Sentinel Needs Serious Love

[selectah]

The Sentinel is fine.

 

The only thing thats really idiotic is our set bonuses on both the pve and pvp sets.

 

Sentinels utility is what makes them stand out.

 

Finally someone who understands the meaning of this class...

We are NOT your generic dps faceroll everything with 2 buttons class. We are the hardest class to play, no doubt about that. It was imo a very bad move of Bioware to make the most flashiest class make the hardest to play, but if played right, we have the most utility of all the classes ingame.

 

And by that i do not mean, we can faceroll 1v3, that is not what we are intended for in the first place. We definitly can do more dps then most other classes over time. Iam not talking about pvp spike dmg like a shadow, which is shadowstriking you 3 times in a row for 16k dmg. The difference between spike dmg and dps is that the shadow has to rest after doing his spike dmg by doing slashes (or other low force/low dmg) abilities for some time, whereas we can do our dmg nonestop, without ever having to strike in between or use other "low dmg abilites".

 

And to all out their claiming "Combat" to be our "burst/spike"-dmg tree...

Sorry but just cause there is an autocrit ability in the tree doesn`t make it burst. In fact it is the same sustained dmg as watchmen, just a different kind of dmg (direct attaks vs dots).

 

Then there are those ppl claiming that we are "squishy"...

Not true either. We have 4 abilities which boost our defensive stats, prior and most awesome is rebuke. It gives you a flat 20% dmg mitigations. Come think of it. At lvl46 (which i am currently) i have about 22% mitigation. +20% from rebuke that is over 40% dmg mitigation, that is more than most tanks get (as shields dont proc in pvp, at least for most attacks).

Then we have our 6 sec *** invul ability alias "Guarded by the force"... True it takes half your hp, but you aren`t seriously thinking about using it at 100% anyways. Its your 10% "i want to put out as much dmg as possible / kill that one / escape the operation boss" skill...

Last but not least we have saberward (not that good in pvp) and our 10% + movespeed buff out of centering... which you can stack to as long as 30 secs thanks to our "give me 30 centering for free"-ability.

 

Now come the people whining "But we don`t have a valid CC". That definitly is true, but that would be OP anyway, as we already have the constant slow, the two snares, the aoe stun (which breaks on dmg though) and a cc which deals dmg over time but is channeled. In addition to that we have 4 abilites that can disrupt (1 of which can only disrupt casts channeled at you) and we have (depending on skilling) up to 4 gap closer, and not to forget the only heal debuff of all classes...

 

Almost no class ever will kill a sent in 1v1 if played right.

 

On the PVE side, we have as i wrote above a pretty awesome (long time) dps, the ability to buff our allies with 15%dmg/heal or 10%mitigation+ms as long as 30secs in a row, and another 15sec around every 25sec (depending on tree), and they stack if more than one sent triggers it...

 

BTW: I`ve lvld my sent all the way to 46 as combat specced, i could basically choose which comp i wanna go with and had no problems on any class quest or any other quest at all (i was using my healer companion for only 2 lvl).

 

Long(rly long) story short, we are a blast if teamed up or 1v1, bad if 1vX (x > 1), but have by far the most utility of all classes, but are the hardest to play right. And we are no DPS PVP FACEROLL CLASS FFS.

 

@Bioware: rly bad move to make the flashy guys to play the hardest ;(

Edited January 16, 2012 by selectah

[Acharial]

I do agree to some extent, and people cannot deny the fact that we are most optimal wth a pocket healer.

 

If we only had that force push I think we would have been way better. Actually, we would have been great, It's the iconic thing of a warrior and Sentinel would benefit so much from it in regards of PvP. We are also sustainers wich means we have to build up our DPS and this is a very big problem in PvP. I usually run Combat and without a pocket healer, well.. It's not easy.

 

Force Camouflage should last a big longer as stated. But that would probably lead to a higher cooldown and then It would be as annoying as its currently is. There are very few times where you actually survive regardless when you use it.

