Sentinel ... Horridly underpowered?

[Faolon]

I agree that the gear dependant statement does imply that we are underpowered.

 

If other classes don't need to relgiously craft/hit the vendors, then doesn't that indicate that we have a deficiency when compared to them?

 

I still don't think that we are horridly underpowered. But it still feels like we are a little underpowered. I think some small buffs could improve the fun factor immensely.

 

(I was in Combat and switched to Watchman and I think it's a better choice, but I don't think it was the second coming of Jedi or anything.)

 

 

 

Being gear dependent does not make one underpowered.

Your power greatly increases with your gear. If you were underpowered, gear would not help you no matter what.

 

If you do not want to worry about your gear, play a different class.

[Zedakah]

I think that the devs idea for this class was to not require to become invi, tank or heal, because the damage would so high that the target would die before you do. The only missing part is that they forget to put damage in our second sword, and now we lack damage.

 

The other classes would required all that (tank, invi, heal), to kite or cc us, because no other class should have such damage as the sentinel. but that's not how the game is now.

 

When some other class see us, they should think: I better not be his target!

Instead of that they think something like: I can kill a single sentinel, because the poor guy can't burst me, heal, and neither can run.

 

All the sentinels that are saying we are not underpowered. Go fight some pvps. You will see LOTS of classes jumping at CLOSE range against you, 1x1!

 

How do you explain that? Besides lack of dps.

 

 

 

Funny you say that, because my main is a gunslinger (pure dps class). My first target ALWAYS is the person with 2 lightsabers, because they drop so fast and can't damage me enough. I feel like a god behind my cover blasting every single opponent at range - tabbing to the next and tearing them down in record time. This is how a pure dps should play. Yes, I am squishy out of cover, but I do have quite a few defensive cooldowns (probably more than a sentinel). However, I can survive much longer in cover without cooldowns, than a sentinel can with cooldowns.

 

My sentinel is 22 and has artifice with all blue modded gear, and Kira in greens still tears through mobs before me. This is not ability delay, this is just bad damage. I've played all other base classes to at least 20, and Sentinel is by far the weakest. It may get better later on, but it is a chore to play. The story is the only thing keeping me playing it.

 

My shadow (level 22 balance spec) kills things much faster and takes much less damage than my sentinel. I go one on one (no companion) on elites with my light-armor shadow (not in tanking form) with no defensive cooldowns and don't even worry about dying. Silver mobs send a shiver down my spine on my Sentinel with a companion.

 

The class is playable, but COMPARED to all other classes, it's a joke. For a pure dps class, it does much less damage than it should and takes more damage than a light armor class.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Zedakah

[DralenBrand]

My sentinel is combat lvl 27. It does nto feel underpowered 1-on-1 in any situation. In PvE, I generally have no issue if I take the weaker mobs out first - traditional tactics in an MMO. The problem I have is in PvP mostly - due to kiting ranged opponents. I am too squishy, and wiith incoming slow spells, I simply cannot get close enough to let my AMPLE damage take opponents down.

 

 

Combat is a great spec against bosses, imho, in PvE. I find they are dead fast, but I do have to regularly employ tactics. Essentially, a sentinel is either better in PvE than other classes because you played it right (correct gear, tactics, etc.) or absolutely the worst. Nothing I do, however, can fix the PvP issues. The PvP disadvantages are beyond more ability to control or mitigae. I sincerely hoppe the devs will consider how squishy we are - far too squishy to not have an effective anti-kiting ability (or better yet, abilities). Stun doesn't really work for this either, especially iun huttball.

 

Now, in non-Huttball PvP, when I am not ganked, and when facing melee opponents, my combat sentinel seems to have a huge advantage, though the number of factors that must come together to have that advantage are so numerous as to be impractical. Also, I use a combination of typing and clicking. Typing is for predictably available instants, while clicking is for abilities that come available unpredictably or based upon certain factors that don't seem to have a rhythm. It works really well.

