Notes on BioChem and Cybertech in Game Update 1.1

[Horkey]

The problem is that BW can't just buff other crew skills. It's not that simple. Atm ppl are whining that they get killed in one stun. Now imagine if you could improve your gear with your crew skill, and on top of that you go to vendor and buy some stims/adrenalins. Now that would be way to OP.

[Seismax]

Was kinda sad because I did drop my 400 skills to get biochem up... but then I realized I'd do it again because biochem is still a nobrainer even before the Rakata medpacks. Frankly unless Bioware reworks all of their tradeskills half baked fixes like this won't change anything.

[Monterone]

Hello all,

 

Quick addendum to Georg's post.

 

PvP overcharge consumable was meant to share a cooldown with adrenals and not stack with the power ups you can run over to pick up in Warzone maps. So players stacking all three were reaching combat numbers higher than intended, which is why we will be changing that in 1.1.

 

Additionally, we will continue to monitor and tune crafting professions to ensure they are in line with combat targets and toward the goal of keeping them viable in end game but not mandatory for participation. Currently there are several Armormech, Armstech, Synthweaving and Artifice recipes that can be found in end game content. We will be adding more in future updates.

 

-Gabe

 

How about adding Techniques to crafting?

 

For example, choosing to craft a medpack that has a technique added to it that makes it heal for more, but at a longer CD timer. Or maybe a player wants a medpack that heals for less, but more frequently. The same could be applied to grenades. Or you could apply one to change the damage type of a crafted grenade.

[Daisai]

As some of you may have already noticed from our patch notes for Game Update 1.1, we’ve made adjustments to several high-end, purple, player crafted items on the BioChem and Cybertech professions. Simply put, we reduced their overall impact on gameplay and I wanted to explain why it was necessary.

 

 

BioChem crafted medical kits were too good. In fact, they were too good both in the amount of healing they provided (often more than half a character’s health) and the frequency they could be used (every 90 seconds!). This was negatively impacting the game for everyone else. We’ve seen significant chatter both in and out of game about how players not picking up the BioChem professions would be ‘stupid’ and ‘gimping themselves’. This indicates that a small number of competitive players have been denying access to high end content based on whether a player has the BioChem Crew Skill.

 

 

Cybertech grenades, especially when stacked with additional power-ups and other temporary buffs, were creating combat damage burst potential higher than we were comfortable with and caused player versus player engagements in the game to resolve faster than intended. In fact we have additional changes to classes and consumables currently in internal testing to deal with faster than anticipated kill times in player versus player combat in a future patch.

 

 

 

The design intent for the game is that your choice of crafting profession should not become a requirement or ‘gating’ mechanism for participating in competitive content (PvP) and high end endgame challenges. While we certainly want players that engage in the crafting game to reap rewards for their effort, we don’t want one or two crafting professions to become the de facto ‘must have’ choice for everyone, which is what happened here.

 

 

We are extremely careful with this type of change, and understand that it can be frustrating for our players when we make them. Please understand, we make these changes not because we like to mess with your character, but because they are required to ensure a level and fun playing field for all players of the game.

 

At the same time, we understand that people that changed their profession because of the events described above will likely be unhappy about these changes – and while it’s easy to say ‘that’s how it goes in MMOs’, making modifications like this is something we’re always cautious about doing. At the same time, both player feedback and the data gathered from hundreds of servers made it very clear that this issue needed to be dealt with decisively now with only a small minority of players at endgame level and the vast majority of our characters in their 20s to minimize the number of affected players.

 

 

TL;DR: Fancy words for ‘we nerfed BioChem and Cybertech endgame products’ because they were so good that players started considering them mandatory. Your choice of profession is not supposed to be the deciding factor for participation and success in endgame content. We still believe that BioChem and Cybertech are very worthwhile Crew Skills, especially considering the significant fortune players with these professions are able to realize on the GTN... they are however no longer the ‘golden ticket’ into endgame content.

 

 

And all of this wasnt known to you before release?

 

All of those stats werent known to you on the beta server?

Not a single player on the beta server did ever level up biochem to 400 and used them ?

 

Seriously... for a game that you claim is so much tested a nerf like this is pretty pathetic.

[Vayshen]

Hmph. Lucky me I've yet to ever make a single grenade. Heck, I haven't even trained a single one of them. By the title I was afraid that somehow, for some reason, our mods/armorings or whatever would be nerfed and was like "oh gawd no.".

 

But tbh, this could be seen miles away. This game's nades are pretty damn similar to WoW's Engineering nades and were also pretty damn powerful in that game's pvp too, be it CC or damage. But as always, history repeats itself.

