Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[DarthRik]

World of Warcraft is a perfect example, they saw everyone specced the same and removed hybrid builds, and in MOP they have removed the trees all together. This is not a direct fault of meters, but rather a consequence of them in the game. Once again, I understand everyone's argument for them, but just understand that the long term consequences might not be good for the game.

 

why do people think that wows new 6 point talent system will stop cookie cutter builds, your still going to get the best 6 point build for pvp and pve a few months down the line after MoP has been out out the only way to stp this is not to have any talents in the game

 

all blizzard have done is make it easyer for the kids to make that build

[Gohlar]

We had a response on this issue. A combat log is coming, your stats only.

[Kaarina]

We had a response on this issue. A combat log is coming, your stats only.

Wonderful so players can better themselves and check their progress.

 

 

Great compromise

[wikimon]

Wonderful so players can better themselves and check their progress.

 

 

Great compromise

 

it's not a compromise. raid leaders need to know the performance of the people they're leading.

 

here's an illustration.

 

you join a company of 20 people. you only get paid if you sell 200 units this month. easy enough to figure out that you need to sell 10 units per person to get paid.

 

you sell your 10 units.

 

at the end of the month you don't get paid. you have no metrics on how many units anyone else sold.

 

would you work at this company?

[TheSkate]

As my tuppence worth.

 

I've seen raid leaders analyze dps meters and decide that someone isn't dps'ing as good as other players in the raid.

What ahppened, they kicvked them from the raid and eventually the guild.

 

DPS meters may not be the cause of the evil, but they sure allow senior guild players to be complete jerks and destroy communities in favour of a number.

 

For that reason alone, I think players should remember it's a game and play as such. DPs meters ruin games.

 

People are posting saying they are defeating raid bosses...but with no meters. So what reason do you need them for?

 

Hear, hear! I have seen guild members /gquite because some *** hole had to carry on about them not doing enough DPS in a raid when the real failure was lack of coordination. I have seen people kicked from guilds for constantly raging about people being below them on the DPS meter. DPS meters are not the devil, but they help bring the devil out of players that otherwise would be silent.

Meters also force content to be tuned tighter, which is fine for NM I suppose, making it that much more difficult for people that aren't into twitch gaming. A person should not need FPS style reflexes to play an RPG. The MMO portion, with a few twitch style players, should not cancel out the RPG part of the game.

Edited January 15, 2012 by TheSkate

[TheSkate]

I have yet to read any valid reason to not have combat meters, (Which are coming, whether you like it or not). Basically every complaint against them can be translated to such:

 

I don't want combat logs because I'm bad/lazy and I'd rather hide in a raid pointing fingers at other so i can mash my auto attack while watching tv.

 

Seriously, there's no reason not to have them, they are a tool for so much more than damage, If SWTOR wants to make encounters based on Enrage timers, we're going to need them to separate the wheat from the chaff. If you wanna play the game your way with your own spec, then just stick to solo content or play with a group of like minded friends. Your not high end raiding material and you shouldn't be so quick to waste other peoples time by trying to pose as such.

 

I have yet to read a valid reason that the game HAS to have a DPS meter. Basically everyone demanding them can be translated as such:

 

Also I need something to be able to point at others and say it wasn't my fault, I had 30 more DPS than dip **** over there. He sucks, kick him from the raid.

 

While I do not need DPS meters, they do perform a function that min/maxers need to do what they want. The game does not NEED a "everyone can see everyone else' DPS" meter. Someone wanting to maximize their personal DPS can do so with a private DPS meter and I have no problems with something like that being added.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Notannos

[Mayana]

No, reason:

Hardcore starts min/maxing.

Creation of cookie cutter builds.

Cookie cutter builds create gating to be able to see PvE contents.

Majority of users stop using the majority of talents.

Content gets stripped to easy mode: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists-of-pandaria/feature/talent-calculator#Ya!012120

Hardcore return to forums to bash casuals for dumbing down the game....oh the irony.

[Kaarina]

it's not a compromise. raid leaders need to know the performance of the people they're leading.

 

here's an illustration.

 

you join a company of 20 people. you only get paid if you sell 200 units this month. easy enough to figure out that you need to sell 10 units per person to get paid.

 

you sell your 10 units.

 

at the end of the month you don't get paid. you have no metrics on how many units anyone else sold.

 

would you work at this company?

 

 

This is a game, consider not having your nose in my dps as another challenge of this game. Leaders need to know who they are taking to raids, run flashpoints with players to see their skills.

 

 

I am SOO glad there will only be personal ones, I have seen dps meters ruin raiding in other games and good to know this will not follow them.

