MichellMich Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 One of these days you're going to wake up and realize that casual gamers make up the majority of the player base. I'm not against you playing 12 straight hours a day, 7 days a week if that's your prerogative. But how can you pissed at other players for not wanting to sit in front of a computer all day. You're playing a Star Wars game, this is not some obscure title that can afford to be a niche product for hardcore gamers. It's a multimillion dollar game with real investors, profits matter which means they need a large subscription base. What is this obsession with hardcore gamers thinking everything should be suited to their play style? Games have Hard and Easy modes for a reason... some of us look at gaming as a career, but most are just looking for something to pass the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trixsh Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Think realistically now. If you make a game for minority that has been playing the games of same genre for 10-15+ years, and make it actually challenging to those people, where in your right minds you think the people who are just picking up, would have any possibly changes of surviving the content? The veterans are not called that for nothing. They have years and years of practice behind them, and if you make content for them, and only them, it's gonna be one hell of an empty game.. Let's put it like this, you've never bowled before, and then your friend asks you to come bowl with him and his crew that has been bowling for 10 years. How do you think you'd survive in the contest where other contestants score 250+ consistently, where you struggle to pass 100. You'd not really feel great there I'm pretty sure. Or maybe you would, there's always people who would. But I'm sure majority of people on this planet likes to engage their relaxing activities with people of somewhat same skill. Things change, games change. Games are now days a lot more about money than they were in past decades. If you plan to burn $300mil to make a game for oldschool mmo veterans, the publishers will probably literally roll on the floor laughing. But it's important to remember it's really not the fault of developers. They just kinda need to listen to the guys who control the money faucets. I don't say it's a good thing, but it's just how the things at the current moment are. Be the change you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 No Competitive players = no Casuals trying to be as good as them no game most casual players aren't intrested in getting into a epeen waggling contest with "competitive" players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustrumRidcully Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) MMO players are not role models, much like charles barkley. Casuals strive to have fun, imagine that having fun in a GAME. Oh no! The tyranny of fun! Fun is a pretty general term, and what is fun to some is not fun to everyone. Casuals don't need superhard gameplay, because they can be challenged by "lesser" challenges. I tend to think that beating challenges is something that everyone enjoys, and that may be even needed - but there is a limit to how c hallenging content can be, which depends on how much you play and how much attention you want to give to the game. Ideally, you try to have something for everyone, but if you have to decide between more difficult and easier, you probably need to find the level of challenge that appeals to a larger group. Will casuals ever strive for "more", and thus need content with a harder challenge, and other people to "look up to"? Maybe some do. Which is why you should have both if you can in any way. And it must be genuine challenges. There are bad approaches. Just adding NPC DPS and hit points, for example, may be harder, but does it provide an interesting level of challenge? Does it require more complex strategies, does it require more finesse? Mustrum "Veteran of the D&D Edition Wars" Ridcully *) In case the reference is unknown, this was a critisicim sometimes leveled against the 4th Edition of the Dungeons & Dragons pen & paper roleplaying game, which in advertisement said it was build around focusing on fun. While I personally love the game, saying "this game is about fun" is not really sufficient. Edited January 11, 2012 by MustrumRidcully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Is there any old school mmo player left in the community?? Or do you guys not care anymore?? All i can see now is players who want thing handed to them on a silver platter. When was a challenging a bad thing?? What happened to the brain power needed to complete content?? Where is the satisfaction of actualy doing something?? Hi, I'm here. I'll stay here and complete new content every now and then, but I'm not going to try and fool anyone: There's better games as far as hardcore gameplay goes, and I'm not quitting them just yet. SWTOR currently isn't very satisfying in that department. I'll see how it rolls out in the future, and am currently hoping for the best out of the promised space expansion thingy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die_Scream Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) TBH, I'm more tired of the tired old lumbering dinosaur MMO gamer who whine about how they "..had to work fer sumpthin' in my day!" The world has moved on grandpa, time to join us here in the now, or shuffle over to the couch and put on the 'Wheel. Edited January 11, 2012 by Die_Scream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooggums Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Is there any old school mmo player left in the community?? Or do you guys not care anymore?? All i can see now is players who want thing handed to them on a silver platter. When was a challenging a bad thing?? What happened to the brain power needed to complete content?? Where is the satisfaction of actualy doing something?? The big question is that, is mmo veterans tired of these so called casuals that dont have time to do nothing in this game that wants the same as the guys that actualy do something for the reward they are getting?? The nr1 reason ppl want stuff in mmo`s more easy is that they dont have time to do stuff. But why do you play a game that take hundreds of hours to just get to the endgame content if u dont have time for anthing?? I played MUDs, Multi-User Dungeons back in the 90's. Those games consisted of scrolling text, and leveling primarily came from repetitive grinding of mobs, not quests. North North East East You in a dark room, the exits are east, west, and south. You see a goblin. Attack goblin You swing for 30 damage The goblin falls over dead East You in a dark room, the exits are east, west, and south. You see a