Notes on BioChem and Cybertech in Game Update 1.1

[hargrave]

well this is dam nice if only lotro had reacted in a timely manner instead of 5 years id still be there lol. Good work and im glad to see responsible and fair balance brought to the game.

 

Once again thanks for the explanation and hard work devs = )

[Seriasx]

Good thing you nerfed Cybertechs grenade dmg and kept the 5 min reuse timer, now we can finally all go biochem without having to worry about losing our grenade that can be used 1 - 3 times per wz...

[Akilae]

The real problem is that the other professions have very little use at end game. Of course people with those professions are going to *****, I would too if I invested in a skill that is negligible once I can actually afford to finish leveling it.

 

This is why Blizzard gave each profession a niche. Jewel Crafters getting a perk with a limited number of better gems, Blacksmiths who could create an extra gem socket, Enchanters with ring enchants, Skinners with a crit bonus, miners with a HP bonus, etc etc.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Akilae

[lollie]

zzzz nerfs

 

Games get less fun every time a dev touches it.

 

Too much work to look at whole picture and raise where needed...just swing the nerfbat zzzz

Edited January 14, 2012 by lollie

[Scandana]

But the cooldown on grenades is still 5 minutes?

 

We've been saying on the forums that it is far too long. If you are reducing the damage anyway, how about balancing them around a shorter cooldown, as well?

 

We currently cannot reverse engineer grenades, even though the UI lets us try. Is the bug that they show up as RE-able, or that doing it doesn't work?

 

What about the other crew skills? I think the key problem is that with the exception of Biochem and Cybertech, they don't offer anything that can't be achieved through other means. People want something unique from their crew skills; something that makes them say, "Yeah, I get to use this because I've got X skill!" and consumables are a good way to do that because there are many ways to get equipment.

 

I second this... reduce the cooldown on grenades then if they will provide less dps. I actually like using them in pve, and have no plans to actively pvp. I am sure I can survive without them, but sometimes you just need a good grenade to even the odds.

 

Remember Bioware, we are also supposed to be heroic, taking on epic battles of many vs 1.

[Chaos_Distortion]

 

In fact we have additional changes to classes and consumables currently in internal testing to deal with faster than anticipated kill times in player versus player combat in a future patch.

 

 

We are extremely careful with this type of change, and understand that it can be frustrating for our players when we make them. Please understand, we make these changes not because we like to mess with your character, but because they are required to ensure a level and fun playing field for all players of the game.

content.

 

Ok, I'm really baffled by that one bolded statement. Are you seriously going to start nerfing classes based on someone's experience in 1v1? PvP balance should never be based on a 1v1 encounter as there are many factors that player complaints don't care to factor in. The player being terrible is one of them, a lot of MMO players are. There is no such thing as an anticipated killing time in pvp because there are many things that need to be factored in, if you guys swing the killing time the other way and make it harder for people to get kills, you'll be doing back and forth nerfs every patch. The game is pretty balanced as far as classes go in a group vs group situation, only things like grenade damage need to be adjusted, classes don't. Some classes should be buffed so that they can kill easier, no class needs their damage to be toned down though.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Chaos_Distortion

[Itukaaj]

Thank you for acting fast and also being so direct as to why. The only people who will cry are the ones who would ruthlessly exploit their own mothers.

[Archetypee]

I can understand something like this being necessary, but you have now nerfed every single crafting skill that I have had and we are only one month into the game.

[lollie]

I can understand something like this being necessary, but you have now nerfed every single crafting skill that I have had and we are only one month into the game.

 

And it looks like they're about to start nerfing our pve experiences based on pvp

 

In fact we have additional changes to classes and consumables currently in internal testing to deal with faster than anticipated kill times in player versus player combat in a future patch.

 

Nice one, making every classic mistake of every recent game that's gone to ground. Do you dev types never learn? This is what drives people away.

Edited January 14, 2012 by lollie

[Cranberries]

Instead of nerfing Biochem and Cybertech why not do the proper thing and bring professions inline with one another? Firstly Cybertech didn't need to be nerfed as it is useless when a player gets access to Tionese, Columi or Rakata raid gear. Not only that but the grenades don't do hardly enough damage to justify a nerf - especially in PvE.

 

Biochem on the other hand was the only complete profession and the parts of Biochem that are, or might be, considered overpowered are the Stims and/or Adrenals. Not the medpacks. Not only this but the crafted implants (the epic ones) when 'Mastercrafted' are often better than most other implants in the game because the varying secondary stats are often better than the pure primary stat - especially at end game.

 

Really, you've completely missed the point as to why Biochem is even considered overpowered: it's the Stim/Adrenal bonuses and their unlimited usage, not the pathetic Medpack which doesn't even need to be used if you're a good player (read: you don't take unnecessary damage because you're a failure).

[Chaos_Distortion]

And it looks like they're about to start nerfing our pve experiences based on pvp

 

They're going to start nerfing classes because of some terrible pvpers that probably shouldn't be pvping anyways because they feel entitled and believe that their classes shouldn't be killed by x class and that they should always win 1v1s. When developers start basing pvp balance on what some terribad claimed happened to them in a 1v1, the game really starts going downhill.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Chaos_Distortion

[Akilae]

Sadly I think people didn't see this coming.

 

All those cries to make the other crew skills better because Biochem out shown them all, combined with "Welp my guild requires Biochem 400 good job BW" and you didn't think we where going to get this outcome?

 

News flash, most of the people spouting that their guild requires Biochem 400 are full of ****, or their guild is an elitist group of tools who will in fact still have silly requirements for membership. Actually listening to trolls lying or catering to complete douchebag guild leadership and having a knee jerk reaction to a fad does not only reflect poorly on BioWare's management, but also encourages these guilds to continue to act like *** hats.