 

The class is really good in an aspect of PvE. There is not much there that needs a change at all. Devs even stated "pure" dps classes will do about the same damage as the hybrids so I'm fine with the DMG output in PvE. However in PvP we need a lower curve to start out the DPS. Building up centering and what not third resource is just a pain. :/

[selectah]

Something i forgot to add:

 

The "bad scaling" of the second weapon:

True there could be more flashier number for the second weapon dmg (who wants to see 200 - 300 dmg on lvl 40+), i think (and i can only speak for combat here) the weapon dmg is fine and actually makes out a big chunk of our dmg. True its only 66% (with the 3 skills put into it) and a hit change of 50% and a force strength of 60% (without acc or force dmg additions). But we have ataru which can proc off both weapons and the second weapon crit is not bound on the first weapon crit, and the ataru crit is not bound on the corresponding weapon crit either... For our purpose (sustained dmg) this is pritty awesome ;=)

Edited January 16, 2012 by selectah

[Atamosk]

The title of the post should be MY SET SUCKS IN PVP. BW please make me OP so I can rofl stomp everyone, because if I don't I will have to reroll to a class that I feel is FOTM.

 

Buffing set is no easy task. BW risks making them WAY OP and then you will see Set everywhere. The big problem is that other classes have more tools not so much damage. Set is a single target dps NOT AOE. Sages and Sorc will be seeing the Nerf nuke bomb dropped on them soon and the will lose the FOTM status soon. Sorry to say but PVP balance is something that is impossible for a game that is more PVE focused. PVP biggest problem is the CCfest that it is right now. That does need to be fixed.

 

Forget PVP balance because it's not going to happen. Don't like set don't play it. Don't like the way PVP is don't do it. If you are a PVP only person find a PVP game an play it, but don't hold your breath that PVP is going to become balanced in the game because it is not going to happen.

 

I will laugh when the nerf bat comes and I will be able to drink tasty Sage and sorc tears.

 

this is the truth.

 

played wow for 7 years, never was there a fotm character. And it only matters for the highest rank of pvp which only the best people play in. which in wow was not a huge player base. this mattered for tournements that were played outside the game, if you were good no rank was impossible. so stop this complaining.

 

if you get roflstomped then its something you are doing wrong. if you are playing your class to the best of its ability then what do you have to complain about?

[Rakimou]

Why do people bring up the argument that sentinel "is not faceroll". No **** Sherlock. The point is, even if you utilize 100 of your class, you will still do worse than pretty much every class out there. I can press 30 buttons, alright. Even though it's an artificial difficulty and it's not fun at all. Instead of looking at the battle, I have to constantly monitor bazillion 15 second cooldowns.

I can't wait for rated wz matches. That should make all the idiots shut up.

[Niquity]

Your bad. nothing to see here guys.. move along

[SarimRune]

The OP's post is primarily about PVP it seems. I generally play PVE.

 

I've been hesitant to jump on board with the Sentinel needs love. Yeah, I die a lot (a LOT!) but that's part of the game.

 

But I've hit the Harrowers and now I get it!

 

I don't know what this class needs but the damage output does not feel like it's enough to deal with the fact that you're tissue paper.

 

I don't like the idea that I have to grind to outlvl my content so that I can beat my content. I thought the point of saying that a mission is for lvl 32 (Harrowers) is that a lvl 32 should have a reasonable chance to beat it. I'm lvl 33 and it took three deaths to beat 1.

 

I hear about the Bounty Hunter soloing (no companion) an Elite. And fighting a Champion (with companion). I can't help be a little jealous.

 

I LOVE this class. I LOVE the storyline. I don't want this game to be super easy either! I just want it so I can actually face a pair of Strongs from time to time without it taking 3/4 to all of my health.

[Apocalypse-]

The OP's post is primarily about PVP it seems. I generally play PVE.

 

I've been hesitant to jump on board with the Sentinel needs love. Yeah, I die a lot (a LOT!) but that's part of the game.

 

But I've hit the Harrowers and now I get it!

 

I don't know what this class needs but the damage output does not feel like it's enough to deal with the fact that you're tissue paper.

 

I don't like the idea that I have to grind to outlvl my content so that I can beat my content. I thought the point of saying that a mission is for lvl 32 (Harrowers) is that a lvl 32 should have a reasonable chance to beat it. I'm lvl 33 and it took three deaths to beat 1.

The Harrowers are supposed to be extremely difficult. If you were to take a proper 4-man group in at level and pull all 3 expecting to faceroll them, you'd wipe. Take solace in this: You'll see them again.

 

I hear about the Bounty Hunter soloing (no companion) an Elite. And fighting a Champion (with companion). I can't help be a little jealous.

Champions aren't that hard once you get your healing companion...

