WHY Some people have trouble in PVE

[Inraika]

I believe that the main reason the community is so divided on the sentinel (in terms of PVE) Is because of one thing.

 

Gear.

 

In almost every single post about the subject, one underlying fact that seems to occur is that those defending the sentinels PvE ability are in great gear, and those who are having problems, are in almost all green gear.

 

That's the difference.

 

But its a problem, other classes find questing easy while being in bad gear, ours only finds it easy in good gear.

[RamzaBehoulve]

All melee have the same problem.

 

Armor is important in this game, don't underestimate it or you'll regret it soon enough.

[Inraika]

All melee have the same problem.

 

Armor is important in this game, don't underestimate it or you'll regret it soon enough.

 

Indeed, but sentinels have a harder time being under-geared then the other classes.

[Riven]

Gear is important, agreed, but what I found to be a key factor in all PvE situations that were challenging was the fact that you actually need to use your defensive abilities VERY efficiently. A few well timed interupts can make all the difference in a fight.

[Inraika]

Gear is important, agreed, but what I found to be a key factor in all PvE situations that were challenging was the fact that you actually need to use your defensive abilities VERY efficiently. A few well timed interupts can make all the difference in a fight.

 

This is also important, but I've read a lot of threads where:

 

Person A: Is doing everything right but can't seem to beat said enemy

 

and

 

Person B: Is wearing orange gear and is doing everything right, beats enemy no problem, then proceeds to say person A has no skill in the game.

 

The point is, these "Person B's" say you suck at the game, sentinel is fine, and you're doing everything wrong. While the only actual thing dividing the two players in their gear.

 

This proves that there is indeed something wrong with the class.

 

I can provide my own bit of personal experience.

 

Darth Angral was a tough boss, I interrupted fine, if not perfect, used every CD I had, and still had trouble with him at level. Then I went out and bought some good orange at level gear (Or acquired it through flashpoints, etc..) And I was able to take him down significantly easier.

[Riven]

This is also important, but I've read a lot of threads where:

 

Person A: Is doing everything right but can't seem to beat said enemy

 

and

 

Person B: Is wearing orange gear and is doing everything right, beats enemy no problem, then proceeds to say person A has no skill in the game.

 

The point is, these "Person B's" say you suck at the game, sentinel is fine, and you're doing everything wrong. While the only actual thing dividing the two players in their gear.

 

This proves that there is indeed something wrong with the class.

 

I can provide my own bit of personal experience.

 

Darth Angral was a tough boss, I interrupted fine, if not perfect, used every CD I had, and still had trouble with him at level. Then I went out and bought some good orange at level gear (Or acquired it through flashpoints, etc..) And I was able to take him down significantly easier.

 

Ok I guess I was geared better than I thought My first priority has been orange gear from the begining, though for me it was much more about aesthetics than anything else.

I have ONLY spent planet comendations on mods for my armor and weapons and have at no point bought anything in addition to that. So for me it never felt like my gear was especially good.

 

My point was more a long the line that I do not consider myself to be a "good" player by any means. I also struggled with Darth Angral. For me it wasn't the gear it was the fact that up until that point I was never required to actually utilize many of the defensive abilities. Saber ward and Rebuke was mostly enough for any and every fight up unitl Angral. I never interupted anything up until him. So I guess while I had OK gear I sucked at actualy playing Sents. Opposite problem, but same results.

[Bruden]

This proves that there is indeed something wrong with the class.

 

I can provide my own bit of personal experience.

 

Darth Angral was a tough boss, I interrupted fine, if not perfect, used every CD I had, and still had trouble with him at level. Then I went out and bought some good orange at level gear (Or acquired it through flashpoints, etc..) And I was able to take him down significantly easier.

 

I am a bit confused by your post. On one hand you agree and give personal experience that Sents/Mars are gear dependent but then claim it's an issue with the class. I don't think gear dependancy is a flaw, in some ways it's actually a virtue.

