BioWare: Here is what caused the faction imabalance and here is how you fix it.

[Bozse]

Any attempt to fix faction imbalance shouldn't include a damage increase, what you are suggesting would lead to multiple classes being able to kill any player within 2-3 globals and some even one shot.

 

While a health increase and even a healing increase on top of that would potentially work as a balancer for a unbalanced fight, adding damage on top of that stacks the odds in favor of the underdog. At the end of the day you can't tell what type of fights are going to happen and as such any non major group fight with the exact population ratio between the sides will be heavily in favor of the side with the buff.

 

Incentive to re-roll through XP boosts or even limited transfers with a long CD and similar ways is the way to go, combat buffs just ends up skewing things in horrible ways outside the the perfect ratio fights.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Bozse

[DarthRamette]

In every game the "bad side" is always more populated. You can't be evil in real life, because if you commit such acts you would be arrested or killed. Being on the dark side is a great escape, when someone talks back to you, you smack/shock/shoot them, and who wouldn't love to do that in real life?

 

Thank you, I so would but according to the law that is assault. I also played an Imperial in SWG as well. I tried the Jedi Consular story and dear god was it boring as all hell.

[VioletZero]

I think people put too much stock in the "Marketing favoring Empire" theory.

 

It's just that Empire classes are, well, cooler. Even before the first trailer was ever released, penny arcade made this:

 

http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/10/24

[GruntNaka]

It could also be because Bioware shows favoritism to empire when it comes to gameplay.

 

much like every MMO, the "Bad Guy" is always overpopulated.

 

^^^ This.

 

+To rip form Jim Butcher, its the Vader complex.

When the big bad scary guys are on your team its a psychological boost.

 

Sometimes its just more fun to be evil.

 

 

Combined with it being easier to get a grp for pve in a game with no good LFG system and its kind of a no brainer. Go where the masses are going to get a group.

 

 

Side comment, I rooted for the trooper who blew himself and the sith up myself.

Troopers, doing what has to be done to save the republic.

[Lugh]

this same thing happened in warhammer. given an anonymous medium, human beings will usually take the evil path. good and bad is the problem, WoW had pretty even factions (compared to this) and why? because playing through warcraft you could play as the horde, and guess what? they werent evil

 

Not evil? Necromantic zombies bent on world domination not evil? *** are you smoking?

 

The only not evil part of the Horde went MOO.

 

The rest were very to slightly evil.

[Ashanor]

If the Republic (or the Sith) are outnumbered by 100% or more in server population, or at least population on that world, they need to receive a buff that lets them compete. If there are 90 people on Ilum and 60 of them are Sith then the Republic classes need to be able to handle themselves literally in 2:1 encounters.

 

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is one of the stupidest things WoW ever did. That is not PvP. Faction imbalance is the nature of the beast, and it should remain the way it is.

 

The only thing that they should do is offer incentives to people who play Republic, such as +25-50% xp, valor, and warzone and mercenary commendations. That in itself, would help to balance the factions out. We don't need buffs that turn players into demigods, and I am a republic guildmaster and could take extreme advantage of this by the way. Give super buffs and Ilum becomes pretend PvP, just like Wintergrasp did. Although, WG was never really much PvP in the first place. Ilum is a true static PvP area, which just needs some work. Look to DAoC for ideas about RvR Bioware.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Ashanor

[KopakaNuva]

I'm currently on my first character in my first 'mainstream' MMO, and I picked a Trooper, because I figured they'd be a pretty rare pick.

I've engaged in a handful of PVP matches, mostly out of curiosity. There are about 3 Inquisitors for every other Empire class, and the main reason is lightning. People love being able to shoot lightning out of their fingers, and the powers deal far too much damage for far too little in terms of cost.

If possible, I think they should try to find a way to reduce the amount of damage lightning does in PVP. For instance, having some sort of resistance build up the more lightning powers are used on one target.

[chrses]

I am not disagreeing but not sure a buff would work. Even if the world is imbalanced what happens when 5 sith meet up against 5 republics and the republics have a buff? The republics will win outright and then the Sith players will cry foul.

 

I have come across this imbalance on PvE also. I have always wanted to play republic only but after my 15th loss in a row in warzones and running around in an almost empty world I rolled a bounty hunter to check out the other side. Well I was shocked. Around the PvP terminal there were 20 players and every where I go in PvE there are numerous groups running around.

 

Unfortunately I think with any game like this, once a side starts to tip over the edge, players jump ship because afterall we are playing an MMO to be with other players. So like a lot of players (i am guessing) I haven't logged in as republic for 2 weeks and happily playing away with my BH. Although I do feel slightly dirty for it.

