Jedi Guardian - Vigiliance dps guide.

[SigDal]

I do not understand a DPS build not using Master Strike. I don't do raids or the like (solo PvEr here), so maybe the play style of raids is different. However it is a healthy chunk of damage and I can't see myself dropping it.

 

What crowing said. Also I find myself using Master's Strike atleast once every minute, so you don't remove it entirely. If you look on page 2 I put some math there to compare it to Overhead Slash and Plasma Brand.

[SentinelBorg]

The general rotation for Vig is:

 

Sundering Strike - Ability - Ability - repeat

 

For each of those abilities, you choose the highest priority ability you have available which is off cooldown.

 

On the priority list, Master Strike falls below Plasma Brand, Blade Storm, Dispatch, and Overhead Slash, as well as Force Sweep and Cyclone Slash if there are multiple targets. Mostly because Master Strike uses BOTH of the ability slots in that rotation, due it being channeled. So by using it you're essentially skipping two other abilities that would result in more damage. Not to mention that because it's channeled, any kind of knockback, stun, or target movement will probably cause you to miss at least the last tick.

 

So I don't understand why so many people include it. The guy over on sithwarrior.com is the worst culprit, he flat out says "Don't use Master Strike" but then in his suggested build he includes Zen Strike and Master Focus?!?

The problem is, you don't have enough Focus to do a rotation without Master Strike over a long time. That is the main advantage of Master Strike, it does a lot of damage for free.

[Crowingzero]

The problem is, you don't have enough Focus to do a rotation without Master Strike over a long time. That is the main advantage of Master Strike, it does a lot of damage for free.

 

If I find myself Focus starved with Combat Focus still on cooldown, what I do is run away from the boss, then either Leap back in or Saber Throw + Leap back in to generate some Focus.

 

Without combat logs, no one really knows for sure yet what's optimal, so I could very well be wrong, but this is what I've found works best.

 

Also, if you are using Master Strike in those situations, I still don't see how Zen Strike and Master Focus are useful talents. The cooldown on Master Strike is what, 30 seconds? You're not going to be using it more often than that.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Crowingzero

[SigDal]

Yes the Zen Strike talent does not seem needed since when you encounter those moments you don't have rage I find one of the 3 four free spells or combat focus to be ready.

 

As for running out and leaping in again, doesn't this take long time? and in which case it would just be more beneficial to just use Strike?

Might be good if you combine it with Guardian Leap to a range then charge right back in, will have to try that out.

[Crowingzero]

 

As for running out and leaping in again, doesn't this take long time? and in which case it would just be more beneficial to just use Strike?

 

Heh, to be honest I don't even have Strike on my bar anymore. Not because it's useless, but because I already have so many abilities hotkeyed, that seemed like one I could get rid of. I like the Leap back in tactic because it provides 3 focus (or 6 if you Saber Throw first), and it can give you a free Blade Storm with Momentum.

 

Might be good if you combine it with Guardian Leap to a range then charge right back in, will have to try that out.

 

This is something I always mean to do, but in the heat of battle it never seems to work. Either because of positioning or because I'm just too slow in targetting a party member. It doesn't help that I turn my camera around to see where my ranged are, and then the game autoflips my camera back to normal position before I can use Guardian Leap. I'm sure with practice I'll be able to do it fluidly.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Crowingzero

[Jedikillar]

I cetainly agree-at level 12 i can almost always come in 2-5th place in damage in warzones, as well as maintaining a high objectives and kill score, and certainly will almost always manage an assassin(solo kill). I had a lot of fun in a voidstar last night where i was level 12 fighting a 37 jug and a 26 mara at the same time solo and i managed to kill them both(albeit i did go down from a dot the mara put on me after they both died)

 

nice guide too btw, nice to know im not the only one who thinks the class/spec is fine as it is and not extremely underpowered

Edited January 22, 2012 by Jedikillar

[Maltuvion]

Plasma Brand is not worth the focus nor the GCD, imo. Force Rush proc from it makes no difference, Blade Storm would be on CD anyway since Overhead Slash procs it too. By the time it's up, so is Overhead Slash.