[Sansin]

This is the most accurate post I have read in a while on the forums.

 

As a Sentinel, I truly hope someone at Bioware is reading these threads and paying attention.

 

Thank you to the OP!

[Taglim]

Afternoon all,

 

so I've just read this thread post for post, and unfortunately, no disrespect for the OP intended, but you should really listen to Topher with what he's said in his posts - his screenshots had nothing to do with epeen posting he was merely showing the damage capable of the watchmen spec and the healing done in it also - I can also confirm that he is infact Watchmen and this wasn't aoe dmg - as their aoe dmg is fairly poor.

 

Also I'll actually just chuck out a quick thanks to Topher as he does play the same server as me (bloodworthy) and was kind enough to have a quick chat with me regarding the watchmen spec - I'm focus you see and was curious about it having tried combat and hated it.

 

 

What I will say is that Topher's watchmen spec is designed specifically for soloing - 1v1 he beat me in huttball when we were pitched against one another - however it was close and there was an adder that hit me a few times - not an excuse because to be fair i'd expect to lose vs a watchmen specced sentinel.

 

 

Anyways back on topic - I do agree with some of the points ie knockbacks are most annoying as a sentinel however thats just part of the game! plenty of annoying cc and knock backs you just have to learn it and avoid it!

 

As for the damage etc I'm not going to post screenshots and flex my epeen etc but from 40ish I started hitting the bigger numbers (without using consumables etc) such as 5.5k hits - capable of doing this every 9 seconds or so with 2-4k hits in between.

 

I usually average around 200-450k in each warzone - probably a little less in huttball if I join with a pre-made guild group as we actually try to win

 

With respect to the two many keys moaning, I'd love to agree with you here but I literally can't - without sounding horrible if its too many keys for you then perhaps you need to re-roll and play a one button class.

 

If anybody on bloodworthy has any questions about sentinel though give me a shout - char is named same as my sign in here - Taglim and I'll be more than happy to give pointers - I found it stupidly difficult at first but now I've figured out my class I find pvp stupidly easy hitting 40+ kills every warzone and between 0 and 5 deaths - mostly 0.

[Boulvie]

I agree with a majority of the OP.

 

I'm not a conspiracy theorist type who wears a foil hat all day to prevent the government from melting my brain BUT I honestly think they made Jedi Knights the weakest class because they knew they would have TONS of them. In a backwards way, it makes sense, so many people play our class, not because of the damage but because of the way it ties to the movies. Jedi Knight, it's Luke, Mace, Obi-wan, Anakin etc etc all the people who we loved from the movies. They knew the numbers of commandos (at least initially) would be down compared to Knights, so they purposely made them "worse" to even things out and make people explore other classes and aspects of the game.

 

Anyhow, I agree our DPS needs a boost and we have ONE single closing ability, which is easily countered by sith that have the knockback ability. So you Force Leap, they knockback and your back to square one.

[Gundiok]

Afternoon all,

 

so I've just read this thread post for post, and unfortunately, no disrespect for the OP intended, but you should really listen to Topher with what he's said in his posts - his screenshots had nothing to do with epeen posting he was merely showing the damage capable of the watchmen spec and the healing done in it also - I can also confirm that he is infact Watchmen and this wasn't aoe dmg - as their aoe dmg is fairly poor.

 

Also I'll actually just chuck out a quick thanks to Topher as he does play the same server as me (bloodworthy) and was kind enough to have a quick chat with me regarding the watchmen spec - I'm focus you see and was curious about it having tried combat and hated it.

 

 

What I will say is that Topher's watchmen spec is designed specifically for soloing - 1v1 he beat me in huttball when we were pitched against one another - however it was close and there was an adder that hit me a few times - not an excuse because to be fair i'd expect to lose vs a watchmen specced sentinel.

 

 

Anyways back on topic - I do agree with some of the points ie knockbacks are most annoying as a sentinel however thats just part of the game! plenty of annoying cc and knock backs you just have to learn it and avoid it!

 

As for the damage etc I'm not going to post screenshots and flex my epeen etc but from 40ish I started hitting the bigger numbers (without using consumables etc) such as 5.5k hits - capable of doing this every 9 seconds or so with 2-4k hits in between.

 

I usually average around 200-450k in each warzone - probably a little less in huttball if I join with a pre-made guild group as we actually try to win

 

With respect to the two many keys moaning, I'd love to agree with you here but I literally can't - without sounding horrible if its too many keys for you then perhaps you need to re-roll and play a one button class.

