Get kited

[Dirtydurst]

I've been looking over the talents/skills/etc of the Operative - Concealment spec and it just seems like there are zero gap closers. There's no leap, charge, sprint, pull. Nothing of that nature.

 

Am I missing something? All other melee classes appear to have a gap closer of some kind.

[revial]

Ways to remove snares/roots that isn't tied to a 2 min timer? Check

 

Ability to snare others? Check

 

Ability to exploit cover mechanics to swiftly move across some terrain? Check

 

Have a few ranged moves for those brief moments where you aren't on your target? Check

 

I can say from personal experience at level 50 that the fear of being kited is greatly overstated. I'd suggest you spend some time with the class, and then if you're still feeling like you are always out of range of your targets, complain. Pre-emptively worrying just leads to high blood pressure.

[Dirtydurst]

Ways to remove snares/roots that isn't tied to a 2 min timer? Check

 

Ability to snare others? Check

 

Ability to exploit cover mechanics to swiftly move across some terrain? Check

 

Have a few ranged moves for those brief moments where you aren't on your target? Check

 

I can say from personal experience at level 50 that the fear of being kited is greatly overstated. I'd suggest you spend some time with the class, and then if you're still feeling like you are always out of range of your targets, complain. Pre-emptively worrying just leads to high blood pressure.

 

Is Triage effective at removing most slowing effects?

[bobmcbo]

all I can say is with cover, there's no need for a gap closer

[Verg]

Ways to remove snares/roots that isn't tied to a 2 min timer? Check

 

Ability to snare others? Check

 

Ability to exploit cover mechanics to swiftly move across some terrain? Check

 

Have a few ranged moves for those brief moments where you aren't on your target? Check

 

I can say from personal experience at level 50 that the fear of being kited is greatly overstated. I'd suggest you spend some time with the class, and then if you're still feeling like you are always out of range of your targets, complain. Pre-emptively worrying just leads to high blood pressure.

 

^^ That. It really is a non issue.

[The_Old_One]

This topic has been discussed at beta.

 

In short, Op CAN get away with no gap closer. And every melee class can anti-kite in their own ways. So unless one is REALLY REALLY TOO good at kiting, kiting is not much of an issue in this game.

 

The fight between a melee and ranged can be said as: you chase up some, he kites some; you catch and hit, he kites a bit; you catch up again... and so on.

[ReiperX]

all I can say is with cover, there's no need for a gap closer

 

This.

 

Rolling into cover, once you get the hang of it, is to amazing. You can do some wonderous stuff with it and be more mobile than some other classes.

 

Hell a sniper can probably kite someone with cover

[bobmcbo]

This.

 

Rolling into cover, once you get the hang of it, is to amazing. You can do some wonderous stuff with it and be more mobile than some other classes.

 

Hell a sniper can probably kite someone with cover

 

ah, I meant (how am I forgetting what it's called?) uuhh... cloaking?

[_Foy]

I'd say you're overstating the ability to abuse cover to roll as a gap closer. There are many places where there aren't many cover spots (that you can roll into) and if you're being kited by someone intelligent they'll stay out in the open away from such spots.

 

You can see that concealment has a 15% speed boost which would help though.

[Phated]

First off, stealth is your biggest gap closer. After you open on someone you have plenty of snares/slows to keep them from kiting you. You have a 10m range on a lot of your abilities, and it shouldn't be hard to keep them within 10m if they don't see you coming. Secondly, you get a passive 15% speed bonus ALL the time, which helps considerably. Thirdly, we do have 30m ranged abilities (corrosive dart, grenade, rifle shot) that can be used while chasing someone. While those abilities don't do as much damage as our melee attacks, they are definitely not negligible and are enough to make someone think twice about trying to kite an operative. If they're constantly running from you, they're not going to be able to use their hardest hitting abilities either. Lastly, you have heals. You can stop chasing someone at any point, take few steps back out of their range and cast a heal or two on yourself, making it that much harder to actually kill you by kiting.

