This game takes travelling back 7 years

[Kasperion]

immersion is becoming tedium in the extreme

immersion is becoming an excuse for common sense.

These.

 

Can you believe that there's actually people arguing in favor of pointless inconvenience, and using "immersion" as justification?

 

If there was some point to the waiting, I certainly wouldn't be complaining. But immersion for immersion's sake? Even hardcore RP'ers would tell you that it's a waste. Immersion is like "The Game", it only works when you don't notice it. The moment you recognize it, you lose it. Kind of like how you sometimes wake up the moment you realize you're dreaming.

 

Saying that the pointlessness of the ship->airlock->station->planet fiasco helps with immersion is disingenuous. You know it's stupid and pointless. There's no reason to defend it, and you look foolish doing so.

[Knyghtprowler]

I don't get this thread.

 

You get sprint at level 12. Speeder at 25. Travel 7 years ago was much worse on the games I've played.

 

Getting through the airlock takes 20 seconds. Can you really not handle that?

 

This post is a joke - 20 seconds? really?

 

-Ok I finish a quest and have to leave the planet

-I need to get on my speeder and zoom back to my closest taxi point if I can't fast travel (which involves another load screen when use it)

-Then I need to taxi to the shuttle port

-Then I need to speeder to the shuttle "building"

-Can't speeder inside them so NOW I get to hoof it to the elevator

-Run to my ship

-Zone into my ship

-Walk to the Galaxy map Pick a destination

-Zone to it (spamming space bar to skip CS's)

-Now Im in an airlock need to elevator agian

-Next is the orbital station zoning

-Now I am at my destination

-Walk through the base to exit the shuttle port

 

20 seconds makes it sound like travel in this game is very easy and care free.. pffft.

 

In Wow I click my bind stone and poof im in town.

 

1 click vs. dozens of clicks is not step in the right direction if you ask me...

 

1 minute travel times vs. what 5+? If I did this 5 times a night you are talking about almost a half hour doing nothing productive...

Edited January 12, 2012 by Knyghtprowler

[Kahldor]

These.

 

Can you believe that there's actually people arguing in favor of pointless inconvenience, and using "immersion" as justification?

 

If there was some point to the waiting, I certainly wouldn't be complaining. But immersion for immersion's sake? Even hardcore RP'ers would tell you that it's a waste. Immersion is like "The Game", it only works when you don't notice it. The moment you recognize it, you lose it. Kind of like how you sometimes wake up the moment you realize you're dreaming.

 

Saying that the pointlessness of the ship->airlock->station->planet fiasco helps with immersion is disingenuous. You know it's stupid and pointless. There's no reason to defend it, and you look foolish doing so.

 

Very well said. I think the people defending it just want to argue or don't play enough to realize it gets old and breaks immersion.

[photometrik]

I would argue that Orbital Stations are not made for RP purposes, but rather to facilitate the 4 elevators needed to get the various classes to their airlocks. Also, some minor quest events happen in them.

 

I don't necessarily approve of their inclusion, I just don't think they are only includer for the RP.

 

Edit: In my personal experience, space doesn't convert to an MMO well because having multiple planets of several thousand square feet makes no sense.

 

I can definitely see that this is their purpose, but it would be nice if they were a bit more diversified, and had something to do while there instead of simple being there as points of convergence for 4 different classes. Essentially treat them like Mass Effect treats elevators as loading screens, but in an MMO sense. For instance, maybe put the vendors there for planet-specific Specialty Goods, Commendation Gear, Social Items, and all that good stuff. Just a thought...

[TheHeadCapper]

be prepared to get bombarded by tons of fanboys who "thinkz thez travelllingz inz thizzz gaym izzz epiczzzzxzxzxzxz!!!!!11!!!"

 

It's okay to not be threatened or get angry when someone has a different opinon than you.

[SOONERFREAK]

Yeah quick path to ship would be great, nothing worse in this game then wrapping up a planet at 2am and knowing I have a long trip back to my ship.

[Baracca]

IF they added a taxi right outside the elevator to the ship AND remove the ship hanger, this would be awesome.

