Consular...the ultimate Fred Flinstone fantasy...

[sordidmagi]

i dont think that telekinetic throw is meant to be seen as you throwing pebbles, consular abilities are very much about force waves. Telekinetic throw to me seems like a strong continuous force wind that just propels debris caught in it. I dont think anything is wrong with the concept, it just needs to look more powerful. kind of like the force wave satele did to Malgus in the one cinematic.

[Dyvim]

i dont think that telekinetic throw is meant to be seen as you throwing pebbles, consular abilities are very much about force waves. Telekinetic throw to me seems like a strong continuous force wind that just propels debris caught in it. I dont think anything is wrong with the concept, it just needs to look more powerful. kind of like the force wave satele did to Malgus in the one cinematic.

 

The tooltip describes it as "hurling a volley of debris..." so yes, it does need a complete makeover, similar to what Satele did to Malgus.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Dyvim

[Dyvim]

You have an idea of Jedi drilled into your mind that they all have to look a certain way. You're right though we should all dress the same and do all of the same things and talk the same way because nothing great was ever accomplished by challenging the status quo... OH WAIT

 

Really? You can go from my "I dont want jedi skills based on a sith ability, and I dont want jedi diplomats/consulars wearing rags for their gear progressed uber endgame gear" to somehow miraculously translate that into "I want everyone to dress the same and do things the same and talk the same?" Are you absolutely nuts? What I do want is for a jedi class to be based and follow jedi themes. If you dont want that then why pay to play an IP based game? What is the purpose of the IP that 10s of millions of people love if you cant manage to get the basics right?

Edited January 21, 2012 by Dyvim

[JacenHallis]

That only exists in the EU which is not G canon. I am even going to out on a limb and say that this substance was specifically created by a fan fic writer who was fervently in love with Jango Fett and hated how he was dishonorably killed in EP 6 so much that he went out of his way to invent a material that would make his Mary Sue bounty hunter completely impervious to lightsabers just cause he was so mad.

 

And that right there is a perfect example of why I do not accept EU stuff as canon.

 

In the movies this material does not exist and has never ever existed. If it did exist you can bet your *** that it would have made an appearance.

 

To address the actual topic at hand, double project just looks plain badas. I don't really care that it has no George Lucas precedent, My KC Shadow just wouldn't be the same without it.

Perhaps you don't understand that you are playing a game whose lore is firmly entrenched in the EU and will, in fact, expand that part of canon. In that case, I would like to remind you that you are playing a game whose lore is firmly entrenched in the EU and will, in fact, expand that part of canon.

 

There are a number of lightsaber-resistant materials in the galaxy. Cortosis is only one. Phrik is another, and it is the basis for Grievous' bodyguard's electrostaves. The third is Mandalorian Iron.

 

Phrik first appeared in 1994, Mandalorian Iron showed up in 1995, and cortosis showed up in 1998. You'll note that all three of these dates are before the appearance on Jango Fett in Attack of the Clones, released in 2002.

 

Regarding animations for consular abilities, I believe they are fine. Hurling objects is no more a dark side than jumping high or running fast are light-side trait. Yoda never hurled an object in the OT, but he sure did pick up an X-Wing out of a swamp. Luke picked up some rocks while standing on his head. Is it really so hard to believe that the Jedi of the old Order, which, unlike what Mace Windu said about the post-Ruusan Jedi, very much were soldiers, would find and utilize combat applications of as many Force abilities as they could?

 

As far as Project goes, ripping debris from the ground/deckplate/whatever is a necessity of the game. It would certainly look cooler to pick up a crate or two from nearby and slam it/them into your target, but manipulation of the environment on that scale would be tough to accomplish in an MMO. There's also the fact that sometimes there just isn't an object nearby which would work for the power, and the power should be usable at all times in an MMO.

 

Project is certainly more fitting to a Jedi than what was originally in its place: a move where the Jedi would lift the target and then slam it into the ground.

