Jedi Guardian - Vigiliance dps guide.

[Draqsko]

Few things to note:

1) To maximize the damage of Plasma Brand, use on 12 second rotation, the 9 second CD will cause you to miss 25% of the DOT it generates.

 

2) To maximize the damage of Dispatch and Blade Storm, use within 9 seconds of Plasma Brand or Overhead Slash for the 60% crit increase.

 

3) Slash should be used in place of Dispatch when you cannot use Dispatch, you need the CD filler, and they cost the same focus, and Dispatch is only availible at <20% hp (<30% when 1.2 goes live)

 

4) Drop Force Sweep and Cyclone Slash from the priority list, you are DPS, not tank. Focus your attacks on the target the tank is focusing attacks on. DO NOT MAKE THE TANK'S AND HEALER'S JOB HARDER BY THROWING AROUND AOEs.

 

5) Unremitting should be taken. You want to use Saber Throw then Force Leap to open for focus generation, take Unremitting both for PVE and PVP. Since some bosses knockback fairly quickly in a fight, it will let you DPS instead of having to run back to fighting range, plus it'll cut your damage if you pull aggro quickly before the tank can regain it. Unremitting is the best PVP skill perk you have, you have no idea how many times that healer tries to use knockback/stun on you right after force leap. Say hello to wasted CC cooldown.

 

6) Master Strike and Force Statis are focus starved and CD filling skills, they should be low priority given their CD's (30/60 seconds respectively, 27/50 seconds when specced). They are channeled and therefore interrupted easily (1.2 changes this with MS). You really only want to use these to get you to the next Sunder when you don't have focus (equal to or less than 3 focus, with combat focus on CD), if you have the focus to dump, a double slash is preferable if your big skills (plasma brand, overhead slash, blade storm, dispatch) are all on cooldown.

 

7) Drop Gather Strength (it's a horribly designed perk), and Master Focus (3s off a 30s CD, and 10s off a 60s CD is.. worthless, and for two points..). Then think about dropping either Force Effluence or 1 point off Swelling Winds (I'd drop 1 pt in Swelling Winds personally). Now take those 4 points and max Unremitting and Defiance, you WILL thank me when you go into PVP and some PVE instances. Damage reduction plus 4 second CC immunity, plus 4 focus when CC is attempted.. means more DPS 4 U. It's more than worth the trade for a perk that almost never procs (gather strength), miniscule CD reduction (master focus), and giving up 10% damage increase with 1s CD reduction (swelling winds).

 

IMO you should take 3 points out of insight and put them in unremitting and gather strength. You want to pvp and have immunity from interrupts and CC more than your additional Critical strike chance bonus of 6%.

 

I'll take 4 more seconds of hard dps on a target and a big bonus, because if you are not movement impaired stacking in pvp you must be playing some other game.

 

I haven't tested gather strength but if I read it correctly you can get a 50% melee bonus (dmg?) for 10 seconds. I'd think you'd like that more than a potential critical strike.

 

Gather Strength

 

Whenever your movement is impaired, you gain a [5 / 10]% bonus to your next melee ability that costs focus. This effect can stack up to 5 times and lasts 10 seconds.

 

If you are chain CC'd enough to grant 5 stacks, you are CC'd long enough to make this perk absolutely useless since the 10 seconds will tick off or you are dead. Really this perk requires that you have your CC breaker on CD, and a full resolve bar to be used. A 6% crit rate increase is better because even without surge, your crit damage is consistently 50% or higher with surge. 6% increase combined with crit and surge gear (which a guardian DPS should stack) means a much more consistent and higher burst, you'll need it in PVP.

 

To give you an idea of the math, 2 or 3 CC's will fill your resolve bar, throw in a snare, that is 30-40% damage increase on 1 attack. Most of the time, the person snaring or CCing you is not within melee range. So you have exactly 10 seconds to break CC or let it wear off, then close the gap, be facing the target, and execute a MELEE attack. This is horrible perk the way it's designed, if it was useable for ANY attack, it might be worth taking but the way it works now is just horrendous.

