Bioware, you're making it more and more difficult for me to defend you

[McTurbo]

I'm a fan of Star Wars, SWTOR, and Bioware. But man is Bioware making it difficult for me to defend them. Some of their decisions are mind-bogglingly (is that even a word?) bad. Anybody who has even played one MMO in depth could tell you the following:

 

1) You just have to have searchable forums and individual server forums. No exceptions.

2) You just have to have more UI customization. No exceptions.

3) You just have to have more graphics options than low and medium. No exceptions.

4) You just have to have a basic combat log. No exceptions.

5) You just have to have a working auction house. No exceptions.

6) You just have to have plans to encourage/maintain faction population balance. No exceptions. (I realize this one is very difficult to achieve, but I have to admit it looks like Bioware didn't even try on this one).

7) Guild bank. No exceptions.

 

This is a brief list for now, so feel free to add to it. I think most of us can accept some bugs, lightish raid content, and even non-working Ilum in the short term, but some of the basic short-comings are indefensible....even for a fanboi. You see, the haters are going to hate no matter what you do, but to lose the self-professed fanbois as well?

 

That community update on the graphics issues from Stephen Reid was just.....wow. That is all I will say about that one. Wow.

 

It's difficult to comprehend how drastically corners were cut for the biggest budget MMO of all time. Stunning. Bioware needs to go big or go hom here. It's time for someone at Bioware to walk the community through these issues point by point, complete with future plans to address them and rough timelines.

 

Edit: Adding items to the list as they are mentioned below.

 

no they do not have to remake world of warcraft reguardless of how much you want this game to be like it. im quite sure we will see enhancements to most of those options if you give it time until then enjoy what we have and watch the game grow.

[Drallbait]

You have to ship a product for it to make money. No exceptions!

[ManuNegra]

Your reply is full of hyperbole. You think the things I listed are asking too much? So much so that one would require a trip to the future complete with hindsight to recognize them? Odd. Another example, where in my post did I say I wanted "foolproof" plans to maintain balance? I simply want a basic plan of action for what has occurred...nothing more, nothing less. I don't buy the argument that somehow a big-budget development company holds no responsibility for developing a two faction game that has a fighting chance to attract players to both factions.

 

Eh, I was mostly just having fun with the fact that your repetition of "no exceptions" is full of hyperbole, and that many of the things on your list have been absent from the launch of many successful MMO's.

 

And as for population imbalance, most ppl are going to choose their faction based on RP/story/aesthetic inclinations, since the levelling portion of any MMO is pretty much universally one of the components in an MMO that ppl spend the least time with. Once you're 50 you're 50, differences in the amount of time/experience levelling are negligible once you're past them. One need only look at how pathetic the Horde's questing progression was in vanilla WoW compared to the alliance's, and how little of an impact that had on population numbers. As far as I can remember, that game faced such uncontrollable population discrepancies for over a year that all the devs could do was make a cross server bg system and an honor system that made world pvp irrelevant (so you're not getting steamrolled by massive raids of the opposite faction). This game has cross faction bgs, and world pvp is almost exclusively relegated to 1 zone, so I'd say they got about as close to hitting that mark as they could with their LAUNCH, all things considered.

[Rayaleith]

Firstly, compared to what? What other games are you basing this off of?

 

If you did play all these other MMO's, then you would know that EVERY game has players complaining about the "lack of communication"....which in many cases means "I didn't hear what I wanted."

 

And you are ignoring twitter, facebook, ect.

 

Secondly, again this goes to the firstly. Compared to what? What other game company has the communication you require? Give examples. I'm not being snarky man. I honestly want to know.

 

I played many other MMO's, and Bioware seems to be about par if not better in the communication department then most. I'm honestly curious what game company has better.

 

I will say this tho, Bioware uses "social media" a bit too much for their communications.

 

Really now. We are in a forum of a specific game and most of your posts are about other games. What is wrong with you? Well.. we know what it is but get over it please.

[SliggXx]

/agree with OP.

 

Btw, anyone that isn't in support the addition of a combat log is someone that I would like to fistfight IRL.