 

Except Plasma Brand is a great ability, despite being undertuned/having a wrong tooltip. If you'd have to talk about waste, talk about Master Strike; empirical evidence shows that it is indisputably a dps loss, even while clipping the last tick.

[Phlik]

Thanks for the info - tagged for later viewing.

[Farstrider]

Fantastic guide!

 

Some great advice for those Guardians looking to build an effective Vigilance spec.

 

A question:

 

Has anyone tried using T7 as a tank whilst soloing, he generates a good amount of aggro, just curious.

 

Thanks!

[truevalon]

Fantastic guide!

 

Some great advice for those Guardians looking to build an effective Vigilance spec.

 

A question:

 

Has anyone tried using T7 as a tank whilst soloing, he generates a good amount of aggro, just curious.

 

Thanks!

 

Companion tanks suck. Stick to using Doc.

[Farstrider]

Thanks for that - a damn shame, I love that little droid, I wish it could heal...

 

I had hoped, kitted-out well, he could tank whilst I DPS'd, alas. . .

[SigDal]

Companion tanks suck. Stick to using Doc.

 

This is by no means true. I used kira all the way to level 41, since things died far too slow (in my opinion) with doc out. The extra few seconds you have to rest, you gain by killing things faster. However using kira ment I would be tanking most of the mobs, and once I hit belsavis mobs started hitting so hard, that I got low on every pull.

 

I started to test out using Lord Scourge instead, since I had leveled my gunslinger to 50 using a tank companion without a problem. Things got alot easier. When you mount up, your companion is dismissed, and then instantly resummoned when you dismount. I don't know if this is intended or considered an exploit, but I've been using it to "heal" my companion fast.

 

Lord Scourge also uses the same gear as you, therefore it's not hard to gear yourself, him and a 2nd companion up through quest items. I would guess t7 would work just the same, I just didn't like him pulling things away from me (him beeing ranged). Using a tank companion also makes elites very simple. You basically "trade" who tanks the elite, like let your companion tank untill he is at 40%, then you taunt. When you are at 40%, and the mob is not dead yet, your companion simply taunts back. This way you can minimize the time spent healing back up after combat. Where you make sure both of you take about the same amount of damage.

 

Companion tanks don't have the armor boost normal tanks use, so they basically take the same damage you do in your heavey armor give or take. They do gain the shield boost, but don't have as good gear as you so it evens out. As for Lord Scourges damage, he's not as good as Kira on single target, but he got a really nice aoe. I never used t7 so I can't speak for his dps.

 

As people have stated, Doc is probably the easiest companion to go with, but all companions are absolutley viable. The 2 reasons I droppe Doc was his comments here and there, which were far too arrogant for my taste. And as I said the fact that his dps sucks, him being a healer.

[bamsmacked]

I whole heartily disagree with blade storm being a weaker attack.

 

At level 50 it does close to the same amount of damage as Overhead Strike, and gets a 60% chance to crit with Force Rush and with me having a 85% critical dmg It hits for over 2.5k regularly, plus it has a 10m range.

 

Blade Storm is a bread and butter attack and should be used whenever it's available and should be in any DPSers main rotation.

 

Plasma Brand is a weak talent as well. It is not our hardest hitting ability, Blade Storm and Overhead Slash are from a DPS perspective.

 

With the high focus cost of Plasma Brand, it's pre-requsites of sundering armor and mediocre damage it's simply not that great. Sundering armor first isn't the problem, but I don't always open up with sundering strike if I'm already at 9+ focus. If possible I will leap, get momentum and have the next blade storm for free, Overhead Slash > Blade Storm with a 60% chance to cirt because Force Rush activates after PB or OS and then after that I'll Riposte if needed, force sweep, sunder, and MAYBE use Plasma BLAND.