 

My conclusion is that sentinels suffer from 2 problems: (1) they are far to squishy for group battles where they get stunned or slowed and their dmg output cannot overcome squishiness; and (2) they have a lack of anti-kiting ability that really doesn't negatively impact PvE and is most obvious in huttball.

 

Just my two sents (see what I did there?), but I think it just isn't the class for everyone, but it isn't nearly as bad as some make it out to be. There are some disadvantages that need correcting, yes, but the class is not unplayable as is. Fix the 2 issues above with some tweaks, and the sentinel is fine.

 

Edited January 12, 2012 by DralenBrand

[Psychitude]

My take on the sentinel used to be that it was underpowered as well. Then I decided to invest in new gear as often as possible and I respec'd to Watchmen for leveling (I was Combat up to 27). When I respec'd and started acquiring updated armor, it became extremely easy. I also should add that I began to invest money in my healing companion. If you keep your healing companion updated and your own armor updated, things should go much smoother. I went from 27-36 without any problem and have yet to hit any holdups. (Even took down a champion a couple times the other day [with the help of the healer it was super easy]) Also remember your cancel spells on Elites and Strong targets. The only difficulty I have right now is in mobs of 4-5 when my healer decides to take on his own targets and I can't keep aggro and he heals himself, other than that it's a very good class when used correctly.

[Staavis_SC]

I'm going to support the OP here, to a certain degree.

 

I'd been having a hard time choosing what character would be my main, so I have leveled the following from 1-18(ish) to determine what I liked the best:

 

1. Smuggler, Gunslinger

2. Trooper, Commando

3. J Knight, Guardian

4. J Knight, Sentinel

5. J Consular, Shadow

 

I have a Sage as well, down at Level 10, and a Vanguard Trooper at 13.

 

Now, that being said...

 

When I'm on my Smuggler, everything feels very fast paced. Everything dies quickly, and 9 times out of 10, if they are running for me to close the gap, they'll face plant before they get to me.

 

I can take on large mobs, blow them away, and walk away with minimal damage. Frankly, I can't remember the last time I had to stand and flip a coin. (Rejuvenate)

 

When I'm on my Trooper, things die quickly as well. I do take a bit more damage than I do on my Smuggler, but I can keep a fairly constant pace of killing and moving on.

 

These two were by far the easiest I have leveled thus far.

 

My Jedi Consular Shadow, I rank as the 3rd easiest. While I take a fair bit of damage, I seem to kill quickly, and having stealth certainly allows me to get a jump on my prey. Additionally, Qyzen Fess is a decent tank and does decent damage.

 

No we get to my Jedi Knights...

 

One word describes the leveling with Jedi Knights, regardless if they are Sentinel or Guardian:

 

PAINFUL

 

I can deal with a slower leveling pace with a Guardian, because they are a tank. I got used to slow leveling as a tank warrior in Vanilla WoW.

 

But there is a huge problem when not only the pace of the Leveling is slow, but then, it's compounded by the fact I'm down at 1/2 helath after each fight. So, not only do I kill slowly, but I'm healing up ALL THE TIME after each and every fight.

 

T-7 is a good tank, in terms of aggro, but he dies off about as quickly as I do. Now, I know what you will say..."Have you upgraded his gear?" Yes, I have. Both my T-7 and I are sitting in gear that is within 1-2 levels of my current level, mostly blues. Gear is not the issue here.

 

Frankly, Jedi Knights (Guardians at the very least) are NOT fun. You spend a ton of time starring at action bars waiting for things like Riposte to pop, or making sure you have enough Focus to hit your bigger attacks. These are not issues with Troopers and Guardians, because the energy mechanics are reversed, and their attacks are direct mechanics, rather than a series of "do X, wait for Y, hope for Z, then solve for the square root of PI."

 

Now with Sentinels, it doesn't feel quite as bad. At the very least, if you get on a roll with a Sentinel, you can kill pretty quickly, so the leveling isn't quite as slow. You still have to heal up as much as you do on a Guardian, but at least you are killing quickly.

