WelbyWars Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Hey OP, check this out http://www.thesecretworld.com/ I'm skeptical, but still interested to see how it turns out. My friend and I are waiting to play that game,..I have no interest in GW2, outside of technical interest. Content scaling,...hmm....sounds good on paper,.. But How can a level 10 be on the same planet as a level 100(example)? Can they help each other? what is that? Sounds like more Instancing to me,...which I never liked,..or at least,..haven't seen done well in a "open world" themepark, this game included. DDO, DCOnline, Vindictus...instances are fine,...it's an instanced game,..I get that, they say it. A Sandbox/Themepark hybrid dream remains just that. /cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waypoc Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 SWG had no levels at the start. It was glorious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orientz Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 My friend and I are waiting to play that game,..I have no interest in GW2, outside of technical interest. Same, I showed it to my friends and they are pumped for it! GW2 looks like it has potential, idk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelbyWars Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 SWG had no levels at the start. It was glorious! stop twisting the knife! MMO's threw the baby out with the bathwater after that game. Developers stopped standing on the shoulders of Giants, and are now content to just wear their pants,....and poop. That said,.. enjoying the game until I don't! peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshalleck Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 As far as I know, Fallen Earth still has no levels. But maybe that changed. It's F2P, and not unworthy of your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezamashii Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Fallout, Oblivion, etc. Many examples of this exist, and it is not the modern panacea you envision. Sure it has its strengths, but it also has its problems too. I wouldn't mind seeing an mmo try it, but it's not a one-size-fits-all ultimate solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waypoc Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 stop twisting the knife! MMO's threw the baby out with the bathwater after that game. Developers stopped standing on the shoulders of Giants, and are now content to just wear their pants,....and poop. That said,.. enjoying the game until I don't! peace I blame it on arrogant ignorance. The devs think they know what we want and then when they realize they were wrong, they are too arrogant to make the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelbyWars Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) As far as I know, Fallen Earth still has no levels. But maybe that changed. It's F2P, and not unworthy of your time. I concur,...I appreciate them trying new stuff. It's a mix of FPS and Tab targetting,...reminds me of NeoCron back in the day,.. It does fall into the sad stereotype of sandbox= PvP as there isn't much to the PvE If that game had a healthy dose of Themepark content, I think it'd be the bees knees. It may of changed since I played though,..but hey,..for Free?? Doesn't hurt to try, eh! Edited January 20, 2012 by WelbyWars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waypoc Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I concur,...I appreciate them trying new stuff. It's a mix of FPS and Tab targetting,...reminds me of NeoCron back in the day,.. It does fall into the sad stereotype of sandbox= PvP as there isn't much to the PvE If that game had a healthy dose of Themepark content, I think it'd be the bees knees. It may of changed since I played though,..but hey,..for Free?? Doesn't hurt to try, eh! I'd still be playing Fallen Earth. I just didn't like the post-apocalyptic world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSwamper Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 A big no thanks from me. I like the idea of getting tougher, I like seeing some fights easy and some tough, I like the sense of progression. With what the OP suggests, I could just keep fighting the same mob spawn over and over and over. Why even go anywhere? When you're playing an MMO, you'll kill hundreds of thousands of mobs in the course of leveling up. If the average fight against even levels takes me, say 15 seconds, I do NOT want every fight taking that long. I want to feel OP'd sometimes, and drop them all in 3 seconds. If I get pwned by a boss, I really, really want to know that I can come back in a few levels and return the favor. I do not want to level a bunch, and then the fight be just as tough. I wouldn't mind a system like City of Heroes, though, where you could set instances to various difficulties; easy, average, hard, very hard, with each offering tougher mobs, more experience and better loot drops. I'd like to see all instances with this option, instead of just at level 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
failr Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Try Mortal Online. Content surely does not level up with you, but progressing your character makes you go to more dangerous areas. No levels there, just skills and attributes over which you have complete freedom to spend them. Why would you suggest alpha Mortal Online, when there is something far better than that - Darkfall. In any case, the idea wouldn't work just like it didn't work in oblivion, due to the fact that you can't account for everything, some tiers of gear will be bigger upgrades than others, and then you ll end up having what Oblivion had - no reason to advance in level because you get weaker compared to mobs as you level up. Plus they already went with storylines, which would interfere with non-linear concept. That said I wouldn't mind a game that could implement that scaling properly, but it would have to be a sandbox mmo. Edited January 20, 2012 by failr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysion Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Over 15 years of MMOs and we still have abilities?! Over 15 years of MMOs and we still have characters? =P So what you are saying OP is that youd like every single mob in TOR to be scaled in the fashon that the world bossess in CoX are? That would make for an interesting game sure, but what would the point of leveling even be then? You could do it by expanding sideways instead of upwards so to speak. Make it so characters get more powerful and fights are balanced around the idea of killing quickly rather than killing at all. So at level 1 it could take you quite some time to do a fight, a single group of enemies would be a challenge and there would be downtime (but it would reward a lot of exp). Then as the levels progress your abilities start doing a higher percent per hit of damage, you get more aoe abilities as well, untill at the end you are rounding up 10+ groups of enemies and killing them all simultaneously with a single super attack. And you know when you attack an enemy in the game and a few more swoop in on jetpacks? That could be something that happens based on your level, so higher level = more reinforcements come swarming in. In the end you take out entire armies with a single hit. If done right id play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelbyWars Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Over 15 years of MMOs and we still have abilities?! Over 15 years of MMOs and we still have characters? =P So what you are saying OP is that youd like every single mob in TOR to be scaled in the fashon that the world bossess in CoX are? That would make for an interesting game sure, but what would the point of leveling even be then? You could do it by expanding sideways instead of upwards so to speak. Make it so characters get more powerful and fights are balanced around the idea of killing quickly rather than killing at all. So at level 1 it could take you quite some time to do a fight, a single