 

Gap closers really are not an issue for us. Shadows/assassins are much worse off.

[MasamuneX]

Yeah having force speed and pull must suck lol

 

But in all honesty we dont require much, we get 15% run speed through talents, a snare ( root talented ) some CC and the ability to dish out dps on move cloak and vanish.

[Verg]

Yeah having force speed and pull must suck lol

 

But in all honesty we dont require much, we get 15% run speed through talents, a snare ( root talented ) some CC and the ability to dish out dps on move cloak and vanish.

 

The absolute only thing I wish we had was a stealth opener that silenced for ~5 seconds, preferably with a small dot component. I miss garrote :-*(.

[MasamuneX]

The absolute only thing I wish we had was a stealth opener that silenced for ~5 seconds, preferably with a small dot component. I miss garrote :-*(.

 

Hidden strike, talented honestly does the job. Keep that finger on distract

[Phated]

Yeah having force speed and pull must suck lol

 

But in all honesty we dont require much, we get 15% run speed through talents, a snare ( root talented ) some CC and the ability to dish out dps on move cloak and vanish.

 

Yea, they have two abilities to help them close, but they need it because they have 0 ranged options. If those are on cooldown and a target is more than 10m from them there's NOTHING they can do. We still have options, that was my point.

[MasamuneX]

Yea, they have two abilities to help them close, but they need it because they have 0 ranged options. If those are on cooldown and a target is more than 10m from them there's NOTHING they can do. We still have options, that was my point.

 

Im not disapproving on your stance. I agree we're fine. Im disagreeing with what your saying about assassins/shadows. Btw, they also have ranged options. They just have cd's or channeled casting. I know im nitpicking. But again lets atleast be honest about the differences.

 

I remember was sever tendon was a true gap closer. It was seriously awesome. While we dont need it, I would love to see it brought back

[Phated]

Im not disapproving on your stance. I agree we're fine. Im disagreeing with what your saying about assassins/shadows. Btw, they also have ranged options. They just have cd's or channeled casting. I know im nitpicking. But again lets atleast be honest about the differences.

 

I remember was sever tendon was a true gap closer. It was seriously awesome. While we dont need it, I would love to see it brought back

 

Wasn't trying to start an argument either, just justifying my statement. The fact that they have almost no range is a BIG part of the reason I'm playing an Op instead. I had originally been set on assassin. And a ranged ability that can't be used while moving doesn't really do much good as far as being kited lol, which is the subject at hand. Personally, I don't remember ANY of their abilities having more than 10m range, but I'll take your word for it since I haven't played one after all the changes.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Phated

[MasamuneX]

Wasn't trying to start an argument either, just justifying my statement. The fact that they have almost no range is a BIG part of the reason I'm playing an Op instead. I had originally been set on assassin. And a ranged ability that can't be used while moving doesn't really do much good as far as being kited lol, which is the subject at hand. Personally, I don't remember ANY of their abilities having more than 10m range, but I'll take your word for it since I haven't played one after all the changes.

 

Your right, 10m is the most i believe but its still better then nothing. Op vs sa is a no brainer for me. Having leveled op to 50 and working on my final fourth time its easily the best rogue class I've ever played bar none. While abit of a late bloomer it really shines @ 50.

 

The only problem with that is people will give up it way to early without giving it much of a shot.

 

More glory for us I guess

Edited December 16, 2011 by MasamuneX

[Bwuce]

Don't forget though, assassins, already at lower lvl, get 2 ranged CC's: electrocute (for us it's 10m?) is their stun and they get whirlwind, both are 30m, they're also not as dot-dependant as we are.

 

There lies their biggest advantage, at least at lower lvls, imo, so much cc, i love cc

Don't get me wrong, flash grenade is nice but it's short range and short duration, whirlwind in pve is 60s, they get force pull and got pbaoe KB on short CD while we have no displacement CC at all

 

 

Sure we get sleep dart, but assassins get something similar. I feel amazingly squishy as my operative, assassin can use tank stance in pvp.