 

 

I really wanted to enjoy Jedi Knights. They are the class I wanted to play the most. But in their current condition, it's just not very fun to play them unless you are taking on baddies 3-4 levels below you. Currently, I use my Jedi Knights only for farming credits and gathering crafting mats out in the early areas of Courscant, because I'm not looking forward to Taris and the utter dismantling I will recieve when fighting there.

 

I know alot of people really enjoy the super mechanical, intricate gameplay of the Knight, and can use them well. To them, I say "More power to ya". For now, even though I really wanted to play a Jedi Knight, I have resigned myself to playing a Smuggler as my main. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy it, and it's fun.

 

But it just doesn't feel "Star Wars" enough for me.

[Lyrnef]

I have a Sent in combat lvl 43, I enjoy the class, love the story , that stop there...

 

in pvp, it another "story"...

 

when you fight and cant even harass ppl, that angry me.. one time I attack a BH healer... he was laughing at me.. stand there, healing hes friend, a knock back on me small heal to himself...was IGNORING ME. until someone come helping...

 

yes I interrupt some skill with the kick.. oh yeah, it does no damage....AND cost force, just to interrupt.

 

The class I HATE personally is the OPS, it their drop down (sorry don't know that skill name ) anyway I drop to the floor , then he go in my back then back stab nonstop for about 1.2k damage each time, so by the time I am up again ... oh half dead...

 

WE miss a one big attack like all other class... all class have at least 1 big attack. don't say yeah you have. master strike , my answer ( you are making a joke right ?) a skill that need to be channel 3 sec, IF the target not moving nor interrupt us. and a 30 sec cooldown. When u receive always get damage by other class ( 2k easily, 3.5-3k by sniper) AND their skill spammable.. WTH. make master strike a instant, but still have the damned cooldown... it all we get, cooldown, anyway.... BTW the only chance I have to do a master strike is to be spec in combat with debilitation with make the opponent immobilize for the duration.

 

I can see the class more like a support one not a dps one. if ppl don't attack you , you can help a bit, pop some group support, harass a bit, and healing a bit if your watchmen spec.

 

 

little thing, I see many ppl saying they cant do their pommel strike. do AWE, then you can do it, if they don't resolve...

 

we don't need much, I don't ask much, just a little boost, I don't wanna to be OP, but just enough that ppl can get scared... now, we are training bag for ppl

 

right now spec in combat, with need do do 5 skills to do something

 

force leap

precision strike

zealot strike

blade rush

blade storm ( all that to make that skill 100% armor penetrating and crit) for about 2k damage ... no comment

 

if it was me I would redone the class completely...

 

if it stay like that. I don't know, make the global cooldown a bit lower so we could do more attacks so will in the end do a bit more damage.

 

but I still think that JK and SW need a bigger big skill , master don't do the job like other class, specialy the BH with dead from above, That I think it a bit op. but that is speculation (because I only play the Sentinel and Sage)

 

I wont stop playing my sent because I still like it even if maybe we are a bit behind others.

[Psychitude]

I have a Sent in combat lvl 43, I enjoy the class, love the story , that stop there...

 

in pvp, it another "story"...

 

when you fight and cant even harass ppl, that angry me.. one time I attack a BH healer... he was laughing at me.. stand there, healing hes friend, a knock back on me small heal to himself...was IGNORING ME. until someone come helping...

 

yes I interrupt some skill with the kick.. oh yeah, it does no damage....AND cost force, just to interrupt.

 

The class I HATE personally is the OPS, it their drop down (sorry don't know that skill name ) anyway I drop to the floor , then he go in my back then back stab nonstop for about 1.2k damage each time, so by the time I am up again ... oh half dead...

 

WE miss a one big attack like all other class... all class have at least 1 big attack. don't say yeah you have. master strike , my answer ( you are making a joke right ?) a skill that need to be channel 3 sec, IF the target not moving nor interrupt us. and a 30 sec cooldown. When u receive always get damage by other class ( 2k easily, 3.5-3k by sniper) AND their skill spammable.. WTH. make master strike a instant, but still have the damned cooldown... it all we get, cooldown, anyway.... BTW the only chance I have to do a master strike is to be spec in combat with debilitation with make the opponent immobilize for the duration.