[fungihoujo]

SW- only Empire class in the cinematics that actually defeats people of note- he defeats a jedi master fair and square in Decieved, and then defeats an exhausted jedi after outnumbering him. Despite being the only class shown in a positive light- is the LEAST PLAYED Empire class, making the assertation that Empire players all rolled that side to be like Malgus completely and utterly bogus- no question.

 

BH- is pretty, wears canon-looking Mando armour and kills some nobody soldiers

 

SI- worst showing for a class, defeats nobody, gets owned even though outnumbering his enemy, fails to stop a ship with his lightning and the trooper blasts him for it. Despite being the worst shown class with nothing in his favour- SI is the most popular class in the game according to Republic players... again, shows the assertation that the cinematics had anything to do with where people wanted to go was utterly and completely bogus. He dies like a pathetic worm.

 

IA- only class to not exist.

 

 

 

Compare now to Republic

 

JK- fights off not one, but two powerful sith on his own, dual wields with a double bladed saber- which lets face it looks pretty awesome. He defeats one of them before being exhausted and overwhelmed by Malgus. Sacrifices himself to save the Republic and his padawan in a way expected from a jedi.

 

JC- Satele is pretty, wears nice clothes, has a comic dedicated to her, has attitude- all in all, not a typical jedi but one that should appeal to most players. She's acrobatic, she can stop a light saber with her hands, she can blow up a mountain with the Force- she is pure awesome, to say otherwise is to be utterly ignorant. She flees a battle- but, in a manner much like Luke does from the Death Star- to fight another day and bring warning to the Republic... in fact, the similarities are extremely clear.

 

Trooper- well, he might be a bit dumb in his crazy charging, but, he's absolutely not a coward. He football tackles sith out of the way, he charges Malgus with a knife and later grenades himself and Malgus in the face. He is the charge in guns blazing type that CoD has made so popular, and there's really nothing that doesn't say 'patriotic BA' about him.

 

Smuggler- has the charm, the sexy outfit, he's the easiest on the eyes (from my outlook anyway), his guns are awesome, and he says the only things remotely humourous.

 

 

All in all- it is pretty obvious the Republic classes got way more love than any Imperial class except perhaps the SW... yet, the SW is the one class nobody is playing.

 

Can you explain why, if people identify so much with Malgus and want to be like him so much.... it's the least played class Empire side? Whereas the worst represented class- the SI who was ineffective and died pathetically after losing a 2v1 and proving that Empire needs superior numbers to stand a chance- gets the most numbers in the game?

 

 

Clearly your reasoning is incorrect.

[hargrave]

the only solution is cross server pvp. Theres no negative aspect to it. Im sure ill hear oh it will ruin the server communities and all this. Well we still dont have server forums (yes i know there coming) but at this point thats the only real concern. Its going to happen sooner or later. You cant make same faction open world pvp and bolstering and buffs will not solve the issue either.

[fungihoujo]

the only solution is cross server pvp. Theres no negative aspect to it. Im sure ill hear oh it will ruin the server communities and all this. Well we still dont have server forums (yes i know there coming) but at this point thats the only real concern. Its going to happen sooner or later. You cant make same faction open world pvp and bolstering and buffs will not solve the issue either.

 

There's not an issue with WZs though... so why would x-server pvp fix that? Also, if the complaint is Republic is outnumbered by Empire- adding multiple servers won't fix anything. The only way it'd fix things is if some servers were imbalanced one way and others the other.

 

There's a reason why x-server pvp didn't make queues any better on most WoW servers- my battlegroup, I could get a BG instantly on Alliance... and in about an hour on Horde- what problem was solved there exactly?

 

 

You put 50 servers together with a 5:1 Imperial to Republic ratio, what do you get?

 

A 5:1 Imperial to Republic ratio. THIS IS HOW RATIOS WORK! You don't make the total number considerably bigger and expect the ratio to magically change.

 

 

The only place that imbalance is a real concern is in world pvp- outside of Ilum imbalance couldn't matter even a touch- and with neutral GTN, both sides do share an economy.

[UjellyTrollicus]

Not evil? Necromantic zombies bent on world domination not evil? *** are you smoking?

 

The only not evil part of the Horde went MOO.

 

The rest were very to slightly evil.

actually the horde were the nice guys for most of wow.

 

thrall was a very peaceful person

 

the blood elves embraced the light at the end of BC

 

tauren are also very peaceful, even having alliances with the night elves by way of the druids

 

trolls do what the war chief says, and for most of the game that was thrall, who was a pretty nice guy.

 

forsaken werent so evil till cata.

 

the alliance was where the real ***** were, lore wise.

Edited January 20, 2012 by UjellyTrollicus

[_Ender__Wiggin_]

This is a very thoughtful post. Irrelevant, but really interesting to read.

 

Every mmo I've ever played in my life has a large "bad guy" or "evil" faction. It's usually larger than the good sides. People play mmo's as a form of escapism, often to get away from a reality that is a harsh one. It's fun to be a complete evil jerk and project power over things in video games. It's fun to say and do the things anonymously that one can't really say or do in real life.