[clearsighted]

I'm sorry, but the previous post had one or two good things, but also many gems of horrible advice.

 

You do NOT need Slash on your toolbar. And you should absolutely be using Smash. You won't draw that much aggro, and will in fact, probably prevent more damage by stunning and burning down that trash as fast as possible.

 

Smash is often an essential power to keep new adds off the healer. I would take a hugely jaundiced view to anyone who says to not use it.

 

Sundering Armor should be used every chance you get. You will have no downtime in attacks, and no free focus, to fit Slash in.

 

Don't forget to intercede. It helps as both a heal, aggro dump and improves the tank's damage resistance.

 

Use Master Strike whenever it's off cd, when pve'ing. That will be often enough, since Overhead Slash and Plasma Brand can reset it. Unlike the dude above who says to use it when everything else is on cooldown, you should be using everything else when Master Strike is on cooldown.

 

Gather Strength is a terrific talent, though not all it could be in some hard modes. You will still often end up with a damage-boosted overhead slash or dispatch. 5 stacks almost never happens, but even 1-3 is great.

 

Force Effluence is fantastic and as central to a Vig build as Unremitting.

 

Pro Tip: Gather Strength is not something to think about or plan around. You just fight normally with it on.

Edited April 10, 2012 by clearsighted

[CapuchinSeven]

4) Drop Force Sweep.

 

I don't agree with that.

 

6) Master Strike and Force Statis are focus starved and CD filling skills, they should be low priority.

 

Or that.

 

7) Drop Gather Strength (it's a horribly designed perk).

 

Or this even, PVE maybe where you're less likely to see it but it makes Overhead Strike hit like a train in PVP and you do mention PVP.

 

 

 

Only when we get combat logging will we know for sure and without them it's not easy to prove anything either way but I think we're going to see differences in DPS in those that use Master Strike whenever it's off cooldown (and take Zen Strike to refresh it) and those that use it as low priority, in PVP (the only place we can pull any sort of numbers right now) my DPS went up from around 190k to 300k in Soresu.

 

You're not doing your DPS any favours not using Sweep either, you're not going to be causing aggro issues using it, and Slash is quiet nice when it spam crits 3, 4 times in a row but I don't really think it fits into any Vigilance rotation.

Edited April 10, 2012 by CapuchinSeven

[clearsighted]

 

Only when we get combat logging will we know for sure and without them it's not easy to prove anything either way but I think we're going to see differences in DPS in those that use Master Strike whenever it's off cooldown (and take Zen Strike to refresh it) and those that use it as low priority, in PVP (the only place we can pull any sort of numbers right now) my DPS went up from around 190k to 300k in Soresu.

 

How on earth is averaging 300k damage possible in a 50s warzone, while in Soresu form? You would need to hit smash on a pack of opposing players virtually every 12 seconds, and unload with all 3 tics of master strike every time it is off CD on a light armor sorc, while never dying once, to even get near there. Or preferably, stand in place for ten minutes hitting a light armor with all 5 stacks of armor reduction on him who keeps getting healed.

 

I'm honestly curious how you managed this. It can't have been master strike alone.

 

I'm guessing this is 14/27, at least?

Edited April 10, 2012 by clearsighted

[nanohana]

How on earth is averaging 300k damage possible in a 50s warzone, while in Soresu form? You would need to hit smash on a pack of opposing players virtually every 12 seconds, and unload with all 3 tics of master strike every time it is off CD on a light armor sorc, while never dying once, to even get near there. Or preferably, stand in place for ten minutes hitting a light armor with all 5 stacks of armor reduction on him who keeps getting healed.

 

I'm honestly curious how you managed this. It can't have been master strike alone.

 

I'm guessing this is 14/27, at least?

 

Getting 300k+ damge done as 14/27 in Void Star is hardly a problem, especially when queuing as a premade group including a healer.

 

And using Master Strike on cooldown is one of the dumbest things I've heard for quite some time. Even beats picking Zen Strike pre 1.2. (For PvP that is.)