 

I can see the class more like a support one not a dps one. if ppl don't attack you , you can help a bit, pop some group support, harass a bit, and healing a bit if your watchmen spec.

 

 

little thing, I see many ppl saying they cant do their pommel strike. do AWE, then you can do it, if they don't resolve...

 

we don't need much, I don't ask much, just a little boost, I don't wanna to be OP, but just enough that ppl can get scared... now, we are training bag for ppl

 

right now spec in combat, with need do do 5 skills to do something

 

force leap

precision strike

zealot strike

blade rush

blade storm ( all that to make that skill 100% armor penetrating and crit) for about 2k damage ... no comment

 

if it was me I would redone the class completely...

 

if it stay like that. I don't know, make the global cooldown a bit lower so we could do more attacks so will in the end do a bit more damage.

 

but I still think that JK and SW need a bigger big skill , master don't do the job like other class, specialy the BH with dead from above, That I think it a bit op. but that is speculation (because I only play the Sentinel and Sage)

 

I wont stop playing my sent because I still like it even if maybe we are a bit behind others.

 

Have you tried checking online for a good PvP skill tree build? This place- http://www.squidoo.com/jedi-knight-build#module156136749 is where I got mine and it works great so far.

[Moldrany]

Have you tried checking online for a good PvP skill tree build? This place- http://www.squidoo.com/jedi-knight-build#module156136749 is where I got mine and it works great so far.

 

Sorry, but this is a terrible build. You are missing one core talent of combat, which is 'Focused Slash' in the watchman tree (tier 1 talent).

 

Additionally, the -30 % AoE damage is pretty much must have for a PvP oriented combat spec.

[Psychitude]

Sorry, but this is a terrible build. You are missing one core talent of combat, which is 'Focused Slash' in the watchman tree (tier 1 talent).

 

Additionally, the -30 % AoE damage is pretty much must have for a PvP oriented combat spec.

 

Hmm alright. Good to know. Then I really don't know where you're coming from. I have heard of some great Sentinel PvPers. Maybe I have yet to experience the same problems.

[All_Under_Heaven]

10/10 "zomg sents are unplayable" made the mistake of leveling combat.

 

It is provably weaker then the other two specs.

 

This is unfortunely true. I leveled 10-24 Combat, and felt underpowered, weak, and fragile. I did little damage to even standard mobs, and could only finish Elite-Champion mobs when I crit and proc'd enough. So literally, I just jumped in and hoped that this round would be my lucky one.

 

Then I looked into Watchman/Focus builds, tried Focus, was meh, then specced into Watchman.

 

And now I can carve through flippin' mountains.

[Outlawe]

Whine thread 101, with practically the same subject line as the other 100 whine threads. I hate to be so Internet cliche but L2P. BW, if you dumb down the game for these kids, I will be cancelling my sub.

[Sath_Wishes]

Whine thread 101, with practically the same subject line as the other 100 whine threads. I hate to be so Internet cliche but L2P. BW, if you dumb down the game for these kids, I will be cancelling my sub.

 

Even tho i'am thinking combat seem to underperform in PVE compared to Watchman, i can agree to this. Horridly underpowered ? Nope.

[Nacixems]

I do see us at the bottom. swing for swing, in comp. gear we are at the bottom of the food chain. tested a Knight/Sent/Gunslinger/and a few others. we took the same pack. 1 strong, with 3 normals.

 

1st we are all in purples, no one has any uber battlemaster gear or pvp, its all pve gear with purple mods from dailys. each of us had a ear peice from the dailys and same level of mods. trees where all dps.. sent was watchman. .. gunslinger was sniper and knight went the dps route(i forget that tree atm)

 

test 1. who can finish first. knight > Gun > Sent (way behind) health was about the same when the fight was done.