 

The best example I can think of is, and I apologize to those who hate references to this game , the WoW DPS warrior. Similar to the Sentinel warrior leveling was pretty rough if your gear wasn't exceptional, but you utterly obliterated mobs if geared well. Your experiences prove this... Undergeared you couldn't kill him... Geared out zero problem at all.

 

It may suck to level, but I believe we are going to be one of if not the best class when it comes to being decked out in epics. It's a double edged sword, but I'd rather be heavily gear reliant than have a new piece of gear barely affect me.

 

An example of this is the enhance shaman in early Cataclysm. At fresh 85 they did mind blowing dps compared to almost all other classes. Then as people got geared out more and more, their dps increased dramatically whereas the enhance shaman got little benefit from gear. I think it was something like enhance doing 18kish dps compared to other classes doing 15kish... then at the end of the tier enhance doing 22kish compared to other classes doing 24-25kish.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Bruden

[Inraika]

I am a bit confused by your post. On one hand you agree and give personal experience that Sents/Mars are gear dependent but then claim it's an issue with the class. I don't think gear dependancy is a flaw, in some ways it's actually a virtue.

 

The best example I can think of is, and I apologize to those who hate references to this game , the WoW DPS warrior. Similar to the Sentinel warrior leveling was pretty rough if your gear wasn't exceptional, but you utterly obliterated mobs if geared well. Your experiences prove this... Undergeared you couldn't kill him... Geared out zero problem at all.

 

It may suck to level, but I believe we are going to be one of if not the best class when it comes to being decked out in epics. It's a double edged sword, but I'd rather be heavily gear reliant than have a new piece of gear barely affect me.

 

An example of this is the enhance shaman in early Cataclysm. At fresh 85 they did mind blowing dps compared to almost all other classes. Then as people got geared out more and more, their dps increased dramatically whereas the enhance shaman got little benefit from gear. I think it was something like enhance doing 18kish dps compared to other classes doing 15kish... then at the end of the tier enhance doing 22kish compared to other classes doing 24-25kish.

 

Mhm, this is exactly my point.

 

I think you just misunderstood what I meant when I said it was a class problem, Its a problem with the class because in comparison to the other classes it is dependent on gear, which means its abilities, or damage, isn't as good as the other classes. This in turn makes it a class problem.

[Vibeth]

It's gear and level.

 

 

I'm pretty sure about this. I am always 3 levels above content and PvE is easy. Valis was a cake walk (did it on lvl 27), Angral was a cakewalk (did it on lvl 33).

[madjiuce]

U shouldn't have to go out and buy orange hear the HC's on every planet provide it so you must be skipping them which will make players weaker.

 

I admit that compared to the faceroll style of the trooper that i can play with my eyes closed, the Sentinel is a bit more challenging and require full attention most of the time but its no more difficult to play then my ret pally is in wow. I think new players may find it a bit tricky but anyone who played a mmo at raid level should have no complaints about how the rotation is, its pretty standard.

 

Also although i may have about 30 moves assigned i rarely use more than 8 per fight, 7 attack and 1 type of my 6 def/mitigation abilities.

 

From lvl35+ the game is easy as Sentinel, thats about when you get your healer, if your struggling before that reroll sith warrior they get a healer 10 lvls earlier

[flowqz]

Gear is important, agreed, but what I found to be a key factor in all PvE situations that were challenging was the fact that you actually need to use your defensive abilities VERY efficiently. A few well timed interupts can make all the difference in a fight.

 

yesterday at gharj nightmare i just did literally nothing chilling at range cause of his 7k stomps (just) in melee range every few seconds... pretty nice encounter.

 

bonetrasher hardmode just feels the same way... while ranged can just chill on their position u have to always run beeing aware of his "hey lets turn around and insta cleave/stomp" ****.

 

i really dont know how u could even raid without the 30% less aoe dmg taken.

Edited January 13, 2012 by flowqz

[Rakimou]

Sents have many gameplay issues, but solo PVE is not one of them.