Edited April 10, 2012 by nanohana

[bamsmacked]

Few things to note:

 

 

3) Slash should be used in place of Dispatch when you cannot use Dispatch, you need the CD filler, and they cost the same focus, and Dispatch is only availible at <20% hp (<30% when 1.2 goes live)

 

Why Slash? And what do you have against Force Sweep? With the proper talents taken Force Sweep does way more damage, is on a 12 second cool down does MORE damage than Slash, is unblockable, is an AoE and generates 1 focus, AND IT'S FREE..

 

4) Drop Force Sweep and Cyclone Slash from the priority list, you are DPS, not tank. Focus your attacks on the target the tank is focusing attacks on. DO NOT MAKE THE TANK'S AND HEALER'S JOB HARDER BY THROWING AROUND AOEs.

 

Hate to say it but if you drop Sweep out of your rotation you lose a lot of DPS. Instead of wasting time Slashing you could easily use Sweep or Master Strike in between Blade Storm, Plasma Brand and Overhead Slash CD's. Vigilance/Vengeance builds fail to achieve maximum DPs because they opt out of using certain abilities like Master Strike and Sweep.

 

 

 

6) Master Strike and Force Statis are focus starved and CD filling skills, they should be low priority given their CD's (30/60 seconds respectively, 27/50 seconds when specced). They are channeled and therefore interrupted easily (1.2 changes this with MS). You really only want to use these to get you to the next Sunder when you don't have focus (equal to or less than 3 focus, with combat focus on CD), if you have the focus to dump, a double slash is preferable if your big skills (plasma brand, overhead slash, blade storm, dispatch) are all on cooldown.

 

Master Strike and Force Stasis should be low priority?????? If you know what your doing, keep your eye on the opponents resolve and pay attention to whether or not they blew their CC breaker Stasis has many uses. Main use is that it makes your enemy paralyzed for the duration of the ability. Secondly it generates 1 focus per tick, each tick has a chance to crit, and finally when used injunction with your other DoTs it's a great damage dealer. And as far as Master Strike... I think your wrong here too. I use Master Strike whenever it's available and as a rotation filler. I also took Zen Strike and I can't even tell you how many times I've literally got 2 Master Strikes off in less then 10 seconds because OS and PB proc it's cool down. The talent does not suck and neither does the ability. It's the consensus here that claim it's true, when it's not. I regularly get 250-300k warzones in PUGs not even focusing entirely on damage because I achieve my maximum potential DPS by not opting out of talents and skills so many see as bad.

 

7) Drop Gather Strength (it's a horribly designed perk), and Master Focus (3s off a 30s CD, and 10s off a 60s CD is.. worthless, and for two points..). Then think about dropping either Force Effluence or 1 point off Swelling Winds (I'd drop 1 pt in Swelling Winds personally). Now take those 4 points and max Unremitting and Defiance, you WILL thank me when you go into PVP and some PVE instances. Damage reduction plus 4 second CC immunity, plus 4 focus when CC is attempted.. means more DPS 4 U. It's more than worth the trade for a perk that almost never procs (gather strength), miniscule CD reduction (master focus), and giving up 10% damage increase with 1s CD reduction (swelling winds).

 

Gather Strength is a bad talent, but dropping Effluence and not maxing out Swelling Winds is just stupid. Swelling Winds increaess the damage of an unblockable AoE talent and Effluence makes it free. We're DPS right? Why the hell would you want to drop THOSE talents for?

 

For anyone interested in a deep Vigilance build this is the one I use. 7/33/0.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500crZIGMRMhddhR.1

 

And just for those wondering why I take Accuracy, and Zen - well this is why. I take Accuracy so none of my attacks miss, if they miss I can't do damage with PB or Overhead Slash or debuff their armor. Secondly you will want to take out all your crap accuracy enhancements and load them with Adept enhancements for lots of power and surge - so this is precisely why Accuracy is important so that you can get better enhancements in your gear without losing a **** ton of accuracy. Having a 100% chance to hit will suffice.

 

I take Zen because it procs a cool down of Master Strike, and with our snare, our immobilizing affect from Leap there is no reason in the world to not have it in your frequent rotation, I get in all 3 hits frequently and the 4meter range is a lot further out than many of you want to admit.