 

I'm not really sure if there's any other answer then that.

 

It's up to a development firm to understand this and adjust the balance accordingly. Some games do it better than others.

[Ntranced]

I agree with your assessment of the cause but you left out one thing - playing Rep quests is HORRIBLE. Every other one seems to be "save the children!" or "save the poor fluffly bunny rabbits for me!". Jesus H Christ, I want to be republic to save the universe from Sith scum not be a poster girl for Amnesty International with a Hello Kitty backpack.

 

After 11 levels I rolled Sith, much more fun quests.

[Grendol]

Being an Imperial and then doing a Republic character I thought they threw a lot of work into the Republic. All the action in the beginning with the troopers and smugglers was well done and grabbed interest to me almost instantly. I would play Republic only if I hadn't started off as an IA but seriously the population is overall the players attitudes towards the game and I feel art and perception is huge in choices. The troopers are a HUGE picture in Star Wars and I know plenty of people jumping on Republic due to that. I also think they give the Republic a fair game of Winning in the cinematic's like Hope and all that. My big issue though is that we have too many girly boys or socially inept people playing that don't communicate to get things done... MMO's require the social part and numbers would show up if there was some actual guidance and support from the whole community on a server. All MMO's are great when they have a fun player base that communicates and guides one another. Just my two cents and hope we can all get along which I think BW wants to happen.

[Strathaczar]

Now this is the kind of post that I can get behind. It's positive, it shows the errors in a practical light, and it doesn't sound petty or rediculous and even throws out a solution that sounds viable.

 

I refrained from posting since yesterday because every post I ran into was a huge "end of the world" rant from everyone with unreasonable demands and the "threat" to quit the game. HOW is that helpful? HOW is that going to solve the issues at hand? In short, it's not.

 

The majority of people nowadays are so self-fulfilling that it's become such a huge problem. If you don't get your satisfaction, and you don't get it NOW, well, it's time to quit and spread the word that "this game sucks because of a, b, and c" all because of a bad experience.

 

ANYONE who thinks that a game should be 100% perfect right out of the box has clearly never written code before, or is just being unrealistic. I'm an MIS major and I've worked with Visual Basic, Java, and Web Design and have only designed small programs for school projects. To some people, this stuff is simple, and they just get it, but it's still HARD and TEDIOUS work. You can litterally put a semicolon in the wrong spot and your entire program will NOT work. Then you have to go through all that code and find the part that is wrong and fix it. Multiply that by MILLIONS of lines of code and trying to find the one area that is bugged.

 

People, you need to start being realistic and have some empathy. Put yourself in the devs shoes for one minute and think about things logically. Sure, there are problems out there that need to be fixed, but on the other hand the game has been out for 1 month. For everyone to expect perfection, and a bug free environment is simply being unrealistic. Please, for the love of god, give someone some time and chance to do things right. All these doom and gloom posts and threats of quitting are doing nothing but adding flames to the fire. They don't help, they don't solve the issues at hand, and you're just ruining the experience for other people.

 

If in six months to a year things are still as they are now, then your complaints (in my opinion of course) would be very well founded, and I would hold no ill will for anyone that feels the need to quit at that point...

 

But after a month... cmon. Stop jumping the gun and acting like this is the end of the world, because it's clearly not.

[Skillzdatkill]

This is a good post. The buff would work well in open pvp worlds such as ILUM. A good example would be WOW and what they did with wintergrasp. When one faction would outnumber the other then the faction with less people would receive a buff to balance out the combat. I would like to see this buff ONLY on ILUM for the pvp quests.

[Barycentre]

They could implement a kind of tenacity buff for ilum depending of how big the difference of number of players is, like in the wintergrasp in wow; that means they are 200 imperial and 50 rep in ilum, republics gain a 300% buff increasing hitpoints, heals and damage (for instance)

[Barycentre]

This is a good post. The buff would work well in open pvp worlds such as ILUM. A good example would be WOW and what they did with wintergrasp. When one faction would outnumber the other then the faction with less people would receive a buff to balance out the combat. I would like to see this buff ONLY on ILUM for the pvp quests.

 

didnt see this, sorry, thats what i meant^^

[Rothnang]

I agree that the way Bioware handles the story of the game is absolutely to blame for the problems with faction imbalance.

 

Instead of actually presenting Republic vs. Empire the way it was meant to be in Starwars, (you know, where the Sith are evil) they made the entire story out to be this ridiculous tale of how the heroic, Sith are destroying the stuffy and corrupt establishment.

 

What the F Bioware? Seriously? You took a Scifi analogy to the evil of fascism and made it into the faction people find more appealing than the one that stands for freedom and democracy. At the very best that just means your writers are incompetent, at the very worst it means they are deliberately propagandizing these philosophies.

