[Petition] Scrap F.Leap reset tweak and give us Force Pull

[Atamasama]

You misunderstood what I Meant.

 

If a mob breaks away from you its more efficient in my eyes to force pull him back and save your aggro skills from unnecessary cool downs. I agree that force leap is the best way to close a gap to begin with but you don't want to be dragging several mobs over to your healer when one of them breaks away especially if you put some effort into your positioning.

 

Hope that cleared up what I imeant?

I've tanked in Rift with a build that included both a charge and a pull and to be honest I never used my pull for that, usually a taunt did the trick just fine. Typically what I preferred my pull for, and what I'd use it for in TOR, is if I have a ranged enemy who won't come near me, I would pull it over so that I could hit it with my AoEs. Especially in our case where our AoE skills are all PBAoE, that is a very valuable tool.

[vealow]

I've tanked in Rift with a build that included both a charge and a pull and to be honest I never used my pull for that, usually a taunt did the trick just fine. Typically what I preferred my pull for, and what I'd use it for in TOR, is if I have a ranged enemy who won't come near me, I would pull it over so that I could hit it with my AoEs. Especially in our case where our AoE skills are all PBAoE, that is a very valuable tool.

 

For TOR we are mainly focusing our aggro skills on the mob boss for the majority of the fight (as I am sure you know) especially at my lv (19) as I lack AOE aggro skills or decent AOE's. I personally feel it would be safer to bring the break away* back to you with force pull and dish out a stun or hard hitting skill to generate some threat then use the aggro skill you would of used to maintain threat on the mob boss. Two birds with one stone and no risky business. But that's just how I play, my team mates always come first

 

*The scenario being that the healer has pulled and you know he/she will not be able to cope with the mob for very long and your DPS is busy with CC and/or burning another mob.

Edited January 13, 2012 by vealow

[CozierZebra]

/signed

 

Force Pull would be much more useful.

[anedorivan]

They really just need to give us force pull and make it share a cooldown with push. This would help in gathering up ranged mobs in pve and help our mobility without giving us too many interrupts. Edited January 13, 2012 by anedorivan

[fortyftbadger]

/sign

 

I agree with pretty much everything people are saying about force pull. I think it would help alot with some of the problems this class is having in PvP and PvE situations. I really hope the devs consider adding this skill.

[timidobserver]

I'd rather F.Leap reset be based off saber throw as well. Using force push to reset leap feels like I'm just giving them free resolve due to travel time of leap and gcd. This is of course assuming resolve works as intended. As for force pull, it's a sound idea that can be used for both pvp and pve situations but this class already suffers from skill bloat.

IMO f.leap reset off of saber throw, allow vigilance specced guardian to leap into cover talented, allow defense to sunder at gcd, I never played focus build so I'm not sure what it needs except maybe make unwavering focus affect stasis as well, and fix the def/shield skill to mitigate against force/tech.

 

Actually, I like this idea better. Let saber throw reset it.

[Pengant]

Im a valor level 56 Guardian tank and have cleared 3/5 Nightmare EV on 16 man.

 

My opinion -

 

It's a pretty bad change. Sure i'll enjoy it being unstoppable in huttball, but I really don't get the idea behind it. Force push is our 'gap creator' if you like, not our 'gap closer'.

 

So for a change based around guardian's being able to close distance more effectively i'm a bit confused as to why that would involve a skill we use to create distance from our opponents.

 

From experience, whenever I get into melee range the last thing i'd want to do straight away is push the enemy away again (9.8 times out of 10). I may wish to push them away later into a fight, to interupt them or lock them down for a kill, but by that time my force leap is ready to use again anyway.

 

The only time i'd ever use force push early into a fight is if someone opens from stealth in melee range, or i find myself focus starved in melee range early in a fight and need to push the enemy away to force leap them. But of course my force leap is off cooldown anyway.

 

 

 

What i'd like to see implemented -

 

I really like the sound of sabre throw resetting Force leap. It makes much more sense to me. Sabre throw is just an opener for me at the moment to build focus - i do however use it when someone kites me, generally speaking when i am unable to get into melee range and have no other abilities that i can use, with force leap also on cooldown. So it seems quite a logical change. Give the reset to force leap on a skill we actually use when we are being kited and struggling to close distance, not a skill we use to achieve distance from our opponenets.