 

I'd rather have Commanding Awe over Protector, 4% damage reduction and reduced CD of Awe is much better than 4% health and having the GLeap affect apply to you once you leap to an ally. Why some might say? Simple. Awe is another ability you will learn to use as an interrupt and CC in bad situations to increase your survivability.

 

With this build you get 1 extra free point to put where ever you want. There is literally nothing else in the Defense or Focus tree that would be of any use to a Vigil Guardian unless you want Stagger or Insight. Personally I'd rather have solidifying force and the resource talents in the Defense Tree.

 

That's just me though. I've been cycling/respecing through builds since pre release and as of right now this is the very best Vigilance build I know of, I put up great numbers in Warzones and 75% of my Warzones are with PUG. I don't need pocket healers or tanks to deal 250-300k damage and get 30-40k in Protection each round by simply knowing which enemies to taunt.

Edited April 10, 2012 by bamsmacked

[nanohana]

For anyone interested in a deep Vigilance build this is the one I use. 7/33/0.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500crZIGMRMhddhR.1

 

If you are using this as your PvP build, my condolescence. If it's for PvE (in which case you can drop Solidfied Force), my apologies.

 

I put up great numbers in Warzones [...] and get 30-40k in Protection each round by simply knowing which enemies to taunt.

 

40k protection as a Guardian is a joke - no matter the spec. Switching to Soresu when required is mandatory. You are playing the wrong class if you don't. Simple as that.

Edited April 10, 2012 by nanohana

[wadecounty]

For those saying you'll never be in a position to use Gather Strength, I'm not sure they understand how the ability procs...

 

Slows/roots proc it, and slows/roots are spammed constantly in warzones. There's a million assassin/shadow tanks right now, and they all love to spam their slow... that's Gather Strength procs left and right. You're not going to ALSO be CC'd everytime it happens, and if you're fighting at an objective, range won't be an issue, the enemies not going to run away from you and let you have a turret or a door.

 

Even if its a Sorc/Sage, a lot of the time you'll still be able to close the gap between them due to other things going on, and you'll also have force leap or push on CD which also lets you still reach them.

 

The other nice thing about enemies spamming slows is that it resets the timer on Gather Strength each time it procs, so say you have 1 stack about to expire, they hit their slow again, you now have 2 stacks and 10 seconds to use them.

 

Flat out, its a PVP ability, and a fairly good one, it'd be dumb not to take it. The only moves you'll trigger it on 95% of the time are Overhead Slash and Dispatch, and those are precisely the moves you want it for.

[bamsmacked]

If you are using this as your PvP build, my condolescence. If it's for PvE (in which case you can drop Solidfied Force), my apologies.

 

 

 

40k protection as a Guardian is a joke - no matter the spec. Switching to Soresu when required is mandatory. You are playing the wrong class if you don't. Simple as that.

 

1.) You admitted before you're not a "Disciple" of Vigilance. My guess is that you never even played the build at all, let alone actually know anything about how the Spec is suppose to work - yet you offer your opinions and knowledge as if you know what your talking about when in reality you know jack-squat.

 

2.) 40k in protection is as a DPS, with out using Soresu and only using taunts? That's a joke? Get real dude. I put up more protection numbers than your typical tank and I hardly ever see Focus/Rage bombers put up more than 5k protection.

 

I don't use Soresu OR do I guard people. I'm not a tank, I specialize in DPS and will taunt burst damage. Switching to Soresu ONLY when I have the ball in huttball. That's it. Furthermore I do not use a shield or even have the necessary talents in the Defense tree to make the most of the form itself. And FINALLY switching to Soresu also clears out the entire resource pool. You do know that switching from form to form does that, right?

 

If I'm NOT A TANK why try to tank? Don't have the gear, nor the talents to make it worth ANYTHING. That would be like a healer actually trying to DPS. It doesn't work that way.

 

Drop the "know it all" bit dude - because based on your posts and input regarding the Vigilance spec you don't know a damn thing you're talking about and should only offer condolences to yourself for being such an ignoramus.