 

I'm super disappointed in the top tier ability for Jugs and Guardians. It costs too much focus, the damage sucks, and the DOT over 12 seconds is horrendous considering when you're level 50 fights may not even last that long for the dot to actually add up and do decent damage.

 

I've respecced dozens of times for maximum damage out point and from my experience Plasma Bland is really just one of those skills you'd use on weaker enemies in the start of the fight only if you have ample supplies of focus.

 

And maintain and using focus effectively is another issue for Guardians which again, makes a 4 focus costing ability (With Shien activated - but you still require 5 in your pool to cast it.)that's mediocre MEHHHHH...

 

My two-cents, from my personal experience.

 

For DPS the primary attacks should be as followed --

 

Leap, Sundering Strike, Overhead Slash, Blade Storm, Force Sweep, and Master Strike. That's basically it. In between cool downs you can use Slash, Riposte, and Master Strike action or Stasis for some damage, and focus gaining utility. In 1v1 encounters Force Push is also important to use so that you can re-cool down the Leap, and grant a free costing Blade Storm from Momentum.. I do not recommend using PB unless you have ample amount of Focus against anyone because conserving focus will determine whether or not you die.

 

I'd rather burn 4 focus to taunt and root people than do crap damage honestly.

Edited January 23, 2012 by bamsmacked

[Farstrider]

Regarding Plasma Brand - Whilst I think it's initial damage could be upped alittle, and an increase in the DoT would be welcomed I would never consider not taking it, as I don't think there's a viable replacement, accessible in other trees, and it has a chance to refresh Master Strike for added DPS.

 

I am sure, that your build is totally viable, what do you invest the points in?

 

 

Rotating thus:

 

(Saber Throw - on ranged mobs)

Force Leap

Sunder

Plasma Brand

Master Strike

Overhead Strike (Chance to refresh Master Strike)

Blade Storm (Zero Focus cost and Increased chance to crit)

 

Obviously adding other abilities to the mix if the target has'nt expired.

[Jeromet]

I cetainly agree-at level 12 i can almost always come in 2-5th place in damage in warzones, as well as maintaining a high objectives and kill score, and certainly will almost always manage an assassin(solo kill). I had a lot of fun in a voidstar last night where i was level 12 fighting a 37 jug and a 26 mara at the same time solo and i managed to kill them both(albeit i did go down from a dot the mara put on me after they both died)

 

nice guide too btw, nice to know im not the only one who thinks the class/spec is fine as it is and not extremely underpowered

 

So u can determine however a class is fine or not at level 12?? MMK

And those 2 u killed were probably just really bad or u got healed or whatever, since it's ur mirror class etc.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Jeromet

[bamsmacked]

Regarding Plasma Brand - Whilst I think it's initial damage could be upped alittle, and an increase in the DoT would be welcomed I would never consider not taking it, as I don't think there's a viable replacement, accessible in other trees, and it has a chance to refresh Master Strike for added DPS.

 

I am sure, that your build is totally viable, what do you invest the points in?

 

 

Rotating thus:

 

(Saber Throw - on ranged mobs)

Force Leap

Sunder

Plasma Brand

Master Strike

Overhead Strike (Chance to refresh Master Strike)

Blade Storm (Zero Focus cost and Increased chance to crit)

 

Obviously adding other abilities to the mix if the target has'nt expired.

 

Of course you'll want to take Plasma Brand but it shouldn't be an ability you have in a frequent rotation. I use it plenty but only when I know I'll have plenty of focus afterwards.

 

It would be a better ability if the armor debuff and it cost 1 less focus were removed from it.

 

And in your current rotation you wouldn't have enough focus to do the final OS and Blade Storm, unless you already had focus built up - threw your saber before the leap, or used Combat Focus.

 

I found that one of our biggest weakness in a addition to no so great talents, is that maintaining ample focus can be an issue for DPS Guardians.

