The Most Worthless Healer

[Lushbits]

they can kite u all around their m8s and self heal with dots,they can stealth,they can stun u,they can use evasion(if im right) so no they are not underpowered.

voidstar and turrets is their playground.

 

I know that this is the PvP forums, but you do realize that their skills must be on par with other classes for PvE as well?

[Delekii]

i have played against ops/scoundrel healers.

 

 

From my sentinel's point of view...you guys are fine. No you cant straight up heal as well as a sage. But you guys heal so much better on the move. I can jump a sage and stop his healing completely and kill him after enough interupts.

 

Ops/scoundrels i can't kill. They have so much CC and abilities and their HoTs are more powerful that they just keep running around healing themselves and others and stunning and kicking me and whatever else that i just don't even bother trying to kill you anymore.

 

Its easier to just heal debuff a dps class and focus down a target and let you sit on your *** with your CC that you save for the people dumb enough to bother chasing you.

 

Ontop of that i have seen plenty of hybrid dps/heal ops/scoundrels and then its annoying because they are actually going to fight me and kill me slowly while their hots keep them up and my health dwindles away.

 

/rant god i hate healing ops/scoundrels

 

What? Are you kidding?

 

On the move, sorcs can bubble for over 3k and cast a hot that heals for more than two stacks of the operative's heal. When they use that instant cast hot, their next two heals are 1.5 (or less, with alacrity) seconds, and if it's infusion, heals for 3.5-4k.

 

On the move, operatives can heal for 1.5k with surgical probe, IF they have a tactical advantage available, which is a 30% proc chance of a hot that ticks every two seconds, or if they shiv, which requires them to actively be IN melee range with you, or stop and cast a two second cast heal.

 

Sorc mobile healing is massively, MASSIVELY better than operative mobile healing. None of the above even considered the actual differences to MOBILITY, only to heals while mobile.

[ImSaved]

I love the people saying "I SAW AN OPERATIVE WITH 500K HEALS, THEY MUST BE GOOD."

 

This just in - HoT class looks good on the scoreboard. But while you're bunny-hopping around dropping heals on yourself for 15 minutes, how exactly is that benefiting the team? No one is saying Sawbones is the worst healing class ever created, people are just comparing it to the other two classes, but in reality, there is no comparison. They are better in almost every way.

[Erevan_Kindelar]

Sawbones, and likely the Imperial Equivalent, though I have never played an Operative. We have 0 defensive capabilities, weak HoTs, and only 2 direct heals, one of which can't be cast without a Proc the other gives.

 

Sorry Freyera, you are doign it wrong.

Sawbones and Operative are not stand-up-and-spam-heals type healers. Commandos and Mercenaries are healers with survivability, Sages/Sorcerers are alpha healers with squishiness built-in. Both of these archetypes exist in other games and are basically straight-forward to play. Sawbones and Operatives have a healing paradigm that I, at least, have not seen in any other game so the standard tactics do not work with them.

I started by rolling a Sorcerer and a Sage, then I rolled a Merc. My "Commando" is still only a Trooper on Ord Mantell though.

Finally, I rolled an IA Operative for the female voice actor and the flirting options, and a Smuggler Sawbones to find out if Corso is really as incompetent as people say he is. I sucked badly at healing to begin with, but once I stopped trying to play them the way I play my Sage/Sorc healers, I found that they are incredibly effective.

 

I can see why a lot of groups and raiding guilds do not want them - there is no "ok" room for their healing... you either do it the right way and contribute a ton, or you go against the grain and try to play SB/Op in a way it is not supposed to be played, which means you suck as a healer and cannot do anything else well either.

[Tzou]

some of the most hard to kill healers ive faced were operatives.

 

i disagree with ppl that sais OPs needs boost,they are pretty ok ,they just need skillful players.

 

at pve i dont know maybe they need some boost but then it will affect pvp too.

 

so no,no boost needed.

 

A bubble would be ideal but then ,a v good player would be immortal at pvp.

[Delekii]

Sorry Freyera, you are doign it wrong.