goblin. Attack goblin You swing for 30 damage The goblin falls over dead EastYou in a dark room, the exits are east, west, and south. You see a goblin. Attack goblin You swing for 30 damage The goblin falls over dead East So, I spent many hours 'working' for things that didn't matter. Then I played other games, like Final Fantasy, but couldn't get into EQ/DOAC because of the massive amount of time I saw friends wasting getting around and grinding the mobs in the same way as the MUDs, I didn't see the allure. I tried, but didn't play WoW until they lowered the mounts to level 20. Unfortunately that game, like every other MMO, separates the levels so new players MUST grind to the end to play with anyone who plays 30 mins more then them, and travel time means they have to sink large amounts of time at once to accomplish things. That's why 'casuals' who have kids and stuff because members of the opposite sex spend time with them, have a balance of game and personal time. These players, myself included, are quite proficient at games. We don't have either the inclination or time to spend killing 1,000,000 goblins for a chance to have some rare item drop, because we also have lives. We want a challenge for some things, like titles, special mounts, custom gear, and the like. We don't mind there being a special version of most things. What we do draw the line at is extreme RNG that rewards spending 6+ hours a day grinding. Calling time sinks like grinding work is ridiculous. Give me a challenge, not time sinks. Don't hold back basic customization (e.g. limiting colors to 3 for most levels) to reward end game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigOso Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Um. Not really. I would hazard to say most Casuals don't even know what the competitive players are doing let lone care about them or what to be like them. If they want to be as good as the hardcore players they would stop being casuals. QFT ... OP thinks to highly of hardcore ppl again, same old same old. hardcore players are a minute part of this and any other game. Video game companies cant live by making a game tailored to that market alone, its not possible.. not enuff folks to hlp it survive. So they instead develop games for casuals folks with lil bit of hardcore endgame content for that niche of folks. But without us casuals, there would not be many, if at all, any games out there that could survice many years. hence mmo's backbone being a game that plays for many a years. So rly, its about cattering to the over all mass of folks, thats where they get their money... Its not hard of a concept to understand. And most of us out there that play mmo out number the hardcore folks, thats all, its nobodies fault. You tailor a game to the majority of the players that will pay for it. The rest, well you just hope that maybe ur game will interest those hardcore players enuff to get their money too Im sure its tuffer then we all think to find the niche of folks that will pay for a product u made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faythz Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Well, MMO's have became more ''mainstream''. I have played loads of korean mmo's, they were usually insane grindfest. I miss old type MMO's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iusedtoplaywow Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 most casual players aren't intrested in getting into a epeen waggling contest with "competitive" players You're pretty wrong about that...but whatever makes you feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iznigoe Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I am so happy i was able to enjoy most of the old mmo's and the way they had to be played. They are never coming back now and i have already given up on mmo's in general. I like to compare it to music. Mmo's now are the mainstream crap music the youth listens to. Instant pleasure is all they care about, having to work for something is too much of a hassle or "not fun" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharma Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 it is a little lame that SWTOR already has 3 tiers of raid armor and epic pvp gear thats handed out like candy. I don't really see the distinction between people with epics. it use to be that epic gear meant you did something epic. this was a problem that occurred in WoW with wrath. now it's a launch feature of swtor. pretty lame bioware, prettyyyy lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tic- Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 it is a little lame that SWTOR already has 3 tiers of raid armor and epic pvp gear thats handed out like candy. I don't really see the distinction between people with epics. it use to be that epic gear meant you did something epic. this was a problem that occurred in WoW with wrath. now it's a launch feature of swtor. pretty lame bioware, prettyyyy lame. It used to be gear wasn't the be all endgame of MMOs either. /shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowerslayer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I... Need a standard to live by... ? H-huh? For... Video games? You're kidding me, right? I'd rather accomplish my goals in real life and just have FUN in video games. I walk the line between hardcore and casual and I'm fine with that. I don't give two craps what anyone else in video games are doing aside from my friends. I don't need ROLE MODELS. GOOD GOD. What's wrong with people today!? Umad, brother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girdas Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Is there any old school mmo player left in the community?? Or do you guys not care anymore?? All i can see now is players who want thing handed to them on a silver platter. When was a challenging a bad thing?? What happened to the brain power needed to complete content?? Where is the satisfaction of actualy doing something?? The big question is that, is mmo veterans tired of these so called casuals that dont have time to do nothing in this game that wants the same as the guys that actualy do something for the reward they are getting?? The nr1 reason ppl want stuff in mmo`s more easy is that they dont have time to do stuff. But why do you play a game that take hundreds of hours to just get to the endgame content if u dont have time for anthing?? Removed the wall of text Ps: Sorry for bad english ppl. Did not proof read it either,so sorry for that also. Really dude, what does being old skool have to do with being casual? Old skool = You played MMORPGS prior WoW a couple of years, if a quest drop doesnt drop within 3 kills, you do not write a bug report about it. Casual = A player that due to real life, cannot spend XX hours in front of the screen