Yfelsung Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I never had any issue PvPing as Immortal spec. But, any buffs just make me stronger, so I approve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabaal Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) DPS spec survivability (PvP and PvE) – The DPS specs on Guardian and Juggernaut are performing to our expectations when it comes to the ability to create damage, especially of the burst variety. However their survivability is lagging behind our expectations, especially in the later game, and we are going to start addressing that particular issue in an upcoming patch. This part in particular should be easy enough to address, let our armor count Vs damage types that we currently only have around ~13% resistance too, or even let us spec into more resistance to them. As things stand so many abilities hit us for almost the same as they do light armor users. I just hope they don't end up just adding another cooldown to the DPS trees. Edited January 11, 2012 by Kabaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePandaAttack Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 DPS spec survivability (PvP and PvE) – The DPS specs on Guardian and Juggernaut are performing to our expectations when it comes to the ability to create damage So when we get damage parsers up and running and Juggernauts are 10% or more behind marauders (i.e.- not worth a raid spot), who are we going to submit our complaints to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schneidend Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Mobility/Anti Kiting (PvP) – We agree with the sentiment voiced by the community that some Guardians and Juggernauts have to work harder than other classes to stay within effective combat range, putting them at a disadvantage. We intend to address this in an upcoming patch where, as a first step, Force Push will clear the cooldown of Force Leap, granting for more reliable in combat pursuit capabilities to the Advanced Class. Further changes will be made if necessary. This is a pretty sexy change. Not MASSIVE enough that people will cry foul, but still fun as I love that combo and do it all the time, in both PvE and PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schneidend Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 So when we get damage parsers up and running and Juggernauts are 10% or more behind marauders (i.e.- not worth a raid spot), who are we going to submit our complaints to? Damage seems fine. Even if it weren't, DPS Juggs would be worth bringing for another set of armor reduction debuffs alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsuz Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'm pretty disappointed to see there is nothing about threat generation listed here. The fanbois and 1337 playerz will claim there is nothing wrong but I never had this many problems holding aggro in a progression guild in "the other MMO" as either a warrior or DK. Don't get me wrong, I love the class and don't have any plans to reroll…..but I really wish this problem would be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzlum Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) I have one thing to add to this thread in reply to those whining about getting kb after 4sec immunity is gone and then having to wait for force charge cd to get back into range... If you start most of your pvp fights with force charge.. You don't know how to pvp. L2p. Edited January 11, 2012 by Azzlum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axxar Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Let us move while using ravage and all will be well. This would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I have one thing to add to this thread in reply to those whining about getting kb after 4sec immunity is gone and then having to wait for force charge cd to get back into range... If you start most of your pvp fights with force charge.. You don't know how to pvp. L2p. Or you are playing against people who know that you can't get close without charge and thus kite you. Without charge you will never get close to some classes played by people who know what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiLune Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 So when we get damage parsers up and running and Juggernauts are 10% or more behind marauders (i.e.- not worth a raid spot), who are we going to submit our complaints to? The devs also mentioned the desire to know how much damage you're doing and said they are aware (I am paraphrasing here) and will be creating tools that allow YOU to see how much damage you do. (with the implication being you are the only one that will know.) So, no recount. But we'll get plenty of "check my dps" screenshots and posts that will tell us the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kagek Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Glad to see DPS trees getting more survivability. Definitely felt like a glass cannon while doing some solo quests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffnblue Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 These seem interesting. I think the first one will be fun in hutt ball. I don't however see how this will keep us in effective combat range. Pushing the target out and leaping back to them is a wash, not a gain in up time. Mobility/Anti Kiting (PvP) – We agree with the sentiment voiced by the community that some Guardians and Juggernauts have to work harder than other classes to stay within effective combat range, putting them at a disadvantage. We intend to address this in an upcoming patch where, as a first step, Force Push will clear the cooldown of Force Leap, granting for more reliable in combat pursuit capabilities to the Advanced Class. Further changes will be made if necessary. DPS spec survivability (PvP and PvE) – The DPS specs on Guardian and Juggernaut are performing to our expectations when it comes to the ability to create damage, especially of the burst variety. However their survivability is lagging behind our expectations, especially in the later game, and we are going to start addressing that particular issue in an upcoming patch. Source: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1435443#edit1435443 what Id like to see is pure TANK specs have a passive 30% damage and absorption buff on 100% of the time. NO mmo other than Shadowbane and DAoC have made defense worthwhile. Id say make tanks do LESS damage all around BUT also make the a lot less damage as well. I can guarantee you that all these classes in this game take the SAME amount of damage from players/mobs. And all the classes here have within 1000 hp of each other. The tanks here need to feel like they are mitigating damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I have one thing to add to this thread in reply to those whining about getting kb after 4sec immunity is gone and then having to wait for force charge cd to get back into range... If you start most of your pvp fights with force charge.. You don't know how to pvp. L2p. Lol, right, because ranged classes just let