Make sure to:

1) Outlevel your content by 2-3 levels all the time. If your quests are catching up, do space dailies and PVP.

2) Gear up with commendation and PVP gear as much as possible.

3) Optimize your damage rotations to inflict maximum damage, especially on lower levels.

4) Interrupt ****!

5) Once pacify and force stasis are available, use them extensively to mitigate incoming damage from powerful foes.

6) Doc.

7) Feel the force.

 

Cheers.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Rakimou

[Lancerx]

I believe that the main reason the community is so divided on the sentinel (in terms of PVE) Is because of one thing.

 

Gear.

 

In almost every single post about the subject, one underlying fact that seems to occur is that those defending the sentinels PvE ability are in great gear, and those who are having problems, are in almost all green gear.

 

That's the difference.

 

But its a problem, other classes find questing easy while being in bad gear, ours only finds it easy in good gear.

 

Gear makes a huge difference. In beta I did ok but after playing beta for 5 months I learned allot. So when the Game went live I leveled a few toons to 25 before I really started working on my Sentinel, which was my main. I had a Commando and Shadow to 25 also. The reason I did this was so I could log in and out while playing, setting my alts to crafting missions. I took Cybertech and Artifice and Biochem. This allowed me to always have blue quality mods/armoring/ehancements on my Sentinel every other level and I kept epic hilts on my Character every 2-3 levels also. Also allowed me to make an incredible amount of credits selling stuff on auction house, but that is besides the point.

 

Having full blue mods and epic hilts for my character and my companion made the leveling so easy. I was able to easily solo heroics, and at times once I got Doc, solo some heroic 4+. You can not underestimate how awesome it was to have a full set of mods and hilts to level with. I don't believe it is needed at all, because iv done it before without the gear, and my situation may be an extreme but I can vouch how much gear really does help. You really should never be in quest greens at all. If you cant afford to buy mods/hilts off the auction house, then you should be able to buy them with commendations easily enough. I hope this helps, good luck.

[flowqz]

Sents have many gameplay issues, but solo PVE is not one of them.

Make sure to:

1) Outlevel your content by 2-3 levels all the time. If your quests are catching up, do space dailies and PVP.

2) Gear up with commendation and PVP gear as much as possible.

3) Optimize your damage rotations to inflict maximum damage, especially on lower levels.

4) Interrupt ****!

5) Once pacify and force stasis are available, use them extensively to mitigate incoming damage from powerful foes.

6) Doc.

7) Feel the force.

 

Cheers.

 

"solo pve is not one of them"

 

i dunno but i guess u dont have to do this things on ranged classes... that said the sentinel seems to have a lower leveling speed.

[Inraika]

Sents have many gameplay issues, but solo PVE is not one of them.

Make sure to:

1) Outlevel your content by 2-3 levels all the time. If your quests are catching up, do space dailies and PVP.

2) Gear up with commendation and PVP gear as much as possible.

3) Optimize your damage rotations to inflict maximum damage, especially on lower levels.

4) Interrupt ****!

5) Once pacify and force stasis are available, use them extensively to mitigate incoming damage from powerful foes.

6) Doc.

7) Feel the force.

 

Cheers.

 

Wait a second...

 

"solo PVE is not one of them"

 

"1) Outlevel your content by 2-3 levels all the time. If your quests are catching up, do space dailies and PVP."

 

This is a complete and utter contradiction... I'm assuming you did it on purpose to prove a point?

 

Because, having to out level your class content to complete it does in fact mean there is solo gameplay issue. If we need to be 3 levels over our content to complete it, then thats a major issue considering no other class has to, also, relying on Doc should not be the only thing that helps us out, we get more companions later for a reason.

 

If youre geared at level, you can beat at level content, but its still very challenging.

If youre not, you will fall far behind, whereas with other classes, they don't need to be geared and can simply faceroll any of their at level content, not really concerned with gear.

[Stefan_Payne]

Skilling is another point.