[SigDal]

There is no reason NOT to take Plama Brand. See some math below. All math is asuming a surge rating of 75% and 25% chance to crit.

 

Plasma Brand: 1,5 sec cast time

2240 damage.

Now asuming a 75% surge rating and 25% chance to crit.

1773,33 dps.

Overhead Slash: 1,5 sec cast time

1640,5 damage + 391 from the dot (Burning Purpose).

Now asuming a 75% surge rating and 25% chance to crit.

1608,27 dps.

 

 

Master's Strike: 3 sec cast time

2796 damage.

Now asuming a 75% surge rating and 25% chance to crit.

1106,75 dps.

 

Blade Storm: 1,5 sec cast time

1545 damage.

Now asuming a 75% surge rating and 85% chance to crit (because of Force Rush.)

1686,2 dps.

Since the dot from talents is not benefitting from the extra crit I'm adding that here:

The dot does about 245 damage, making it:

1880,53 dps

 

This damage is not accounting for the fact that most of Plasma Brand, and the 2 other dots ignores armor. Since Plasma Brand has the highest damage dot it benefits most from that.

 

As you stated; with proper talents Blade Storm is you second hardest dps ability. That does not mean you should skip Plasma Brand. It only costs 1 more focus then the rest of them, has a higher dps then Overhead Slash and deals most of it's damage as elemental damage. If you skip Plasma Brand for any reason, you are simply gimping yourself.

 

With a lower surge rating than 75% Plasma Brand will also be closer in damage to Blade Storm. I cba to find the exact number right now, maybe I will later. Bosses also got armor reduction, further reducing the damage of Blade Storm while only reducing less than half the damage of Plasma Brand

 

I found that one of our biggest weakness in a addition to no so great talents, is that maintaining ample focus can be an issue for DPS Guardians.

If you follow the rotation in my guide, focus will not be a problem at all.

Edited January 23, 2012 by SigDal

[Farstrider]

Of course you'll want to take Plasma Brand but it shouldn't be an ability you have in a frequent rotation. I use it plenty but only when I know I'll have plenty of focus afterwards.

 

It would be a better ability if the armor debuff and it cost 1 less focus were removed from it.

 

And in your current rotation you wouldn't have enough focus to do the final OS and Blade Storm, unless you already had focus built up - threw your saber before the leap, or used Combat Focus.

 

I found that one of our biggest weakness in a addition to no so great talents, is that maintaining ample focus can be an issue for DPS Guardians.

 

Apologies, I missed a Sunder out... But you get the gist of it.

 

[PsychoWedge]

n00bquestions inc.

 

 

What are the stat priorities? I'd guess accuracy up to 100% (so special attacks can't miss anymore) but then what? focus on power for constant bonus damage? or crit and surge? and which ratio? or crit/surge up to cap (which I dont know) and then power?

[LeonidasSith]

This is by no means true. I used kira all the way to level 41, since things died far too slow (in my opinion) with doc out. The extra few seconds you have to rest, you gain by killing things faster. However using kira ment I would be tanking most of the mobs, and once I hit belsavis mobs started hitting so hard, that I got low on every pull.

 

I started to test out using Lord Scourge instead, since I had leveled my gunslinger to 50 using a tank companion without a problem. Things got alot easier. When you mount up, your companion is dismissed, and then instantly resummoned when you dismount. I don't know if this is intended or considered an exploit, but I've been using it to "heal" my companion fast.

 

Lord Scourge also uses the same gear as you, therefore it's not hard to gear yourself, him and a 2nd companion up through quest items. I would guess t7 would work just the same, I just didn't like him pulling things away from me (him beeing ranged). Using a tank companion also makes elites very simple. You basically "trade" who tanks the elite, like let your companion tank untill he is at 40%, then you taunt. When you are at 40%, and the mob is not dead yet, your companion simply taunts back. This way you can minimize the time spent healing back up after combat. Where you make sure both of you take about the same amount of damage.

