HighPriestMikhal Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 On Beregen Colony, and amidst my own guild, I've noticed a trend that everyone who hits level 50 swaps out whatever crew skills they had before for Biochem, stating that, "It's the only skill any good at 50. All the commendation gear and drops are superior to anything that can be crafted, except medpacks and stims." Did I hear wrong when BioWare said crafted items would be superior to drop items? Do folks just not realize that you can discover advanced schematics of items by reverse engineering premium (green) and prototype (blue) versions? I'd like to hear what the designers themselves have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericdjobs Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) It's because most people don't have a brain and can't think on their own; So they come to the forums, take the general hive-mind groupthink, and go with it. They are completely oblivious to the fact that high-end schematics drop in Operations.. why I posted a screenshot of a 25B mod for sale in my auction house (By a cybertech who found the schematic in a hard mode op) but nobody cared. THey just want to go along with the groupthink, and right now they have biochem in their sights... I'll say it once before and I'll say it again; The ONLY problem right now is that BIochem gets their high-level schematics straight from the trainer, whereas every other crew skill has to get drops in Operations. This is giving the appearance of inbalance, when in fact, there really is none. (Except the Rakata Medpack, it needs to be balanced... simply too MUCH healing on too short CD) People seriously need to DROP IT and stop ************. WHo cares if one crew skill provides a marginal advantage over the other? Everything doesn't have to be completely equal. We aren't 4 year old kids fighting over how much kool-aid we got. Why does everything have to be the epitome of balance? Seriously? Take a break, haters. Edited January 13, 2012 by ericdjobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djvapid Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Biochem here I come! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyMe Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Biochem provides immediate, lasting, and noticeable benefits that the other crafting professions don't have. The higher level crafting schematics from other professions require difficult to attain materials which drop in operations, the schematics also drop in operations, and the gear that you attain in said operations (which you can generally get before you can even make something useful) is better than what you can make, also the gear that you get can't be modded with the things you can make. So yes, everyone is switching to Biochem because it is better than everything else. Edited January 13, 2012 by gyMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Alyria Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 On Beregen Colony, and amidst my own guild, I've noticed a trend that everyone who hits level 50 swaps out whatever crew skills they had before for Biochem, stating that, "It's the only skill any good at 50. All the commendation gear and drops are superior to anything that can be crafted, except medpacks and stims." Did I hear wrong when BioWare said crafted items would be superior to drop items? Do folks just not realize that you can discover advanced schematics of items by reverse engineering premium (green) and prototype (blue) versions? I'd like to hear what the designers themselves have to say. Yes. People realize that they can make blue and purple items. When they say the commendation gear is better they mean that it's better than a purple. Diehard Armortechs and Synthweavers have been working on it, trying to figure out if their profession can compete at all with the easily acquired token gear. And the most honest answer I've heard thus far is...sorta...IF you CRIT the purple and add an augment, it's sorta equal to the commendation purples. But it would takes tons and tons of materials, i.e, money and time to get the purple recipe at that level because it seems to be harder to RE the higher a level you are, and on top of that the only pieces that would be equal to the commendation gear would be the very rare purple crit versions. That's a lot of work for something way easier to get by just doing dallies. On the other hand, biochem is an inexhaustible heal, hour long buff, and huge short term buff that stack. It takes a lot to compete with that kind of benefit and gear that is too expensive to make and probably won't sell isn't close to giving up the kind of pvp/pve advantage biochem gives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timidobserver Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It's because most people don't have a brain and can't think on their own; So they come to the forums, take the general hive-mind groupthink, and go with it. They are completely oblivious to the fact that high-end schematics drop in Operations.. why I posted a screenshot of a 25B mod for sale in my auction house (By a cybertech who found the schematic in a hard mode op) but nobody cared. THey just want to go along with the groupthink, and right now they have biochem in their sights... I'll say it once before and I'll say it again; The ONLY problem right now is that BIochem gets their high-level schematics straight from the trainer, whereas every other crew skill has to get drops in Operations. This is giving the appearance of inbalance, when in fact, there really is none. (Except the Rakata Medpack, it needs to be balanced... simply too MUCH healing on too short CD) People seriously need to DROP IT and stop ************. WHo cares if one crew skill provides a marginal advantage over the other? Everything doesn't have to be completely equal. We aren't 4 year old kids fighting over how much kool-aid we got. Why does everything have to be the epitome of balance? Seriously? Take a break, haters. The issue with your post is simple. You have to go in a hard mode operation for the other