 

Until I reskilled my sentinel to Watchman, I had a hard time too. Now with the Watchman skilling I don't have no problems anymore. So that's another point you forgot to mention.

 

But still: the watchman isn't easy to play, you have to use at least 5 to 10 abilitys on a regular basis (like overload saber, Master Strike, Cauterize, Merciless slash and Force Stasis).

 

But if you do it right, you can really rock, at least in a normal PVE Game.

[Anelyn]

I defeated darth angral without any problems, he only got 1 cast off, and that was at my companion. I am wearing 80% orange with up to date mods, rest blues, same Kira (she actually has a better weapon than myself, lucky girl). I send kira in, leaped on his 1st cast, interrupted 2nd while doing my burst rotation, snare and move out of range for next leap to interrupt, use force camo to cancel his cast and redirect him at companion, use pacify etc.

 

Yes you have to use a hp pot or regen after couple fights - normal mobs leveling, 1 strong mixed in or 2. But that's fine, you're not supposed to walk through content and everything melt when you cyclone slash as you pass by

 

Gear is vital to leveling success. I met so many peeps ignoring it, some not wearing implants or ear or relics by lvl 34+ on the excuse that they level too fast and have to replace them. That's a huge stats loss right there....

 

You also need to have a good understanding at class mechanics, know your abilities, when to use them ie: proactive or reactive, if you pop blade ward at 20% hp vs a mob who's spamming internal / elemental dmg into you, it will do you no good etc.

 

I saw a jedi runing around on tatooine at 30+ without a speeder coz he was wasting his money to research all low lvl epic recipes....

 

Am not saying sent are perfect, it takes a while to get used with animations and gcd (most annoying for me is when I force sweep, and my char is getting hit, and she jumps, nothing happens lands back, then jumps and actually fires the skill ~3s since activation), but they are playable alright and I defo enjoy mine.

[Inraika]

I defeated darth angral without any problems, he only got 1 cast off, and that was at my companion. I am wearing 80% orange with up to date mods, rest blues, same Kira (she actually has a better weapon than myself, lucky girl). I send kira in, leaped on his 1st cast, interrupted 2nd while doing my burst rotation, snare and move out of range for next leap to interrupt, use force camo to cancel his cast and redirect him at companion, use pacify etc.

 

Yes you have to use a hp pot or regen after couple fights - normal mobs leveling, 1 strong mixed in or 2. But that's fine, you're not supposed to walk through content and everything melt when you cyclone slash as you pass by

 

Gear is vital to leveling success. I met so many peeps ignoring it, some not wearing implants or ear or relics by lvl 34+ on the excuse that they level too fast and have to replace them. That's a huge stats loss right there....

 

You also need to have a good understanding at class mechanics, know your abilities, when to use them ie: proactive or reactive, if you pop blade ward at 20% hp vs a mob who's spamming internal / elemental dmg into you, it will do you no good etc.

 

I saw a jedi runing around on tatooine at 30+ without a speeder coz he was wasting his money to research all low lvl epic recipes....

 

Am not saying sent are perfect, it takes a while to get used with animations and gcd (most annoying for me is when I force sweep, and my char is getting hit, and she jumps, nothing happens lands back, then jumps and actually fires the skill ~3s since activation), but they are playable alright and I defo enjoy mine.

 

 

" I am wearing 80% orange with up to date mods, rest blues, same Kira (she actually has a better weapon than myself, lucky girl)."

 

This is why you didn't have any problems with him.

[Rankaze]

Do y'all expect a melee DPS class to *not* be heavily gear dependent?

 

I've never played a melee DPS class in any MMO that wasn't. Ret pallies, DPS warriors, and combat rogues (I never played any other kind of rogue, so can't speak for them) in WoW are very gear dependent, or at least they were back when I played WoW. All DPS classes in FFXI are heavily gear dependent. Scrappers in CoH can be very squishy with base enhancements but are unkillable monsters when loaded out with top-end stuff.