 

The space station elevator click should make you load you straight into the ship.

 

EDIT - at a minimum, allow us to mount in the space stations and hangers

Edited January 12, 2012 by Baracca

[VicScotia]

Yeah lets just stick teleporters everywhere...make traveling faster.

 

While BW is at it, they should replace the lightsabers with fecking phasers and then call the game STAR TREK: ONLINE 2...

 

...sheesh, what, you all have such a busy lifestyle you cant press that arrow key down for longer than 30 seconds?

[imtrick]

In Wow I click my bind stone and poof im in town.

 

You say this like WoW has a better system or something, when in fact it doesn't even have the flexibility of this game's Quick Travel, which gives you multiple destination options with the same cooldown as WoW's hearthstones.

 

I can sympathize with people who want faster travel, but really? No way are you going to convince me that hearthstones are anywhere near as convenient as quick travel, and once you throw in stuff like fleet passes, travel in this game's a breeze compared to WoW (unless, of course, you carry a mage in your pocket).

Edited January 12, 2012 by imtrick

[photometrik]

These.

 

Can you believe that there's actually people arguing in favor of pointless inconvenience, and using "immersion" as justification?

 

If there was some point to the waiting, I certainly wouldn't be complaining. But immersion for immersion's sake? Even hardcore RP'ers would tell you that it's a waste. Immersion is like "The Game", it only works when you don't notice it. The moment you recognize it, you lose it. Kind of like how you sometimes wake up the moment you realize you're dreaming.

 

Saying that the pointlessness of the ship->airlock->station->planet fiasco helps with immersion is disingenuous. You know it's stupid and pointless. There's no reason to defend it, and you look foolish doing so.

 

This is actually my opinion as well, to be perfectly honest. The method of travel as it currently exists breaks immersion more than it creates it. Thank you for saying that.

[dmanlong]

I think the current travel system is fine the way it is.

 

Good Job Bio-ware.

[Jswizzle]

This post is a joke - 20 seconds? really?

 

-Ok I finish a quest and have to leave the planet

-I need to get on my speeder and zoom back to my closest taxi point if I can't fast travel (which involves another load screen when use it)

-Then I need to taxi to the shuttle port

-Then I need to speeder to the shuttle "building"

-Can't speeder inside them so NOW I get to hoof it to the elevator

-Run to my ship

-Zone into my ship

-Walk to the Galaxy map Pick a destination

-Zone to it (spamming space bar to skip CS's)

-Now Im in an airlock need to elevator agian

-Next is the orbital station zoning

-Now I am at my destination

-Walk through the base to exit the shuttle port

 

20 seconds makes it sound like travel in this game is very easy and care free.. pffft.

 

In Wow I click my bind stone and poof im in town.

 

1 click vs. dozens of clicks is not step in the right direction if you ask me...

 

1 minute travel times vs. what 5+? If I did this 5 times a night you are talking about almost a half hour doing nothing productive...

 

So you compare all the things you have to do when you don't have quick travel up, but you compare it to when you have your wow bind stone up?

 

What's travel like in WOW without bind stone up? You got to hoof it don't you. Welcome to MMOs

[Aloro]

there's no need for these "airlocks" you have to run through, just cut them out completely and have your ship area connect directly to the station or whatever you are on, with no loading screen between them, just have a green portal which phases it for each person. and allow speeders in spaceports and stations. fixed.

 

Well, they do serve several purposes actually. First and foremost, getting a spaceship is pretty exciting at first, and on each of my chars I've happily circled around my ship in the hangar, having a good look at it. Second, some stories do take place in the hangars.

 

Having said that, sure, I'd like to have an option to skip the hangar bay most of the time and go straight to my ships. I'd also be ok with having an Emergency Ship Pass with an 18h cooldown to pop me back in my ship. Similarly, I'd be ok with an Emergency Ground Pass which takes you to a preset bind point... but it'd need a long cooldown I'd say. Once a day sounds about right, although 24h timers have the insidious effect of running later and later every day (since nobody uses them immediately upon the timer running out), so I'd suggest something that's functionally once a day, but practically speaking allows a bit of flexibility in use.