 

I hope this works as a more objective reason than "I like it." It should be noted, though, that the enjoyment of something need never be qualified. Sometimes, the reason someone finds enjoyment in something cannot really be quantified.

[flyersfan]

There has been discontent with the class for a long time by alot of people...so perhaps you can convince me how it provides a jedi experience...

 

You run around the galaxy learning a specialised Force technique to save lives and protect the innocent. That is exactly what a Jedi is supposed to do. You use what you have learned to help, protect, and assist, not destroy. There has been discontent because people don't seem to realise what they're getting into. If you want to play someone strapped with explosives and constantly on a head hunt, then play a Trooper or a Bounty Hunter. That's what they are there for. In addition, the Jedi Knight class is there for those that want to literally jump (or leap) into the middle of the fray and start swinging what looks like a stun baton around. If you want to play a character that spends most of his or her time buried under datapads learning the intricacies of the Force, diplomatic strategies, and cultural differences in preparation for a diplomatic mission, then play a Jedi Consular because that's what Consulars do.

 

Perhaps you can convince me of the coolness factor in how our two main abilities consist of throwing junk and pebbles?

 

You use the Force to defend your allies rather than to cause pure pain and suffering. If you did otherwise, that would be out of the Jedi experience. If you're looking for cool & flashy, then that would be out of the Jedi experience. Jedi aren't reliant on the "coolness factor." If that is truly what you're looking for, then search elsewhere. There are plenty of other classes that provide flashy animations and visually exciting combat.

 

Perhaps you can convince me how the end game gear is appropriate, with its rag look?

Or perhaps you can convince me how THIS gear progression makes sense in a jedi theme or in ANYWAY whatsoever???

 

The Jedi Consular is supposed to be a learned ambassador, not a warlord, so the robes are extremely appropriate. Ambassadors come in peace, not strapped to the teeth with heavy armour. What better way is there to disrupt a peace summit than to show up already prepared for war?

 

"Led by the Council of Reconciliation, the Consulars sought diplomatic measures in spreading peace and harmony across the Galactic Republic. Refraining from drawing their lightsabers except as a measure of last resort, Consulars spent a great deal of time studying the mysteries of the Force." This is not what you're looking for. Also, even the most iconic Jedi wear sweeping cloaks and baggy robes. This is very common. http://images.wikia.com/swfanon/images/b/ba/ObiWanKenobi.JPG

Edited January 21, 2012 by flyersfan

[Wolftg]

O.k. i may have missed it in this thread but 1 thing that seems to have been overlooked is that the lore used in this game consists of more than what was used it the movies there has also been almost 30 years of books, comic books, video games,.etc. that have also been used in this game and if you look at the animated clone wars released between episode 2 and 3 there were several instances of Jedi using the bolts and other scraps from droids as projectiles in combat

 

as far as the appearance of the pvp gear while not pleasing is designed to appear as it would after the long series of battles that you went through to and continue going through while wearing it.

[Souvarr]

I have to agree that projectile is by all mean not right. This is based on practical reason, as well as role reason (and that not including that this is one of many reason there more imperial). On a practical reason, not every place have large boulders or junk in the ground to throw, and the mear force require to pull the boulder out through a metal road and at a target would be more efficent to blast the target with the force like in the trail. Second it not practical for confine fighting if I had to throw a boulder from my kitchen table to my bathroom I have less then two feet between the fidge, the wall, and counter. Now a force blast or lighting bolt would work.

Now as a role we are either the special elite sent in to eliminate a target or sabatoges. Now as a Shadow Jedi would you want leave a large hole in the ground just screaming "SHADOW JEDI WAS HERE". You want go in do your job dispose of any body and begun. As a Sage you may act as a diplomate. In fact that basically what we are doin of Nar Saddar. As a diplomatic tool which side you think the Hutts would join. The side that fry a target and cost them 100 credit to dispose of the body, or the one that cost them several thousand credit to repair the road and dispose of the body due to a large rock that now sit on a body. It be better, more practical in a story telling point, role of our class, and in my opinen cool to give us the force blast from the trailer. Also as a balancing issue in the game it be easier since in theory they have the same time to deploy as a light bolt.