Sawbones and Operative are not stand-up-and-spam-heals type healers. Commandos and Mercenaries are healers with survivability, Sages/Sorcerers are alpha healers with squishiness built-in. Both of these archetypes exist in other games and are basically straight-forward to play. Sawbones and Operatives have a healing paradigm that I, at least, have not seen in any other game so the standard tactics do not work with them.

I started by rolling a Sorcerer and a Sage, then I rolled a Merc. My "Commando" is still only a Trooper on Ord Mantell though.

Finally, I rolled an IA Operative for the female voice actor and the flirting options, and a Smuggler Sawbones to find out if Corso is really as incompetent as people say he is. I sucked badly at healing to begin with, but once I stopped trying to play them the way I play my Sage/Sorc healers, I found that they are incredibly effective.

 

I can see why a lot of groups and raiding guilds do not want them - there is no "ok" room for their healing... you either do it the right way and contribute a ton, or you go against the grain and try to play SB/Op in a way it is not supposed to be played, which means you suck as a healer and cannot do anything else well either.

 

You're right, its all the players, not the class. You managed to work it out, but nobody else can.

 

 

 

No, the class just doesn't function properly, and even if it can work "ok", anyone who does reasonably on it would be doing much better on another class.

[Polimeris]

I think there is a misunderstanding here.

 

Operatives and scoundrels healers are efficient in PvP. No doubt.

Still, they appear to be less efficient in terms of survivability when compared to the other healers.

And of course, they are behind sage/sorc in healing output but that goes without saying.

 

I think we are balanced actually. Melee is our doom. But we are a bit jealous of others healers godlike mode.

[longgrassgrows]

best healers i know are Ops

[Polimeris]

best healers i know are Ops

 

Definitely a better argument than the countless comparisons on this forum.

[Acyu]

The problem in my mind is that Energy has to be managed 100% efficiently just to be even remotely competitive. If an Op and Sorc are each healing a target, and have to each drop 5 Big Heals, the Sorc is in a much better spot when he comes out. The Operative will be at 5 Energy and have to pop a CD just to recover, and the Sorc can just stand there with his linear force regen and continue as normal.

 

yeah you obviously have no idea *** you're talking about if you think sorc can spam big heals non-stop without managing force or use consumption.

 

we might be able to spam more with each "full resource bar," but we don't have a single CD that recovers a huge chunk of our resource.

 

Each consumption + normal force regen = 1 big heal. That's a GCD + heal cast time just to cast a heal if we run out force.

 

A good healer will make sure he always has force for spam if necessary, even if that means tabbing consumption a few times. PvP is not that "healing intensive" and letting people die sometimes doesn't really impose that big of a penalty on a team.

[Acyu]

What? Are you kidding?

 

On the move, sorcs can bubble for over 3k and cast a hot that heals for more than two stacks of the operative's heal. When they use that instant cast hot, their next two heals are 1.5 (or less, with alacrity) seconds, and if it's infusion, heals for 3.5-4k.

 

On the move, operatives can heal for 1.5k with surgical probe, IF they have a tactical advantage available, which is a 30% proc chance of a hot that ticks every two seconds, or if they shiv, which requires them to actively be IN melee range with you, or stop and cast a two second cast heal.

 

Sorc mobile healing is massively, MASSIVELY better than operative mobile healing. None of the above even considered the actual differences to MOBILITY, only to heals while mobile.

 

really? My HoT, besides the initial heal, only ticks for ~250 every 3 seconds.

[Metalmac]

haha, QQ....The best PvP healer I play with is an Op and he can keep me up thru a lot of stuff, but in WZ's heals are 30% nerfed, so you are expected to be killed when 5 people are on you, good healer or not.

 

As for defense, Cloaking Screen does wonders when everyone turns to get you, with the HoT's and the like, they can run around, keep people HoT'd up and hide/use terrain to there advantage and go POOF if needed, makes focusing down the healer hard, which keeps them focused on me.

 

Can we again bring up the animation times between the IA/Op vs Scoundrel.

 

All the quick animations go to the Imp side, so the Rep side is sub par for a reason.

 

Favoritism for the Imp for PVP is very apparent.