 

If anybody on bloodworthy has any questions about sentinel though give me a shout - char is named same as my sign in here - Taglim and I'll be more than happy to give pointers - I found it stupidly difficult at first but now I've figured out my class I find pvp stupidly easy hitting 40+ kills every warzone and between 0 and 5 deaths - mostly 0.

 

 

Look I never replied to Topher's post or said anything about him having an epeen because;

 

1. He made it a point to discredit nearly every line except the bugs

2. He did so taking nearly everything out of context. ie, the complaint about difficulty of the class. I actually enjoy the "complexity", but I don't enjoy it to the point where I feel like I'm playing whackamole with buttons and not enjoying the game. BW devs have already commented that they intend to do something about this so they also recognize there is a problem here.

3. I don't care if he has a screenshot of him doing 550K damage. There are a myriad of different ways this can be possible. I don't know what level or gear he or his opponents are wearing, if both sides are stimming and it is perfectly legitimate for a watchman to have high damage at the end of a game....having high overall damage does NOT mean you have the survivability, maneuverability or the single target "short term" damage to compete with other classes ONE ON ONE.

4. If he read what I said, I said I have played every spec and preferred Focus. Yes Watchman is a nice build if you want to run around and BURN everything to pad your overall damage... that is NOT how I play the game.

 

I'm not going to entertain someone who clearly wants to twist things in their favor just so they can call everyone else newbs. Go spec watchman and burn everything and smile at your giant damage on the scoreboard. That is NOT what this topic is about.

 

Things will be much more clear when we have combat logs... you will see where we fail when you can identify who is taking more damage, who is receiving more healing etc.

[Apocalypse-]

... Yes Watchman is a nice build if you want to run around and BURN everything to pad your overall damage... that is NOT how I play the game...

 

You do know that this isn't physically possible, right? As in you can only have 3 stacks of overload up at a time, regardless of how many people you spread it to, and Cauterize can only be up on one target 90% of the time, with that 10% of the time requiring luck to get it on two and only available at the start of a fight, but even then it's a poor decision? If you'd actually played Watchman post-November you'd know this.

 

Single target damage Sentinels are fine. Better than fine when you consider that we're the only class that you can't permanently shut out with either interrupts or knocking us off a ledge.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Apocalypse-

[Gundiok]

You do know that this isn't physically possible, right? As in you can only have 3 stacks of overload up at a time, regardless of how many people you spread it to, and Cauterize can only be up on one target 90% of the time, with that 10% of the time requiring luck to get it on two and only available at the start of a fight, but even then it's a poor decision? If you'd actually played Watchman post-November you'd know this.

 

Single target damage Sentinels are fine. Better than fine when you consider that we're the only class that you can't permanently shut out with either interrupts or knocking us off a ledge.

 

Saying that you will have higher overall damage with watchman than you will with Focus. Already said I play both specs... and I swap frequently.

 

I don't know why you want to continue to ignore the fact that the class needs help. You are obviously a good player and kudos to you for that, not debating that. The problem is (which is what everyone has pointed out since beta) is that you're likely to be twice as good on any other class.

[Apocalypse-]

Saying that you will have higher overall damage with watchman than you will with Focus. Already said I play both specs... and I swap frequently.

 

I don't know why you want to continue to ignore the fact that the class needs help. You are obviously a good player and kudos to you for that, not debating that. The problem is (which is what everyone has pointed out since beta) is that you're likely to be twice as good on any other class.

 

This isn't the real world. I'm not playing basketball with a cast on my foot. The idea of being able to play twice as good is a red herring.

 

Every class has a skill cap where you can't possibly play any better. At/near these skill caps, the classes are almost perfectly balanced, if not favoring Sentinels and Vanguards. The "issue" is that Sentinel's skill cap requires a significantly higher level of play than say a Commando who has a much higher "skill floor". However, because of this, there is far less definition between a bad Commando and a good Commando. If Sentinels range in ability from 1-10, Commandos might only range in ability from 6-9.9. Great players can almost completely shut out a Commando, it is impossible to shut out a Sentinel without blowing serious cooldowns and once they're gone or resolve is up, the Sentinel can run rampant.