[Nodens]

While I have no issue with the nerd, it would be much better instead if you introduced some type of consumables to the other professions that are very good for pvp and pve endgame so people can choose their playstyle instead.

[DarkWyndre]

Changed my sub to monthly because of this. Making changes based upon a very tiny minority of players is an awful way to develop a game. If bioware is going to let the top 0.5% of players dictate the way this game goes, most of us aren't going to be sticking around long.

[rlhaas]

I think Bioware should get rid of the forums altogether. Every single thing people have whined about has somehow gotten nerfed but Bioware keeps saying it's because 'of metrics' or 'internal testing'. BULL. Yea, I'm calling you a liar Georg. Every nerf and everything you guys have touched outside of actual bug fixes have been directly because of whiny QQ on these boards and it's disgusting. I really had hoped that ya'll would be different, but alas you're not. Now you're going to start nerfing classes based on 'quicker than anticipated kill times' LOL. Gimme a break guys. Stop nerfing stuff and start FIXING stuff and your game will be better off.

[Heraclea]

Some of my characters are already finding the game too difficult, and have been shelved in the twenty-something levels. They don't have healing companions yet, and a 90 second wait for the next medpac heal is way, way, way too long.

 

If you're messing with Biochem, you may want to fix this as well. 10 seconds would be way more reasonable IMO, especially when you're dealing with an elite boss that has way more abilities than you have interrupts. At least, make the different medpacs not share a cooldown.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Heraclea

[Stuffedduck]

We plan to give all crafting and gathering professions additional and ongoing attention, yes.

 

It's important to remember that we launched not a month ago - we're in for the long haul. Crafting is an important part of the game and we have plans for it

 

The only important part crafting played for me in this game ... money and time sink.

 

Sorry to say, but once I reached level 50 and had my first little look at the daily commendation vendor ... I realized that I wasted way too much time and credits on levelling a crafting profession that is outdated once you hit level 50 and run dailies (ofc it is my fault that I didn't had 'a look' beforehand).

 

I really don't understand why the best mods, enhancements, armor, hilts etc you can craft are worthless after a couple of days of dailies. I would have preferred to see the purple crafting recipes to be in line with the vendor ones.

 

Even with the incoming nerf, adjustment to biochem I plan on dropping my crew skill for it, once I crafted levelling mats for my alts (7 to go :/).

Edited January 15, 2012 by Stuffedduck

[GrandMike]

Now truly crafting is only money sink. These 2 professions offered at least something, now that is gone. Ah, guess its time to go back to slicing. At least it isnt money sink. Unless you nerf that too to actually lose money on that too.

 

If you cant figure out what is actually wrong with biochem/cyber (or all other crafts in contrast) its hard to suggest anything at all.

 

I think Bioware should get rid of the forums altogether. Every single thing people have whined about has somehow gotten nerfed but Bioware keeps saying it's because 'of metrics' or 'internal testing'. BULL. Yea, I'm calling you a liar Georg. Every nerf and everything you guys have touched outside of actual bug fixes have been directly because of whiny QQ on these boards and it's disgusting. I really had hoped that ya'll would be different, but alas you're not. Now you're going to start nerfing classes based on 'quicker than anticipated kill times' LOL. Gimme a break guys. Stop nerfing stuff and start FIXING stuff and your game will be better off.

 

Its because they were actually useful so people started to pick them up because, lets face it, - other crafts are very, very, very...useless. So why not make these two as useless as other crafts? Nice logic there by BW.

 

Whole crafting actually turned up even worse that announced. They said that crafted items will be tad lower than best items and people would look up for crafters and that sort of stuff. Yeah right.

 

Can you tell us Georg, where are those schematics that can make me "best crafter on the server that people look for" and "crafter can make his name famous on a server" and all other promised stuff. Ha?

 

I actually have a suggestion - remove all crafting from game but slicing, and be done with it, because it is totally and utterly - useless.

Edited January 15, 2012 by GrandMike

[ArmoredJuneBug]

Nothing crafter should ever be BoP EVER.

That attitude isn't sustainable in any kind of marketable game today.

 

BoP items are needed for there to be a reason for the general populace to level a crew skill, and they need to be desirable as well.

 

I'm sure some people like to wax nostalgic about the 'good old days' where people crafted just because they could in <insert favorite niche game> but those days are long past.

 

Feel free to lament the fact but the reality remains, if I can't get a personal, otherwise unattainable advantage from leveling a crafting profession my time is better spent just farming credits.

 

Modern MMO's, or modern MMO players if it makes you more comfortable/superior, is all about 'whatever gives the most pluses'. You don't have to like it but that's the way it is.