 

I'm hoping operatives will get better by level cos atm i'm not nearly as powerful as my assassin.

[Greyfeld]

Your right, 10m is the most i believe but its still better then nothing. Op vs sa is a no brainer for me. Having leveled op to 50 and working on my final fourth time its easily the best rogue class I've ever played bar none. While abit of a late bloomer it really shines @ 50.

 

The only problem with that is people will give up it way to early without giving it much of a shot.

 

More glory for us I guess

 

I originally rolled up an IA with the intent of going stealther Operative. However, after playing my first 12 levels, I'm having a hard time switching from ranged combat to melee (though that may have to do more with the fact that I only really have two melee skills atm).

 

Does stealth work well with Lethality? Or does it become unnecessary?

Edited December 18, 2011 by Greyfeld

[vdbswong]

Don't forget though, assassins, already at lower lvl, get 2 ranged CC's: electrocute (for us it's 10m?) is their stun and they get whirlwind, both are 30m, they're also not as dot-dependant as we are.

 

I believe Electrocute is 10m, can't remember about Whirlwind but i know it's slightly longer range.

 

The difference is that the Operative's stun is 4m.

[Bwuce]

I believe Electrocute is 10m, can't remember about Whirlwind but i know it's slightly longer range.

 

The difference is that the Operative's stun is 4m.

 

electrocute is 30m, see the imbalance?

 

my friends both rolled assassins and i'm operative because of that, i see the difference in pvp, their backstab has no cooldown and does about 50% more dmg than ours, they also get more cc and more survivability with their tanking stance (still do great dps with it), but we're still under lvl 20, so it might all change, we might get more poweful, but so will they

[Aridon]

Spamming maul without duplicity is a noob move.

 

The sin gets some nice tools and is harder to play right than an operative. You can macro an operative. Sins have too many reactionary buffs in their best spec too do that.

[Esplol]

Don't forget though, assassins, already at lower lvl, get 2 ranged CC's: electrocute (for us it's 10m?) is their stun and they get whirlwind, both are 30m, they're also not as dot-dependant as we are.

 

There lies their biggest advantage, at least at lower lvls, imo, so much cc, i love cc

Don't get me wrong, flash grenade is nice but it's short range and short duration, whirlwind in pve is 60s, they get force pull and got pbaoe KB on short CD while we have no displacement CC at all

 

 

Sure we get sleep dart, but assassins get something similar. I feel amazingly squishy as my operative, assassin can use tank stance in pvp.

 

I'm hoping operatives will get better by level cos atm i'm not nearly as powerful as my assassin.

 

Assassin whirlwind is only 8sec duration and force pull is only tank spec.

[Reenolols]

Spamming maul without duplicity is a noob move.

 

The sin gets some nice tools and is harder to play right than an operative. You can macro an operative. Sins have too many reactionary buffs in their best spec too do that.

 

Hilarious. You can macro an operative? Sin at 50 = Voltaic, Voltaic, Shock, Force breach, >30% assassinate whatever it's called. You can counter that saying Op at 50 = HS, AB, Backstab, shiv, AB. They have simple rotations, but no way in hell sins have a higher skill cap. Just lol.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Reenolols

[Aridon]

Hilarious. You can macro an operative? Sin at 50 = Voltaic, Voltaic, Shock, Force breach, >30% assassinate whatever it's called. You can counter that saying Op at 50 = HS, AB, Backstab, shiv, AB. They have simple rotations, but no way in hell sins have a higher skill cap. Just lol.

 

Voltaic spec is garbage and people will learn quickly they can gain utility and damage with a hybrid tank / madness spec.

 

Look into and get back to me before you laugh like a noob thinking there is one and only spec.

 

Given the cool downs on the operative it's simple to macro the rotation. Try doing that with a real sin spec and not lol voltaic slash shock. The kiddies will like that because its simple but hardly best or highest damaging.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Aridon