 

test 2. single strong. same mob. same test. .. same result as test 1.

 

test 3. dueling. just straight up 1 v 1. with the other party not fighting. same result.

 

a noted thing on this was, the ppl watching / timing the fight said the saw the sent , pause alot , looking like they where about to strike, but never did. this is the delay/shutter bug where skills dont fire .. etc. see posts about this.

 

so we are guessing that alot of the sent. underpower is due to the delay/shutter/skill not going off thing.. ?

 

just our .02 worth of an hour trying to see why sents dont apear to dp the dps they should. not sure if you can take anything form this, since we did not or know not how to retreive real numbers, but from this basic test, all fingers point to . sents doing far less damage than any other dps class. far less.

[Dagimpster]

1. stop complaining that something is UP until you maxed it out and played 4 a while to see if it is underpowered.

 

2. while lvl go Watchmen your life will be easier

 

3. keep your gear updated

 

4. keep your comps gear upgraded.

[Dagimpster]

your problem add legsweep for the people kiting you.

[FobManX]

Sentinels are excellent in group play. They do very good sustained DPS on long fights(aka bosses, the only fights that really matter in PVE)and also provide great utility. The only difficult part about PVE is the final class quest which BW has already admitted needs to be retuned as it's virtually impossible to solo.

 

We're a bit squishy yes, in PVP you can't just Leap into a group of 2-3 people. We're very group dependent. In a good group I can wreck havoc, and I'm no PVP expert by any means.

[Psychitude]

I do see us at the bottom. swing for swing, in comp. gear we are at the bottom of the food chain. tested a Knight/Sent/Gunslinger/and a few others. we took the same pack. 1 strong, with 3 normals.

 

1st we are all in purples, no one has any uber battlemaster gear or pvp, its all pve gear with purple mods from dailys. each of us had a ear peice from the dailys and same level of mods. trees where all dps.. sent was watchman. .. gunslinger was sniper and knight went the dps route(i forget that tree atm)

 

test 1. who can finish first. knight > Gun > Sent (way behind) health was about the same when the fight was done.

 

test 2. single strong. same mob. same test. .. same result as test 1.

 

test 3. dueling. just straight up 1 v 1. with the other party not fighting. same result.

 

a noted thing on this was, the ppl watching / timing the fight said the saw the sent , pause alot , looking like they where about to strike, but never did. this is the delay/shutter bug where skills dont fire .. etc. see posts about this.

 

so we are guessing that alot of the sent. underpower is due to the delay/shutter/skill not going off thing.. ?

 

just our .02 worth of an hour trying to see why sents dont apear to dp the dps they should. not sure if you can take anything form this, since we did not or know not how to retreive real numbers, but from this basic test, all fingers point to . sents doing far less damage than any other dps class. far less.

 

Have been having the same problem with abilities not firing and has made a difference in a lot of battles against champions. Other than that it hasn't been a big deal, just an annoyance. Anybody else having problems with this?

[darthtoph]

We're a bit squishy yes, in PVP you can't just Leap into a group of 2-3 people. We're very group dependent. In a good group I can wreck havoc, and I'm no PVP expert by any means.

 

Ok.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuszFOkORVg

 

I recorded that video today morning specifically for all of those who say Sentinels are squishy and useless. I was healed some in the beginning but hey, I didn't ask for it. Was even lagging some due to Fraps, which made abilities not trigging painfully obvious. Anyway, just as the video description says, it was a **** match were I went PuG together with another level 50 and a bunch of level 10-20 lowbies vs. 4x level 50s, a 42 and 3x lowbies. Don't care if we lost, was the first and only Warzone I bothered to record, point was to prove Sentinels are not squishy.

 

Add me to a premade vs premade and it's all the same. Survivability has never been an issue.