[_Flin_]

they can kite u all around their m8s and self heal with dots,they can stealth,they can stun u,they can use evasion(if im right) so no they are not underpowered.

voidstar and turrets is their playground.

 

I think they have no way to escape interruts?

The stealth stops their healing dead in their tracks for 10 seconds. so even if they succeed in stealthing, they are really gone for 10 seconds.

 

OP complains that he lacks defensive capabilities, while being bad as a healer.

 

And this is really not a good combination. I have hardly ever seen ops healer at all. It's 5:2:1 sorc:merc:ops.

 

sorcs and sages are powerful, both at damage and heal. mercs are ok in both versions. ops are good as damage dealers, not so much as heal.

[Wheem]

People who claim to survive 2-3 dps on them as a Scoundrel or Operative healer are either lying or fighting bads. Sure, there are some Warzones where I feel like an unkillable demi-god that does 500k+ healing (and get <= 5 medals for it, woot!!!), but when I'm actually against decent players that recognize my name, 2/3 or more of my healing is done on myself as I desperately try to escape the melee that are gluing themselves to me - sorry ball carrier, you're on your own.

 

I'd encourage anyone who thinks their Scoundrel or Operative healer is "fine" to go play a Sage or Sorcerer - the difference is night and day. A decent melee player is going to be in my Scoundrel's face pretty much as long as he/she decides to be (except when Dirty Kicked near a pillar without their CC break available). My Sage, on the other hand - LOL. Have fun when you're knocked back (and possibly rooted for 2-5 seconds), and I Force Speed away while removing your snare.

 

Restoration and Force Speed alone are borderline godlike, and don't even require any points in the healing tree to be useful (though it certainly helps Restoration to be even better). You can keep your AOE heal and your vastly superior bubble - and you can even have my vanish if you want (as all it really helps is my pride when being zerged by people that don't know how to prepare for it) - but gimme your Restoration and Force Speed; I'm sick of panic healing myself (and crossing my fingers for UH procs) every time a melee with an IQ over 80 decides that they want to kill me. Actually getting some breathing room once in a while sure would be nice.

 

It's actually kinda depressing to play my Scoundrel after leveling up my Sage a bit.

[Kyrandis]

Surviving 2-3 Competent DPS as a scoundrel...no,well maybe in the lowbie q.

 

50...not even. Flash Bang(1 min)/Dirty Kick(30 sec) can only take you so far. Tendon blast is the same slow everyone else gets, so no. One of them is going to get CC break.

 

Disappearing Act(3 mins) is 10 seconds of no healing received and no healing done, so no.

 

Defense Screen(45 seconds) absorbs 1 or 2 attacks, so no.

Dodge(1 min) will dodge 3 white attacks(aka non-force/non-tech) and will remove Negative effects only to have them reapplied shortly after.

 

Considering the Sawbones tree relies on gaining upperhand buff, which requires either a proc from Slow Release Medpack(unreliable), or using underworld medicine(interruptable). 2-3 competent DPS will shut you down quickly. 2,300 Healing(double stack) over 18 seconds +1,400 over 15 isn't going to keep you up. And that's without the -30% from trauma(minus expertise of course). You might be able to pop all your cooldowns and survive 10 seconds, but you won't be healing anyone other than yourself.

 

You'll get to 30% health of course and proceed to spam you 800 insta heal. But that isn't enough to out heal even 1 good DPS much less 2/3.

 

The class is not a terrible healer either. Spec'd properly and played properly it can pump out a lot of healing. But is it far from the tanking 2-3 DPS level(especially Melee dps). It is extremely mobile and has stealth. These 2 things allow us to position very well and set up.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Kyrandis

[hoonz]

i had a healing competition with a sawbones....we both got over 475k in a voidstar match....maybe dont stand out in the middle waving a flag asking to get smashed?

[Lushbits]

i had a healing competition with a sawbones....we both got over 475k in a voidstar match....maybe dont stand out in the middle waving a flag asking to get smashed?

 

And a Sorc would have gotten what in the competition? 900k?