stuff to be useful. Then you have to be lucky enough for the good stuff to drop. Pre-operation, Biochem is epic. In other words, Biochem is an easy good option, although you are right that after 6 months on the game the others will easily be better than biochem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericdjobs Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The issue with your post is simple. You have to go in a hard mode operation for the other stuff to be useful. Then you have to be lucky enough for the good stuff to drop. Pre-operation, Biochem is epic. In other words, Biochem is an easy good option, although you are right that after 6 months on the game the others will easily be better than biochem. Yes, if you want to craft hard-mode level loot you'll have to visit a hard mode operation. As it is, crafters can craft the BEST items (With the right tier 1 and tier 2 stats, and crit) pre-ops... even better than most heroic gear (again, with the right itemization and crit) As of right now, the chest piece that I have (which is made by an armortech) is better than any mod-able, or item I can get anywhere else outside of ops currently. It's the way the stats are designed on it; Veracity Ultramesh Powered Body Armor [Mastercraft]... Has something like 89 aim, 98 end, 48 shield, 40 accuraccy, 28 absorbation (Augment), 40 defense I can't get stats like that ANYWHERE else right now, it's the best piece I can possibly find for tanking. On top of that, the armor rating is 126 (Equal to epic armoring 23)... so, yes, crafters can make stuff better than comm gear; It just requires reverse engineering the right tier 1 and tier 2 stats as well as a crit. What else do you want? Do you want crafters to be able to make ops-level loot? If that's the case, synthweaving already can with bracers/belt See what I mean? The other crew skills have their benefits; It's just people can't really think on their own and figure out how to make them useful. Also, people are not patient. They want the immediate RIGHT NOW benefit, and of course they choose biochem. It's really sad to see all these people unable to think for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganrax Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It's because most people don't have a brain and can't think on their own; So they come to the forums, take the general hive-mind groupthink, and go with it. They are completely oblivious to the fact that high-end schematics drop in Operations.. why I posted a screenshot of a 25B mod for sale in my auction house (By a cybertech who found the schematic in a hard mode op) but nobody cared. THey just want to go along with the groupthink, and right now they have biochem in their sights... I'll say it once before and I'll say it again; The ONLY problem right now is that BIochem gets their high-level schematics straight from the trainer, whereas every other crew skill has to get drops in Operations. This is giving the appearance of inbalance, when in fact, there really is none. (Except the Rakata Medpack, it needs to be balanced... simply too MUCH healing on too short CD) People seriously need to DROP IT and stop ************. WHo cares if one crew skill provides a marginal advantage over the other? Everything doesn't have to be completely equal. We aren't 4 year old kids fighting over how much kool-aid we got. Why does everything have to be the epitome of balance? Seriously? Take a break, haters. Last I checked tier sets do not drop as schematics, nor does PvP gear. Therefore crafted gear(aside from Rakata recipes you can buy from your trainer) IS inferior to the drops/vendor gear that give you a set bonus. Until they make it so that you can transfer the set bonus and modify armoring on epics(which they said they plan on doing on both accounts), the PvP and PvE gear you buy with commendations/dropped tokens will be much better than anything crafted, even raid dropped recipes. This is why so many people are going Biochem because outside of crafting relics, belts, and wrists for yourself, Biochem is the only truly useful crew skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallifrayen Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 If they are only switching for the medpacks they are saving thousands of credits a day. Plus you can make stims/adrenals that are amazing. Until people start seeing other schematics from raids for other crew skills biochem fills the most needs without having to worry about crafting a whole set of gear, constant REing, crafting a whole set of mods and so on. It really provides the only thing that really costs credits. Medpacks and stims/adrenals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ainrehtea Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I've always been the Apothacary/Biochem in every game but I also hear so much QQ over this. Biochem/Apoth has always been one of the best professions for raiders and selling with high demands on the market. I agree with the OP that people are forgetting that there is raid schematics for BETTER items. If they want to waste their time and money...their problem not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyris_Xiandrii Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It's because most people don't have a brain and can't think on their own; So they come to the forums, take the general hive-mind groupthink, and go with it. Wrong. I decided to drop my 400 slicing, 400 cybertech and 400 scavenging simply because they suck arse. Cybertech gave me nothing useful at all, because you can get better mods from PVP & better earpieces from venders. The only decent thing about cybertech was the CC grenades, but they weren't good enough to justify keeping cybertech. Biochem, on the other hand, is infinitely more useful because it gives RE-USABLE potions which can boost your stats for 2 hours, re-usable medpacks that heal for 4k on a low cooldown and re-usable adrenals that give you +10% crit for 15 seconds. It was a no-brainer. So keep your "derp derp every1 just folows wat dey read on teh interwebz lolo" bullshiz