 

What you're seeing here is lemmings doing what so-and-so told them to do, in addition to how internet fads work. People don't want to think about what they want, they like it when someone does the thinking for them, thus there's a forum outcry about x, y, or z being overpowered so people will flock to it. I'd be willing to put a wager that if the forums didn't exist, this never would have been an issue and people wouldn't have jumped on the Biochem bandwagon, because it wouldn't have been the "cool" thing to do.

 

Now to the people who start these forest fires, why not be productive and get a "skip crewskills altogether" thread going, suggest to your guild mates to avoid crew skills completely. Perhaps then, BioWare will go "oh snap, maybe we should make each of these money and time sinks useful at endgame?".

Edited January 14, 2012 by Akilae

[Glower]

They nerfed grenades and didn't reduced cooldown...

 

Hey, I do not care about PvP, i'm PvE player!

Remove grenades from PvP rotation - ban it, but don't nerf it in PvE!

[BrigOrion]

The real tl;dr is: PvP rules this game and all aspects of this game will be rewritten based on the whining of PvP players. This is what Lucasarts did to SWG, so no reason not to expect the same thing here.

[lollie]

The real tl;dr is: PvP rules this game and all aspects of this game will be rewritten based on the whining of PvP players. This is what Lucasarts did to SWG, so no reason not to expect the same thing here.

 

LOL prepare for a mass exodus of the pve players then.

[KanderRennik]

If these crafting classes are considered OP, then by all means balance them, but this does nothing to fix the overarching problem that crafting is WEAK! Devs need to be looking at ways to improve the viability of ALL crafting professions, rather than simply nerfing those that have been found to be viable.

[Wakaka]

so... how about them imbalanced animations effecting the differences in the factions, when's that going to happen?

[orionface]

Cooldown on grenades should be 2-3min minimum. I mean a 5min cd on them? You can use them like two or 3 times tops during a warzone

[nix_crash]

Medpacs, stims, and adrenals are all available on vendors. They are all also available on the GTN from Biochems who are selling their wares.

 

The only "bonus" granted them in pve content is that they don't have to spend money on consumables like you do once they have their reusable items. As long as you farm up enough credits for raiding every week, it's not like they have some sort of advantage on bosses that you don't.

 

if they would cost pennys, yeah, but who really can handle the cost of using a medpack every 90 sec for four hours continuosly? that's what a infinite-use medpack can do, basically becoming a self-healing cd that you put in your regular rotation, not anymore an emergency consumable.

[lollie]

who really can handle the cost of using a medpack every 90 sec for four hours continuosly?

 

Not everyone requires the medpacks every 90 sec for four straight hours - basically this is a pvp nerf that affects pve.

[Azotz]

In my opinion i believe Bioware made a great decision i hate fighting someone and almost killing them and then all of a sudden they got 2/3rds of their life back without a healer in sight and me cause i have cybertech could only pull a warzone heal stim could not compete

 

Another thing is that if your pveing in Operations you should not have to have biochemist to go

 

If you have to have heal packs to beat one there is one of two problems(or both)

 

A) Your not doing it right

B) Your healer need to get out of the DPS tree

 

A healer is better than any med pack(post nerf)

 

And yes the Firestorm grenade definitely needed a hit BIG TIME!!!!

 

I know this cause i would run in to 2 Republic toons, toss the firestorm on them than kill them both cause just the grenade alone took half a health bar. And don't reduce the cooldown cause then it would just go back to the way it started.

 

 

And after reading this thread I'm seeing a lot of whiners saying i want this, and this game needs this.

 

Tell you what prove to me you know anything about what Biowares up against

 

You have 100,000+ player wanting different things and if you give one one thing it makes half of the others pissed off.

 

If you have any knowledge on what it takes do this game please show it. You want a shorter cooldown. Write the program code in HLS(Hero Engine Language) and post it that proves you have the knowledge on how fast things can be done.

 

The games just only came out give it a while it will get a lot better

 

And don't compare this game to any other because in all reality it's not that game

 

And don't threaten to unsub i say go ahead my Ping will only get better.

 

If you think its so easy to do then why is the game like this after what? 8+ years in development.

Ill tell you why because players don't care about other players. They only think about how it affects them.

If it was so easy to please everyone then we all must want the same thing

Except we dont

 

I say good work Bioware keep it up and you'll make a awesome game yet. Too many times Ive played MMO's and it end up being the community destroying it and not the developers

 

I would really like to see this new flashpoint. More schems for the other crafting professions can wait. Take out the big issues that affect game-play other than ones that don't.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Azotz

[lollie]

whiners.

 

GG BioWare - you just found the one masochist who approves of your ill-considered decision to kneejerk nerf and not buff what's lacking.

[Azotz]

GG BioWare - you just found the one masochist who approves of your ill-considered decision to kneejerk nerf and not buff what's lacking.

 

Whats lacking? Your inability to see things from someone elses point of view

 

Or is it the lack of your wants not being put in front of the needs

Edited January 14, 2012 by Azotz

[lollie]

Whats lacking

 

What's needed is a look at the bigger picture and fix what is wanting, not charge in and blindnerf, like all the games who've gone before down that hill have done.

 

Bigger picture. Not the shortbus view.

[xhaiquan]

1) Commendations give rewards that are far too good. Both from daily reward vendors and as people progress leveling up. Rewards from these merchants should not be equal to prototype player made. If the same gear is to be used on these vendors, it should be the green quality gear. The cost of missions in time/credits to craft green, RE for blue, and then to craft a blue is grossly out of line with the cheap cost and insane ease of obtaining commendation items.

 

 

wrong. sounsd like your just upset your not making millions on the auction house