The same was said of people who earned valor in lolilum. It was a joke compared to the folks who earned BM before 1.1. This is just another nerfing of things down (or enabling of things to be easier).

No, it is not always highest valor (though it usually is). I don't believe anyone knows the exact formula in the forums.

Mine has been bugged since December. Left multiple CSR reports. Send multiple bug reports. The standard response is basically "thanks". Annoying to say the least.

Ops before 1.1. Oh wait... Armored healers are good, too

Rofl on thread talking about pvp skill in a mmo without gear. Play Halo if you want to level the playing field the most (ie player hardware is mostly the same, gear is mostly the same, classes are the same, abilities are same, etc). Mmos are fundamentally different. Gear is a differentiator.

Acid Blast got nerfed 40%.

Thanks for making me lol at an inappropriate rl time.

100% agree. Keep voice for main class lines. All other budget put towards everything else.

Sins are one of my fav alts to play in Huttball due to force speed, overload, and pull (when specced). IMHO they are one of the most useful to contributing to a win. Try an op.

If by red buff you mean the warzone red buff that grants expertise -- then no, you unfortunately cannot. They count the same as adrenal as far as a buff is concerned. For example -- if you utilize the rakata adrenal and then step on the warzone red buff -- the warzone red buff will take the place of the adrenal and override the buff. Vice versa as well.

The problem is that other classes who can stack can burst for more or similar as ops after the nerf based on my napkin math. This includes Mars/Sents/Jugs/Guards... Example: Mar's now can use their 15% buff, warzone buff, relic, and do 6k crits on low expertise 50s (similar to how our absolute best is 7k to 8k now). While 4k to 5k are far more common on Mar's, it is possible to min/max & get lucky on a new 50 and do 6ks (and even 7s, but let's not push it). Another example: Jugs/Guard's already were doing 10k+ hits pre buff-stacking (like us). They are doing almost exact same burst as we are capable of using an AOE. Yes it takes setup, etc. After we are nerfed about 25% (20% from the our alpha strike + 5% I'm estimating from armor pen), then our new top estimate is 5k to 6k (with common hits lower). We won't have most burst in game, arguably we will have similar burst to other classes that are maxxed geared, getting lucky, stacking what is available, and going against new 50s. Additionally, we don't even have the longest stun on our opener (Sin's will), as we will go from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds (same as a GCD -- really?). Thus going back to -- if we are approximately the same burst/stun as others, and yet lowest out of stealth dps (of all dps classes) -- and worst mobility -- doesn't that seem a tad off?

704 expertise (full bm gear) is 12.66%. 700 would be about 12.62%.