PS don't get work up about my spelling. I know I can't spell.

[LordZanos]

I play Sorc but I think the tattered look on the Sage robes you posted looks pretty cool. You know, old and sagey.

 

Matter of preference I suppose.

[JacenHallis]

I have to agree that projectile is by all mean not right. This is based on practical reason, as well as role reason (and that not including that this is one of many reason there more imperial). On a practical reason, not every place have large boulders or junk in the ground to throw, and the mear force require to pull the boulder out through a metal road and at a target would be more efficent to blast the target with the force like in the trail. Second it not practical for confine fighting if I had to throw a boulder from my kitchen table to my bathroom I have less then two feet between the fidge, the wall, and counter. Now a force blast or lighting bolt would work.

 

F=mv

 

Force is equal to the product of mass and velocity. This is why an 18-wheeler that hits a car at 55 mph will do a lot more damage than a 4-door sedan that hits a car at 55 mph. Hitting something with pure Force power wouldn't really have the impact that Project does by the mere fact that the rock/droid/holocron/whatever has mass, which increases the force of the hit (i.e. the damage potential) greatly.

 

The rest of your post is all about suspension of disbelief, and I covered it in a previous post in this thread. The animation for the ability is done so that the ability can be used everywhere. In the game world, you wouldn't be pulling "boulders through a metal road." you'd be flinging whatever object is conveniently lying about. Using actual objects from the terrain would cause even more load on the server itself. And, if you're in thre middle of an open area (like the Dune Sea or parts of Hoth), there really are no convenient objects lying around to throw.

 

Now as a role we are either the special elite sent in to eliminate a target or sabatoges. Now as a Shadow Jedi would you want leave a large hole in the ground just screaming "SHADOW JEDI WAS HERE".

This thread is about consulars in general--not just the shadows. Again, holes in the ground are not a problem in the game world. Though, I guess if you want to take the animation literally ... well, it still wouldn't be a problem, as the ground fixes itself after a few seconds.

 

It be better, more practical in a story telling point, role of our class, and in my opinen cool to give us the force blast from the trailer. Also as a balancing issue in the game it be easier since in theory they have the same time to deploy as a light bolt.

PS don't get work up about my spelling. I know I can't spell.

If you want the Force blast as seen in the Hope trailer, roll up a Sage. That's their bag, and it looks pretty cool.

 

And no complaining about how Satele is a shadow, and shadows need to be able to do what Satele did. Satele is not bound by the artificial restrictions necessary to differentiate classes and maintain balance. She's just a Jedi Knight, but not in the mechanical sense of the game class.

[Dyvim]

F=mv

 

Force is equal to the product of mass and velocity. This is why an 18-wheeler that hits a car at 55 mph will do a lot more damage than a 4-door sedan that hits a car at 55 mph. Hitting something with pure Force power wouldn't really have the impact that Project does by the mere fact that the rock/droid/holocron/whatever has mass, which increases the force of the hit (i.e. the damage potential) greatly.

 

The rest of your post is all about suspension of disbelief, and I covered it in a previous post in this thread. The animation for the ability is done so that the ability can be used everywhere. In the game world, you wouldn't be pulling "boulders through a metal road." you'd be flinging whatever object is conveniently lying about. Using actual objects from the terrain would cause even more load on the server itself. And, if you're in thre middle of an open area (like the Dune Sea or parts of Hoth), there really are no convenient objects lying around to throw.

 

 

This thread is about consulars in general--not just the shadows. Again, holes in the ground are not a problem in the game world. Though, I guess if you want to take the animation literally ... well, it still wouldn't be a problem, as the ground fixes itself after a few seconds.