to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazzerswords Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It's because most people don't have a brain and can't think on their own; So they come to the forums, take the general hive-mind groupthink, and go with it. They are completely oblivious to the fact that high-end schematics drop in Operations.. why I posted a screenshot of a 25B mod for sale in my auction house (By a cybertech who found the schematic in a hard mode op) but nobody cared. THey just want to go along with the groupthink, and right now they have biochem in their sights... I'll say it once before and I'll say it again; The ONLY problem right now is that BIochem gets their high-level schematics straight from the trainer, whereas every other crew skill has to get drops in Operations. This is giving the appearance of inbalance, when in fact, there really is none. (Except the Rakata Medpack, it needs to be balanced... simply too MUCH healing on too short CD) People seriously need to DROP IT and stop ************. WHo cares if one crew skill provides a marginal advantage over the other? Everything doesn't have to be completely equal. We aren't 4 year old kids fighting over how much kool-aid we got. Why does everything have to be the epitome of balance? Seriously? Take a break, haters. This this this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericdjobs Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The only problem that I see is that people are COMPLETELY STUCK in the WoW mentality that all crew skills must provide the same exact bonus. This is something wow did late BC early WOTLK.. they normalized all the professions so they all provide roughly the same exact bonus (X amount to stats). A lot of people did not like this change, and did not agree with it. It took a lot of flair and flavor out of the professions; they simply became things you HAVE TO GRIND for a stat increase, not fun crafting skills It does not have to be like this. Every profession does not have to offer some kind of extra bonus on top of what you craft. It looks like WoW spoiled the MMO population. People are so used to crafting being a way to get 'extra stats and bonuses' for your character, and forgot it's actually about creating equipment and items to use. Now, a game comes along with professions that don't all provide an immediate stat bonus for capping them; and people complain like crazy! This isn't WoW. The professions do NOT need to be normalized. If you're strictly using crew skills to try and gain an advantage then that's YOUR PROBLEM, that's not what they were intended for in this game, obviously. Just because one DOES provide an advantage doesn't mean they ALL have to. Why does everything have to be normalized? Play the game, stop worrying about what other people are crafting or what you're missing out on. Have fun and stop trying to get nerfs that will only ruin peoples fun, not achieve any game nirvana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericdjobs Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Wrong. I decided to drop my 400 slicing, 400 cybertech and 400 scavenging simply because they suck arse. Cybertech gave me nothing useful at all, because you can get better mods from PVP & better earpieces from venders. The only decent thing about cybertech was the CC grenades, but they weren't good enough to justify keeping cybertech. Biochem, on the other hand, is infinitely more useful because it gives RE-USABLE potions which can boost your stats for 2 hours, re-usable medpacks that heal for 4k on a low cooldown and re-usable adrenals that give you +10% crit for 15 seconds. It was a no-brainer. So keep your "derp derp every1 just folows wat dey read on teh interwebz lolo" bullshiz to yourself. Cybertech gave you nothing useful at all because THE GAME JUST CAME OUT. You didn't try and get any Operation drops. You didn't wait it out. You switched to the crew skill that gives an advantage RIGHT NOW RIGHT HERE. You were impatient. ^^ This is the problem with the majority of people . They have become incredibly impatient and expect things right NOW. They expect just because they maxxed a profession they should immediately gain some kind of profound advantage. It's supposed to take time; Time to build up useful schematics. Time to get drops of rare and advanced schematics. Why does everything have to happen NOW NOW NOW? Because Biochem's does? You got to 400 in a profession and complained a week later that it didn't offer anything, without even trying to go get what it offered. This is THE MAIN problem. People want their cool toys RIGHT NOW. I'll say it again, for the third time now The only problem with biochem is that their high level schematics are available straight from the trainer, whereas all the other crew skills high level schematics drop and require drops from Operations. The Rakata Medpac is also overpowered in the amount that it heals and the cooldown. That's IT. If all of the epic biochem schematics suddenly became raid drops and required raid materials to craft, we would not see all this ************. People seriously need to get out of the WoW mentality of "Trade skills = Way to boost stats" Edited January 13, 2012 by ericdjobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magaman Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 What's really funny is people flocking to one crafting skill, cause that won't lead to a flooded market of the same stuff and then much lower prices. I don't get it, I haven't had much of an issue making decent credits leveling cybertech. And do you really need 2+ million credits, what exactly will that imaginary currency get you??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auxili Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 medpacks, stims, and adrenals cost credits. A ton of credits, especially over time. gear does not. At all, really. so people go with biochem so they dont have to pay for medpacks, stims, and adrenals anymore. Bioware screwed the pooch on this one. -.