you walk up to them. Sage in a WZ: "Oh look at that Juggernaut over there, oh, hes walking this way? I bet he just wants to say Hi, I'll just stand here until he get's over here and OH MY GOD HE'S STABBING ME WITH HIS SABER WHY WHY GOD WHY!!!!! *knockback* OH MY GOD HE HAS A LEAP???" No, this doesn't happen. Unless they give Juggs a stealth you are not going to catch anyone by just walking up to them in this game. And you know what? Sometimes you have to leap because timing is of the essence, I don't always have the luxury of slow trotting over to help my team and intercede isn't always up/there isn't always a teammate at the place I want to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steinsgate Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Lol, right, because ranged classes just let you walk up to them. Sage in a WZ: "Oh look at that Juggernaut over there, oh, hes walking this way? I bet he just wants to say Hi, I'll just stand here until he get's over here and OH MY GOD HE'S STABBING ME WITH HIS SABER WHY WHY GOD WHY!!!!! *knockback* OH MY GOD HE HAS A LEAP???" No, this doesn't happen. Unless they give Juggs a stealth you are not going to catch anyone by just walking up to them in this game. And you know what? Sometimes you have to leap because timing is of the essence, I don't always have the luxury of slow trotting over to help my team and intercede isn't always up/there isn't always a teammate at the place I want to go. You'd be surprised how many people base their "Jugg is fine L2P" arguments on every single person in a BG letting the warrior sit on them unabated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiLune Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You'd be surprised how many people base their "Jugg is fine L2P" arguments on every single person in a BG letting the warrior sit on them unabated. I call those people "snowflakes." They're so unique and special... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzlum Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Lol, right, because ranged classes just let you walk up to them. Sage in a WZ: "Oh look at that Juggernaut over there, oh, hes walking this way? I bet he just wants to say Hi, I'll just stand here until he get's over here and OH MY GOD HE'S STABBING ME WITH HIS SABER WHY WHY GOD WHY!!!!! *knockback* OH MY GOD HE HAS A LEAP???" No, this doesn't happen. Unless they give Juggs a stealth you are not going to catch anyone by just walking up to them in this game. And you know what? Sometimes you have to leap because timing is of the essence, I don't always have the luxury of slow trotting over to help my team and intercede isn't always up/there isn't always a teammate at the place I want to go. Uhhh... maybe your server is different than mine... but in mine I can run up to people and bash on them constantly... at which point they panic and hit me with a KB... and then i get to Force Charge right back to them. This is how 90% of my battles seem to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steinsgate Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Uhhh... maybe your server is different than mine... but in mine I can run up to people and bash on them constantly... at which point they panic and hit me with a KB... and then i get to Force Charge right back to them. This is how 90% of my battles seem to go. So are you saying you want the balance metric for Warriors to begin with the assumption that everyone else is awful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azzlum Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 So are you saying you want the balance metric for Warriors to begin with the assumption that everyone else is awful? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepickupman Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 let us move while using ravage and all will be well. +9999999999999999999999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarzwald Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 From being someone who has respecced myself into the poor house trying out different variations of Vengeance and Rage I consider this buff to be AMAZING when you are vengeance. Why? Unstoppable. This buff makes vengeance MUCH more viable, at least when it comes to singling out healers/ranged who would want to try to kite you. The refreshed CD on Force Charge will also give you another 4 seconds of unmitigated movement and damage reduction. That combined with the extra rage generated will make deep Vengeance/Shatter much more viable because you will most likely still have rage to burn after a Shatter and Impale. Now only if they would do something about those useless skills like Draining Scream and Eviscerate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steinsgate Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Now only if they would do something about those useless skills like Draining Scream and Eviscerate... Divide Ravage's damage into them equally, then remove Ravage from the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieKirby Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 finally!!! I am so glad survivability is being buffed for guardians and juggernauts, i knew something was wrong with them....not a L2P issue, is it? Seriously though, i am so glad, i got sick and tired of other classes going through content with no problem, while my guardian couldn't, not without severely damage anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snuff Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I don't understand how people have trouble staying in range if they're using Chilling Scream. I mean Gunslingers can KB us and root us and all that, and we can't charge them in cover, but if they couldn't do that, their class would be completely gimp. The fact that we'll be able to move 90m in 4 GCDs seems kinda ridiculous, especially for Huttball. If you base any class balance issue on a minigame you are going in the wrong direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snuff Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This part in particular should be easy enough to address, let our armor count Vs damage types that we currently only have around ~13% resistance too, or even let us spec into more resistance to them. As things stand so many abilities hit us for almost the same as they do light armor users. I just hope they don't end up just adding another cooldown to the DPS trees. The talent that gives us 4% damage reduction should be closer to 10%ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorstog Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Chokes range is too short and it's a channel so it's only viable for Immortals to use to stay on a target and Push has a shortish range as well and is only useful if Leap is up anyway. Yeah, Immortal get an instant until we get epic gear then its back to a channel (for 1 second) but still requires you to stop moving. I really think they just need to give the warrior a 10% move speed increase, and fix mitigation. Then I would be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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