 

 

If you want the Force blast as seen in the Hope trailer, roll up a Sage. That's their bag, and it looks pretty cool.

 

And no complaining about how Satele is a shadow, and shadows need to be able to do what Satele did. Satele is not bound by the artificial restrictions necessary to differentiate classes and maintain balance. She's just a Jedi Knight, but not in the mechanical sense of the game class.

 

I appreciate that you try to make good arguments, thanks for putting in the time. But they are largely flawed. For example F= Mass * Acceleration, not velocity. Momentum is the product of mass and velocity. You are missing many points. I start with one of the most obvious. What happens when a laser impacts a target? Your talk of mass is meaningless when you talk about energy projectiles because energy has a different type of damaging effect. So your assertion that force "power" would hit with less "impact" is flawed. We don't know what kind of power force energy would hit with but we can assume its kinetic and that it hits like a ton of bricks, based on force push, etc. But applying classic physics to force effects, even after you get the formulas right, is not really appropriate when dealing with mystical power like the Force.

 

Look at what Satele does in the hope trailer. That force energy does indeed hit like a ton of bricks. I would take it over a semi anyday...lol.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Dyvim

[Dyvim]

You run around the galaxy learning a specialised Force technique to save lives and protect the innocent. That is exactly what a Jedi is supposed to do. You use what you have learned to help, protect, and assist, not destroy. There has been discontent because people don't seem to realise what they're getting into. If you want to play someone strapped with explosives and constantly on a head hunt, then play a Trooper or a Bounty Hunter. That's what they are there for. In addition, the Jedi Knight class is there for those that want to literally jump (or leap) into the middle of the fray and start swinging what looks like a stun baton around. If you want to play a character that spends most of his or her time buried under datapads learning the intricacies of the Force, diplomatic strategies, and cultural differences in preparation for a diplomatic mission, then play a Jedi Consular because that's what Consulars do.

 

 

 

You use the Force to defend your allies rather than to cause pure pain and suffering. If you did otherwise, that would be out of the Jedi experience. If you're looking for cool & flashy, then that would be out of the Jedi experience. Jedi aren't reliant on the "coolness factor." If that is truly what you're looking for, then search elsewhere. There are plenty of other classes that provide flashy animations and visually exciting combat.

 

 

 

The Jedi Consular is supposed to be a learned ambassador, not a warlord, so the robes are extremely appropriate. Ambassadors come in peace, not strapped to the teeth with heavy armour. What better way is there to disrupt a peace summit than to show up already prepared for war?

 

"Led by the Council of Reconciliation, the Consulars sought diplomatic measures in spreading peace and harmony across the Galactic Republic. Refraining from drawing their lightsabers except as a measure of last resort, Consulars spent a great deal of time studying the mysteries of the Force." This is not what you're looking for. Also, even the most iconic Jedi wear sweeping cloaks and baggy robes. This is very common. http://images.wikia.com/swfanon/images/b/ba/ObiWanKenobi.JPG

 

Did you even bother to read what I wrote? I am looking for force effects like what Satele uses. Not throwing junk and debris. The movies have shown us that sith do this more than jedi. So basing the jedi skillset on it for ranged attacks is flawed. Where do you get the "explosives and headhunting comment from?" Are you in the right thread?

 

What I dont want is to play a consular that throws junk and debris instead of having powers based on force effects. I also dont want to play a consular whose endgame gear is tattered and in rags. Again, did you even read what I wrote? I dont mind robes, I just mind ragged, torn, robes. The gear progression for the class puzzlingly goes from refined to rags. Doesnt make sense. Like I posted earlier, that would be the equivalent of having the endgame Knight gear be armor that is rusted and coming apart at the seams...there is no reason for it, it is completely unsupported by lore and just common sense.