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kauhu Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I dont know about you but even if I'm not going to raid I'm just sticking with my lev400 Artifice/Arch. When stuff gets patched in you'll see tons of QQ about "omg *** bioware I dropped my crafting professions @ Jan and NOW you are adding easier-to-gain recipes OMG /cancel" I don't need to make money by crafting, I'm just happy to craft stuff for alts/lowlevels/friends. Drop the WoW mentality of having to grind to max craft level to gain a bonus imho. Crafting in WoW was joke anyways. But that's just my thing, of course if you expected tons of credits to be made at 50 by selling purps then I understand that you're disappointed. Edited January 13, 2012 by Kauhu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenitharPurloin Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Cybertech gave you nothing useful at all because THE GAME JUST CAME OUT. You didn't try and get any Operation drops. You didn't wait it out. You switched to the crew skill that gives an advantage RIGHT NOW RIGHT HERE. You were impatient. ^^ This is the problem with the majority of people . They have become incredibly impatient and expect things right NOW. They expect just because they maxxed a profession they should immediately gain some kind of profound advantage. It's supposed to take time; Time to build up useful schematics. Time to get drops of rare and advanced schematics. Why does everything have to happen NOW NOW NOW? Because Biochem's does? You got to 400 in a profession and complained a week later that it didn't offer anything, without even trying to go get what it offered. This is THE MAIN problem. People want their cool toys RIGHT NOW. I'll say it again, for the third time now The only problem with biochem is that their high level schematics are available straight from the trainer, whereas all the other crew skills high level schematics drop and require drops from Operations. The Rakata Medpac is also overpowered in the amount that it heals and the cooldown. That's IT. If all of the epic biochem schematics suddenly became raid drops and required raid materials to craft, we would not see all this ************. People seriously need to get out of the WoW mentality of "Trade skills = Way to boost stats" Precisely the "nerf" Biochem needs. They would have to re-name the schematics and stims and remove the "easily obtained from vendor" ones from Biochems trainer schematics and everyone's inventory. It would make obtaining EVERY hard-mode/Ops schematic that much harder though, because we couldn't buy the OP stims/medpacks anymore. But what the heck, at least it would balance the crafting profession out. Edited January 13, 2012 by DenitharPurloin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Bad_B Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Personally I fear that a lot of people who switch will be very upset when the crew skills are expanded and updated at a later date - something that's bound to happen eventually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthrider Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 BioChem is the only useful skill for PvP. You can't craft Expertise items. No schematic for anything with Expertise is lootable. Therefore, Biochem is the only PvP skill. It also means that if youre not Biochem (and thus don't have the extra heal) you are at a SEVERE disadvantage in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haralin Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Make other Crewskills better Armstech + damage on Weapon for 7 days Armortech + armor on armor for 7 days and so on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakokun Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The problem is that these items are exclusive to biochem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotLAsmodian Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Picking Biochem was a no brainer for me, the thing I hated about wow most is farming gold to get ready for raids. As I am certain pots and flasks will become a requirement for serious ops groups, biochem with its reusable flask,pot and stim sets me free from all that crap. In addition you get to make gold by selling the 1 use version to non Biochems. But I am quite certain that other proffesions will provide certain advantages, I remember when Burning Crusade came out, all arms warriors switched to weaponsmith so that they could get acess to the craftable 2 handers. I do not think any nerf is needed diffrent proffesions will apeal to diffrent mindset. Sure biotech is appealing of the bat, but as soon as the next uber pattern drops that creates a bop item we will see certain classes switching to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exphryl Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I started doing some operations finally, and I'm tempted to switch to BioChem now. This is PURELY due to the cost of Stims on Daragon Trail's GTN. An End/Def Stim (I'm a tank) that persists through death goes for about 35K. Since I wanted to be prepared I bought two and some health patcks, this totaled me 100k for a small operations run. That in my head, adds up pretty fast =/ Not to mention the medpacks come in handy anywhere. I am still deliberating though. I"m making so much bank on Cybertech Ship Parts (i craft zero, nothing else) I might just level that on an ALT to still make them. But then if we start doing Hard Mode OPs I don't want the gear to go to waste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demorase Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Spent thousands of credits to level up artifice to 400, what did I get? Nothing. The hilts are useless because you can get the same from flashpoints or commendations, same thing with shields and offhands, and mods (even if you reverse engineer). I literally spent thousands and thousands of credits to be able to craft useless garbage, which is less than ideal I have to say So yeah, nothing else to add Edited January 13, 2012 by Demorase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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