 

 

I have played and raided in WOW, Aion, and Rift. I know what it takes to be a hard core raider and it is more to do with the individual player and abilities (knowing their class and knowing what to do when things do not go picture perfect.

 

Good for you BW good call on this one

 

 

 

 

 

No, reason:

Hardcore starts min/maxing.

Creation of cookie cutter builds.

Cookie cutter builds create gating to be able to see PvE contents.

Majority of users stop using the majority of talents.

Content gets stripped to easy mode: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists-of-pandaria/feature/talent-calculator#Ya!012120

Hardcore return to forums to bash casuals for dumbing down the game....oh the irony.

 

AMEN call like it is

Edited January 15, 2012 by Kaarina

[GalacticKegger]

This is pretty much _the_ argument against mods. Thanks, I could never find a good way of saying this

Beats flaming.

[Lexis]

this should be pretty easy for them to copy and paste from the PVP matches into each and every boss fight.

[PjPablo]

No, reason:

Hardcore starts min/maxing.

Creation of cookie cutter builds.

Cookie cutter builds create gating to be able to see PvE contents.

Majority of users stop using the majority of talents.

Content gets stripped to easy mode: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists-of-pandaria/feature/talent-calculator#Ya!012120

Hardcore return to forums to bash casuals for dumbing down the game....oh the irony.

 

Already happening even without meters and logs. You will always have min/maxing and cookie cutter in MMOs. That's just the way it is. Hell, you have sites breaking down data from the client to figure out various formulas so they can do their theorycrafting now.

[Voqar]

Yes, because real MMORPGs give players tools.

 

To me asking for stuff like dps meters, threat meters, multi-spec, LFG tools, macro support, and similar stuff isn't asking for extra - it's asking for basic standard features of quality MMORPGs.

 

We need a combat log so we know *** is going on. I get vaporized in a flashpoint, by a mob, whatever, I want to be able to see, oh, I was hit for 20k damage by XXX, maybe I should interrupt or avoid XXX. Guessing sucks. Hoping to notice it in the heat of combat sucks.

 

Same with DPS. I pick good talents. I have good gear. I think I have a good rotation/priority based on what I *can* see in the game, but I can't truly know how well I'm doing without crunching the numbers via combat log and/or parser and/or meter (since a meter doesn't just flaunt epeen - that's for nubs - a REAL meter breaks down the data for you for analysis).

 

Sadly, if BW puts in a dmg meter, it'll be a nub meter lite without the stats, for sure, so it'll be a waste of time for doodz to use to quote their leet dps numbers that mean next to nothing.

 

I like features and I like options. I like a modern MMORPG to be modern, not implimented like it was 10 years ago.

 

People who don't want to use meters can...this may shock some...just not use the meter, and instaed of being pigheaded and selfish and trying to tell others how to play, they can just sit quietly and not use an optional feature that many others dearly want.

 

I want target of target too. It's a basic feature that's been around forever. How can anyone with a fucntional brain be against this one? Dunno, but I be some people here are. When I'm tanking I want to know what the mob I'm on is attacking, because it's not always immediately obvious, especially when mobs do long animations and/or are slow to respond to taunt, or are doing who knows what.

 

A threat meter or indicator would be nice too...almost like the game released around 2012 instead of 2000. Target of target would suffice but most modern MMORPGs that are actually finished and full featured have threat indication.... it's kind of a standard feature now for quality games.

[wikimon]

This is a game, consider not having your nose in my dps as another challenge of this game. Leaders need to know who they are taking to raids, run flashpoints with players to see their skills.

 

I am SOO glad there will only be personal ones, I have seen dps meters ruin raiding in other games and good to know this will not follow them.

 

and of course you don't answer the question because you know i'm right.

 

you wouldn't work at any place where getting paid was contingent on OTHER PEOPLE'S performance and you had absolutely no control or knowledge of same.

 

you have absolutely no reason to be complaining. even with DPS meters your position is completely secure. join a guild that doesn't run meters. done.

 

you have absolutely no call to deny the rest of us our required tools when adding same does not even affect your game at all

[TorqueoMilitaris]

I'm not supporting any ingame dmg-meter, or UI element or better map/minimap or aggro meter or gearscore, because they do them wrong first time, I'm sure, and we have to wait several patches to fix them or make them more user-friendly. I'm supporting player-made addons, like in many other MMOs, because players knows, what they need, and how should things works not the developers, most of with 0 MMO experience. I dont want to w8 years to SWtoR match todays MMO Edited January 16, 2012 by TorqueoMilitaris

[Kaarina]

 

you have absolutely no call to deny the rest of us our required tools when adding same does not even affect your game at all

 

 

I do have reason, it leads to cookie cutter chars, or else you can not come raiding. The game gets very boring when all. Maybe for once people can not ruin the game and learn to play as a group and not according to a meter? Private ones are good to allow players to max their dps rotations ect. But other than that, no

 

And it is not a Required tool if you run with people in flashpoints and such you can see if they know their char if you can not tell, then maybe you should roll one of every char so you can learn them then you can tell.