[Niconogood]

This is a good idea, but it is stupid in its practicality. Don't ever assume you know what players will think or do.

 

In my opinion, if I see that the Reps are taking on Sith 1:3 with these buffs, I'll either wait until there are more Reps on Ilum, or I'll do WZs. I'm not gonna get ganked 1v1 by super Reps.

 

Aaaaand that would solve the problem. Case closed. Implement asap please.

[fungihoujo]

I agree that the way Bioware handles the story of the game is absolutely to blame for the problems with faction imbalance.

 

Instead of actually presenting Republic vs. Empire the way it was meant to be in Starwars, (you know, where the Sith are evil) they made the entire story out to be this ridiculous tale of how the heroic, Sith are destroying the stuffy and corrupt establishment.

 

What the F Bioware? Seriously? You took a Scifi analogy to the evil of fascism and made it into the faction people find more appealing than the one that stands for freedom and democracy. At the very best that just means your writers are incompetent, at the very worst it means they are deliberately propagandizing these philosophies.

 

So basically your complaint is that for the first time ever, the Sith actually have depth like the Republic does.

 

The Republic was shown to have corruption in it quite extensively- say, for example, the Grand Chancellor- he didn't seem to be doing things for the Republic's good. TCW and the prequel trilogy both show a Republic that isn't shining in all areas... BUT, still keeps some hope in certain areas like the jedi. Same here- there's corruption on both sides, there's heroes on both sides, there's evil and good on both sides.

 

 

The Sith writers just did a good job at making the dark side more than 2 dimensional 'hate everyone, betray people, power power power, smash smash smash'. Try to Imp quests- you can be a heartless monster quite easily, you don't have to be noble and trying to protect the galaxy- that's for light side sithers only really- because they allowed both sides to be light or dark.

 

Did they not allow Republic to make villianous choices? To be rude? To be corrupt? I've had choices to give away credits as an Imp, and others to extort or threaten for them.

 

Complaining that BW had the audacity to allow Imps to have the same choices that Republic had rather than saying 'no, you sith, you smash' is one of the reasons why BW is known for its layered story telling...

 

 

Which, in all fairness I do concede doesn't go all that well with the SW- black and white, 2 dimensional heroes and villians and cheesy story telling- so perhaps BW was the wrong company and Lucas should have had Blizz tell the story and BW made Mass Effect Online instead.

[Niconogood]

They could implement a kind of tenacity buff for ilum depending of how big the difference of number of players is, like in the wintergrasp in wow; that means they are 200 imperial and 50 rep in ilum, republics gain a 300% buff increasing hitpoints, heals and damage (for instance)

 

It makes sense. Of course 3 reps would oneshot a sith, but then again, they would have the numbers to do the same. The sith are already equivalent of a zerg swarm, They would just need to get their collective hivemind together and they would still win. It would just be more challenging.

 

These suggested changes could actually save the game.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Niconogood

[Rothnang]

Adding Depth to a faction and making a totalitarian regime that commits casual genocide seem like the good guys are entirely different things.

 

Face it, absolutely everything in SWTOR says: "The republic is corrupt, complacent, internally divided and weak" and "The sith are strong, united, brilliant and fighting against the system"

 

It's an utterly ridiculous paradigm shift from what StarWars was originally about.

 

SWTOR makes no effort to ever ask the player "Would you rather support the faction that kills billions of people on a planet to test a weapon or the faction that doesn't?" rather it asks questions like "Would you rather support the faction that is ruled by squabbling delegates that get nothing done or the faction with a strong decisive leader?"

 

It constantly biases everything to show the Republic in the worst light and the Sith in the best.

[UjellyTrollicus]

I agree that the way Bioware handles the story of the game is absolutely to blame for the problems with faction imbalance.

 

Instead of actually presenting Republic vs. Empire the way it was meant to be in Starwars, (you know, where the Sith are evil) they made the entire story out to be this ridiculous tale of how the heroic, Sith are destroying the stuffy and corrupt establishment.

 

What the F Bioware? Seriously? You took a Scifi analogy to the evil of fascism and made it into the faction people find more appealing than the one that stands for freedom and democracy. At the very best that just means your writers are incompetent, at the very worst it means they are deliberately propagandizing these philosophies.

 

they didn't want sith to be generic bad guys. they used some quote about how not all imperials get up in the morning and eat their evil pancakes with a cup of evil coffee. they made the empire a more grey area, they also made the republic more grey as well.

 

it makes for better stories on both sides.

 

people are always attracted to the "bad" faction, even if they arent actually the bad ones, like it wow for instance, up until cata the horde were actually the good guys amazingly enough, sure they killed some people, and cut down some forests, but apart from the forsaken the horde was a much nicer faction than the alliance was lore wise.