 

In fact, I leap into groups of 2-3 opponents all the time. Take the Civil War, if your team is down a turret you can go cap the side turret on your own. 1-2 opponents will be waiting and they better be geared in full PvP gear or you'll destroy them both. Force Camo (as Watchman) and Guarded by the Force alone will grant you 10 seconds of immortality, combine that with crit/heals, medpac, relics, Zen whatever and you will last +30 seconds with ease - you'll either destroy your opponent(s) or worst case scenario, more opponents will inc. Meaning the opposing team is leaving their other turret somewhat wide open for your remaining teammates to cap.

 

If anything, Sentinels have decent survivability.

Edited January 14, 2012 by darthtoph

[TheoNJ]

Ok.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuszFOkORVg

 

I recorded that video today morning specifically for all of those who say Sentinels are squishy and useless. I was healed some in the beginning but hey, I didn't ask for it.

 

If anything, Sentinels have decent survivability.

 

This wants to prove he is not squishy using a video that he is healed during all the fights.

Way to go, pro.

[maxetius]

They are, marauders have the same issue.

 

You will find that using your heal companion and the best, (trade house is your friend) will make leveling much less painful.

[ColdSunHoth]

This is bull. I watched a sith marauder and an agent healer tonight that just teared it up. His name is Xavek and he is on my server. I'm not sure what he's doing, but he has survivability, even when not being healed. I just don't see you guys being that bad. My guardian sucked at low levels, which I'm guessing is the same issue here.

 

EDIT: What I'm saying is he isn't just survivable, he is a freaking monster in PVP.

Edited January 15, 2012 by ColdSunHoth

[Vember]

This class has attracted some terrible players.

[RamzaBehoulve]

This class has attracted some terrible players.

 

Dual Lightsabers effect.

[Toppins]

This class has attracted some terrible players.

 

I think this is the Sentinel's biggest problem, tbh.

 

If you think Sentinels are squishy, you're doing it wrong.

 

If you think Sentinels don't DPS like madmen, you're doing it wrong.

 

If you think Sentinels don't have any group utility, you're.... not that far off base

 

 

The point is, I can survive 1v3 against a group of equally geared opponents for 30+ seconds, which is key in a WZ. I can burst down a healer by myself... that's pretty useful. I can leap to enemies every 12 seconds, debuff healing on my target by 20%, buff my group with crazy speed, go invisible, AND I execute people by throwing my lightsaber at them from 15m away.

 

What's not to like about this class again?

[JamieKirby]

Its widely known that the Jedi Knight class as a whole is underpowered and what from what bioware say, its in the survivability department, the dps is right on the spot, in their opinion, the survivability however is not up to par with the other classes.

 

I however, do believe any player that leveled up solo (as in, never grouping for anything except heroic quests and those elite bonuses quest elites to save time) and never have any issues at all, are not being honest.

 

I admit that i am not the best guardian player in the game, but i started getting issues on Taris, which proved fixable via upgrading my gear, mostly the hilt, so after making sure the hilt and my gear was properly upgraded when needed, i had no problems, until i got to Tatooine.

 

From that point on, fighting a group of normals, felt like i was facing a strong and a strong and 4 normals felt like an elite and an elite was a nightmare and it just felt wrong, i was doing alot of damage to them, which made me think it was a survivability issue and biowares' statement made me feel relieved that they know about it.

 

The damage isn't the issue, its the survivability that is, granted the issues could have been a L2P thing, but the fact that i have to be kitted out in pure epic gear and mods to compete with a trooper in greens and blues, signifies that there is indeed a problem.

 

So, it isn't a damage issue, its a survivability issue, i can take out a group of normals in 5 seconds, which i am sure everyone else can do, but the issue here is that my health would be down to 50% in 3-4 seconds, but as a trooper or smuggler, hardly a dent, so i highly doubt that the other classes are overpowered, it has to be the jedi knight in general that is the issue.

 

At first i thought it was a Jedi Guardian issue, so i was planning on rolling another jedi knight to be a sentinel, but it seems that sentinels have this issue as well, the only time when Jedi guardians and sentinels do not have these issues with survivability is when they are in a group and a group should only be required for heroics, flashpoints and operations.