I wanted to chat about the new Op/Scound nerfs on the pts designed to lower burst/stun. Before I do, some context…I was one of those Ops that did some 10k crits before 1.1 (character name Gellig on Bondar Crystal). How? Good gear and higher level (relative to others). Buff stacking. Lucky crits. Ops/Scoundrels weren’t the only ones capable of those rare 10k crits (for example: http://i41.tinypic.com/2mnqjbs.png), but we did it more frequently. That being said, I saw far more 8k crits than 10k -- and without stacking and misc bonuses and situationals, crits would be far lower (50%ish). Bioware did 2 things in the latest 1.1 patch that brought the “good” 8k crit down to what we see now as a “good” 6k hit (for a fully geared BM -- though you can actually optimize for higher crits wearing some other gear over all BM gear due to itemization). It is still possible to go higher than 6k now, but higher crits are rare (lucky roll, mar buff, low defense opponent, etc). Also note that the 6k crits that we can do now aren’t constant – you can do one and then you are subject to constraints (your adrenals/relics on CD, you need to land the crit, you need to get a decent damage roll, your opponent can’t have thrown their defensive CDs, etc). Anyway, the 2 things that brought burst potential down were: #1 they stopped key buff stacking (from 4 down to 2), which lowered our burst. #2 they introduced the 50s bracket, which lowered much burst. Pre 50s obviously didn't have all the defensive abilities, gear with expertise, knowledge, etc to lower the burst damage we did. That being said, there are still some un-expertised 50s – eventually I imagine they may bracket based on expertise, if there are enough people. The reality was that before #1 was implemented, burst-specced Ops/Scoundrels could shine slightly more than anyone using those buff stacks (because our burst was slightly higher than anyone to begin with), though Guardians/Jugs could do 10k (like I show above) with the right buff stacking and luck on an AOE ability. It’s amazing what Adrendal, Relic, Warzone Buff, PVP Vendor Buff, Mar Buff + class buffs + lucky crit damage roll + appropriate opponent + great gear + etc would do for all classes. But, it was all too much. For the minority who leveraged it (and it was a minority in my experience, based on doing hundreds of wz's and reviewing the data), we ruined it for all. Such is the life of a min/maxer. Now onto the new nerf on the pts. The new proposed nerfs to burst/stun for Ops/Scounds seem “incomplete” and rushed to me (for those that want to play that burst spec). Incomplete in that I feel you are taking the class-defining stun/burst away without compensating appropriately. Rushed in that the new changes were proposed days after the other 2 changes listed above were put into place (i.e. without weeks of new valid data backing it up). Incomplete because you negatively impact PVE, which is the opposite love Ops should be getting (one could argue respec) in the PVE world. Incomplete in that you end up with a talented alpha strike opening with a lower duration stun than the Sin/Shadow (though Sin/Shadows do less damage on their opener if they choose to stun instead of damage)... nerfs without compensating mobility or utility. The problem I’m having is that the defining ability of the Op/Scound class was the opening burst/stun. I believe that the key design tradeoff between Op/Scound and Sin/Shadow was that Sin/Shad had better utility & mobility (see force speed/overload) and sustained out of stealth damage -- to the Ops/Scound's opening burst/stun. But, if these changes go through, I question what the original design goals of the class were. You would be lowering the opening burst of the Ops/Scounds to be only marginally better than burst that other classes are capable of (using buff stacking/etc). Yet, we remain with the worst out of combat damage and worst mobility of all other classes... And yes, I listened to the audio commentary about the "scoring" of our alpha opener. I also fear if you go forward with these nerfs as they are, without compensating utility or mobility buffs for Ops, then the inevitable for other classes will be further incoming nerfs (like longer CDs to shields for sorcs/sages, grav round/tracer missile increased ammo usage, lower guard %, lower heal or increased trauma, etc). I don't think that makes sense at this point in the game. Thus, what would I recommend? I’d recommend not going live with those Ops/Scounds PTS changes. First allow the ability to copy live characters to PTS. Then wait for another month evaluating the data. Then, if you still feel the burst is too high after sampling all data, then I would propose you consider adding a Shadow Step like ability. I would also propose you evaluate Op/Scound PVE DPS (at the same time take a strong eye looking at melee vs ranged pve dps in encounters and see if that is inline with what you intended). And, re-evaluate what the class design intent of the Op/Scound was relative to other classes, and re-evaluate our burst potential relative to others (are we all appropriate?) -- including sustained dps, utility, and mobility. Right now, based on the data I’ve seen, Ops/Scounds are the least played class in the game. These proposed changes won't help. While # played doesn’t necessarily correlate to balance or power in the game, it is a data point to consider (people tend to flock to powerful PVP classes on PVP servers). Not that it is really relevant to this thread, but great players I know frankly know how to easily counter Ops to mitigate their burst/stun -- they save their trinkets, they react quickly, they keep their shields up (and spec for abilities to counter like AOE cc or overload cc etc), they utilize their AOEs and anti-stealth, their pushbacks, their dots, slows, etc. Shrug. Oh, and after a lot of PVP, I personally feel Gunslingers/Snipers and Sins/Shadows need some love -- but that's another thread for another time. TL;DR: evaluate (nerf) data on PTS for a few more weeks (after you enable character copying to test server) -- and if burst still seems high for Ops/Scound, then consider improving their mobility (ala a shadow step like ability).

The nerfing of buff stacking had significantly lowered the top end opener damage.

The class isn't OP without buff stacking imho. With buff stacking, it was -- for everyone. However, given our stealth alpha strike, it made us that much more powerful. Arguably we need to be reviewed for improvements given the change to buff stacking and our reliance on burst.