everyday. Raider = someone that can attend to raids, setup by the guild they belong to normally Hardcore = A singel person that believes themselves to be hawt and often brag about their so called conquerings with the opposite sex in ventrilo, spend their time in front of the computer more than it is healthy and has to be amongst the 1st to reach maximum levels in games they play, else it is a ****** game. Edited January 11, 2012 by Girdas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenStarkill Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I don't want to be mean, but the OP is almost unreadable. My eyes started to blur. Needs paragraphs, proper punctuation, etc. (gonna preface this with saying ya my punctuation needs work too, I like commas) I did manage to read some of it and I will agree that I like having challenge in MMO's. I don't want it to feel like a constant grind where everything is hard, but I love when a game throws me a curveball and I overcome the challenge with my skill and wits. This is the very reason I LOVE the Champion mobs scattered throughout the galaxy. They are completely soloable, but it often takes understanding and using sometimes every ability at your disposal to win. In contrast many elites in WoW in my play history simply weren't soloable until you outleveled them or severely twinked a toon with BoAs and the like. Elites hit very hard and have massive healh pools. Champions on the other hand, have massive health pools but do moderate damage. You beat them with skill. I love this. Have killed many champions solo in my level up process, and many of them awarded me with a shiny blue piece of gear for my efforts. Love. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knyghtprowler Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Old School MMO players are still here - I'm 37 and I consider myself old school, been playing since UO days. I also have evolved with every game I have played and adapted to a new style of play. Games just aren't what they used to be, so why should the gamers be what they used to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meldwyn Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Every generation complains about how easy the next generation has it. Jeez, if I wanted to go back to my gaming roots I could complain about how easy early MMO players had it compared to pinball machines or uprights, or even King's Quest and Leisure Suit Larry... blah blah blah... Basically, it comes down to... I am better than you because I played [fill in old game title here] and it was sooooo much harder than you will ever know! Aren't I wonderful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichellMich Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) You're pretty wrong about that...but whatever makes you feel better. Lol, you're the one who's misinformed. Let me guess, you think us casuals are jealous because you can sit in a chair for 12 hours without moving? Let's not put gaming on some sort of pedestal because at the end of the day, society as a whole could care less about your accomplishments here. Edited January 11, 2012 by MichellMich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraxture Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Casuals pay for hardcore players development. I don't understand your disdain for them. No casuals? No game. Goodbye. Also wall of text. Was proven in Darkfall and Mortal, their subs and populations were extremely low, even at their height. Hardcores are a small slice of the pie. I even tried Darkfall after being invited for a free trial and I came across several vets in the starter area. Thought I was dead as a door nail then. They were so desperate for more players they stood around helping and twinking me. Edited January 11, 2012 by Fraxture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheroras Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 wall o text but these decisions are made in the interest of the shareholder first and the customer second unless there can be a massive profit made from a niche game there is no reason to think this will ever change to suit the needs of legendary gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghaiana Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I rather look forward than backward. I've been playing computer games since the late 70's, I'm still often amazed what has been accomplished in a little bit more than 30 years. I hope when I'm old and retired that I can really step into a virtual world as if it was real. Legendary is yet to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontDenyRy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 It is quite simple, these days hardcore simply means unemployed, these people need to feel that they are not wasting their lives in front of a screen, they think they need recognition for spending 19 hours a day doing the same thing over and over again. So they come here and try to convince others that they're something special, they try to convince you that you need to look up to them. Hardcore isn't what hardcore used to mean, it seems it has just become another "cool", effectively these kids are standing around with skateboards and they have no idea how to use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KahnyaGnorc Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The older MMOs (like my first DAoC) were BORING AS HELL to level (farm this group of mobs until you level, then move to the next group of mobs to farm until you level), but for MMOs, nobody knew any better. There were good things about DAoC, and I have some good memories from there. However, newer MMOs, like TOR and LotRO (the two I currently play), are light years better than those early MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awlodarski Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) You're all wrong. Hardcore is getting the crap kicked out of you in Despise after you farmed for hours getting a Vanquish weapon you've been wanting for months, then you get PKed and lose it, then they mutilate your corpse (literally), steal your house key, gate to your home, steal everything inside, and then dismantle your house by claiming the Deed as their own, and relocating to somewhere near their guild town, and they probably smelted down all your armor for guild ingots. Oh, and then they "I wish to lock this down" on your decapitated head on their doorstep as a constant reminder of how bad you got your poo pushed in. THAT is hardcore, and I'd give anything to have that in a modern MMO! **EDIT** Then again, UO was skill based, not level based; which is quite frankly IMO the best type of playstyle. Edited January 11, 2012 by awlodarski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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