 

Gear dependency is part of playing a melee DPS. As others have already noted, it's necessary, because if you aren't gear dependent your damage won't scale properly in the endgame. In this case, it really is a feature, not a problem.

 

For what it's worth, though, don't assume that other classes *aren't* gear dependent. My Defense-spec Guardian (yes, I have two Knights... and a Sith Warrior, too) is obviously very gear-dependent. On my Gunslinger, not only is my gear crucial to my success, but my *companion's* gear is, too.

 

It's also possible that some of the troubles some people are having may be related to that. Are you using T7? Are you gearing him in the basic greens you get from quests? Yeah, you're gonna die a lot. Tank companions need higher quality gear to be effective, otherwise they are too fragile.

[flowqz]

Do y'all expect a melee DPS class to *not* be heavily gear dependent?

 

I've never played a melee DPS class in any MMO that wasn't. Ret pallies, DPS warriors, and combat rogues (I never played any other kind of rogue, so can't speak for them) in WoW are very gear dependent, or at least they were back when I played WoW. All DPS classes in FFXI are heavily gear dependent. Scrappers in CoH can be very squishy with base enhancements but are unkillable monsters when loaded out with top-end stuff.

 

Gear dependency is part of playing a melee DPS. As others have already noted, it's necessary, because if you aren't gear dependent your damage won't scale properly in the endgame. In this case, it really is a feature, not a problem.

 

For what it's worth, though, don't assume that other classes *aren't* gear dependent. My Defense-spec Guardian (yes, I have two Knights... and a Sith Warrior, too) is obviously very gear-dependent. On my Gunslinger, not only is my gear crucial to my success, but my *companion's* gear is, too.

 

It's also possible that some of the troubles some people are having may be related to that. Are you using T7? Are you gearing him in the basic greens you get from quests? Yeah, you're gonna die a lot. Tank companions need higher quality gear to be effective, otherwise they are too fragile.

 

the "need gear to deal dmg" part may take effect in wow cause:

 

with more gear melees got more resources (nowadays haste effects energy regen, rune generation, rage) + it affected autoattacks + triggered their passives since classic (deep wounds on the warrior, poisons on the rogue). so haste and crit improved their styles + autoattacks.

 

this certainly isnt the case in swtor, cause u dont just autoattack while u style. that said every melee just plays like a caster. u dont deal anydmg/your whole dmg is around gcds. this means melees are like casters, dealing dmg every gcd but nothing in between.

 

thats why melees wont scale this hard

Edited January 13, 2012 by flowqz

[Vember]

If you don't have good gear and outlevel the content on your Jedi Shadow, you'll have the same problems as the Sentinel.

[Dagimpster]

I am 45 and i have just upgraded my gear, before that i was wearing gear that i didn't touch since about 34. Doc healing me and i took out almost everything easily, its a cake walk now that i upgraded my gear but anyone who is having trouble with this class its a L2P issue its that simple.

 

And the L2P means more learn to change your style of play to sets or pick a class that is your play style.

[FobManX]

The only hard part about PVE is the final class quest, which BW has already admitted is vastly overtuned and will be nerfed.

[Inraika]

The only hard part about PVE is the final class quest, which BW has already admitted is vastly overtuned and will be nerfed.

 

You can't ignore the other threads in this forum saying they are having trouble.

 

And to those who have said all melee DPS are gear dependant:

 

This may be true, but for thsoe who have never perhaps played a melee DPS, or this is their first MMO, or they've played other classes and have switched to this.

 

For the person who said they have the same problem on their Shadow, I can't see how since my partner can play one and have great reults, in green gear, and this is her FIRST video game experience.

[Mahoukenshi]

The gear dependancy is a huge turn-off for me. My only orange equipment are the few quest rewards in early level range (i. e. <25) and I use my commodation marks for the suggested modification upgrades. Plus I don't have the "skill", motivation or too stable internet connection to run hardmode flashpoints flawlessly (if you get most orange stuff from there, ignoring global trade station-thingy). But, I will see how far my bad luck will lead me . Glad to have read this topic in time.