 

I know more about Vigilance than you do because I dunno, been pretty much playing it since Pre-Release - how long have you been playing Vigilance?

Edited April 10, 2012 by bamsmacked

[nanohana]

1.) You admitted before you're not a "Disciple" of Vigilance. My guess is that you never even played the build at all, let alone actually know anything about how the Spec is suppose to work - yet you offer your opinions and knowledge as if you know what your talking about when in reality you know jack-squat.

 

2.) 40k in protection is as a DPS, with out using Soresu and only using taunts? That's a joke? Get real dude. I put up more protection numbers than your typical tank and I hardly ever see Focus/Rage bombers put up more than 5k protection.

 

I don't use Soresu OR do I guard people. I'm not a tank, I specialize in DPS and will taunt burst damage. Switching to Soresu ONLY when I have the ball in huttball. That's it. Furthermore I do not use a shield or even have the necessary talents in the Defense tree to make the most of the form itself. And FINALLY switching to Soresu also clears out the entire resource pool. You do know that switching from form to form does that, right?

 

If I'm NOT A TANK why try to tank? Don't have the gear, nor the talents to make it worth ANYTHING. That would be a healer actually trying to DPS. It doesn't work that way.

 

Drop the "know it all" bit dude - because based on your posts and input regarding the Vigilance spec you don't know a damn thing you're talking about and should only offer condolences to yourself for being such an ignoramus.

 

You are not qualified to pass judgement on my experience with different builds. Yes, I'm not a fan of Vigilance - never claimed I was. This, however, does not mean I haven't been playing it and can't state opinions and provide help to people asking for it. As distinguished from you I just don't consider it necessary to brag about qualifications or achievements.

Even if you keep acting like a prat, I will repeat my advice to helping you with your gameplay: Start rotating stances in PvP. This would be a huge step away from being bad.

[clearsighted]

Getting 300k+ damge done as 14/27 in Void Star is hardly a problem, especially when queuing as a premade group including a healer.

 

And using Master Strike on cooldown is one of the dumbest things I've heard for quite some time. Even beats picking Zen Strike pre 1.2. (For PvP that is.)

 

I've already said in another thread that Master Strike is BS in PvP, but Capuchin swears by consistent 6k hits with it.

[nanohana]

I've already said in another thread that Master Strike is BS in PvP, but Capuchin swears by consistent 6k hits with it.

 

Only the first line of my post about the 300k was related to your quote.

My second line was in response to someone further above advising to use Master Strike on CD in PvP.

I apologize for this misunderstanding, no offense intended, I should have made myself more clear here.

Edited April 10, 2012 by nanohana

[wadecounty]

Master Strike ON CD in pvp right now is unwise, altho it should definitely be mixed in whenever there's an opening. A great example is fighting an assassin or shadow that uses Force Shroud (forget the other name)... typically they'll use this to avoid CC and some damage, and then try to maximize their DPS. You can turn it around on them by firing off a Master Strike, they'll usually take the whole attack.

 

I do like to use Master Strike immediately after a leap, altho the problem with that is the last hit doesn't connect until just after Unremitting wears off, meaning you can still be stopped. However, another great usage is waiting until the opponent wastes their kb, then using freezing force and mixing Master Strike in when necessary.

 

Another usage is to force your enemy to kite when you actually want to get a leap in. Often times if you back up, the enemy anticipates the leap and runs towards you to prevent it. But if you use Master Strike, they'll get moving, and even if you don't finish the attack, you now have the space to get your leap in and get back to DPS-ing, with your DR and CC immunity to boot.

 

Flat out, its just a really nice attack that keeps you full on Focus while still allowing you to keep up your DPS. That's its best usage. In 1.2 its going to be really crazy though.

[CapuchinSeven]

I'm honestly curious how you managed this. It can't have been master strike alone.