[Dyvim]

O.k. i may have missed it in this thread but 1 thing that seems to have been overlooked is that the lore used in this game consists of more than what was used it the movies there has also been almost 30 years of books, comic books, video games,.etc. that have also been used in this game and if you look at the animated clone wars released between episode 2 and 3 there were several instances of Jedi using the bolts and other scraps from droids as projectiles in combat

 

as far as the appearance of the pvp gear while not pleasing is designed to appear as it would after the long series of battles that you went through to and continue going through while wearing it.

 

Really, again, then why isnt the knight style endgame armour rusted, dented and in tatters?

[JacenHallis]

I appreciate that you try to make good arguments, thanks for putting in the time. But they are largely flawed. For example F= Mass * Acceleration, not velocity. Momentum is the product of mass and velocity. You are missing many points. I start with one of the most obvious. What happens when a laser impacts a target? Your talk of mass is meaningless when you talk about energy projectiles because energy has a different type of damaging effect. So your assertion that force "power" would hit with less "impact" is flawed. We don't know what kind of power force energy would hit with but we can assume its kinetic and that it hits like a ton of bricks, based on force push, etc. But applying classic physics to force effects, even after you get the formulas right, is not really appropriate when dealing with mystical power like the Force.

 

Look at what Satele does in the hope trailer. That force energy does indeed hit like a ton of bricks. I would take it over a semi anyday...lol.

Yes, my brain hiccoughed, and I said Force instead of Momentum. The argument remains valid, though. Momentum is the physical explanation behind projectile weapon damage.

 

Lasers heat things. That's how the more powerful lasers cut things; they simply melt away the material. In fact, that's the basis of lasers as weaponry. They repeatedly strike a surface causing rapid expansion and evaporation of the spot of impact. They don't simply "punch through" things like, say, a HEAT round from an M1 Abrams would. In fact, if a target of a laser were to lose balance as a result of the weapon, it would be as a result of the lost mass throwing off balance, rather than the force of the hit causing it to fall over.

 

I'll say again, though, that if you want the Force wave that Satele unleashed in Hope, roll a Sage. They have it, but I'm not sure what it's called. I want to say Turbulence or Telekinetic Wave.

 

The Force has always been to me a power that allows people to bend the laws of physics in the Star Wars universe, rather than outright ignore them. Despite what Yoda said, it's very obvious that "size matters not" was merely a way to get Luke to think differently rather than a maxim of Force use. Yoda, at almost 900 years old, was powerful enough to be able to lift an X-Wing with relative ease. But those pipes that Dooku brought down on him gave him a bit of a struggle, didn't they? It's very obvious throughout the movies and the EU that size (or, rather, mass) does indeed matter.

Edited January 22, 2012 by JacenHallis

[Dyvim]

Yes, my brain hiccoughed, and I said Force instead of Momentum. The argument remains valid, though. Momentum is the physical explanation behind projectile weapon damage.

 

...

 

I'll say again, though, that if you want the Force wave that Satele unleashed in Hope, roll a Sage. They have it, but I'm not sure what it's called. I want to say Turbulence or Telekinetic Wave.

 

 

Again, trying to apply physics as we understand them to force attacks where the force is an energy field that surrounds and permeates all things seems impossible. To say the force creates mass-based projectiles as we understand them is also pointless, IMO.

 

And I will say it again. I want the classes ranged attacks to be based on more jedi-like force animations instead of throwing junk, debris and rocks. So yes, sage does have something like satele's attack, it is called disturbance, then telekinetic wave, but the classes fundamental, one-two punch ranged attacks are project and throw, which are enhanced by multiple talents for both sage and shadow. They are the basis for the classes ranged attacks. That is totally wrong. That is my point. The basis should be force based energy style attacks, like what satele uses...not throwing rocks, junk, and debris...the movies showed us that sith typically do those things, NOT jedi.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Dyvim

[JacenHallis]

the movies showed us that sith typically do those things, NOT jedi.

But the movies are not the only basis for the lore. They are one basis, and certainly they comprise a fairly big one. But, we are very luckily not limited to the movies as background for this game.

