Post 1.1 Ilum PVP Issues Discussion

[marcustk]

Yeah... look...

 

I dealt with the black hole of infinite memory suckage on Taris.

I took the quest bugs preventing progression in the game on the chin.

I defended the "lack" of features, trying to look to the future.

I played what PvP there is in Warzones and while leveling up.

I realized my class was clunky and a turret; I dealt with it.

I sighed and shrugged my shoulders at the empty world on Republic side.

I facepalmed and reported the botters and exploiters.

 

But ... this ...

 

Empire POV:

Republic POV:

 

... **** that noise.

 

No way. Nope. On top of everything else? Just no.

 

Sub cancelled.

[BlackBaronUK]

Some folks acting like this is the end of the world. Bloody relax. It's one zone in one game.

[Kroktar]

Design Notes - Game Update 1.1

01.18.2012 - Today we are releasing our first major joke.

[Grewvin]

Do people even bother reading any comments? Everyone seems to be completely ignoring the fact that turrets do not give valor and just spewing the same crap like "CANCELLED" or "broken game". Get a grip people.

 

So watch the vid on the first post and tell me its not a broken game..

[Trevalion]

so what have we learned from this?

 

pvp stats are a bad idea.

 

tying pvp stats into a vertical progression is a worse idea.

 

having vertical progression based on a two faction system where there WILL ALWAYS BE POPULATION IMBALANCE IS A TERRIBLE IDEA.

 

i thought you guys would have learned this from WAR? or did you decide, in your arrogance that you could do a better job of managing the same problems? did you think that regardless of all the evidence against what you tried to achieve, that you could simply get away with making the same mistakes and saying "it's okay, it'll work this time"?

 

 

 

rant over.

 

and now to finding solutions:

1. remove expertise as of right now. bring all servers down for one hour, remove it from the game until you can find a better use for it.
   
2. whilst the servers are down, rollback all valor on all servers gained after 2am (when the servers went down for maintenance).
   
3. remove valor from everything except player kills.
   
4. add a scaling valor bonus for underdog factions, it should be additive, and cap at 400% bonus for being outnumbered by 4:1 or greater, and start at 25% bonus for being outnumbered by 1.25:1, this should apply to ilum only.
   
5. on pvp servers, remove the ability to roll characters on both factions. if a player has characters on both factions already they must delete one faction before being allowed to log into the game.
   
6. add a +100% valor bonus (additive) to the underdog faction on any server.
   

 

this should give underdog players a sufficient incentive (valor wise) to stay in the fight and keep playing, with a total of 900% valor bonus if they are:

• out numbered on their server
  
• out numbered by 4:1 or greater in ilum
  
• control all of the ilum objectives
  

 

hopefully this won't get lost in the firestorm that is this thread...

 

 

Excellent suggestions. I hope someone is listening.

[MGoetter]

valor NEEDS a rollback

[Magnesium]

Wow, what a dumb dumb move by BW.

 

First thing I did was change my 6month subscription to a 1 month recurring, so thankfully payment wasn't taken yet and I was able to change that, if this is what Illum is going to be like then I can see many players not sticking around for that.

[Crosswind]

Something i noticed is its just the republic QQing about this because we occupied there base on illum for the last couple of hours.

 

Guess what it wasn't "Easy" we had multiple ops running with actual teamwork. Something i havn't seen since this game came out. Republic players and the rest of the QQ ppl need to learn if you don't want to get farmed learn to play.

 

Hey guys! Don't worry! It's not broken because zerging people takes skill. What with all the /invite and "Hey, go to the Republic base" and then pressing the 1 key repeatedly...I mean, I get exhausted just writing all that let alone doing it. I guess I'll just never know the dedication, and coordination that's involved in such a nuanced style of gameplay as this. Better just quit now if ******es like DarthGraveyard are running around.

[Auxili]

A lot? ALL republic customers I think. First of all, Mirror classes? where? they got an advantage on ALL skill animations. Second... Republic side questing = + - 20-30 people on map, imperials 100.

Third this great pvp patch.

 

I think only role playing republic players will play this game. GG devs.

 

 

Yup. I've unsubbed last night for general issues regarding how Bioware heavily favours the Empire side in most aspects of the game's design (especially class abilities) and refuses to make a statement or acknowledge our feedback on these issues. Ignoring PTR feedback continuously just seals the deal.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Auxili

[Yogurt]

The aoe spam in illum is really difficult for the melee classes as well to get valor. Either get rid of the automatic target closes enemey while range is spaming a button or make them force to target. Also We had a 10 to 1 outnumbering on Vulkar Highway. There is way more imperials to rebel.

[HanSollo]

Well make all Republics have 200k hp and give them a 35m AOE that does 20k dmg

do this for an hour then roll back everything.

 

That is all

[kckkryptonite]

Ban everyone exploiting the turrets. Remove their valor from today. And fire the damn pvp devs...

 

This +1. (The devs play Empire!)

Edited January 18, 2012 by kckkryptonite

[pathologie]

On Illum You need guards within the bases so the opposing team can't GY camp. Fix the lag issues in the zone, Rollback valor for today.

 

In general, you need to work on the Republic (mechanics, gear looks, everything) to get more people to play republic.

[vrgadin]

i never have played wow, and alway made fun of those that did......im considering trying it out at this point.