 

Will happily post a few screen shots later when I'm home, you'll have to wait a few hours though. You'll have to take my word for it that I'm in Soresu for the full game of course, but there isn't much I can do to prove that or care if you believe me, I'll post the full screenshot though, you'll see my bars. I don't often take screenshots, I'll have a dig around and pull a few out, there are bound to be a few, I snap shots when we beat rivals.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500crh0zZhGr0rhdzGM.1

That's my build. The only difference I made was dropping Pacification for Zen Strike and then using Master Strike whenever I could (for example, Force Leap, (maybe a Freezing Force), Master Strike, Overhead Strike, Master Strike again if refreshed likely clipping this one after two hits, then Force Sweep to see if I can get them closer to a Dispatch to make sure it crits if it's up and isn't wasted on Blade Storm, if not then Blade Storm which crits.

 

I'd totally agree damage can change from map to map and opponent to opponent but I now constantly put out 250k+ damage and regularly top at 300k with that build above where it was around 190k and topping out at 200k before.

 

You don't have to like Master Strike dude or care, I'd never tell you how to play the class a way that doesn't suit you best, this is my build, my play style and my numbers and I can get consistently better DPS when I use it as opposed to not using it.

 

Getting 300k+ damge done as 14/27 in Void Star is hardly a problem, especially when queuing as a premade group including a healer.

 

Yes yes, heard it all before, 30000k is easy, numbers count, numbers don't count, screenshots or it didn't happen, screenshots mean nothing, you just fight bads, come back when you're not killing people in greens, it doesn't count that he's in purple Battlemaster he's a *insert whatever you want* and I can do that with blah blah blah.

 

And using Master Strike on cooldown is one of the dumbest things I've heard for quite some time. Even beats picking Zen Strike pre 1.2. (For PvP that is.)

 

You're funny, mostly because you think I'm not well past the point where I give a crap about what people on this forum have to say about Master Strike in PVP.

 

Like I give a crap what your opinion on a talent is when I can create changes in my damage output.

 

Probably not the kind of funny you were aiming for though.

Edited April 10, 2012 by CapuchinSeven

[nanohana]

You're funny, mostly because you think I'm not well past the point where I give a crap about what people on this forum have to say about Master Strike in PVP.

 

Probably not the kind of funny you were aiming for though.

 

I'm not trying to be funny, nor do I care how you are playing your class. Be my guest and use Master Strike whenever it is off CD.

But please keep your bad council to yourself, some less experienced people might actually take it on trust.

Edited April 10, 2012 by nanohana

[clearsighted]

Will happily post a few screen shots later when I'm home, you'll have to wait a few hours though. You'll have to take my word for it that I'm in Soresu for the full game of course, but there isn't much I can do to prove that or care if you believe me, I'll post the full screenshot though, you'll see my bars. I don't often take screenshots, I'll have a dig around and pull a few out, there are bound to be a few, I snap shots when we beat rivals.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500crh0zZhGr0rhdzGM.1

That's my build. The only difference I made was dropping Pacification for Zen Strike and then using Master Strike whenever I could (for example, Force Leap, (maybe a Freezing Force), Master Strike, Overhead Strike, Master Strike again if refreshed likely clipping this one after two hits, then Force Sweep to see if I can get them closer to a Dispatch to make sure it crits if it's up and isn't wasted on Blade Storm, if not then Blade Storm which crits.

 

I'd totally agree damage can change from map to map and opponent to opponent but I now constantly put out 250k+ damage and regularly top at 300k with that build above where it was around 190k and topping out at 200k before.

 

You don't have to like Master Strike dude or care, I'd never tell you how to play the class a way that doesn't suit you best, this is my build, my play style and my numbers and I can get consistently better DPS when I use it as opposed to not using it.

 

 

 

Yes yes, heard it all before, 30000k is easy, numbers count, numbers don't count, screenshots or it didn't happen, screenshots mean nothing, you just fight bads, come back when you're not killing people in greens, it doesn't count that he's in purple Battlemaster he's a *insert whatever you want* and I can do that with blah blah blah.

 

 

 

You're funny, mostly because you think I'm not well past the point where I give a crap about what people on this forum have to say about Master Strike in PVP.

 

Like I give a crap what your opinion on a talent is when I can create changes in my damage output.

 

Probably not the kind of funny you were aiming for though.

