ndruo Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Because it seems to me the only thing you dislike about hardcore players asking for better stuff is the fact that they're asking for better stuff? And how it "doesn't really matter!" I mean, it's not as if casual players will really notice the majority of the changes that hardcore players are looking for. It's also not unreasonable to say that the changes that they want are for the overall betterment of the game - "Ilum is really messed up!" "Slicing is way too easy money!" "These animations are not responsive!" "Crafting needs to be better!" "Your class mirroring is not really mirroring!" How, I might ask, would these harm the casual player? If these seem like loaded examples, I'd like to see someone present a case in which a request that's common with hardcore players harms the casual base? (the animations problem is one thing that I actually really care about. My control/utility abilities don't go off until like, forever. I can really feel it in PVP.) Edited January 20, 2012 by ndruo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IIII-IIII-IIII Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 *grabs popcorn* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthVenizen Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 *grabs popcorn* gimmie some! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thuggy Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 *grabs popcorn* have any caramel coated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTijger Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Dont have any problem with them as long as they are reasonable and able to argue their case on merit and not just calling others derogatory names. What I do not want is the game to give the hardcore what they want if it comes at the expense of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndruo Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) What I do not want is the game to give the hardcore what they want if it comes at the expense of others. See that's where I'm confused. I am looking for a situation/request in which giving the hardcore what they want has actually taken away from the casual experience? I'm not talking about in SWTOR - the lifetime of the game is far too short for any sort of catering to have actually gone on. The idea of "catering to hardcore players" seems to be completely reviled - I was wondering as to why? How is catering to hardcore players also not catering to casual players? Edited January 20, 2012 by ndruo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltuvion Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Dont have any problem with them as long as they are reasonable and able to argue their case on merit and not just calling others derogatory names. What I do not want is the game to give the hardcore what they want if it comes at the expense of others. Curious thing is, the hardcore-segment of the playerbase is generally far, far, far more coherent, reasonable and sensible in their line of argumentation, as well as in their demands, than the casuals. Edited January 20, 2012 by Maltuvion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DashFiss Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I don't have anything against hardcores, except I'm worried about their health and future, naturally. Lol jk, but I do mind elitists, they're the smuggest biggest idiots you can ever find. Sad part is they have so little to show for, they'll take whatever merits they can get, even if it's just a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndruo Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 What I don't like about hardcore players. (not everyone but the kind I hate) eg those that play all day everyday and are sponging ****** living on a benefit paid for by the tax payer so gaming on my taxes and have an elititst attitude that they are owed something by the developer, god it annoys me the sense of self entitlement society has bred. IMO they should be culled not just from MMO's but RL also. I don't know how true this is... this might just be your image of a basement-dwelling gamer nerd. Still, nowhere do you mention anything about how the changes they ask for harm the casual gameplay experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodaOfYoda Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Probably jealousy. Everyone not in the end-game probably wishes they were experiencing that end-game content. Those at end-game are looking for the next best thing. Loot, especially if it looks halfway decent is another motivator (after stats). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thuggy Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The idea of "catering to hardcore players" seems to be completely reviled - I was wondering as to why? How is catering to hardcore players also not catering to casual players? It depends on what you define as "Hardcore." a Hardcore pvper has different demands than a hardcore raider, and both will demand elements contrarian to a hardcore roleplayer/sandbox player Catering to hardcore demographics exclusively will often alienate the casual audience, simply because content will demand greater effort, time, or skill than they are willing/able to invest. However, many times there are issues that are universal, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowswillm Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Curious thing is, the hardcore-segment of the playerbase is generally far, far, far more coherent, reasonable and sensible in their line of argumentation, as well as in their demands, than the casuals. This is also subjective to what people see as "casual" and "hardcore" I can have very different views on what defines a "hardcore" player vs a "casual" then you. Saying those terms is a very broad generalization of the population due to every ones views being different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amnie Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I'm still pretty set that not a single person here plays this game 'hardcore' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deamor Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The true "Hardcore" players are the ones aiming for the world first kills and stuff. They do not care about what "Casuals" have and get in these games. They know they are on top of that and they aim for the very end as fast as possible. These people kill the bosses even before any "Boss Kill" websites are updated. Heck, they are the ones giving others the tactics. Then we have these people who THINK themselves as "Hardcore". They moan and whine on the forums about "Casuals" destroying the game, about free epics and stuff. These players are NOT the real "Hardcore" players. They are just crybabies who think too much of themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimbotcfg Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Curious thing is, the hardcore-segment of the playerbase is generally far, far, far more coherent, reasonable and sensible in their line of argumentation, as well as in their demands, than the casuals. This. Very much so. The 'hardcore' players tend to have pretty reasonable requests or suggestions, then get attacked with "Its fine how it is and you are <insert insult of choice here> if you disagree/want this changed". What I don't like about hardcore players. (not