[ManuNegra]

If only there weren't laws protecting copyrighted material, other game designers could just steal WoW's engine and slap a skin on it for whatever franchise they want their MMO to represent. That's essentially what the demand seems to be in the MMO market that blizz created, anyway. For those of us who have actually played other MMO's from their own launches...I think you tend to see a LOT less complaining.

[Rayaleith]

OP... you really, really need to relax.

 

Seriously, are you sitting down at the game and grinding your teeth at how these features don't exist? Are they that important to you? If so, why?

 

Guild banks would be nice. They're coming.

 

More graphics options would be nice. That may change. I can understand why they play it safe® and limit the choices here -- folks who cannot run Ultra, but think they can, would set Ultra and then would see terrible FPS. They'd flood the forums even more violently than they are now.

 

Searchable forums... that's a serious issue for you, really? Wow. I wish I had your life, where the biggest hang-up you're encountering is that you cannot search these fine forums here.

 

etc, etc.

 

TL;DR -- the guy who said "OP, go out and get drunk, it sounds like you need it" summed it up best. You really, really need to chill.

 

You are from US, right?

[Astron_]

You should take a look at this updated post and see that they are actually lying to us:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=164481

[Skoobie]

Really now. We are in a forum of a specific game and most of your posts are about other games. What is wrong with you? Well.. we know what it is but get over it please.

 

Excuse me?

 

There's no search feature, so please prove that "most of my posts are about other games".

 

You know, you could actually comment on the post you quoted, instead of attacking me.

 

And you could also keep reading the thread.

 

So tell me, what is wrong with me for disagreeing with the OP and asking for example of the claims made?

[Rayaleith]

No. I mean last week, when Bioware had the search feature enabled here for a short time, that's what happened.

 

The Op is saying "no exceptions".

 

I'm saying, breaking the forums is definitely an exception.

 

And this explains a lot? All forums with much more traffic have search.

[DarthSublimitas]

I'm a fan of Star Wars, SWTOR, and Bioware. But man is Bioware making it difficult for me to defend them. Some of their decisions are mind-bogglingly (is that even a word?) bad. Anybody who has even played one MMO in depth could tell you the following:

 

1) You just have to have searchable forums and individual server forums. No exceptions.

2) You just have to have more UI customization. No exceptions.

3) You just have to have more graphics options than low and medium. No exceptions.

4) You just have to have a basic combat log. No exceptions.

5) You just have to have a working auction house. No exceptions.

6) You just have to have plans to encourage/maintain faction population balance. No exceptions. (I realize this one is very difficult to achieve, but I have to admit it looks like Bioware didn't even try on this one).

7) Guild bank. No exceptions.

 

This is a brief list for now, so feel free to add to it. I think most of us can accept some bugs, lightish raid content, and even non-working Ilum in the short term, but some of the basic short-comings are indefensible....even for a fanboi. You see, the haters are going to hate no matter what you do, but to lose the self-professed fanbois as well?

 

That community update on the graphics issues from Stephen Reid was just.....wow. That is all I will say about that one. Wow.

 

It's difficult to comprehend how drastically corners were cut for the biggest budget MMO of all time. Stunning. Bioware needs to go big or go hom here. It's time for someone at Bioware to walk the community through these issues point by point, complete with future plans to address them and rough timelines.

 

Edit: Adding items to the list as they are mentioned below.

 

I agree but especially with #2. PLEASE make the fonts LARGER

 

 

for the life of me, it's so hard to see the fonts and when I want to preview the customizations, I can't modify the window to make it larger. Sorry but I don't plaster my face up against my computer monitor lmao.

[vaike]

If only there weren't laws protecting copyrighted material, other game designers could just steal WoW's engine and slap a skin on it for whatever franchise they want their MMO to represent. That's essentially what the demand seems to be in the MMO market that blizz created, anyway. For those of us who have actually played other MMO's from their own launches...I think you tend to see a LOT less complaining.