 

Also wtb force pull.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Pengant

[Helig]

I'd love to see the Defense tree reworked. Half of the tree is dedicated to overcoming the gimped Focus generation of Soresu. All key tank talents are located in the first three tiers. The rest is just utility. Those Focus efficiency talents need to be rolled into fewer points. Blade Barrier should scale properly.

 

Personally, I want to see Hilt Strike as a baseline Guardian skill. Guardian Slash should be moved to Tier 5, while Tier 7 Defense should be either a 10-meter cone-action Force Pull (Scattered ranged packs=TEH HAET!!11), or a high-aggro, fairly spammable multi-target lightsaber throw attack.

 

Also, something to think about - since we have terrible DPS output as tanks and most of it is melee, I think we either deserve a skill that grants temporary resistance\immunity to knockbacks\snares or Unremitting should be more, much more accessible.

 

 

And yes, I fully agree. Saber throw resetting Leap C\D would make much more sense.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Helig

[CapuchinSeven]

Bleh no, pulls are cheap on any class at any time. An utter cheap frustration for the player being pulled whatever class is doing it.

[Highfives]

Bleh no, pulls are cheap on any class at any time. An utter cheap frustration for the player being pulled whatever class is doing it.

 

...and this matters why? skills which pull and knockback are already in game if you think they are cheap then don't use them and be a hindrance to your team.

 

Besides your point is invalid you can achieve the same thing with push by being on the opposite side but somehow you aren't complaining that is cheap.

[TheMove]

I sign saying F leap reset is pointless and stupid.

[Azylium]

The thing I just don't get, is why it was fine to let the Vanguards (lol) have both Storm and that chain pull ability, and remove pull from Guardians... Looking at it logically, there is no way it would be stronger to have a pull on a Guardian than a Vanguard. Vanguards can do damage even before they storm or pull, Guardians can saber throw...

 

The point is, how is Bioware thinking when they said: Oooh, having both gap closer and a pull is OP! We're going to let the RANGED tank keep both though. In fact, let's make all other tanks have both, just to provoke Guardian tanks!

[Highfives]

Not really, leaping to a group of enemies does the job a lot better than pulling them one at a time to you...

 

In terms of keeping aggro on you yes it would unless you have challenging call available. The problem here is not F.Leaps usefulness it's why we would need a reset for it to close distance when often it is readily available and in order to close the distance in the suggested Bioware reset we have to be close to something to push.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Highfives

[DivisionBell]

As a Guardian (tank) I have to agree will OP. This seems like an odd change for a short cd ability! I like the combination for force push, saber throw, then leap but, force push it the ability with the longer cd. (i.e the one you are waiting around for) As others have said...using push to refresh leap seems pointless.

 

Force pull would be much more use when tanking ranged mobs.

Edited January 13, 2012 by DivisionBell

[Highfives]

Im a valor level 56 Guardian tank and have cleared 3/5 Nightmare EV on 16 man.

 

My opinion -

 

It's a pretty bad change. Sure i'll enjoy it being unstoppable in huttball, but I really don't get the idea behind it. Force push is our 'gap creator' if you like, not our 'gap closer'.

 

So for a change based around guardian's being able to close distance more effectively i'm a bit confused as to why that would involve a skill we use to create distance from our opponents.

 

From experience, whenever I get into melee range the last thing i'd want to do straight away is push the enemy away again (9.8 times out of 10). I may wish to push them away later into a fight, to interupt them or lock them down for a kill, but by that time my force leap is ready to use again anyway.

 

The only time i'd ever use force push early into a fight is if someone opens from stealth in melee range, or i find myself focus starved in melee range early in a fight and need to push the enemy away to force leap them. But of course my force leap is off cooldown anyway.

 

 

 

What i'd like to see implemented -

 

I really like the sound of sabre throw resetting Force leap. It makes much more sense to me. Sabre throw is just an opener for me at the moment to build focus - i do however use it when someone kites me, generally speaking when i am unable to get into melee range and have no other abilities that i can use, with force leap also on cooldown. So it seems quite a logical change. Give the reset to force leap on a skill we actually use when we are being kited and struggling to close distance, not a skill we use to achieve distance from our opponenets.