 

Say 18 hours?

[vinnia]

knyghtpowler are u serious..? in wow uve like non loading screen, if u want to go from sw to other city dude.. flying on ur 280 or 310 mount takes way longer. if u need to go to lets say searing gorge. flying takes longer

[Knyghtprowler]

So you compare all the things you have to do when you don't have quick travel up, but you compare it to when you have your wow bind stone up?

 

What's travel like in WOW without bind stone up? You got to hoof it don't you. Welcome to MMOs

 

If my quick travel wasnt up the only the thing I would skip is the speeder to the shuttle.

 

If you mean fleet pass - Then once per day I can use that to go to the fleet and save "some" of the steps.

 

Now that you mention it no - I didn't hoof it because I was Eng. and had multiple forms of transportation (ie: wormhole generator)

 

I also had guild items that functioned as bind stones.

 

I also had 15 minute cooldown (vs. 16 hours in SWTOR) on my bind because of my max level guild.

 

The only saving grace that I have now is my 1 hour cooldown fleet pass via authentication vendors. Like I said before - there are STILL multiple steps involved either way.

 

I never walked in wow. If I was forced to "fly" since the world was seemless I could still mount up and fly and break neck speed compared to swotor and reach my destination faster than it would take to do what we have to do here.

 

MY POINT was that 20 seconds is a JOKE compared to what you really have to do through to travel in this game - not my MANY forms of travel in WoW.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Knyghtprowler

[DarthSublimitas]

I do not come to the forums much. I'd rather be in game, but I am starting to agree with the people who say that there needs to be an easier way to get around and be around others. The constant loading screens when you are trying to travel is annoying and archaic.

 

• Many games used to pride themselves on seamless worlds. SWTOR spits in the face of a seamless world. By making you and your group mates take 3 forms of transportation to party up.
  

 

• Sharding makes the world feel more empty. Even more so since server populations have started to diminish. Having to "load screen" to join your group is ridiculous.
  

 

• Having to run through 3 sreens to get back and forth to your ship is overkill. Yes it is immersive and believable, but there is a fine balance between that and functionally convenient.
  

 

My suggestions would be to eliminate SOME of the load screen opportunities and eliminate sharding. This game has too much potential for it to die by way of an archaic travel system. It feels like the birthchild of Mass Effect and Kotor. Both great games. Both with tons of loading screens during travel.

 

 

One answer: Hero Engine. A gaming engine specifically meant for instanced games.

[Kasperion]

Yeah lets just stick teleporters everywhere...make traveling faster.

Here's an idea: Stop arguing like a child. Just because somebody says they hate vanilla ice cream doesn't mean they are advocating chocolate. Using such exaggerations and putting words into other people's mouths to bolster your position is juvenile, don't do it.

 

Of course we shouldn't put teleporters everywhere, and of course travel shouldn't be instant all over the galaxy. If you would stop being so determined to argue, you would notice that not a single person was advocating completely instantaneous travel everywhere in the game.

 

That does not mean, though, that the current setup isn't ridiculous. It is. And you know it. It's just as ridiculous as the other end of the spectrum (instant travel everywhere) would be.

 

There has to be a balance between the two. The way it is currently leans too far towards inconvenience. Instant travel everywhere leans too far towards convenience. There has to be a middle ground.

[vinnia]

If my quick travel wasnt up the only the thing I would skip is the speeder to the shuttle.

 

If you mean fleet pass - Then once per day I can use that to go to the fleet and save "some" of the steps.

 

Now that you mention it no - I didn't hoof it because I was Eng. and had multiple forms of transportation (ie: wormhole generator)

 

I also had guild items that functioned as bind stones.

 

I also had 15 minute cooldown (vs. 16 hours in SWTOR) on my bind because of my max level guild.

 

The only saving grace that I have now is my 1 hour cooldown fleet pass via authentication vendors. Like I said before - there are STILL multiple steps involved either way.

 

I never walked in wow. If I was forced to "fly" since the world was seemless I could still mount up and fly and break neck speed compared to swotor and reach my destination faster than it would take to do what we have to do here.