[Dyvim]

But the movies are not the only basis for the lore. They are one basis, and certainly they comprise a fairly big one. But, we are very luckily not limited to the movies as background for this game.

 

Everyone has seen the movies, they are the ultimate source of canon. Please use a bit of common sense, and I'm not trying to be a jerk with that statement. Its obvious that sith throw things. Predominantly. Now, I like this game very much and I am excited for its future. But it has room for improvement. I saw the original in the theatre in '77. I played all the games, from xwing on up. If you look at the abilities in df2:jk or even the kotors, they VERY much follow with the canon of the movies. Jedi dont throw debris as the basis of their skills. Anyone who thinks they do is just plain wrong. I'm sorry, but at the end of the day, we must be reasonable.

 

Now, I think it would be fine to amend the Forcequake animation. Right now, the animation contains two small zephyrs by the toon, just like telekinetic wave does...why not replace those with a project ani on either side (like a double expertise project), 1 for each second of the channelling. Now this would improve forcequake, IMO, because it would make it more obvious where the skill was coming from, and with objects being thrown into the kill zone of the quake, it would be quite awesome, IMO. So chunk a clunker would still be a part of the class, BUT NOT THE FOUNDATION of the class.

 

Yes there is the EU. There is so much in the EU, you can find about anything, like Sith that use blue lightsabers (Exar Kun). But, we have the predominant, what people expect, lore. And that is clearly not for jedi to be junk tossing, rag wearing shamans...sorry, it just isnt. I have yet to see a single argument, here, or in my animation thread, that can begin to hold water against those simple, basic points.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Dyvim

[JacenHallis]

I have yet to see a single argument, here, or in my animation thread, that can begin to hold water against those simple, basic points.

Then you're not listening, and you're dismissing arguments out of hand because they don't line up with your thinking.

[flyersfan]

Did you even bother to read what I wrote?

 

Yes

 

I am looking for force effects like what Satele uses.

 

Play a Sage and use Disturbance.

 

So basing the jedi skillset on it for ranged attacks is flawed

 

Get over it or play a different class/game.

 

Where do you get the "explosives and headhunting comment from?" Are you in the right thread?

 

It means "get over it or play a different class/game." Troopers and Bounty Hunters have the "iconic" armour that you seem to be looking for. Bounty Hunters are conveniently unoriginal and look just like Calo Nord & Boba Fett. You can pursue that dream of looking like the been here done that characters of the past. As for gameplay, it sounds like you're looking for lots of flashy nonsense rather than the path of an ambassador.

 

What I dont want is to play a consular that throws junk and debris instead of having powers based on force effects.

 

Then don't play a Consular.

 

I also dont want to play a consular whose endgame gear is tattered and in rags.

 

Then don't play a Consular

 

Again, did you even read what I wrote?

 

Again, yes.

 

It's obvious that nothing will please you. You are nitpicking about everything about the class, not taking any advice (JacenHallis - "then you're not listening, and you're dismissing arguments out of hand because they don't line up with your thinking"), and only repeating yourself. It looks like what you want is for BioWare to cancel the game, go back to the studio, and call you for your acceptance for anything that they add or change.

 

If you're legitimately seeking assistance or guidance, then seriously, just try something different. The Knight seems more than suited for you. It sounds like exactly what you want. I would specifically suggest a Sentinel as you end up with similar kicking abilities, iconic Force attacks like Force Push, Blade Storm, in-combat stealth, and high damage as well as your Jedi fantasy. I've gotten to level twenty with my Guardian now and I can say that the story is much more interesting due to the higher amount of real interaction with other characters and cutscenes. I enjoy the Consular story, but it feels quite detached. With the Knight, you'll also get the ugly endgame gear that you so crave. The general consensus is that all the endgame (at least the PvP stuff) is fairly hideous regardless of faction or class. The Inquisitor gear actually makes me laugh at how dumb it looks.

