tmpearson Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) What are you talking about? It took them less than a day to fix the Ilum problem. What other major issue is there? The Dev Tracker is full of them talking about future features, changes to certain classes, etc. The forum cried for a fix to certain companions not giving dialogue, they fixed it. People wanted AA, they gave it asap. They even released a video yesterday. 4x AA? They are throwing us scraps off the table like a dog. Edited January 20, 2012 by tmpearson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsunz Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 They are on vacation....where do you think they are? at work? LMAO. What do you do when you earn alot of money??? YOU GO SPEND IT!!! Hello..McFly!!!! They earned it...all the hard work they put into this game ,..they earned a vacation. I hope they all go to Tahiti or wherever they wanna go and have a good time.....I'm enjoying this masterpiece of an mmo...thank you Bioware!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teatimeted Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 What (too) many people forget is that developers are people. They have a job to do and if Bioware is smart, they've banned (or strongly discouraged) their developers from even reading the forum because of the effect it has on morale. I end up handling a handful of support requests from particularly vocal/litigious clients a week, and let me tell you, the worst thing they can do is to insult me in their support request. I'll do my job, but nothing more. If they show no respect for me, I'm absolutely not going to go out of my way to help them. I recognize that it may be the words of one guy from a company of dozens of people, but that's the way life works. Bioware developers are likely similar, and even if the jerks are a minority, they poison the interactions that all of the mature people on the forum attempt to have with the developers. The forum is flooded with insults and selfish demands and that anyone who tries to oppose them --even in the name of logical discussion-- is branded as an idiot and shouted down. Why would any manager want their employees exposed to that? The problem seems to be that the minority of jerks has been allowed to pigeonhole the entire population into two perceived (but incorrect) categories: smart people who hate the game and think that Bioware (and all the developers) are idiots who are laughing while stealing their money and mindless sycophants who work for Bioware and oppose any game improvements. Just like far too many other places in the world, only extreme views are listened to, and the extremists attack anyone who doesn't support them as opposing extremists (perhaps because they lack the emotional maturity to see any other option). I've tried to fight this polarizing trend, but you can't fight it with logic, because its caused by the desire to discard logic. It's not based in reason, but emotion, and the desire to feel important and powerful. People are convinced that hating something or criticizing it will display how smart/cultured/elite/attractive they are, and that being more extreme must mean that they are even better than everyone else who hates it. It's a cancer on a community, and it's the fault of everyone else (in the world, essentially) for not beating down the idiot minority for their anti-social behavior. Wow... brilliant post. Couldn't agree more. Especially the final paragraph. Bullseye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyInternets Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'd agree with this statement. Plus if a dev responds to a issue with a statement... that statement is referenceable and quotable material. With the volitile nature of how these forums have bloomed, I can see how people would start raging about said issue not being fixed and quoting a dev... thus making the situation even worse. Additionally, like i've stated in other posts... it's hard to fix issues related to bugs when essential information is left out. And let's be honest here, alot of people posting about bugs on this forum do leave out alot of details that can make bug fixing quicker. Just saying" This is broken!" without giving the Who , What, Where, When is essentially lazy and nearly useless. God forbid people be held accountable for claims they make in a public forum. What planet are you from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmpearson Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 the majority of posters here don't deserve interaction with a developer... /rofl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraBob_Fl Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 1) The GUI does not offer the expected standard functionality. My personal problems: - The group finder tool allows to read only 2 words of the grouping comment. - I feel like half of my play time is about running with a transparent map on my screen. 2) I am not a MMO veteran, but could you cite games where the classic faction mechanic worked fine and without major critics ? I've never had a problem with the UI, and I rarely have to keep my map open. I don't find it hard to memorize a route with one or two turns. I've never even tried to use the group finder tool, since I just use general chat, so I can't speak to that. 2. WoW would be the prime example. Everything has major critics, but factions are basically a standard MMO feature that's well received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraBob_Fl Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 God forbid people be held accountable for claims they make in a public forum. What planet are you from? It's the same issue as has appeared in other games. People take general statements of intent as ironclad promises, and go ballistic when devs change their minds. That leads to reps shutting up until they're absolutely sure about what they're going to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 If I ever made a game, one thing I'd ensure we didn't have is general forums. We'd have specific forums for specific topics, but no general forum, as this place is not worth the code it took to create it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barwnKesteven Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The bottom line is that the Faction Imbalance is caused by the decisions of players. There's not much that they can do. That's letting the developer off the hook. Its their job to design a system that takes customer preference into account and to find a way to force balance if they're going to have a faction system. It was pretty clear early on that Empire was more popular so, as much as I might not like it as an Empire player, compensating rewards should've been added to the Republic side or a forced population balance should've been added. As for communication, yes, there are communications but they sometimes are more on the "we're looking into it" side. Other times, it feels as if they are responding but that they have a tin ear. They do communicate, but sometimes it appears to me more like I'm am being talked "at" instead of "to". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumajin Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 But if Mr. Ohlen says they're dedicated to the community, it must be true! Chris Cao said the same thing in the launch month of DCUO. Thank god SOE canned his ***. About time for Bioware/EA to get a new guy, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 God forbid people be held accountable for claims they make in a public forum. What planet are you from? Here's the problem though. A dev says "We might get this thing working for patch X.X" Then the community mind translates that into "OMG THEY PROMISED THIS FEATURE IN PATCH X.X" Developer interaction would be fine if most of the forum users didn't breathe from their mouth. But, since most forum goers seem to be sub-100s, developer interaction just leads to rage. Better to not tell the ape-people anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangelist Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 A major problem they have yet to even talk about: Population Faction Balance. And just how do suppose they correct this imbalance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunwindIon Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Developer interaction would be fine if most of the forum users didn't breathe from their mouth. what does my deviated septum have to do with anything I post? Edited January 20, 2012 by SunwindIon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraBob_Fl Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 That's letting the developer off the hook. Its their job to design a system that takes customer preference into account and to find a way to force balance if they're going to have a faction system. It was pretty clear early on that Empire was more popular so, as much as I might not like it as an Empire player, compensating rewards should've been added to the Republic side or a forced population balance should've been added. I couldn't disagree more. I'm not averse to some gentle nudging towards faction balance, but I don't think that player choice should ever be sacrificed to force faction balance. Playing what you want to play is much more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigaus Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Not everything works that way. When you're in a low paid fast food job that's what your life is like, subject to the whims of irrational customers. When you're a professional with a valuable skill set, life gets much better. QFT You don't walk in and tell a lawyer how to do his job and go on an irrational tirade.. they will just move on to the next client. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genpion Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I've never had a problem with the UI, and I rarely have to keep my map open. I don't find it hard to memorize a route with one or two turns. I've never even tried to use the group finder tool, since I just use general chat, so I can't speak to that. 2. WoW would be the prime example. Everything has major critics, but factions are basically a standard MMO feature that's well received. Different playstyle, different critics I guess. Thanks for answering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 what does my deviated septum have to do with anything I post? Never heard the term mouthbreather before? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mouthbreather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Never heard the term mouthbreather before? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mouthbreather I'm betting she was being sarcastic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'm betting she was being sarcastic... You never know, I've had to explain the term often enough. Often to people who breathe from their mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monimoni Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 What are you talking about? It took them less than a day to fix the Ilum problem. What other major issue is there? The Dev Tracker is full of them talking about future features, changes to certain classes, etc. The forum cried for a fix to certain companions not giving dialogue, they fixed it. People wanted AA, they gave it asap. They even released a video yesterday. 1)Ability delay. 2)They broke the cooldown reminders on hotkeys with patch 1.1; you can no longer tell exactly when an ability is off cooldown 3)Tank PVP mitigation doesn't work as intended. See the thread in the tanking forums. 4)Getting two-shot by Operatives/Scoundrels in PVP I haven't logged in in 3 days, and have no desire to do so until ALL of the above are fixed. Then there's thousands of minor issues, but those don't matter as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtmach Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 They want to resolve everything they can. When they say they're "looking into the issue", I believe them. The problem is, it takes some time - like a few days for example. Within that time frame 8923892 threads about that 1 issue pop up, making it look like the Bioware isn't listening considering the ratio of whining vs. answers. They don't want to make false promises hence they won't respond further after "we're looking into it" until they find the solution. They are answering, it's just that it takes longer than 10 sec to resolve an issue and in that time 3 more threads pop up about that issue, hence they have to delete some threads when people are just whining about the same issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ujest Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 A major problem they have yet to even talk about: Population Faction Balance. So you want BW to tell you what class and Faction you can play? They ain't tell me what Class or Faction I'll play not on my $15. Now a players choice of Class or Faction is now a game breaking bug... and is BW's fault :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barwnKesteven Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I don't expect some of you scrubs to understand this but: Even criticism that isn't well-made rhetorically and that doesn't end with a suggestion how to improve is still criticism. Precisely because nobody has yet come up with a solution makes the issue important. Demanding nothing but constructive criticism is a cheap way of saying "I (or we, i.e. the BDF) decide whether or not your points are valid and if we don't like them they aren't constructive enough so we will feel entitled to poop all over your post." Absolutely right. In the business I'm in, we get comments that are barely more than "your food sucks!" or "your customer service agents blow!" and don't contain much else in the way of helpful feedback. Can we do anything specific with a single response like that? No. However, over a course of hours or days as inputs increase, we see trends and if we get a large number of complaints that our physical product sucks (without suggesting that perhaps we switch to this fabric or more frequent cleaning might help), we go looking for more information on physical product. We check to see if the number of complaints is unreasonable and can be linked to any customer behavior changes. If we find it warrants action, we look more thoroughly through the feedback we have. We'll communicate with customers and ask for input on the physical product to see what scores well or not. This information gets synthesized and funneled to the division in charge of physical product to determine what changes can be implemented. So even something as useless sounding as "your physical product sucks" can actually be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuka Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Except they didn't fix it... Ilum is still a mess. Look at the PvP forum for an example of why. And they've been incredibly slow to acknowledge all but the most PR friendly of problems. A major problem they have yet to even talk about: Population Faction Balance. Heck, to the point that keep the language neutral in their posts, as if it weren't a problem at all. Faction balance being skewed towards Empire isn't BioWare's fault nor their problem. Players need to rally their Republic friends to combat and encourage people to join the Republic. I play both. The most BioWare can do is say "No more Empire character creation for the time being." other than that that's pretty much it but even that is harsh because what if you roll for example a Sith Juggernaut and don't really like it? It's penalizing an player for the side he chose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Rock_ Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Please. Would you rather they spend time working on fixes or responding to every hyperbolic wall of text someone regurgitates on these boards? I mean, does GZ have to make a post every time someone hits the keyboard with their face and "BAAAWWWW THERE'S NO COMBAT LOG THIS GAME IS FAILZORZ!" comes out? Yes they need to speak to the community, just look at the PTS forums they tried warning them 2weeks in advance about the 1.1 patch but the devs did not listen nor interacted with the testers to find out why they all predicted the ilum was goin to fail hard and other bugs with the patch. I resub for 1 more month to give them the benefit of doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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