 

MY POINT was that 20 seconds is a JOKE compared to what you really have to do through to travel in this game - not my MANY forms of travel in WoW.

 

What i stated traveling in wow takes way longer. take a flight path from hyjal to darkshore. 10/15 min flight

 

EDIT: the time when u are traveling in your ship only takes 5 secs, should be longer like 5min orso. how further planet how longer. more realistic

Edited January 12, 2012 by vinnia

[Jswizzle]

He never walked in WOW??

 

Did you buy your maxed out toon with mounts and all that stuff?

[RocNessMonster]

Sharding is the most assinine idea to have ever come to an MMO, and it's ridiculous that BioWare actually decided to use it -- especially since we're already split up into planets, making worlds feel empty as it is.

 

 

You obviously never played some of the older MMOs. Nothing like forming a group to grind some xp and finding that every leveling spot is full and no way to do anything about it.

[Redorbz]

While in beta, I tried really hard to communicate this to the developers through ingame reports, out of game questionnaires, and even private emails to Bioware. It fell on deaf ears I guess, but I was batting for you then, and I still am. I just hope Bio/EA wakes up soon, or they will wake up to tumbleweeds.

 

 

Travel gets old pretty quick when your moving around frequently. considering that to go from A to B requires the following steps...

 

1) Travel to port

2) Walk/Run (no-speeders allowed) through port to elevator

3) Take elevator to private hanger

4) Travel through hanger to ship

5) Enter Ship (load screen)

6) Ship take-off cinematic (spacebar)

7) Run to galaxy map

8) Select map, then select planet once map loads

9) Travel

10) Walk/Run to exit of ship

11) Leave ship (load screen)

12) Ship landing cinematic (spacebar)

13) Walk/Run through hanger to elevator

14) Take elevator from hanger to public port

15) Walk/Run (no-speeders allowed) from public port out into the actual zone (planet)

 

 

 

Did I forget a step?

 

Edit: Most of the time Im not traveling frequently. Im staying in one area for a few hours at least. I stayed on Korriban and Balmorra for a few days each. But as I level Ive found my desire to travel more has increased.

 

Half of the process I dont mind, and having a private hanger is nice. I like having the hanger in addition to my ship. But overall the process seems to take too many steps. I dont know what Id cut out if I had to choose, but there must be a way to shorten the process.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Redorbz

[Valanze]

I agree.

 

I posted this awhile back and was told that I need to learn to be more patient or learn to use the available travel options better.

 

What I really do not get is why I have to land my ship on a space station. Run through the airlock. Exit the airlock to run to another ship. Then to finally land on the ground?? Why do I have a ship again and why can't I land it on the planet? Loading is ok loading typically for me goes fast except for new planets sometimes for whatever reason its a little longer. I just want more efficency in travel like you. Can't I just land on the planet? Why can't I catch a speeder to my next quest location. True I may never have been to the planet but couldn't it be good to get a quest that takes you to the speeder point and he says "Oh you need to go to X. First time on planet? Hop on I will get you there." maybe not all areas but some HOTH I am looking angrily at you. Also Please Please increase mount speed AGAIN HOTH I am so angrily looking at you.

[Kahldor]

I agree.

 

I posted this awhile back and was told that I need to learn to be more patient or learn to use the available travel options better.

 

What I really do not get is why I have to land my ship on a space station. Run through the airlock. Exit the airlock to run to another ship. Then to finally land on the ground?? Why do I have a ship again and why can't I land it on the planet? Loading is ok loading typically for me goes fast except for new planets sometimes for whatever reason its a little longer. I just want more efficency in travel like you. Can't I just land on the planet? Why can't I catch a speeder to my next quest location. True I may never have been to the planet but couldn't it be good to get a quest that takes you to the speeder point and he says "Oh you need to go to X. First time on planet? Hop on I will get you there." maybe not all areas but some HOTH I am looking angrily at you. Also Please Please increase mount speed AGAIN HOTH I am so angrily looking at you.

 

Its funny that you bring up Hoth. It was at this point I began to get frustrated with the system. And going back and levelling an alt through the same system of travel seems boring.

