Sobakozoid Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Is it a balance when you take 10K damage in 5sec while you are laying on the ground? Is it right when one of this decide to harass only you throughout the match and you have nothing to do with it? If it is a dps concentrated class with stealth why they wear MED armor? Where the hell their penalties from having so huge and fast killing burst? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InquisitorJorus Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 No they dont. Their burst needs to be lowered, and their steady damage needs to be increased. Without that knockdown burst combination they do, they're not that great in pvp on the whole. and of course they're going to go for inquis / consulars. We have low armour, ergo the maximum damage potential. I do agree their burst is a little too high in PvP at the moment, but a thread with a title like that just seems to be you angry that one enjoyed decorating the walls with your intestines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrangos Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) From what i hear most of the burst is caused by stacking consumables and powerups which is getting nerfed next patch. OP/Scoundrel burst will probably not be the same... I'd wait till post 1.1 to call nerfs since without stacking they will run outta steam very quickly before a kill. Edited January 16, 2012 by Scrangos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfryder Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 No, Im gonna call nerf. Sorry if you guys can't recognize how lame it is to get knocked down and killed before you can even get up. People have abused this setup constantly and its gonna get nerfed. I watch people leave left and right just because one ops guy is in the game. Thats just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannythefool Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Sorry if you guys can't recognize how lame it is to get knocked down and killed before you can even get up. Yeah, that doesn't really happen though unless you have a gear advantage and are using the stacking exploit. That's getting fixed tomorrow, though; after 1.1, no stacking overcharge + warzone buff + other adrenals. Without this, a scoundrel/operative who solo kills you in a warzone is pretty much out of options after that. So you may die, but so will he once your buddies catch on. If they don't, well, don't blame the scoundrel/operative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teabaker Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Na, they rather will get buffed. They have nothing outside of her Burst. Also after they nerf the Consumables they won't hit that hard anymore. Also you don't have to consider more than the damage: Utility. Guariands/Juggernaut have Guard, Force Push, Charge and Taunt. What exactly does a Scoundrel have? Marauder/Sentinel have crazy Group Buffs (15% Damage, Run speed) and Charge. What exactly do Operatives and Scoundrel have? AE Stealth. Edited January 16, 2012 by Teabaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tindin Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 yes do it because some random person got rolled by one.......they dont all hit like that 100% of the time...and i bet if you did that damage you would be more like look at my big *** numbers not nerf (insert job) because i owned some guy with my big *** hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Gallows Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) No, Im gonna call nerf. Sorry if you guys can't recognize how lame it is to get knocked down and killed before you can even get up. People have abused this setup constantly and its gonna get nerfed. I watch people leave left and right just because one ops guy is in the game. Thats just stupid. It's not more lame than getting knocked back into flames, or someone in a bubble so you can't hurt them, or people behind cover that you can't hit or... ****... stop it already. I have ZERO issues with any class in PvP. Get to 50 and get some decent gear. They are tweaking the consumables and if they get that right the game will be balanced. The only class that I get killed by a lot is the sorcs, but considering how often I kill them it's not an issue. Sorcs can dish out insane damage at range and you just can't get away from them. But it's fine, because I can see that lightning from far away and plan accordingly. NEVER have I been completely owned by an operative/scoundrel. Yes they have killed me when I have been low on health had my defensives on CD. But NEVER have I seen an operative who went around killing left and right with ease, like I do on my BH or I see juggernauts, marauders, sorcs etc. do. Yes they may get a few kills here and there where people feel helpless. But you people blow a few deaths way out or proportions just because it hurt your ego a bit. I don't want any classes nerfed. I want to keep all the CC, because it mixes up the game so it isn't a stale and boring health grind. NEVER have I thought "I get CC'ed all the time waaaaahhh", because I don't. Neither do you or anyone else and if you say so you're just being a cry baby to be honest. Yes once in a while I get ganged up on and die in a lock... once or twice per match if I am unlucky, but certainly not every match and not even once in every 20 deaths. It's not a problem, so stop whining about it, to make this game a boring slow health grind. Edited January 16, 2012 by Mr_Gallows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyrandis Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) No, Im gonna call nerf. Sorry if you guys can't recognize how lame it is to get knocked down and killed before you can even get up. People have abused this setup constantly and its gonna get nerfed. I watch people leave left and right just because one ops guy is in the game. Thats just stupid. If you got killed during the knockdown one of these conditions apply. A. You're Low Level and he's 50. B. You're below 1/2 Health. C. You're poorly geared and he isn't. D. He was Biochem and Had the +15% Expertise buff+Adrenal+15% Expertise Consumable+ Stimm'd+Gear and got 3 lucky crits in a row(we're talking <10% chance to pull all three off). Yeah so ~40-45% expertise + Adrenal + Stim + relic for Surge assuming he's geared. And yes it all stacks until the 1.1 patch. E. All of the above. And please watch this, OP/Scoundrel's aren't the only ones hitting hard. Condition D is a problem for every class. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHuwPm6aDhs&context=C374f9e1ADOEgsToPDskJYnUsoKQ61XySqqL2wnbqK ^ Thats one of my guildies. Edit: Oh of course I imagine you'll say its staged in your paranoia. Even with all the same buff she stacks my Scoundrel couldn't do that nearly as often as she does. Edited January 16, 2012 by Kyrandis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfocus Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=183980 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldrjth Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) yes. their opener needs to brought down to sane levels considering its a fairly long disable too, and their sustained dmg output increased to offset some of this penalty. you can compare an operatives survivability versus dps to that of a dps sorc. IF a sorc is out dps'ed by an operative then an operatives CANNOT have better armour/protection and survivability which is currently the case. a sorc will NEVER break 400k dmg in a warzone with maxxed gear while operatives/merc do that regularly. putting stealth + medium armour on an operative is ridiculous tbh and provides too much dmg mitigation and death avoidance, if someone does happen to survive their initial burst. they also need to fix the stealth exploits in PvP that allow one to cap objectives while stealthed, this ruins 2 of the 3 fricken maps. Edited January 16, 2012 by eldrjth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teabaker Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) yes. their opener needs to brought down to sane levels considering its a fairly long disable too, and their sustained dmg output increased to offset some of this penalty. you can compare an operatives survivability versus dps to that of a dps sorc. IF a sorc is out dps'ed by an operative then an operatives CANNOT have better armour/protection and survivability which is currently the case. a sorc will NEVER break 400k dmg in a warzone with maxxed gear while operatives/merc do that regularly. putting stealth + medium armour on an operative is ridiculous tbh and provides too much dmg mitigation and death avoidance, if someone does happen to survive their initial burst. they also need to fix the stealth exploits in PvP that allow one to cap objectives while stealthed, this ruins 2 of the 3 fricken maps. Hae? I top 400k damage easily as Sage. Nearly every game if it isn't extremely one sided. Also you have no fu.cking clue. You cant just compare Armor vs Armor and Damage vs Damage. This isn't chess or Yu gi oh cards. This game have different classes. You have as Sage a strong Slow, Shield, Sprint, Knock Back. Did you consider those? No. Like really, this post is so dumb and wrong i can't stand it. Edited January 16, 2012 by Teabaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldrjth Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) post screenshots. I highly doubt it. I have rakata adrenals/stims/purple relic/matrix relic and over 1600 willpower/33%crit chance/+86%crit dmg/+7.5%activation and 5 champions gear with a dps setup of 2/21/18 and against clueless noobs get just 300k dmg. you cant do 33% more dmg than my setup with your sage counterpart (considering a sage is slightly inferior). Edited January 16, 2012 by eldrjth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfocus Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=183980 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zizzefex Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 post screenshots. I highly doubt it. I have rakata adrenals/stims/purple relic/matrix relic and over 1600 willpower/33%crit chance/+86%crit dmg/+7.5%activation and 5 champions gear with a dps setup of 2/21/18 and against clueless noobs get just 300k dmg. you cant do 33% more dmg than my setup with your sage counterpart (considering a sage is slightly inferior). Somehow I don't believe a word you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BegaTasty Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) If your dieing to a stealther, its your fault. You shouldn't be alone, where is your tank "guarding" you...Or your just being a lone ranger is my guess. Its a burst damage class, they are MEANT to go after you... Dont blame others because you dont want to group up, an wanna play lone ranger. As you are trying to make things sound as bad as possible, I will just let people know who may not... ONLY level 50 in pvp gear is going to do such damage, an even then its only on a critical hit. I have been attacked by plenty of non pvp geared Scoundrels an either kicked them to death, or made them so frustrated they run away... As a guardian also In world pvp I am guarding my healer friend as we should be doing... Edited January 16, 2012 by BegaTasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyou Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Is it a balance when you take 10K damage in 5sec while you are laying on the ground? Is it right when one of this decide to harass only you throughout the match and you have nothing to do with it? If it is a dps concentrated class with stealth why they wear MED armor? Where the hell their penalties from having so huge and fast killing burst? I am sniper, 56 valor. So one of the prefered vicitms and yet I have no problem with scoundrels. You ask why? Because I stay with my group when my defense and trinket cooldowns are up. To do 10k dammage they have to use 3 cosumables and most of their abilities. If they catch you alone, with no defense cooldown available and with no consumable you can use yourself (healpack dude?) you deserve to die. Seriously, leanr to play.... As soon as you notice there is a stealth class in the warzone adept your playstyle instead of asking the developpers to make the game easier for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heguo Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The core of the class is picking a fight the Scoundrel/Op believes he can win. You feel like you're getting destroyed because something you're doing has identified you to him as a fight with odds in his favor. You might be lower level, you might be a squishy class, it might be something else. Picking off weak targets is what this class is designed for. This class type generates a lot of nerf attention because when he chooses to fight (if the player is thinking) he'll probably destroy whatever he was going after very quickly. He looks unbalanced because, and this is the key, he's choosing unbalanced fights. It's not possible to take the power to choose the fight away from the stealth classes without completely gutting them. If one of them is ruining your night, you've got to figure out why he's identified you as a weak target and counter that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BegaTasty Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The core of the class is picking a fight the Scoundrel/Op believes he can win. You feel like you're getting destroyed