 

Actually no, swtor can have its own 'soul', but things like not having a combat log are just flat out stupid. Adding one isn't 'copying wow', pretty much EVERY MMO out there has some way to get a record of what happens to you. Its a standard feature, its quite useful, and its pathetic that Bioware didn't include it.

 

Face it, they released without a number of easy to implement, standard bits of functionality, and they deserve to be called out on it.

[Skoobie]

And this explains a lot? All forums with much more traffic have search.

 

So what?

 

What part of "I would like a search feature too" do you not understand?

 

What part of right now, the search feature is giving the forums problems and will be back once they work it out do you not understand?

 

You say all my posts are about other games, yet all you can talk about is other forums.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Skoobie

[Rayvonuk]

I'm a fan of Star Wars, SWTOR, and Bioware. But man is Bioware making it difficult for me to defend them. Some of their decisions are mind-bogglingly (is that even a word?) bad. Anybody who has even played one MMO in depth could tell you the following:

 

1) You just have to have searchable forums and individual server forums. No exceptions.

2) You just have to have more UI customization. No exceptions.

3) You just have to have more graphics options than low and medium. No exceptions.

4) You just have to have a basic combat log. No exceptions.

5) You just have to have a working auction house. No exceptions.

6) You just have to have plans to encourage/maintain faction population balance. No exceptions. (I realize this one is very difficult to achieve, but I have to admit it looks like Bioware didn't even try on this one).

7) Guild bank. No exceptions.

 

This is a brief list for now, so feel free to add to it. I think most of us can accept some bugs, lightish raid content, and even non-working Ilum in the short term, but some of the basic short-comings are indefensible....even for a fanboi. You see, the haters are going to hate no matter what you do, but to lose the self-professed fanbois as well?

 

That community update on the graphics issues from Stephen Reid was just.....wow. That is all I will say about that one. Wow.

 

It's difficult to comprehend how drastically corners were cut for the biggest budget MMO of all time. Stunning. Bioware needs to go big or go hom here. It's time for someone at Bioware to walk the community through these issues point by point, complete with future plans to address them and rough timelines.

 

Edit: Adding items to the list as they are mentioned below.

 

I read this as

 

You just have to make this game more like wow.

[Rayaleith]

So what?

 

What part of "I would like a search feature too" do you not understand?

 

What part of right now, the search feature is giving the forums problems and will be back once they work it out do you not understand?

 

I prefer not to have forums at all for really long and then come up with a solution. The reason I am quoting you is that you find it ... normal. The same to other problems. You find all these omissions normal.

[Rayaleith]

I read this as

 

You just have to make this game more like wow.

 

You say that like it is a bad thing... If they want to survive more than a few months, well... some things that might resemble wow must be done... It is not bad to copy successful recipes.

[Qoojo]

First off, you shouldn't feel the need to defend them. It is what it is. Second, to fix item #6 on your list, I recommend that BW makes the OP play where BW decides it's best, then he can get his wish that they are doing more for balance.

[Skoobie]

I prefer not to have forums at all for really long and then come up with a solution. The reason I am quoting you is that you find it ... normal. The same to other problems. You find all these omissions normal.

 

Yes, because I've been around other games at launch.

 

I also understand that fixing things involved with a game can take time.

 

And I'm sure Bioware is working on these things, as indicated last week when they actually enabled search for testing.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Skoobie

[DarthGrimmlokk]

5. I can use the Auction house just fine. It is not the easiest interface but I have had no problems buying and selling items.

 

 

Does it work? yes...is it even remotely user friendly...heck no! The GTN needs some major love and attention.

[SnoggyMack]

1) Searchable, yes. In this day and age that's a glaring oversight.

 

It's not an oversight. It was disabled due to technical issues that they have posted they are still working on fixing.

[Ageizm]

I read this as

 

You just have to make this game more like wow.

 

WINNER!!!

 

This guy gets it!

[DarthGrimmlokk]

I read this as

 

You just have to make this game more like wow.

 

Well, Bioware themselves said they used WoW as the model when making SWTOR. I don't have the exact quote, but I'm sure you can dig it up. If that was what they were aiming for then it stands to reason they should adopt some of the basic functionality that WoW currently has.