 

Like someone said earlier... They want this game to be like a movie with all these cutscenes, but in what movie have you seen characters continually running down corridors, taking elevators, running through a spaceport, boarding a ship, selecting a planet, leaving the ship... you get my drift. If you watched Episode I-VI and they showed all that boring crap, you would think it was the worst saga ever.

 

Like I said, I am not advocating instant travel everywhere, just cut some of the filler that is NOT involved in PLAYING a game (Useless travel zones).

[JeedaiFiresaber]

These.

 

Can you believe that there's actually people arguing in favor of pointless inconvenience, and using "immersion" as justification?

 

If there was some point to the waiting, I certainly wouldn't be complaining. But immersion for immersion's sake? Even hardcore RP'ers would tell you that it's a waste. Immersion is like "The Game", it only works when you don't notice it. The moment you recognize it, you lose it. Kind of like how you sometimes wake up the moment you realize you're dreaming.

 

Saying that the pointlessness of the ship->airlock->station->planet fiasco helps with immersion is disingenuous. You know it's stupid and pointless. There's no reason to defend it, and you look foolish doing so.

 

awww, i just lost the game.

 

 

on that note, tho fully agree. the spaceports are really dull and lame. like, i was SUPER disappointed to find the Tatooine spaceport....was the Taris spaceport...

 

I mean there's just too many load screens in between. the ship taking off when i board is a problem too.

 

EDIT Just wanted to add, I think the spaceports should exist, as they have reasons for some quests etc. but THIS is where the vendors on some worlds should be. This should be a hub of activity. It shouldn't be a super long area i can't use my speeder in 'just because'. and i should seamlessly walk into my ship's hangar (phased like story quests of course). Worst example of this is Coruscant. that spaceport is ridiculous.

Edited January 12, 2012 by JeedaiFiresaber

[LizardSF]

Teleport to Ironforge? I musty have missed it :-)

a)Go to Ironforge.

b)Queue for DF.

c)Teleport to dungeon.

d)Complete dungeon.

e)Teleport back to Ironforge and sell your greens.

f)Goto b.

 

This is how most people play WoW now once they can queue at all. Pretty much all overland content is abandoned.

I agree 100% on the seamless world and I would also vote against any overuse of teleports. But that would apply to massive, wide open, three dimensional worlds that "must be travelled" (and I add , "explored"). Unfortunately SWTOR does not have such worlds. SWTOR has "follow the paths" worlds (the word "world" used loosely here).

 

Have you been on any world but the starting ones?

 

I spent over an hour JUST mapping the Dune Sea on Tattooine. Not doing quests, not following markers, just zooming on my speeder, dodging Republic guards, and trying to fill in the map. And that's a SUBZONE on the world, not the world itself. And I didn't thoroughly explore it... didn't go in all the buildings, didn't peer in all the caves, just tried to cover the map and poked around in a few buildings that looked particularly interesting.

 

And you know what? There's still some stuff at the bottom I haven't mapped.

 

I did find a Jawa lore item, though. And the world boss wandering around. And some things I think were Republic quest zones, but filled with green Imperials to me.

 

And have you noticed that if you wander off the quest paths and just shoot crap, you will discover things called "area quests". No one sends you there, but you go there, and a quest opens up because you triggered it by exploring. How much stuff have you found -- either cool landmarks, or active game objects like lore items, quest trigger items, security chests, etc -- by wandering around and looking, not by being led by the nose by a quest or an online guide? If you say "None", this pretty much proves you never TRIED, or never left the starting worlds. If you say "Lots"... then you know your statement is false. The worlds aren't linear and there's plenty to explore.

 

I've found a lot of people never TRY walking anywhere but where the quest givers tell them, and then whine they CAN'T go anywhere else... because no one told them they could.

 

Of course the starting worlds are pretty linear, because they're for new players to learn the ropes, and they're small because if you're going to go from Level 1 to Level 10 in an hour, how much world do you NEED? It's wasted design space. If you're coming from a WoW background, the starting worlds are the equivalent of half a typical WoW starting zone, the place where you do quests before the quest that sends you to the city and teaches you how to use the griffons/bats.