Do you use a rakata/exotech stim?

 

 

Ahhh no I forgot I dont have biochem on this guy.... I have artifacepalm... was prob gonna get it though just wanted to see what new artifice stuff comes out in 1.2 before dropping it.

Edited April 2, 2012 by dirtyv

[Dracosz]

I'm still preferential to biochem because I'll be able to buy crit-crafted gear in the patch =P

[dirtyv]

I'm still preferential to biochem because I'll be able to buy crit-crafted gear in the patch =P

 

Yea I got my white crystal already so no need for anymore crystals... prob not any real reason not to go get it now... my mouth is watering thinking about the stim boost

[Schwarzwald]

Ahhh no I forgot I dont have biochem on this guy.... I have artifacepalm... was prob gonna get it though just wanted to see what new artifice stuff comes out in 1.2 before dropping it.

 

I got 400/400 first time through as artifice, immediately made my relics, then felt ripped off that I couldn't make anything better then lvl 49 mods, went biochem and never looked back.

[dirtyv]

I got 400/400 first time through as artifice, immediately made my relics, then felt ripped off that I couldn't make anything better then lvl 49 mods, went biochem and never looked back.

 

 

Yea this was the first guy I made so of course I was lured into the whole "I can make my own LS crystals" thing. I got hustled lol. Didnt make that mistake on my sage.

 

Anywho dropped it last night and Im about 275 biochem... cant wait to get the stim boost!

[LordbishopX]

So whats the typical damage one can generate in this spec with dps gear?

[Dracosz]

So whats the typical damage one can generate in this spec with dps gear?

 

Typical? Against a geared team I usually hit the 300k marker by the end of the game if it's a huttball/short alderaans (unless they're ALL bounty hunters >_>). In longer VS/Alderaans it ranges anywhere from 300k to 430k (my personal highest).

 

Again, don't think of the damage as the sole reason to go this spec. You can also provide more effective defensive utility than another other DPS spec in the game , my guard usually ranges from 50k to as high as 250k (my personal highest when playing as a DPS immortal)

[Schwarzwald]

Technically, and while this is a broad statement, with lots of other outside factors that determine this, like how many healers/ranged the other team has, but generally speaking...

 

In this build your damage doesn't necessarily reflect how well you are playing, in fact, it would be considered better if you were having a lower damage output then a really high one, if you take into account that you are properly managing your stuns and other control. If you can control a target and kill them quickly with assistance, then you are going to have less overall damage done because they won't be getting healed and such.

 

Scoreboard damage isn't really a good metric to measure your effectiveness. Maybe some ratio between damage done and kills gotten might be a better way to measure, but even then there are many outside factors.

 

Conversely, Rage operates differently, in that the 'utility' of that spec is to either force healers to heal someone really hard or to spread out damage against the whole enemy team with your aoe bursts. So your effectiveness in Rage is much more heavily emphasized on damage done. The only time this doesn't hold true is if your enemies are so poorly geared that you are killing them too quickly.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Schwarzwald

[thorizdin]

Scoreboard damage isn't really a good metric to measure your effectiveness. Maybe some ratio between damage done and kills gotten might be a better way to measure, but even then there are many outside factors.

 

This is true but people love to see the big damage number on the scoreboard. For many/most players e-peen > logic

[LordbishopX]

Typical? Against a geared team I usually hit the 300k marker by the end of the game if it's a huttball/short alderaans (unless they're ALL bounty hunters >_>). In longer VS/Alderaans it ranges anywhere from 300k to 430k (my personal highest).

 

Again, don't think of the damage as the sole reason to go this spec. You can also provide more effective defensive utility than another other DPS spec in the game , my guard usually ranges from 50k to as high as 250k (my personal highest when playing as a DPS immortal)

 

Cool thanks just comparing dps geared tank specs ppl seem to cry so much about.

Edited April 4, 2012 by LordbishopX

[Schwarzwald]

Okay finally enough people on test realms to pvp and all I gotta say is that 16/23/2 is pretty boss

 

just did a 400k voidstar and it all was single target.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Schwarzwald

[Sogar]

Okay finally enough people on test realms to pvp and all I gotta say is that 16/23/2 is pretty boss

 

just did a 400k voidstar and it all was single target.

 

I'm actually planning to switch to 18/23/0 after 1.2 so this is good news. My question is, since you deal mainly single target damage are those two points in decimate (or ravager or malice I guess) really better than sonic barrier?

I know the barrier is not much but it's still a good sustain mitigation for PvP ... or you could get deafening defense I guess (but I still prefer the barrier for mitigation).

[Dooger]

A spec of less effective dps often increases damage totals.

Effective dps is about doing the least damage to kill the other team.

 

Most jug/guardian builds are pretty effective in an assist train, this build provides more control to aid in the over all efficiency in killing.

 

Bioware seems to be pushing us to middle tree, I gotta say a few second of cc relief is pretty nice. I really wish they would use their system from warhammer, and dump the resolve bar.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Dooger