 

The issue is that raising the "skill floor" for Sentinels would involve making the class far simpler, and considering that there are numerous people even in this thread that love the complexity of Sentinels, that is not an acceptable solution. The class is Boom or Bust. Playing a Sentinel and being in the 6-8 range is excessively rare and you'll typically not stay there, if you're good enough to be there you're just missing a few key ideas/revalations (or possibly just gear) and you'll take a huge step soon. The TRUE problem lies in the excessively elevated skill floors of other classes, chiefly Commandos, but also Sages though to a lesser extent. Scoundrels will join us in the low skill floor category once quad-buff stacking is history tomorrow. Expect their forum to start the tears with people who today are "great" at scoundrel/operative being "useless" tomorrow. They're not as boom or bust as we are, but they're not all that far behind.

 

I've had this same kind of discussion when I played LOTRO over the Runekeeper. When it launched, the class was extremely boom or bust, and the same day I pulled off a 8v1 against a Warg pack I got to read a thread saying how underpowered the class was. Eventually, the whiners won and the class got buffed into godmode, people saw what a few great players were doing on the class and these players would absolutely dominate every facet of the game. However, because the class still had a large gap between average and great, the class wasn't nerfed because the average common denominator was balanced. It marked just another one of Turbine's long list of mistakes and people kept going expecting a nerf each patch. As it continuously wasn't nerfed patch after patch, people quit the game. 12 months after the massive buff to Runekeepers and the start of subscriptions bleeding like crazy, the game was fully FTP. It took them 6 months to get the FTP systems running, so at 6 months out they were decided that they needed a saving throw.

 

Bioware needs to come out and label the classes "Easy", "Intermediate", "Advanced"/"Hard" and treat those as your balancing guidelines. NOT balance around nothing other than Average, as that ends very badly with either great players being gods on complex classes or every class being 123412341234...(notetoself: create macro)...12341234....

Edited January 16, 2012 by Apocalypse-

[RamzaBehoulve]

Apparently, having some classes harder to play is a bad thing.

 

/facepalm

[RamzaBehoulve]

I don't know why you want to continue to ignore the fact that the class needs help. You are obviously a good player and kudos to you for that, not debating that. The problem is (which is what everyone has pointed out since beta) is that you're likely to be twice as good on any other class.

 

So what if someone is twice better on another class? It just means Sentinel did not fit his personal skill level.

 

At maximum skill cap, the Sentinel outdoes every other class in the game as been proven numerous times in the last few weeks through videos and expert players posts. The only people who would be twice as good playing something else are those who did NOT get to Sentinel maximum efficiency.

 

Sentinel suffers only from two things : ability delay and stuttering. Once that is fixed, everyone is going to be screaming to nerf us.

Edited January 16, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[DosPeros]

First and foremost lets make sure we understand that their is a big difference between War Zone PVP and open world PVP.

 

I have participated in only a few war zones and their chaotic helter skelter atmosphere is prefect for proving nothing about the playability of Sentinel as a competitive PVP class.

 

True PVP is open world, one on one and spontaneous. I have found that in most one on one encounters the sentinel does not fare well.

 

As final proof of how poor the PVP playability of Sentinel is..... where is the Commando / Sorcerer needs loving in PVP post.............

[RamzaBehoulve]

First and foremost lets make sure we understand that their is a big difference between War Zone PVP and open world PVP.

 

I have participated in only a few war zones and their chaotic helter skelter atmosphere is prefect for proving nothing about the playability of Sentinel as a competitive PVP class.

 

True PVP is open world, one on one and spontaneous. I have found that in most one on one encounters the sentinel does not fare well.

 

As final proof of how poor the PVP playability of Sentinel is..... where is the Commando / Sorcerer needs loving in PVP post.............

 

I can count the number of losses 1v1 in open world PvP on my hands in around 50 battles (Edit : make it 51 now, stupid Sorc). So just because you had a bad experience doesn't mean the Sentinel has a problem. In most cases, the player is the problem.

 

Reflect on what you could have done better and how to counter the person you fought next time. Practice makes perfect.

Edited January 16, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[DosPeros]

If your trolling Tatooine as a lvl 50 looking for 25's I am sure you have dominated...

 

Their is an imbalance with ranged versus melee.

[Taglim]

You do realise that I'm Focus specced and hit the high figures all the time?