 

If you're telling the truth, then I find that very impressive. I had never thought of trying to go without Riposte in favor of Zen Strike for the Vig/Def hybrid. If it weren't so close to 1.2, I might have tried it out myself to confirm. But if it's true, then we'll see such a build being only more powerful in 1.2, which might be a good time to test it then.

[CapuchinSeven]

But please keep your bad council to yourself, some less experienced people might actually take it on trust.

 

Anything you say dude, I'll just assume they are from the same line of thought as you and incapable of testing something themselves to see which method produces better results for them.

 

If you're telling the truth, then I find that very impressive. I had never thought of trying to go without Riposte in favor of Zen Strike for the Vig/Def hybrid. If it weren't so close to 1.2, I might have tried it out myself to confirm. But if it's true, then we'll see such a build being only more powerful in 1.2, which might be a good time to test it then.

 

I'll try and find a few decent screenshots with decent 1st/2nd place protection as well. I wouldn't expect you to take that as solid proof, I'm a natural skeptic and would freely admit that a few screenshots don't represent a thousands games but I am seeing a large change in my DPS.

 

I'm actually a big fan of a riposte build and don't think enough Guardians take it, everyone seems to skirt around it. I only tried a Zen Strike build to see what would happen to my DPS if I used Master Strike more often, the next build I use will drop two points out of Guard Stance and will put it into Lunge.

[CapuchinSeven]

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9646/screenshot2012040814231.jpg

 

There's a quick one, I'm sure I could find another and another if it's that much of an issue. Protection's pretty crap in that but sometimes games just go that way, still 2nd place.

 

Like I said, this isn't presented in any way as proof of anything other than showing my numbers, Voidstar is always an easier place to build up DPS but before my build change I put out at best 190/200k a game and I now put out 250k+ on the same map on the same server.

[bamsmacked]

You are not qualified to pass judgement on my experience with different builds. Yes, I'm not a fan of Vigilance - never claimed I was. This, however, does not mean I haven't been playing it and can't state opinions and provide help to people asking for it. As distinguished from you I just don't consider it necessary to brag about qualifications or achievements.

Even if you keep acting like a prat, I will repeat my advice to helping you with your gameplay: Start rotating stances in PvP. This would be a huge step away from being bad.

 

You admit that you're not a fan of Vigilance and probably never even played it, and here you are passing your opinions and judgement as if your a expert on the tree itself? Remember when I said the "general consensus of the community." ? You're part of that consensus that has never played Vigilance, thinks it's a PvE only build (Despite the tree having several talents that ONLY work in PvP?) ,oh not surprising either (that same exact crowd also believes Master Strike is bad in PvP - oh my the correlations here do add up.). People pass judgement claiming the build sucks for two reasons -- A. Ignorance, or B. They suck and couldn't make the build work for them, tossed it and whet Focus.

 

Seriously. Drop the know it all bit. You don't know anything about Vigilance. Just because someone is playing a Guardian DOESN'T MAKE THEM A TANK. Switching to Soresu in Vigilance routinely doesn't do any good for the build. It exhausts your resource pool in doing so, and forces you to operate at a -2 focus gains and when 3 of your main abilities cost, 4 and 5 focus this isn't optimal. You'll never be able to do any more damage, you will have slightly more mitigation and NO defense or shield absorb chance because I'm not wearing a generator. Sorry dude NOT how you play a Vigilance Guardian.

 

You don't know what your talking about. If you DON'T KNOW anything about the Vigilance build you're not even qualified to offer input or advice on it. You've NEVER even played it. I'm here offering advice, your here with one clear purpose. Tell everyone Vigilance sucks and that they shouldn't invest into it.

Edited April 10, 2012 by bamsmacked

[TomC]

I thought CapuchinSeven was full of crap a week ago. I've been spamming Master Strike since then and I'm now a believer. I think he also has something else going on in his build that helps more than he acknowledges. He takes 3/3 Accuracy and Master Strike is all white damage. Missing one of the Master Strike ticks can really screw you. Accuracy may be more important in this build than in most others.

 

I'm not yet 50 and I've been racking up medals since I started running Vig in Soresu and using Master Strike every cooldown. 1.2 is going to make this build even better. Look for a nerf in 1.3 if people catch on.