because something you're doing has identified you to him as a fight with odds in his favor. You might be lower level, you might be a squishy class, it might be something else. Picking off weak targets is what this class is designed for. This class type generates a lot of nerf attention because when he chooses to fight (if the player is thinking) he'll probably destroy whatever he was going after very quickly. He looks unbalanced because, and this is the key, he's choosing unbalanced fights. It's not possible to take the power to choose the fight away from the stealth classes without completely gutting them. If one of them is ruining your night, you've got to figure out why he's identified you as a weak target and counter that. Well stated, its the Scoundrels job to kill squishy's. When you die its 100% your fault. dont leave the group,get the tank to guard you,an always use your consumables.... Stop blaming others because you dont want to play your class it its utmost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gartzen Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Self explanatory: If this is intended, ppl will leave the game very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobakozoid Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Seriously, leanr to play.... As soon as you notice there is a stealth class in the warzone adept your playstyle instead of asking the developpers to make the game easier for you. Oh really?! The game is already easier for them now. I only ask to remove that. BTW each day i saw more and more new operatives and scoundrels. Lots of them. Ask yourself why people set aside their old not caped chars and start new ones as smuggler or agent. Self explanatory: If this is intended, ppl will leave the game very soon. THIS ! Edited January 16, 2012 by Sobakozoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BegaTasty Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) that vid is fake, its a setup, you will notice before the guy attacked he had no gear on... then it flashed again... Dont try an state things as fact mate until you know... what beats me, si they demand a class be gutted because they dont want to play their class right way. Then when that one si ruined, they will move on to complaining an spamming forums with dire warnings of the game imploding unless they are taken notice of... THE CLASS IS MEANT TO KILL CLOTHIES... quite seriously, learn how to play your class correctly, an understand that if your alone, your vulnerable. Remember any stealther can be seen when he gets close enough, an then attacked. IF your in a group an yous tick close, your not as vulnerable. Edited January 16, 2012 by BegaTasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldrjth Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Also you have no fu.cking clue. You cant just compare Armor vs Armor and Damage vs Damage. This isn't chess or Yu gi oh cards. This game have different classes. You have as Sage a strong Slow, Shield, Sprint, Knock Back. Did you consider those? No. Like really, this post is so dumb and wrong i can't stand it. I missed this part of your post considering the ridiculousness (and unsubstantiated claim) of your opening sentence. THE primary functions of a dps class is to do dmg/kill opponents and not perish. the utility value you mention is minor compared to the devastation a properly equipped operative is able to bring. they can single handedly eliminate the opposition number 1 player which turns the tide of battle in their teams favor. a team of 2 operatives working in tandem is an unstoppable force that even an equally geared tank cannot survive even if supported by healer. THIS is why they are unbalanced. while they prob lack the utility of the sorc they have in spades far greater tools, such as stealth/armour and dmg. So its you who has NO FRICKEN clue. Edited January 16, 2012 by eldrjth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teabaker Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I missed this part of your post considering the ridiculousness (and unsubstantiated claim) of your opening sentence. THE primary functions of a dps class is to do dmg/kill opponents and not perish. the utility value you mention is minor compared to the devastation a properly equipped operative is able to bring. they can single handedly eliminate the opposition number 1 player which turns the tide of battle in their teams favor. a team of 2 operatives working in tandem is an unstoppable force that even an equally geared tank cannot survive even if supported by healer. THIS is why they are unbalanced. while they prob lack the utility of the sorc they have in spades far greater tools, such as stealth/armour and dmg. So its you who has NO FRICKEN clue. Nope. To the Vid above: My Guardian friend does the same. Edited January 16, 2012 by Teabaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BegaTasty Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I missed this part of your post considering the ridiculousness (and unsubstantiated claim) of your opening sentence. THE primary functions of a dps class is to do dmg/kill opponents and not perish. the utility value you mention is minor compared to the devastation a properly equipped operative is able to bring. they can single handedly eliminate the opposition number 1 player which turns the tide of battle in their teams favor. a team of 2 operatives working in tandem is an unstoppable force that even an equally geared tank cannot survive even if supported by healer. THIS is why they are unbalanced. while they prob lack the utility of the sorc they have in spades far greater tools, such as stealth/armour and dmg. So its you who has NO FRICKEN clue. Your still ignoring the simple an basic facts, of people refusing to learn how to counter things. How hard is it to stay in a group an attack them whent hey get close. even a max geared op can be seen when hes close. But no, its better to nerf a class into the ground because you dont like people being able to kill you, an forcing you to learn. Funny as even as far back as DAOC when we had classes that make an OP/scoundrel look like a fairy. 1 single BoneDancer in DAOC, could take on 10 enemy at once, an win. Yet we learned how to counter them..... I assure you tor has nothing REMOTELY equaling any class in DAOC's power levels. One last time so you might actually get it, the class is built to kill cloth wearers, they are NOT invulnerable, an can be killed easy once seen. Your tanks have an AOE mez, teach them to use it. Teach your guardian to Guard you, an most of all. Pay attention yourselves an dont blame others for your deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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