 

So as for running around burning players.... I just think you're whining because you can't figure out the class tbh, shame really as it seems to influence the way other people look at the class

[Iret]

so many ppl complaining about not getting into the 200k-300k in pvp games. let me tell you this, if you have marked in the 200k-300k area and your team still lost, YOU FAILED.

 

 

WZ are all about TEAMPLAY!

Its not about whos getting the highest dmg rating at the end of the game.

No wonder us rebels are losing huttball back and forth, if ppl are worrying more about how much dmg they are outputting rather than concentrating on scoring and passing the darn ball, we will lose 90% of the time.

If you are out ****** ppl on the voidstar yet u let ppl sneak behind you and take the door, you FAIL.

 

If you are on here saying Sentinels need some kind of defense buff, you fail also. Sentinels are pure DPS, giving them a slight dmg buff would make more sense. and YES they should be doing more dmg than a consular! consulars and inquistors are the ones that should be getting nerfed!

 

and YES i am a commando, probably shouldnt be on these forums in the first place but i just needed to get this off my chest, so many selfish minded players here.

 

as a commando i am also a DPS/Healer class and let me tell you. Combat Medic doesnt even compare to a Sage, a Sage will wipe the healing floor anyday. DPS wise we are nice yes, but if you see a commando sitting in the back doing nothing but grenades and mortar strikes and at the end he tops the dmg charts, HE FAILS. If you see a commando going head first single target focusing ppl, holding the line and getting the most killing blows at the end of the game, he is doing his job. The only shield we got is a 12 second 25% damage mitigation with a 2 min CD, hardly a livesafer if ur getting focused 4v1. so tell me why should sentinels get a 5% defense increase?? DMG buff yes but defensive would be just unfair..

[darthtoph]

Afternoon all,

 

so I've just read this thread post for post, and unfortunately, no disrespect for the OP intended, but you should really listen to Topher with what he's said in his posts - his screenshots had nothing to do with epeen posting he was merely showing the damage capable of the watchmen spec and the healing done in it also - I can also confirm that he is infact Watchmen and this wasn't aoe dmg - as their aoe dmg is fairly poor.

 

Also I'll actually just chuck out a quick thanks to Topher as he does play the same server as me (bloodworthy) and was kind enough to have a quick chat with me regarding the watchmen spec - I'm focus you see and was curious about it having tried combat and hated it.

 

Hi Taglim, thanks for the shout!

 

Look I never replied to Topher's post or said anything about him having an epeen because;

 

1. He made it a point to discredit nearly every line except the bugs

2. He did so taking nearly everything out of context. ie, the complaint about difficulty of the class. I actually enjoy the "complexity", but I don't enjoy it to the point where I feel like I'm playing whackamole with buttons and not enjoying the game. BW devs have already commented that they intend to do something about this so they also recognize there is a problem here.

 

I didn't make it a point to discredit nearly everything you said except the bugs, I was just stating my experience as Watchman and comparing it to yours. I know you play as Focus but that simply doesn't change the fact I play as Watchman. For the record, I started out as Focus but respecced as I found it lacking.

 

Nor did I take things out of context or talked smack in any way, I was merely trying to help you and tried to stay polite, if I came across as harsh I apologize.

 

With that said, you were the one who stated stuff like "I got 24 abilities to keep track of and only two hands" etc which by itself is a stupid comment (no disrespect) as anybody who have played several MMOs know that there are MMO classes out there with far more abilities/skills yet they manage just fine. And I told you how. You can do at least 45 combos with your right hand alone without ever having to look at the keyboard. Basic put, it's all about experience. Not that I'm saying you're inexperienced but if you're not used to that many abilities then simply give the system and design some time to sink in. Personally, I never look at my keyboard nor Focus bar as I know exactly which skills are up and how much Focus I have through the basic experience of repeating the same pattern over and over again.

 

Stuff like that goes for nearly everything you said.

 

Nor was I aware BW has recognized there is a 'whackamole with buttons' as to me, there is none. The last MMO I played before SWTOR was Aion for two years straight as a Gladiator and the latter had more skills to manage than a Sentinel. Yet it was never a problem for me nor most Gladiators. Then again, Aion was more hardcore and grindy than SWTOR.