 

Also wtb force pull.

 

lol so you want saber throw reset and force pull?

 

I agree saber throw would make more sense for the reset but I don't think it would be as useful as people think.

 

If saber throw had an added effect I would want it to be a ranged slow. I don't see why we need skills to reset force leap anyway using force leap when necessary comes down to good skill management.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Highfives

[Pwentt]

They really just need to give us force pull and make it share a cooldown with push. This would help in gathering up ranged mobs in pve and help our mobility without giving us too many interrupts.

 

Agreed with this.

 

The whole reason I want to use force leap to begin with is as a gap closer to get something into melee range. Why do I want to push something out of melee range in order to jump to something else? It doesn't make any sense.

 

Either let saber throw reset the cooldown on force leap or give us force pull and like the person in my quote says just make it share a cooldown with force push.

[TsarNikolai]

/Signed.

 

Honestly whoever thought of this FPush resetting FLeap needs to be Fired. Now.

 

Or forced to level a Defense Specced Guardian, so they ACTUALLY HAVE AN IDEA OF HOW THIS CLASS PLAYS!!!

[Imacomputa]

/signed

 

Either Force Pull, or reset leap's CD on saber throw. Maybe even an AOE pull like in Aion? That would be awesome for tanks.

[Finngarad]

Hi all,

 

I don't have a guardian character but I think that the Sorceror or Maurader characters in Warhammer online had a a similar ability that pulled a character towards them. In a PvP enviroment this is a lethal ability that drags the character towards a crowd of enemys that would stun you and then chop you into diced liver. I always found it a frustrating tactic to counter and I don't think they ever did in Warhammer online. It really gives the users an ability to just travel in packs and cherry pick there targets pulling them in to lethal combat range, not good for healers or ranged damage dealers. But like some other poster wrote earlier the Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior should just both have a force pull and push.

[Sabredance]

I never had a mobility issue.

 

Force Push resets Force Leap?

 

Dunno why they made this the #1 tweak.

 

Gives me the feeling they have no clue about the class performance.

 

I´d rather seen some Vigilance love.

 

Damage fine? Pah.

 

With Force Sweep bombing yeah.

But i rolled Guardian to be a Melee DPS not an AoE Force Sweep Bomber.

 

I know you PvE folks want pull.

 

I keep my Push.

 

For now i reroll Sentinel.

[ffuller]

saber throw reseting the cooldown of force leap would be 100x better

[Highfives]

Hi all,

 

I don't have a guardian character but I think that the Sorceror or Maurader characters in Warhammer online had a a similar ability that pulled a character towards them. In a PvP enviroment this is a lethal ability that drags the character towards a crowd of enemys that would stun you and then chop you into diced liver. I always found it a frustrating tactic to counter and I don't think they ever did in Warhammer online. It really gives the users an ability to just travel in packs and cherry pick there targets pulling them in to lethal combat range, not good for healers or ranged damage dealers. But like some other poster wrote earlier the Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior should just both have a force pull and push.

 

There are already pull abilities in the game and stunlock death is in the game already too. If the player is close enough to get pulled they are either being randomly ganked or they are charging in without thought.

 

If you see the Republic and Empire on Ilum they will bait each other but people know when they are within that kind of range.

[Roadwarrrior]

Suppose they could give us Force Pull instead of Force Push, but make the interrupt that we have, Disruption/(Jedi Guardian Version), send them back 10m that way we could still jump to them.

[Pokupo]

I would love on my Jugger the ability to have reflective damage when I am Parrying or Blocking.

 

You see Jedi all the time in the movies, and in Clone Wars deflecting Blaster bolts back at Clones and Droids, why not do it in game?

 

And it can even help us with Threat, heck we block blaster bolts so many times it prevents us from doing any of our other moves we may as well get some benefit out of it.

 

And yes I would love to be able to force pull on my Jugger.

[Iridor]

Signed. Also, this

 

Personally for me, it would be much logical if sabre throw would reset force leap as its the usual combo. Pushing someone (wasting push) only to be able to leap, seems like odd choice to me.

 

makes way more sense than Force Push resetting Leap cd.