 

Companion tanks don't have the armor boost normal tanks use, so they basically take the same damage you do in your heavey armor give or take. They do gain the shield boost, but don't have as good gear as you so it evens out. As for Lord Scourges damage, he's not as good as Kira on single target, but he got a really nice aoe. I never used t7 so I can't speak for his dps.

 

As people have stated, Doc is probably the easiest companion to go with, but all companions are absolutley viable. The 2 reasons I droppe Doc was his comments here and there, which were far too arrogant for my taste. And as I said the fact that his dps sucks, him being a healer.

 

My Jedi Guardian is a twink. I already have a level 50, so I gear him and Kira up with the best gear available on the Galactic Market. Between my Force Sweep and Kira's AOE, we tear into mob groups in 5-10 seconds, even including a silver mob.

 

I think if you keep your gear bleeding edge, you want a dps companion with you, so you can tear through stuff super fast.

[Painted]

I have run into bias on my Guardian and I have to argue a few times to convince them I am dps but once I am in the instance they usually are impressed with the damage I do and I end up on peoples friends lists and change a few perceptions at the same time

 

The damage Diff from a Marauder to a dps spec Guardian is supposed to be 5% Per the Devs but that of course does not take into account the player so YMMV

[truevalon]

There is no reason NOT to take Plama Brand. See some math below. All math is asuming a surge rating of 75% and 25% chance to crit.

 

Plasma Brand: 1,5 sec cast time

2240 damage.

Now asuming a 75% surge rating and 25% chance to crit.

1773,33 dps.

Overhead Slash: 1,5 sec cast time

1640,5 damage + 391 from the dot (Burning Purpose).

Now asuming a 75% surge rating and 25% chance to crit.

1608,27 dps.

 

 

Master's Strike: 3 sec cast time

2796 damage.

Now asuming a 75% surge rating and 25% chance to crit.

1106,75 dps.

 

Blade Storm: 1,5 sec cast time

1545 damage.

Now asuming a 75% surge rating and 85% chance to crit (because of Force Rush.)

1686,2 dps.

Since the dot from talents is not benefitting from the extra crit I'm adding that here:

The dot does about 245 damage, making it:

1880,53 dps

 

This damage is not accounting for the fact that most of Plasma Brand, and the 2 other dots ignores armor. Since Plasma Brand has the highest damage dot it benefits most from that.

 

As you stated; with proper talents Blade Storm is you second hardest dps ability. That does not mean you should skip Plasma Brand. It only costs 1 more focus then the rest of them, has a higher dps then Overhead Slash and deals most of it's damage as elemental damage. If you skip Plasma Brand for any reason, you are simply gimping yourself.

 

With a lower surge rating than 75% Plasma Brand will also be closer in damage to Blade Storm. I cba to find the exact number right now, maybe I will later. Bosses also got armor reduction, further reducing the damage of Blade Storm while only reducing less than half the damage of Plasma Brand

 

 

If you follow the rotation in my guide, focus will not be a problem at all.

 

In a lot of cases I am seeing Plasma Brand do more frontload damage than Blade Storm lately. Only a complete fool would skip Plasma Brand

[PlagaNerezza]

IMO you should take 3 points out of insight and put them in unremitting and gather strength. You want to pvp and have immunity from interrupts and CC more than your additional Critical strike chance bonus of 6%.

 

I'll take 4 more seconds of hard dps on a target and a big bonus, because if you are not movement impaired stacking in pvp you must be playing some other game.

 

I haven't tested gather strength but if I read it correctly you can get a 50% melee bonus (dmg?) for 10 seconds. I'd think you'd like that more than a potential critical strike.

 

Lets just say you leap to a smuggler. I have up my usual hunkerdown. I try for sure to cc you. nope. nope. nope. You've gotten 3 attacks. My cc's are on long cooldowns. Now I am trying to run. dead. Or out dps you and hope for some heals, popping stim.