[SnoggyMack]

1) Since when are searchable forums such a technological feat?

 

It's not a technological feat. It's a limitation of the forum software they're using running up against the sheer volume of traffic the forum gets.

 

2) UI customization is coming. True, but I would prefer a big budget game released in 2011 to have it at launch. How much actual content development gets pushed back for this?

 

Actual content development is also coming up soon, as per dev posts.

 

4) Combat log "being considered" isn't good enough for me. Sorry. Similarily, I'm "considering" sending you $10,000, so I'm sure the first thing you'll do is go buy $10,000 worth of stuff later today.

 

PM me, I'll be happy to provide a mailing address for the cash. Not good enough because the game doesn't have a combat log? That's entertaining.

 

5) Apparently you and I have a different expectation for an auction house. Sadly, my expectations are pretty low and yet the GTN doesn't deliver. I realize changes are on their list to do, but see number 2.

 

Apparently. I use the AH a lot. It's functional. It needs refinements on its search options. That's it.

 

6) So developers hold zero responsibility for developing a two faction game that has a fighting chance at recruiting players to both factions? Are you new to this?

 

I spent years playing Everquest. There was never a move to do anything about good/evil race population figures. (Google Search Fansy the Famous Bard for more details on that game's PvP environment). Then I played World of Warcraft. That game the horde were far outnumbered in PvP. Didn't matter. Then I played Everquest 2, City of Heroes/Villains, and Star Trek Online. All games with PvP that didn't take responsibility for the choices the players made regarding which faction they chose. No, this is not an issue for anyone but the players to deal with.

 

7) See number 2.

 

So essentially the fact that they're working on these issues is unacceptable?

 

Excellent! Thank you for sharing. Your list still fails.

Edited January 12, 2012 by SnoggyMack

[ManuNegra]

Actually no, swtor can have its own 'soul', but things like not having a combat log are just flat out stupid. Adding one isn't 'copying wow', pretty much EVERY MMO out there has some way to get a record of what happens to you. Its a standard feature, its quite useful, and its pathetic that Bioware didn't include it.

 

Face it, they released without a number of easy to implement, standard bits of functionality, and they deserve to be called out on it.

 

Tbh the only thing I really take exception to about the OP is the level of importance being put on some of these things so early in the game's life. I mean, of course it would be best if all of these things got implemented at some point, and I'll be shocked if they go very long without doing just that, but with not not even a month out the gate? Never ever seen an MMO launch without some mechanical elements that need streamlining.

 

I'll admit the lack of a combat log is the one thing I find to be a head-scratcher, but but since this period of the game's existence is likely to end up being irrelevant in terms of class/ability balance in the long run, I just don't see it as being something they need to do RIGHT NOW. The kind of statistical analysis that combat logs enable just isn't even that useful yet, you just have a vocal minority of prior MMO-players (vast majority WoW-only) who wanna cut to the chase on the min/maxing they've been doing for a while now in whatever other game. My guess is that the numbers of these people are a tiny fraction of the numbers who bought the game and are still levelling.

 

In fact, if this were any other MMO, ALMOST EVERYONE would still be levelling this soon after launch (not even 3 weeks), which would make the combat logs even less important. Unless it really matters to you that you levelled in the most efficient way mechanically possible, in which case I say good for you. I'm sure you can get a badge for that in boyscouts if you're looking for a context in which that would matter.

[Pillzarnubs]

Faction Balance only occurs when the population of a sever can chose which faction they want to be on like they did with SWG. It was a nice balancing act.

 

Bioware should have done this from the start but they followed the silly model of 2 factions war war war. This model is old an outdated we should have 20 factions to pick from. Why can't I just be a mandolarian or why can't I just decide I like being a friend to the Jawa's, or join one of the Hutt's. 2 factions is just a pigionholed design model that tries to force everyone into thier idea of faction war.

 

I play a merc BH and I hate the fact that I have to be an Imperial tool and can't decide what jobs I do and what jobs I don't do. I started working for a Hutt why can't I just stay on his side maybe I liked him.