 

And generally speaking, why is damage = epeen? Sentinel is a 100% pure melee dps class. Damage matters, period. A Sentinel that does 500K damage and kills +50 opponents IS doing a far better job than a fellow Sentinel who push out 150K damage and only kills 15 opponents. It is not an epeen egotrip but simply the best way to contribute as a pure dps class. A Sentinels main job as a teamplayer is to ELIMINATE THE OPPONENT, be it the Civil War, Voidstar, Huttball or open world PvP. The opponent can't cap turrets if he is dead. He can't plant the bomb if he is dead. Nor can he score or group up and gain the advantage if he is dead and repeatedly dying. A healer can't do his job properly if he's got a Sentinel on his arse, an Operative run around and faceroll people etc etc.

 

Maximize your damage output and do your job as a melee dps class. That's the best way to contribute. It doesn't mean you don't call out if inc or refuse to assist in capping or defending objectives, don't fight next to objects instead of out in the open or cast party skills, all of which I do all the time. But you're a 100% dps class. Deal with it.

 

It's like saying healers shouldn't focus on healing which is fail all over again.

 

Play the class!

Edited January 17, 2012 by darthtoph

[Toppins]

This isn't the real world. I'm not playing basketball with a cast on my foot. The idea of being able to play twice as good is a red herring.

 

Every class has a skill cap where you can't possibly play any better. At/near these skill caps, the classes are almost perfectly balanced, if not favoring Sentinels and Vanguards. The "issue" is that Sentinel's skill cap requires a significantly higher level of play than say a Commando who has a much higher "skill floor". However, because of this, there is far less definition between a bad Commando and a good Commando. If Sentinels range in ability from 1-10, Commandos might only range in ability from 6-9.9. Great players can almost completely shut out a Commando, it is impossible to shut out a Sentinel without blowing serious cooldowns and once they're gone or resolve is up, the Sentinel can run rampant.

 

The issue is that raising the "skill floor" for Sentinels would involve making the class far simpler, and considering that there are numerous people even in this thread that love the complexity of Sentinels, that is not an acceptable solution. The class is Boom or Bust. Playing a Sentinel and being in the 6-8 range is excessively rare and you'll typically not stay there, if you're good enough to be there you're just missing a few key ideas/revalations (or possibly just gear) and you'll take a huge step soon. The TRUE problem lies in the excessively elevated skill floors of other classes, chiefly Commandos, but also Sages though to a lesser extent. Scoundrels will join us in the low skill floor category once quad-buff stacking is history tomorrow. Expect their forum to start the tears with people who today are "great" at scoundrel/operative being "useless" tomorrow. They're not as boom or bust as we are, but they're not all that far behind.

 

I've had this same kind of discussion when I played LOTRO over the Runekeeper. When it launched, the class was extremely boom or bust, and the same day I pulled off a 8v1 against a Warg pack I got to read a thread saying how underpowered the class was. Eventually, the whiners won and the class got buffed into godmode, people saw what a few great players were doing on the class and these players would absolutely dominate every facet of the game. However, because the class still had a large gap between average and great, the class wasn't nerfed because the average common denominator was balanced. It marked just another one of Turbine's long list of mistakes and people kept going expecting a nerf each patch. As it continuously wasn't nerfed patch after patch, people quit the game. 12 months after the massive buff to Runekeepers and the start of subscriptions bleeding like crazy, the game was fully FTP. It took them 6 months to get the FTP systems running, so at 6 months out they were decided that they needed a saving throw.

 

Bioware needs to come out and label the classes "Easy", "Intermediate", "Advanced"/"Hard" and treat those as your balancing guidelines. NOT balance around nothing other than Average, as that ends very badly with either great players being gods on complex classes or every class being 123412341234...(notetoself: create macro)...12341234....

 

These are exactly my feelings. I dominate people 1v1 as a Sentinel, and I'm talking 1v1's on Ilum vs. Battlemaster Assassins/Sorcerors/Mercenaries/Operatives. This class has a high skill cap, and if you aren't good at this type of class you will feel underpowered.

 

Stop saying "you would be twice as good as another class"... that's not how this works! I'm best as a Sentinel. I've tried other classes. They don't measure up with my skillset. I'm good at melee. I'm good with lots of buttons. Ask me to stand still and spam abilities or kite and I get rolled.

 

I do NOT want Sentinels buffed. It will end very badly.

[Soulaufein]

All Sents need is bug fixing - animations, tooltips, and responsiveness.

 

We are NOT easy to kill, we CAN put out decent, uninterruptable pain. I do miss a better stun/more interrupts. Fights versus healers frustrate me