[Alessja]

Greetings from Germany, Bioware is so *insert random rude language here*

[DarkeGBF]

Just instance Ilum. With equal numbers it might actually be somewhat fun, but with the faction imbalance good luck getting Republic players to ever go there once they realize how outnumbered they are.

[Sirauq]

My question is, why wasn't anyone pitching this fit on the public test server?

[NeoTaintedAngel]

And so the most vocal of gamers have taken to the forums to spam things like, "QUITTING" or "LOL GG BIOWARE". This thread is to outline potential issues and the discussions therein. You idiots spamming, "CANCELED SUB" really don't do anything to further the discussion.

 

That said, I think the Ilum issues need to be sorted out asap. Not in a week, not over the weekend but as soon as they conceivably can. There's nothing they can do to address the server imbalances in population for the factions. If anyone played Warcraft back in the classic-era, they'll know that the Horde was often outnumbered at least three to one, it was extremely rare to have a server where the population was anything approaching equal because everyone wanted to be a "pretty" race. In this instance, people want to be shocking fools with lightning with their "unlimited power".

 

I am not sure how they can address this issue aside from making the Consular and Knight much more flashy. But that is something which might take time.

 

Time is primary word here. I think.

 

This patch could have used more time and likewise, this game will take more time to reach its full potential. People overlook this constantly and the most we, as a playerbase, can do is offer up constructive criticism and ideas. Will they be heeded? Maybe. Maybe not. But that's all we can do. That will be what determines the longevity of this game, however. Anyone who recalls beta testing WoW or even being involved in the early life cycle of that game can recall how deaf the developers were to the playerbase. It wasn't until later when the channels of communication were opened when more and more people took a serious look into PvP. (Post PvP bot grinding for Warlord/Grand Marshal)

 

TL : DR - Things take time and this is a discussion thread, please use it as such.

Edited January 18, 2012 by NeoTaintedAngel

[Nisa]

so no official anything yet? i don't want to get mad until i actually know what's happening and i don't care to read thru all the crap

[Navimygator]

I love how whenever there is a hot issue they make one thread so no one will bother to read any of it and just shut down all the others.

[maradigamer]

Okay, in case no one mentioned this as a possible solution:

 

Cap number of each faction that can be in any one instance of Ilum. Fill each instance before opening a new one.

 

Republic might stand a chance, at least on servers where enough of them pvp.

[AaploXE]

afk near buddies, get 3 free pvp levels in 10 minutes, finish daily, wait for weekly and the 4 or 5 more pvp levels .

 

How dumb is this ?????

How the hell could someone actually propose this as a solution to ilum. Guess you could be level 60 pvp in 2 or 3 days. Lame ... really lame.

Way to kill a game with already a lot of problems not solved.

[Kuvox]

Something i noticed is its just the republic QQing about this because we occupied there base on illum for the last couple of hours.

 

Guess what it wasn't "Easy" we had multiple ops running with actual teamwork. Something i havn't seen since this game came out. Republic players and the rest of the QQ ppl need to learn if you don't want to get farmed learn to play. There was a couple times the republic actually pushed us out of the base. thats why we had 3 ops that was communicating with each-other. learn from this and move on. I have alot of screen shots that prove the numbers wern't super unbalanced. we just had better teamwork which is why we S&Med you guys.

 

Simple, don't try and fix something thats not broken, learn to play a game the way REAL hard corps players do, not "Dev's plz carry us"

 

During the past few hr's that i was in illum doing this stuff (on the swiftsure) we had the 3 top skilled (Sry Zerg don't mean u have skill) guilds working together to beat you....... which is how it should be.

 

 

EDIT: Turrets Give ZERO valor. This has been confirmed and i will probably post a screenshot after work.

 

Ummm....So I just watched my brother's guild of 15 level 50s try to retake the Republic base on Ilum. Although each departed within 3 seconds of each other, they all arrived 1-by-1 which greatly limited their chances of forming any sort of strategy that you seem to call for. My bro was instantly stunned, electrocuted, and dead within 3 seconds, as was all but two of the guild. In other words, what you're doing isn't strategy, it's an exploit. I'm not saying the Republic wouldn't do the same thing, b/c they would, but you're taking advantage of something that has nothing to do with PVP skill.

[Yourfacehi]

Well make all Republics have 200k hp and give them a 35m AOE that does 20k dmg

do this for an hour then roll back everything.

 

That is all

 

lol /signed

[LordTridus]

Quoted because most of these are good ideas. Fixing this problem ASAP is very important, even if it means a short server downtime.

 

Pop imba has always been a problem but this really highlights it. There are a lot of ways to deal with pop imba, including: valor incentives to get a higher % of the underdog faction into the open world zone; hard or soft zone caps that keep the number of players on each side roughly similar; scaling buffs to NPCs in the area to give assistance to underdog factions a chance; scaling PC buffs to give underdogs more power directly. In the long run I think that valor buffs might be the most useful.

 

Hard or soft caps essentially turn it into a warzone... which is pretty much the only thing that fixes this in the end. Open world PvP does not work when populations are severely out of whack.

 

Numbers matter. People saying "oh it's your fault because we have 3 organized ops"... yeah that's nice. 3 ops vs 1 op is going to win every time no matter how organized the 1 op is.

 

I don't know why game designers make this same mistake in every game. If you don't control for population in the battle and one side severely outnumbers the other, then the whole thing falls apart.