 

Either way you have a big advantage because in the first instance of a fight everyone tries to get off a cc.

 

Cannot interrupt is also huge as I might blow that ability as well and be stuck on cooldown.

 

I will give this a try. I've been looking to convert my guardian to dps.

[greekboitjie]

So my main is a 50 guardian tank (cleared all content, 95% rakata), and i went full defence, and also tried the hybrid tank build. I have main tanked, and off tanked all content too.

 

I think this may help people in Vig tree, as the hybrid goes deep into Vig tree. First of all, i am looking in the context of end game and ops, bearing in mind focus, and a guardian's ability to put out dps while making it easier on the healer (since you get decent survivability, even in Shien).

 

Leaving out Unremitting to me seems unwise, especially when you have the chance to invest in Protector. This has several bonus to your team.

 

1) Force leap should almost always be an opener (after saber throw), so as to maximise your focus build at the start of a boss fight. With unremitting, you are now getting a huge defensive buff, as well as cc-immunity for a few seconds.

2) You can continue to dps as per normal. Once force leap is off cd, spot a ranged person on low health (if noone on low health, find a healer who is usually far), guardian leap to him. Tab back to the boss, saber throw + force leap back in. What you have done now is given the party member a huge defensive buff, as well as yourself (because of Protector). By force leaping back in, you have created massive focus (saber throw + leap) and given yourself another stack of defence (Unremitting).

 

This seems tiresome, but can be executed in 3 GCD's, and you have potentially saved a party member's life, and have DEFINITELY made it easier for the healers by not needing to look at your health bar for SEVERAL seconds, because you have over 50% damage reduction, even if it's just for a few seconds.

 

The selfish bonus to you is an added saber throw + force leap, generating focus for you, and if you have a talented Momentum, a free Blade Storm.

 

Just remember, it seems too much effort, but that is all in 3 GCDs, and can be repeated every time force leap is off cd.

[Onager]

You have quite a few filler points to play with in Vigilance anyways, Unremitting/Protector are fair expenditures. I actually like Unremitting way better than the OP's proposed points in Master Focus, personally.

 

Also the 4 piece Vindicator bonus changes things a bit for the priority rotation. Once at 5 stacks of Sundering Strike, you can Saber Throw in melee range and it does more damage and still generates 3 focus. After 1.2 it'll also still apply Sunder stacks.

 

Which brings me to how the build changes in 1.2:

 

 

• Momentum will be 2 points instead of 3 for the same benefit.
  
• 2 free focus from Zen Strike on proc.
  
• Protector's out, Sundering Throw will replace it.
  
• Commanding Awe gives our new self heal mechanic a 7.5% damage reduction on top of its normal effect per point.
  
• Swelling Winds is getting moved to the Focus tree, and will be a 2 point ability. The total effect will only increase Force Sweep's damage by 10% per point but still take its cooldown down by 1.5 seconds per point. The tradeoff is that Cyclone Slash will benefit from the same boost to damage.
  
• Stagger's replacing Swelling Winds in the Vigilance tree.
  
• Focus economy is getting a boost, not only because of the change to Zen strike but also because Awe and Force Kick will no longer cost focus. This should translate to a solid DPS increase by itself due to higher Focus dump.
  
• Master Strike is going to be uninterruptable and also deal significantly more damage than before. Master Focus will increase its damage further instead of affecting Force Stasis.
  
• Dispatch will activate at 30% instead of 20%.
  

 

 

Think that covers it. I'm pretty stoked, I didn't really feel like we were bad to begin with. I honestly felt general consensus where Vigilance was concerned was going to get dumped on its head just from the advent of combat logs getting into the hands of players who actually knew the spec well enough to play it properly. It's going to be doubly so once these quality of life and DPS flow density changes go into effect. Feels good man. I don't feel nearly as crappy about my sage getting nerfed.