 

 

NO to Recount or any other group/raid wide DPS meters

 

Leave cookie cutters in the kitchen, let characters be unique to each player

 

 

 

PS you may agree or not agree but that does not make you right and others wrong. We all have the right to our own opinion

[TheSkate]

and of course you don't answer the question because you know i'm right.

 

you wouldn't work at any place where getting paid was contingent on OTHER PEOPLE'S performance and you had absolutely no control or knowledge of same.

 

you have absolutely no reason to be complaining. even with DPS meters your position is completely secure. join a guild that doesn't run meters. done.

 

you have absolutely no call to deny the rest of us our required tools when adding same does not even affect your game at all

 

Considering that DPS meters are NOT required, adding group wide dps meters do affect the game and all content is currently clearable without them you have no call to demand them.

[vobra]

I do have reason, it leads to cookie cutter chars, or else you can not come raiding. The game gets very boring when all. Maybe for once people can not ruin the game and learn to play as a group and not according to a meter? Private ones are good to allow players to max their dps rotations ect. But other than that, no

 

And it is not a Required tool if you run with people in flashpoints and such you can see if they know their char if you can not tell, then maybe you should roll one of every char so you can learn them then you can tell.

 

 

NO to Recount or any other group/raid wide DPS meters

 

Leave cookie cutters in the kitchen, let characters be unique to each player

 

 

 

PS you may agree or not agree but that does not make you right and others wrong. We all have the right to our own opinion

 

 

I'm sorry to say that even without DPS meters the cookie cutter specs are already coming out.

[wikimon]

I do have reason, it leads to cookie cutter chars, or else you can not come raiding.

 

no, if you want a non-cookie, non meter playstyle, simply join a non-cookie, non-metered guild.

 

are you saying there's not enough of you against this to form one?

 

well then, it looks like you're a severe minority that doesn't deserve to be catered to

[wikimon]

Considering that DPS meters are NOT required, adding group wide dps meters do affect the game and all content is currently clearable without them you have no call to demand them.

 

i can drive a car with no side and rear windows too. does that mean i can't make a car with side and rear windows? especially when you're not required to buy it?

 

you're perfectly welcome to continue driving with severely limited vision

[JDSH]

Competition is good, competition is important even if its your previous score. Theory crafting in other MMOs has a fan base of its own just because there is that option.

 

Anything that involves the community outside of the actual game is good for the game.

 

Ad-dons

Theory crafting

Guide Creations

Competitive PvP

 

These all can add to a game, hang on to customers and push a larger community who communicates.

 

A MMO is 60% content 40% community. The more reasons people have to be engaged; the bigger the community the better the game.

 

 

Yes bigger is better, more revenue, more development, more content, brighter devs, better servers, less bugs.

Edited January 16, 2012 by JDSH

[Setanian]

no, if you want a non-cookie, non meter playstyle, simply join a non-cookie, non-metered guild.

 

On the other hand of you want to win everything is easy-mode, join the special-needs guilds. They use all kinds of tools to help them win.

[Buur]

On the other hand of you want to win everything is easy-mode, join the special-needs guilds. They use all kinds of tools to help them win.

 

That isn't an option right now. Nice try.

[DragonAgeOrgins]

Why don't we just re-name this game. WOW2? then you can bring every type of ADD ON. NO. I say no to recount. Why? because we don't NEED it. People are clearing content just fine. I have never heard a person tell me. "Content too hard need recount" the day they bring recount.

 

Is the day I and all my 100 guildmates formally quit the game for good. Recount shown proof in warcraft is a weakness. It's a tool to yell and abuse other player's. It has no place in a nice community. We do not NEED it. A thousand times over. So go soak your tears.

[Buur]

Why don't we just re-name this game. WOW2? then you can bring every type of ADD ON. NO. I say no to recount. Why? because we don't NEED it. People are clearing content just fine. I have never heard a person tell me. "Content too hard need recount" the day they bring recount.

 

Is the day I and all my 100 guildmates formally quit the game for good. Recount shown proof in warcraft is a weakness. It's a tool to yell and abuse other player's. It has no place in a nice community. We do not NEED it. A thousand times over. So go soak your tears.

 

Ya, you sure are fostering that nice community.

[Mastrucatus]

I play mmos since 10 years and didnt know what "Recount" or "Gearscore" is someone had ot explain to me:eek:.

 

And the answer to the initial quesiton is No i dont need stuff like this.