 

You're not going to get attacks like Satele's because, unfortunately, this isn't KotOR III. BioWare has to curtail certain abilities in the name of class balance and the graphical restraints brought by the fact that this is an MMO. If BioWare makes a single-player game with great capabilities and without the crippling restriction of an MMO, then this thought would be more possible.

 

If you're not genuinely seeking assistance or guidance, then just give it a rest. Praise the Force that there are people on this thread giving you legitimate insight and trying to help you despite the fact that you insult them and just about completely ignore everything that they say. Your kind of comments and approach are what makes good people avoid the forums and flock to smaller, more controlled environments in which to talk about the game.

Edited January 22, 2012 by flyersfan

[Dyvim]

Yes

 

 

 

Play a Sage and use Disturbance.

 

 

 

Get over it or play a different class/game.

 

 

 

It means "get over it or play a different class/game." Troopers and Bounty Hunters have the "iconic" armour that you seem to be looking for. Bounty Hunters are conveniently unoriginal and look just like Calo Nord & Boba Fett. You can pursue that dream of looking like the been here done that characters of the past. As for gameplay, it sounds like you're looking for lots of flashy nonsense rather than the path of an ambassador.

 

 

 

Then don't play a Consular.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, yes.

 

It's obvious that nothing will please you. You are nitpicking about everything about the class, not taking any advice (JacenHallis - "then you're not listening, and you're dismissing arguments out of hand because they don't line up with your thinking"), and only repeating yourself. It looks like what you want is for BioWare to cancel the game, go back to the studio, and call you for your acceptance for anything that they add or change.

 

If you're legitimately seeking assistance or guidance, then seriously, just try something different. The Knight seems more than suited for you. It sounds like exactly what you want. I would specifically suggest a Sentinel as you end up with similar kicking abilities, iconic Force attacks like Force Push, Blade Storm, in-combat stealth, and high damage as well as your Jedi fantasy. I've gotten to level twenty with my Guardian now and I can say that the story is much more interesting due to the higher amount of real interaction with other characters and cutscenes. I enjoy the Consular story, but it feels quite detached. With the Knight, you'll also get the ugly endgame gear that you so crave. The general consensus is that all the endgame (at least the PvP stuff) is fairly hideous regardless of faction or class. The Inquisitor gear actually makes me laugh at how dumb it looks.

 

You're not going to get attacks like Satele's because, unfortunately, this isn't KotOR III. BioWare has to curtail certain abilities in the name of class balance and the graphical restraints brought by the fact that this is an MMO. If BioWare makes a single-player game with great capabilities and without the crippling restriction of an MMO, then this thought would be more possible.

 

If you're not genuinely seeking assistance or guidance, then just give it a rest. Praise the Force that there are people on this thread giving you legitimate insight and trying to help you despite the fact that you insult them and just about completely ignore everything that they say. Your kind of comments and approach are what makes good people avoid the forums and flock to smaller, more controlled environments in which to talk about the game.

 

Hate to break it to you , but you arent legitimate insight. Curtailing abilities has nothing to do with making jedi into shamans. Dont you think I have multiple characters in both factions??? I have been playing this game since last summers beta. I play a sage, The problem is disturbance, and force kinetic type attacks are not the basis of the class, junk/debris throwing is. That is the problem...GET IT? I love how the best people can come up with is "go play another class". How about we get this one to play, look, and feel like jedi first. Perhaps you should watch the movies again...

Edited January 22, 2012 by Dyvim

[Dyvim]

Then you're not listening, and you're dismissing arguments out of hand because they don't line up with your thinking.

 

No, I'm evaluating arguments. Believe me, I read them and think about them. But your arguments are unconvincing or wrong, like you cant get the basic physics right, or you dont get the basic canon right.