everyone but the kind I hate) eg those that play all day everyday and are sponging ****** living on a benefit paid for by the tax payer so gaming on my taxes and have an elititst attitude that they are owed something by the developer, god it annoys me the sense of self entitlement society has bred. IMO they should be culled not just from MMO's but RL also. You from Middlesbrough by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laslaya Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Curious thing is, the hardcore-segment of the playerbase is generally far, far, far more coherent, reasonable and sensible in their line of argumentation, as well as in their demands, than the casuals. When scrub, QQ more, L2P, welfare, are their key arguments the vast majority of times, I'd hardly say what your saying is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conundrum-NSA Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Curious thing is, the hardcore-segment of the playerbase is generally far, far, far more coherent, reasonable and sensible in their line of argumentation, as well as in their demands, than the casuals. Well that's pretty easy when you normal demand is...."WE WANT MORE RAIDS!!1111" followed by "ANYONE WHO PLAYS LESS THAN 26 HOURS A DAY SHOULD NOT HAVE GEAR EVEN CLOSE TO ME!!!!1111" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguine-sun Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Harcore vs Progressive Prima donna vs Team player Exclusionism vs Inclusivism Pejorative vs Ameliorative Bad vs Good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thuggy Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Harcore vs Progressive Prima donna vs Team player Exclusionism vs Inclusivism Pejorative vs Ameliorative Bad vs Good Pie vs Cake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowswillm Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The true "Hardcore" players are the ones aiming for the world first kills and stuff. They do not care about what "Casuals" have and get in these games. They know they are on top of that and they aim for the very end as fast as possible. These people kill the bosses even before any "Boss Kill" websites are updated. Heck, they are the ones giving others the tactics. Then we have these people who THINK themselves as "Hardcore". They moan and whine on the forums about "Casuals" destroying the game, about free epics and stuff. These players are NOT the real "Hardcore" players. They are just crybabies who think too much of themselves. Ah ok, I would classify myself as a retired Hardcore player then who's like Rocky. I used to be "Hardcore" in Vanilla WoW and TBC then once WoFR(Wrath of the Lich King) came out I stopped caring about world/server firsts. I can come out of retirement when ever I want just choose not to. By your definition any way :-). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExBrillig Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Since you actually seem to be sincere in asking the question, here are three serious problems with 'hardcore' players and their requests: 1. Some of the things they want are bad for the game as a whole. Examples: add-ons and macros. There are many threads hashing this out, so let's not do it again here. 2. Development is zero-sum. If Bioware is working on A, that means less resources for B. It's a proven fact that most gamers are not, for example, progression raiders. Especially in a game's first month, where most players are nowhere near the level cap, hardcore players agitating for fixes and expansions to level cap content are actively working against what the game really needs to succeed. 3. Attitude. I can find a dozen posts without any trouble where self proclaimed 'hardcore' players are proclaiming that theirs is the only correct viewpoint, that this game is garbage, and that anyone who disagrees with them is 'a bad.' Now that's not to say that there's not plenty of other people with attitude problems on the forums. But it's not the casuals - because almost by definition, casuals don't come to the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun-Runner Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) The idea of "catering to hardcore players" seems to be completely reviled - I was wondering as to why? How is catering to hardcore players also not catering to casual players? This, I can answer! "Hardcore" (PvE and PvP) players consume a disproportionate amount of developer resources in regards to their actual population within this genre of games when compared to the actual population of "Casual" players. No one likes being ignored by the people they're paying to pay attention to them. ... There is also the feeling that the "Casual" majority are paying for all the things the "Hardcore" minority gets and that the "Casual" majority will never get to see or experience. This inspires resentment and other negatives. ... "Our" $15 is the same as "their" $15, but "they" get more benefit out of their $15 than "we" do. This strikes most people as being "unfair". Edited January 20, 2012 by Sun-Runner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthVarrak Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I don't care if hardcores ask for improvements to the game, new content, tiers of gear reserved specifically for the most hardmode raids on the planet, etc. What bothers me is when they get that "omg godly" gear they act like the casuals are complete crap and are ruining their playtime. If the casuals arent doing the "crazynightmarehardmode" raids, you more than likely are not playing with them, so how are they ruining playtime? Also, how are the casuals complete crap and should "lulz go back to Hello Kitty Online" just because they don't play 18 hours per day? This is the big kicker for me. Yes, some casuals will ask for the same gear that you earned (I don't, but some casuals do), that doesn't mean that they will get it. If the Devs give into the Hardcores, they can't also give the same stuff to the casuals, otherwise the Hardcore's gear won't be Hardcore anymore, it will be Casual's. It's like if I gave you an apple for getting an A+ in class, but then I gave the exact same apple to another kid because he got a B+. Two kids can't have the same apple. So, the Dev's have to try to appease the Casuals and the Hardcores, but still have the other feel like they are getting what they wanted. So, if in the future the Dev's decide to please the Hardcore's with their "godmode" gear, don't treat the casuals like crap when SOME of them ask for the gear in the forums, they aren't going to get it (just a watered down look-a-like). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 True hardcore players reroll after a character death and only play on pvp servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimbotcfg Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Well that's pretty easy when you normal demand is...."WE WANT MORE RAIDS!!1111" followed by "ANYONE WHO PLAYS LESS THAN 26 HOURS A DAY SHOULD NOT HAVE GEAR EVEN CLOSE TO ME!!!!1111" Thats not what the majority are asking for however. I'm sure its this hysteria that causes the agro. (Also, I'm using 'Hardcore' in the term that the community here does, ie. someone who plays to compete, as opposed to playing cause 'its just a game, enjoy it') Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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