group of enemies would be a challenge and there would be downtime (but it would reward a lot of exp). Then as the levels progress your abilities start doing a higher percent per hit of damage, you get more aoe abilities as well, untill at the end you are rounding up 10+ groups of enemies and killing them all simultaneously with a single super attack. And you know when you attack an enemy in the game and a few more swoop in on jetpacks? That could be something that happens based on your level, so higher level = more reinforcements come swarming in. In the end you take out entire armies with a single hit. If done right id play it. /stolen thanks j/k I dunno how it would work in practice but I like thinking like this. /cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfriar Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 The problem is that only game series that lets work in a nongated way is The Elder Scrolls, and that only works because the entire game scales with you. I'd love to see that type of thing in an mmo, but I wouldn't have a clue on how you go about it without devaluing players sunk time. Not any more. Now they use a hybrid system. Some things scale to you. Others remain static and will bite your lowbie head off, like bears, trolls and giants. First time I ran into a giant in Skyrim he hit me so hard I literally went sub-orbital. I laughed my tail off... Go to YouTube and type in "Giant Skyrim." You'll see something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M35w1wFUYtA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfriar Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Exactly. This is how Oblivion worked. In effect, what it does is enhance your freedom to explore as you want, but it does this at the very high cost of very much downplaying your sense of increasing power and progression. It was a pretty unpopular feature in Oblivion to say the least. That's why they changed it in Skyrim. And, of course, there were great community mods fixing that issue for Oblivion. One of which I installed. Really made a difference in my enjoyment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfriar Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Yeap. And thats why GW2 is a PvP game. One you max level there is no PvE to do in GW2. I think the concept of PvE the progression escapes some people. In PvE you NEED some sort of progression, or there is no point in doing it. Edit: Character progression does not HAVE to be done with levels. We could have an MMO that you become more powerful by frequently using your skills on harder and harder enemies. This way gear grind would potentially not be necessary, you would raid in order for the chance to fight harder enemies and increase the power of your skills. That is just one example of how MMOs could change character progression. The point is that you NEED some type of character progression to do PvE, otherwise its pointless. I played GW for years. I never understood why people whined about it. The name I thought should clue you in: GUILD WARS. I mean, how more of hint could you need... Sure, you needed to PvE to get drops and level. But the end game was guild-on-guild conflicts. And that's what we did. It was so fun that our GW guild has kept in touch since we all stopped playing a couple of years ago and we're just waiting to take up with GW2 and play it for what it is -- a PvP game with some PvE add-ons to keep you busy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKfourtyseven Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) I would ld love to see these kind of sandbox elements come back, but after SWG i dont think we will see it for at least another few years. It is entirely possible to have a MMO with no levels, the problem is people like safe options and levels are the safe, easy, option and these companies largely stopped innovating the minute WoW became a behemoth. Personally, levels are a stupid idea in MMOs in my mind. You simply make certain enemies more difficult through mechanics they use and let players do whatever the hell they want. Attempts at dictating fun lead to less fun. Edited January 20, 2012 by AKfourtyseven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharagonIGN Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 You can still have a sense of progress and become more powerful without levels. There are plenty of tabletop games that do it. It'd be nice if the MMO genre gave it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Feel free to play Planetside 2 when it comes out. Go anywhere at level 1. Fight along side level 20s or whatever the cap will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansultares Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Did the developers even explore this awesome concept? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaosinme Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Perhaps a middle road would work really well.. when you hit max level, you can opt to turn on Hard mode or something. Every monster that you engage in will automatically be scaled to level 50, with loot/gold/legacy xp etc reflecting the difficulty. And if you don't want it, turn off hardmode and the monsters stay the same level. That would make it worthwhile to go back and experience all the content you've outleveled while maintaining a feel of progression... i mean, you had to unlock hardmode to begin with. only issue with this would be world pvp. imagine questing in hutta and seeing a level 50 character of the opposite faction questing/killing you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangbot Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 No, just no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denpic Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 You guys should make your own game and Go play it..... Now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tal-N Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 How can a level 10 be on the same planet as a level 100(example)? Can they help each other? First of all you need to understand that a level 10 and a level 100 would both find the same mobs more or less the same kind of challenge. However, there is the fact that a higher level player has access to more variety of skills than the lower level player which has the result of being able to overcome an NPCs protection. With that in mind when a level 100 starts to attack an NPC the game will need to tag that NPC as having access to a wider range of abilities to keep things interesting for the level 100. Much like TOR makes the first hit decide who gets the XP and loot drop. With that in mind a level 10 who joins in the fight (but isnt in a group with the other player) against a mob that a level 100 has already tagged is going to find the fight harder than usual. The reverse if the level 100 joins the fight against the level 10s opponent as the tagged mob will have access to fewer abilities. The solution around this is to change the scaling when the level 10 and the level 100 are teamed up. For example, the most obvious solution is to either scale the mobs to a mid-point between the level 10 and level 100 for their abilities or to keep the mobs as they would for a level 100 player and modify the amount of damage the level 10 player causes and receives from that NPC to ensure that they aren't put at a severe disadvantage due to the additional skills the NPC now has. That is one of the core benefits of a level-less system as well, you can team up with any player of any level and still have them contribute significantly to the group against any of the content in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitharen Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Scaled content is what made TES4 worse. A big part of an RPG for me is to test if I'm able to stand a fight and if not come back later with more experience and better gear. If I wanted those fights to be about how well I am able to strafe and how fast to click some dispell I'd play a FPS, not a RPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts