mrcjevans Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 nerfed in pvp to bring it inline? rather than other classes im curious what you guys think yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steinsgate Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Wait for biochem/adrenal stacking nerf, then see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangnz Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 If Ops get nerfed they need buffing at the same time. Concealment Ops atm only have burst they can't sustain for **** or burst for **** outside of that initial pop out of stealth. They are fairly meh on the survivability front I actually have more problems surviving an sith assassin or jedi shadow than an conceal operative/scoundrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obbu Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 biochem nerf + 50 bracket first, then will decide Anything that effects the baseline class is a step in the wrong direction, the other two specs do not need nerfs, thats for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedricshots Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Wouldnt make sense to nerf the class since the class itself isnt broken. Its the abuse of biochem thats inflating numbers and making people scream "OP". The best solution is to just make biochem not usable in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcjevans Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Wouldnt make sense to nerf the class since the class itself isnt broken. Its the abuse of biochem thats inflating numbers and making people scream "OP". The best solution is to just make biochem not usable in pvp. Oh really, what in biochem exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obbu Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Lots of people are running around with pvp gear, expertise multiplier consumable, stat adrenal, pvp clicky stat bonus and so on all at the same time. That combined with the pvp gear vs undergeared levelers is making bolster seem completely broken. Not just OPs are one shotting people, we have juggernauts hitting 9k aoe damage single attacks, we have shadows 10k with a few procs firing off together. Once we take those out of the mix, we'll be able to adequately judge whether classes are individually broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griefa Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 1) Nerf biochem (done). 2) Convert the Hidden Strike knockdown into an interrupt and a 4 second root. 3) Reduce the damage from Acid Blade/Hidden Strike by at least 15% PvP rank 55 operative. Yes, it's broken and imbalanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Propheta Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 4) convert the class in barman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasith Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 1) Nerf biochem (done). 2) Convert the Hidden Strike knockdown into an interrupt and a 4 second root. 3) Reduce the damage from Acid Blade/Hidden Strike by at least 15% PvP rank 55 operative. Yes, it's broken and imbalanced. Only versus people with way worse PvP gear than you have. Yes, the burst hurts, but if I duel people I know to have approximately the same expertise as me I don't break 5k HS without stacking biochem buffs. I agree the 3 sec knockdown on HS is a bit over the top, but if that's nerfed to a root AB needs to be applied from Shiv as well or we'll be nerfed to impotence. We're extremely reliant on the burst, or having to count on the opponent having shoddy gear. I say wait and see what happens when you can no longer stack adrenals and buffs, as well as moving the lowbies out of our bracket. Operatives with a lot of Expertise will still deal insane bursts to players without Expertise, but the reverse is also true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maestruljedi Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I just can't wait for the 50-only bracket so people will face more balanced opponenets. Then we'll talk about nerfs. Even so, you can nerf Concealment to the ground. Then you can nerf Lethality to the ground. I will still kill people that can't adapt or learn their class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velr Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 1: Stop talking about 1on1 balance in a game that isn't about 1on1 pvp. 2: Stop talking about PvP-Balance as long as there is no "50 only" bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macheath Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 They definitely need to look at biochem, and stacking buffs in general, before they nerf any class right now. Almost every class has a huge alpha strike, and it's largely buffs that make these abilities overpowered in the first place. Second, the devs need to realize what a nerf to Operative damage truly means. It means that we will need more ways to keep others in range, and for longer. If we can only alpha strike as well as, say, the Assassin/Shadow, then we need increased mobility/utility/CC on par with what they get, because we will have to pressure opponents as opposed to dealing the majority of our damage front-loaded. -Macheath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boissi Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 If our damage gets nerfed, I want a gap closer or a knockback in return. Are we like the only class without a knockback? Huttball would be so much more fun if we had one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thankyjack Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) :DNothing you do should help an under leveled, under geared player survive the burst of a 50 pvp geared op. That would break op. Let's wait until we really know what's going on before we scream buff/nerf. That means level 50 pvp brackets and premades. Right now, force users are absurd in pvp, yet you can see how level balance will change that. Edited January 16, 2012 by Thankyjack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urothefox Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I think the best change that could happen would be to make Lethality and hybridization a bit more appealing. As it is, the Concealment tree is so good and less labor intensive than Lethality. Currently, one must employ a Rube Goldberg Machine-like ability rotation. It is terribly unwieldy. Furthermore, Acid Blade makes you want to go 31 points in; Weakening Shot doesn't have the same appeal. There is a general homogenization of Operative specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevvy Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) I think bads should be nerfed. They cry too much on the forums and it is creating a forum imbalance. But seriously, this class/spec can't survive a nerf without buffs at the same time. We're just not good enough out of stealth to make a different if Hidden Strike or Acid Blade are nerfed. Edited January 16, 2012 by Sevvy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrdude Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Biochem nerf combined with 50 bracket significantly changes our burst potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikassi Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Everything always gets nerfed ... I thought they would nerf the agent storyline as people were complaining it was too good ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinemetu Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 1) Nerf biochem (done). 2) Convert the Hidden Strike knockdown into an interrupt and a 4 second root. 3) Reduce the damage from Acid Blade/Hidden Strike by at least 15% PvP rank 55 operative. Yes, it's broken and imbalanced. I don't think nerfing biochem will be enough, either. I'm not biochem, and I still was able to destroy people coming out of stealth as concealment (normally I'm a medic). Unless they had guard up or were battlemasters or had a sorc shield on, I could count on getting anyone to 50% by the time they could respond. I would add that they could buff Lacerate or something after nerfing hidden strike. After that initial burst, I felt like I may as well vanish or run off to restealth cause I just wasn't killing anything fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astyler Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) make vanish cost between 35-50 enegy. increase energy cost of stealth opener to 35-50, so a burst opener will lower sustained, while a sustained approach wont start in an energy hole. also creates a huge energy hole for vanish+ambush(shoot first w/e). not class breaking with the energy regen ability on a 2m cooldown, makes the burst have a sustained tradeoff, and a incerases the effectiveness of that regen CD. people saying op/scound dont have good sustained are on crack, and are just making excuses for their burst. we have plenty of sustained especially with DOTs rolling... zz. they should however, make the shared tree viable for the melee class and not just another option for sniper/gunslinger. it would be nice to have an alternative dps option Edited January 17, 2012 by astyler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maestruljedi Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I don't think nerfing biochem will be enough, either. I'm not biochem, and I still was able to destroy people coming out of stealth as concealment (normally I'm a medic). Unless they had guard up or were battlemasters or had a sorc shield on, I could count on getting anyone to 50% by the time they could respond. I would add that they could buff Lacerate or something after nerfing hidden strike. After that initial burst, I felt like I may as well vanish or run off to restealth cause I just wasn't killing anything fast. So let me get this straight. You can take half the hp of an undergeared player before they can respond, and then couldn't finish them. And you think OPs need a nerf. Or perhaps you want them to be more than a one-trick pony ? In that case, i agree and i see your reasoning, you buff out-of-stealth damage, the class becomes too powerful, nerf the from-stealth damage without buffing anything else, the class becomes crap. But from your comment alone we can see what's the issue with the OP in the first place. High burst from stealth. Survive that, and you can eat an OP alive. Gear up and the high burst isn't that high anymore. There you go. No need to swing the nerf bat, unless you want to give more sustained dps to the OP and give it more depth, i'm okay with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iivewire Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 make vanish cost between 35-50 enegy. increase energy cost of stealth opener to 35-50, so a burst opener will lower sustained, while a sustained approach wont start in an energy hole. rofl, **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neurosisxeno Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Lethality Suggestion: Add a talent that removes the TA granted by Shiv and instead adds TA to Corrosive Dart crits. Energy would still be the limiting factor, but it would allow Lethality to be mid-range instead of Melee with a rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masahiko Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 make vanish cost between 35-50 enegy. increase energy cost of stealth opener to 35-50, so a burst opener will lower sustained, while a sustained approach wont start in an energy hole. also creates a huge energy hole for vanish+ambush(shoot first w/e). not class breaking with the energy regen ability on a 2m cooldown, makes the burst have a sustained tradeoff, and a incerases the effectiveness of that regen CD. people saying op/scound dont have good sustained are on crack, and are just making excuses for their burst. we have plenty of sustained especially with DOTs rolling... zz. they should however, make the shared tree viable for the melee class and not just another option for sniper/gunslinger. it would be nice to have an alternative dps option I dont know what kind of sustained damage you do to any kind of geared target but giving up half an energy pool for an opener and saying oh its balanced cause you have a 2 min CD is pretty awful. Then it becomes an arm race of CD balancing as opposed to balancing the class itself. WoW rogues suffered forever from the CD balancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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