[greekboitjie]

You have quite a few filler points to play with in Vigilance anyways, Unremitting/Protector are fair expenditures. I actually like Unremitting way better than the OP's proposed points in Master Focus, personally.

 

yeah 100%. was just using my above as a demonstration on WHY unremitting is so useful, especially when coupled with protect. this is most true when you're short on focus as guardian leap + saber throw + force leap is great focus generation that i dont see many people use.

 

i simply forgot to quote (i think it was bamsmacked) about his force starved issue..

 

also, this thread started out quite constructive, so thank you for the post!

[CapuchinSeven]

Actually the reason why I think heavy Master Strike/Zen Strike use works so well for me with hybrid defence/vigilance builds is it totally avoids that focus starving issue created by Soresu to limit the DPS output because it costs nothing and hits faster than the same number of GCD's which is what I personally believe Bioware were trying to get us to do when they gave it a much longer range than our normal melee strikes with zero focus cost. Making it un-interruptible is really the final cherry on the cake and will only add to my damage (as well as the damage boost) because my second Master Strike was more prone to interrupt than the first coming off of an unremitting.

 

I don't think something like a full Vigilance Shien build would see as much of a benefit from it combat logging will tell either way though and we should have had them from the start, no idea why they took it out of beta.

[greekboitjie]

Actually the reason why I think heavy Master Strike/Zen Strike use works so well for me with hybrid defence/vigilance builds is it totally avoids that focus starving issue created by Soresu to limit the DPS output because it costs nothing and hits faster than the same number of GCD's which is what I personally believe Bioware were trying to get us to do when they gave it a much longer range than our normal melee strikes with zero focus cost. Making it un-interruptible is really the final cherry on the cake and will only add to my damage (as well as the damage boost) because my second Master Strike was more prone to interrupt than the first coming off of an unremitting.

 

I don't think something like a full Vigilance Shien build would see as much of a benefit from it combat logging will tell either way though and we should have had them from the start, no idea why they took it out of beta.

 

I must admit, played full def and hybrid def/vig, and i really do find use for master strike - one restriction to its use that hasn't been mentioned is to always make sure you use it straight after a sunder strike when your other big attacks are on cd... that way one Master strike will put your sunder strike off cd perfectly, give u an extra push of focus, and by then, main rotation attacks will be off cd..

 

also, capu, if you're finding yourself force starved often, try mixing in Guard Leap+Saber Throw+Force Leap, ESP if u have unremitting and/or protection..

[greekboitjie]

Anything you say dude, I'll just assume they are from the same line of thought as you and incapable of testing something themselves to see which method produces better results for them.

 

 

 

I'll try and find a few decent screenshots with decent 1st/2nd place protection as well. I wouldn't expect you to take that as solid proof, I'm a natural skeptic and would freely admit that a few screenshots don't represent a thousands games but I am seeing a large change in my DPS.

 

I'm actually a big fan of a riposte build and don't think enough Guardians take it, everyone seems to skirt around it. I only tried a Zen Strike build to see what would happen to my DPS if I used Master Strike more often, the next build I use will drop two points out of Guard Stance and will put it into Lunge.

 

i am personally a fan of riposte, and while leveling i dont think i even touched it once! once i hit 50, i realised my error! but i think for the hybrid its a matter of what you're looking for.. imo, riposte route is more "tanky", probably the reason for my pref.

[CapuchinSeven]

also, capu, if you're finding yourself force starved often, try mixing in Guard Leap+Saber Throw+Force Leap, ESP if u have unremitting and/or protection..

 

Actually I'm pretty good with focus usage I think most first time users of a hybrid build suffer with being focused starved but anyone that sticks with the build for a time gets used to it and it's not a problem but in Soresu you will have less focus there's no getting away from that, you just couldn't keep up the constant flow of DPS that a pure Shien build can output.

 

Riposte isn't used enough I don't think, a few points in the talent and you can turn a 2k hit effectively into a 3k hit for the cost of 1 focus, given it's off GCD.

Edited April 11, 2012 by CapuchinSeven