 

But I dont think its fair say I dismiss them flatly. Because I do pay attention to them. It is frustrating though when people go off and post without taking the time to at least read the thread. I am always looking for holes in my own arguments.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Dyvim

[Skoll]

So, OP, you're claiming that using telekinesis to propel objects is a Sith ability simply because we only saw Sith do so in the movies? What a ridiculous argument. Almost on the same level as claiming that nobody should be allowed to use orange color crystals since Vader was the only one using an orange lightsaber in the movies Edited January 22, 2012 by Skoll

[Dyvim]

So, OP, you're claiming that using telekinesis to propel objects is a Sith ability simply because we only saw Sith do so in the movies? What a ridiculous argument. Almost on the same level as claiming that nobody should be allowed to use orange color crystals since Vader was the only one using an orange lightsaber in the movies

 

Oh geesh. Seeing every Sith do it in the movies isnt enough for you? How about looking at the history of debris throwing in jedi games, all the way back to df2:JK, where they have ALWAYS been classified as a darkside ability/trait. There is absolutely nothing ridiculous about my argument, since my argument is based on the canon of the movies and the preponderance of the other available lore. Throwing debris is a typical sith attack. The only thing ridiculous is that you dont seem to grasp that basic concept. Perhaps watching the movies again will benefit you.

 

Let me give you a simple example. In the EU, light jedi have been known to use a version of lightning, called Electric Judgment. Now, basing jedi caster ranged attacks on debris throwing makes about as much sense as basing it on green lightning attacks. Have light jedi used it? Yes. Have light jedi, somewhere in the EU lore, thrown objects...yes, even once or twice in the movies. But Exar Kun wielded a blue lightsaber. If you look at the massive amount of EU lore out there you can find about anything, like a blue saberstaff wielding sith (Kun), lightning shooting light jedi, or a jawa jedi even...BUT you have to use a bit of common sense when you come up with the skills that you are going to BASE the class on, the skills that define the class, and set the theme for the class...

 

With consular/sage, and to a lesser extent shadow, they have been defined as a junk throwing class. That is clearly wrong for jedi. Disagree? Again, watch the movies. You dont base the jedi skillset on a traditionally sith move. Don't know how I can make it simpler. BTW Vader didnt use orange in the movies...

 

Even if jedi were junk throwers, which they arent, the animations in the game for junk throwing are still ridiculous. They are ignorant of the players environment, and they cause delays in damage for skills that are supposed to be instant. Or they just plain look ridiculous, like pebblestorm. But jedi arent junk throwers. So no need to bother "fixing" the junk throwing animations, they just need to be replaced.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Dyvim

[PaxSithari]

 

So your answer is green colored lightning, instead of purple colored lightning? For Sages to go full WoW Mage and throw the SW version of Arcane Blasts and Arcane Missiles instead of stones and debris?

 

If you look at the movies, again I quote Yoda: Knowledge And Defense, NEVER For Attack. Sages should be tanks and healers with NO Force-based DPS ability, not wielding the Force like space-wizards. Even in KOTOR, the light-side abilities were more buffing and defense, with neutral abilities like Force Wave for offense. Again, good for a movie or single-player game, terrible for an MMO.

 

Having said that I like Sage as space-mage, even with stone-throwing. Perhaps different animation based on the environment - for instance, Nar Shaddaa's debris would not be rock and dust, but papers and trash? Hoth could have snowballs and icicles flying at the opponent. Sound like a fair compromise?

[Achesoma]

I actually love hurling boulders at people with Project. Especially with the scrawny body type it looks especially awesome. Of course that's just personal preference. I agree pebble toss (telekinetic throw) animation looks horribly lame compared to force lightning.

 

As a Shadow, I would love to see some improvements aesthetically to gear. I think for Sage it's close to how it should be. Maybe just clean up some of the trim a bit so it doesn't have that ratty look.

[-Jedi-Logan-]

If you hate the armor so mucj OP grab your throttle and get into space combat, I got myself a full set of civilian pilot armour for my shadow and it looks hella boss, reminds me of the syo bakarn look.