 

You want me to do something in the game? Give me a compelling reason.

[Doamy]

-Post content removed- Edited May 6, 2012 by Doamy

[chitoac]

Nubs learn to develop

[PulseXXX]

Lol @ the 'omg, im gonna quit because of this.' It's an MMO, changes are made as needed to ensure game balance. I'm sure Biochem will get buffed/nerfed/buffed many times over, as will many other crew skills.

 

GJ staying on top of things BW.

[Soulcheg]

Nice work guys, other professions is useless, so instead of fixing others, we will make everyhthing useless.

 

 

Bioware, can't do anything properly, since Dragon Age 2.

[Sunflier]

 

 

BioChem crafted medical kits were too good. In fact, they were too good both in the amount of healing they provided (often more than half a character’s health) and the frequency they could be used (every 90 seconds!). This was negatively impacting the game for everyone else. We’ve seen significant chatter both in and out of game about how players not picking up the BioChem professions would be ‘stupid’ and ‘gimping themselves’. This indicates that a small number of competitive players have been denying access to high end content based on whether a player has the BioChem Crew Skill.

 

Do you guys mean you're nefing the overall big chunk, or the heal over time from the rafted ones? Are there any numbers that we can see?

[Vid-szhite]

Here's the thing: if you look at the changes on test, only the medpacs are nerfed, while the two tiers of stims below Rakata now require 400 Biochem to use. Not nerfed, just locked out for everyone else. Even the ones that aren't BOP require biochem to use now. These stims have a >25% advantage over other stims, which is hundreds of points worth of a buff.

 

This won't make Biochem less attractive at all, it will only give MORE incentive for people to gate content by who has 400 Biochem. If Exotech stims were excluded from that list, it wouldn't be so bad--biochemists could just sell those stims to other people for them to use, and not have as much of an advantage, and while that would mean Biochem is essentially the only craft that makes money at end game, it would be far better than being the only craft that is allowed in endgame.

 

Exotech stims need to be excluded from the list that requires 400 biochem, and other crafts themselves need to be able to make unique, powerful gear that no other craft can match. If it competes with raid gear, make it better than raid gear by making these crafted items require unique ingredients only dropped in raids. This essentially makes it harder to acquire than raid gear, and makes crafting useful in endgame.

[Graburr]

The problem is that BW can't just buff other crew skills. It's not that simple.

 

it's simple because the other crewskills are completely useless at 50. grab a customizable item, put the mods from dailies in it - voila, better than anything anyone can craft. or "hey, I got that cool schematic from an instance - which gives me a BOP" - just drop the item if it's BOP anyway ffs, no need to fake that crafting does anything.

 

so people pick up biochem/cyber because they're the only remotely usefull craftingskills. so much for metrics...

 

And all of this wasnt known to you before release?

 

All of those stats werent known to you on the beta server?

Not a single player on the beta server did ever level up biochem to 400 and used them ?

 

Seriously... for a game that you claim is so much tested a nerf like this is pretty pathetic.

 

how long did they publicy test the level 40+ stuff? "tested internally"... riiiiiiiiiiight

Edited January 15, 2012 by Graburr

[Kakachan]

grenades already got 5 min shared cooldown, they doesnt give a big adventage at all, cant understand why they will nerf it...

[gbrecht]

Please fix ability lag?

[Edryk]

it's simple because the other crewskills are completely useless at 50. grab a customizable item, put the mods from dailies in it - voila, better than anything anyone can craft. or "hey, I got that cool schematic from an instance - which gives me a BOP" - just drop the item if it's BOP anyway ffs, no need to fake that crafting does anything.

 

so people pick up biochem/cyber because they're the only remotely usefull craftingskills. so much for metrics...

 

 

 

how long did they publicy test the level 40+ stuff? "tested internally"... riiiiiiiiiiight

 

There's 140 rating armorings from dailies? Cause I can make several 140 rating pieces of gear as an Armormech.

[TonyACT]

Couldn't you have either:

 

1) Made healing the same as for other pacs, or

 

2) Made the item able to be sold on the GTN and used by anyone?

[Graburr]

There's 140 rating armorings from dailies? Cause I can make several 140 rating pieces of gear as an Armormech.

 

unless you count hardmode/op drops, the dailies give you better mods than the trainer (even if you RE them).

not to mention the money/time ratio...

Edited January 15, 2012 by Graburr

[ninoss]

Instead of buffing USELESS crew skills they nerf the only two usefull ones.

 

Bad move BW, very bad move.

 

I'm biochem myself and still gonna be one as I see absolutely no reason to go any other way. Could consider cybertech for PvP and starship goodies but those aint really my things.