Those numbers are not good. They're viable, sure, but they're not competitive.

If those are the only changes, I think you will see a lot more unsubs than those that have already happened. Those changes alone will certainly not bring the all of the healers into line.

Sigh. These people are on the defensive because you are on the offensive. You can't punch someone and then say "LOL you're trying to defend yourself." You're the direct cause. You're really showing off your lack of knowledge when it comes to your "Directive 7" argument. Your comment is that with undergeared people sages have hard times. Obviously I shouldn't have to say it, but with undergeared people EVERY healer has a hard time. That's pretty much the definition of the word. You have to sit down (you're already there, good) and get one interesting but very important point through your head. Sage's have better instant cast heals than any other healer. Read it again. It's not a joke, it's not an exaggeration, it's not extrapolation. Everyone else realizes it, and you obviously still don't understand. Look into several different threads on this forum, the math has been done. If you restrict all three healers to only using instant casts, Sage comes out way on top. Your arguments about "oh, well sometimes you have to move" are all ill-founded and an exercise in snap judgments that are wrong at the very foundation of logic. You're basically making our point for us. I'm not intending this post to be an attack on you at a personal level, but I need you to understand that everything that you're saying in defense of your class is absolutely and undeniably incorrect. The experience, the math, the facts have all been done and documented. To continue to argue that point is simply an indication of raw and unadulterated ignorance. Please, for your own appearance's sake, do some research and realize that there is a severe class imbalance. If you're having trouble with sage, you are a bad player.

You, sir, are a god among men for posting this so eloquently. I will sacrifice my next fatted calf to you. Maybe if I ran more often and ate less pizza, I wouldn't have fat calves. On a serious note, I don't want to play a Sorc. It's starting to look like I might have to in order to reach my full potential as a dedicated healer.

Bump. I don't want to roll a Sorc but if this patch goes through and a simple talent fix can't be included then I will have lost all faith.

What are the plans on balancing operative/smuggler healers to be on par with sage/sorcerer healers? As I'm sure you fancy dev types are aware, there is information all over the class and healing role forums regarding this disparity. Thank you!

This thread is so *********** epic

Bump. This needs to be looked at. Several of our talents are broken to the point of not working whatsoever. Apart from that, our class needs a bit of a fix. Concealment nerf? I can live with that. At least make our other trees as good as our peers the Sorcs.

As an operative healer who is struggling to not reroll Sorc, I appreciate this. It's a strong step towards fixing the gap between healers. Considering the extreme difference in utility between the two classes, these numbers should NOT look like this. /salute

You think that just because it's done in a warzone that he did it through the Trauma debuff?

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=219491 Pretty good discussion going on there

An AoE blind that breaks on any damage, a single target MELEE stun, a single target slow that is almost melee range and a laughable personal shield. Again, inferior in every way. I didn't mention it because I assumed it didn't need to be mentioned. I'm sorry to have been incorrect. It's not about undervaluing. It's not about perception. It's about simple math. Agreed, nothing further needed. Thanks for stopping by and I wish you the best.

I'm not sure where you heard that argument. I never said I preferred hard casting on execute range. I merely said that spamming our instant heal in execute range is not "more than enough to keep them up." Yes, it's the best thing we can do. No, it's not as good as what other healers can do in that situation. I will agree with you that instant casts have a lot of bonus to them that the other healers cannot boast. Having heals that can't be interrupted is quite nice. Let me tell you what other healers can do to compare: Bounty Hunters have an earth shield mechanic up on the target getting hit that fares way better than Kolto Probe has ever been known to. Also, they have Emergency Scan as a beefy instant cast for those "oh-****" situations. Even if they are scared of being interrupted because they have to cast, they can briefly become immune to interrupts. To give some breathing room they have an AoE knockback. Or, they can ranged stun the person doing the damage to their healing target. Options. A smart Sorc/Sage has pre-shielded at the same time as an operative would pre-hot and their de-ionized debuff is wearing off so that they can do it again soon. In the meantime they have multiple effective heals to attempt to get off if they aren't pressured. If they are pressured and fear interrupt, they have a knockback, a ranged stun, and force speed to instantly ignore any melee. Options. Both of those classes have also pre-HoTted their targets and their HoTs provide a 100% uptime armor buff. Other utility involves multiple ranged slows on the sorc's part to help with kiting and a targetted speed buff. Mercenary healers are allowed heavy armor and an AoE heal that increases healing received along with an excellent "time to heal a lot" button with Supercharged Gas. We have a 3 second immunity to physical damage on a 1 minute cooldown that we have to instead use to remove DoT effects so that our vanish is actually useful in saving our lives but letting our teammates die. Again, I'm not claiming we aren't viable. My argument is that we're not equal.

Yes, I'm quite aware of the difference in interrupt mechanics. That was the point of my argument, actually. Since we only really have one casted heal, those interrupts are much more fatal for us than they are for someone else. My point in this particular section of the discussion is that if we get interrupted, our healing is stopped. No other healer has to deal with this. Yes, we can alleviate this a little by using our inefficient HoT and low instant heal. Other classes have much better options for that. The healing you can do with one tick of our HoT and two instant heals is much much less than other classes could do in the same time frame. That's assuming you even had two tactical advantages when you were kicked. How often do you cast your 2sec heal when you have two tactical advantages? Not often, I hope. You lost me when you said that spamming our instant heal in <30% situations is "more than enough" to keep someone up in a lockout. I'm sorry, but it's just not possible in Battlemaster gear to do that. That's execute range, and our instant heal is nowhere near good enough to contend with the execute-style abilities that are out there. As for baiting kicks with diagnostic scan, I really wish I could find people willing to interrupt that. I definitely agree with everything you're saying, just not to the magnitude that it's on par with the other healers. Yes, we can do these things, and yes it may be sufficient in some situations, but it's still not up to the standards the other classes can achieve.

Just so we're all clear, you're saying you can keep someone alive in PvP by using instant casts alone? As for Mr. Seacrest, I agree with you but with a very important addendum: When we get interrupted we have no other option. We're only casting because we need the heal now instead of over the next eighteen seconds and probably don't have the two tactical advantages to spare for surgical spam. Other healers do not have this issue. If a Sage's main casted heal gets interrupted, he just uses his slightly less potent faster casted heal. It's fairly inefficient, but their force pool mechanic allows for that. Our heal over time abilities aren't worth the time and energy it takes to cast them so we must resort to casted heals that are less efficient than our counterparts' which puts us in a pretty bad spot. I won't go into detail about the insane lack of utility on our part, others have done a fine job of that already in the other thread. Again, I don't doubt that you're doing well. I'm no slouch either. It's fairly easy to see, however, that we're fighting an uphill battle compared to the others with no reward for the difficulty. I should not have to play a Sorc to achieve their numbers.