[hoonz]

beleive it or not...sorcs arnt as powerful as people think mate.....yes they have an awesome aoe heal (15 sec cd) but they are pretty squishy (compared to troopers/BH anyway) and need to sprint away when it gets to hot for em.....

 

i suppose u could say they are the glass cannons of healers ..... a good played sorc is hard to kill ofcourse...but most stand out in the middle and get smashed

[Waagabond]

And how is the reactive heal and ground heal of Mercs/Commandos any worse? Ugh, I don't know why I bother arguing balance stuff anymore. Sometimes its legit, sometimes its a matter of playstyle. Some people just are meant to play different classes but won't...

 

I dont either.

 

Sages and sorcs are the utmost best healers and overall best class in the game.

 

Commandos have extreme survival and great single target healing and with guard on them, is near unkillable.

 

Sawbones, yes can perform well, but is, by rather far, the worst healer in the game.

 

You can troll up numbers, do what you want, but the mechanics is there.

 

Defensive screen should be on a 30 second cooldown, 15 second with talents in dirty fighting tree (why on earth have it in dirty fighting tree to begin with).

Dodge should last 5 seconds, up from 3.

And overall the heals from scoundrels needs a 20% blanket buff to compensate.

Now its a nice healer that is ON PAR with commandos and Sages/Sorcs.

[Waagabond]

beleive it or not...sorcs arnt as powerful as people think mate.....yes they have an awesome aoe heal (15 sec cd) but they are pretty squishy (compared to troopers/BH anyway) and need to sprint away when it gets to hot for em.....

 

i suppose u could say they are the glass cannons of healers ..... a good played sorc is hard to kill ofcourse...but most stand out in the middle and get smashed

 

Bubble

Aoe knockback, root, freeze,

Heals from the gods.

Spring every 20 seconds.

 

Its easier to kill a bounty hunter or commando medic then to kill a sorc. By miles.

A well played sorc you wont kill, simple as that, the tools they have to get out fo a tricky situation no other healer comes close to. Unless you vanish as a sawbone and is unable to give or recieve heals for 10 seconds...awsome, especially since you are destealthed within the first 3 seconds.

[hoonz]

Bubble

Aoe knockback, root, freeze,

Heals from the gods.

Spring every 20 seconds.

 

Its easier to kill a bounty hunter or commando medic then to kill a sorc. By miles.

A well played sorc you wont kill, simple as that, the tools they have to get out fo a tricky situation no other healer comes close to. Unless you vanish as a sawbone and is unable to give or recieve heals for 10 seconds...awsome, especially since you are destealthed within the first 3 seconds.

 

 

thats your first mistake right there

 

 

you dont need to KILL or chase down a sorc....just do enough damage that they run away....then switch...yes they come back but could be too late....dunno man...even when im dps spec i have no trouble whatsoever with sorcs....guess it comes down to playstyle

 

 

edit: sounds like your just letting off steam so ill just agree with you and we cen be like best buds or somethen

Edited February 9, 2012 by hoonz

[Lushbits]

and need to sprint away when it gets to hot for em.....

 

Yes? But they still live. You are ok with them beeing unkillable, as long as they run away and come back with full hp?

[hoonz]

Yes? But they still live. You are ok with them beeing unkillable, as long as they run away and come back with full hp?

 

if it reults in capping/defending a point...hell yer man....its not all about who heals or does the most dps...its about who does each effectivly

[Orangerascal]

Commando/Merc healing numbers always seem a shade lower than mine (Ops) -- all speculation of course. They make up for raw output though in defence and utility (Lets Play Huttball!).

 

Sorcs/Sages can well outheal me (not even counting shields!), while putting out 10-20x my DPS AND have way more utility (Lets Play Huttball!) than I do.

 

So the next patch will be very telling -- hopefully Sorcs/Sages are tuned down and/or Ops/Scoundrel are tuned up, or it looks like a reroll...

 

tell us how that goes, but I bet you you'll be whining at how high you're getting hit for.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Lushbits]

if it reults in capping/defending a point...hell yer man....its not all about who heals or does the most dps...its about who does each effectivly

 

Then I want 10 second CD on my vanish. I can always get away then, I just wont help the team out. Deal?