DPS Mercs SUCK.

[indigolol]

Honestly i thought i'd read this thread and see lots of posts giving constructive feedback to the poster about how the class is fine and just requires smart sensible play and the correct use of the environment your pvping in. Instead it's full of posts either flaming others or from people who haven't put any effort into learning the strength's and weakness's of the class.

 

In my opinion there's nothing wrong and if anything we're maybe even a bit to good if played properly it takes a very good player to ever beat me 1v1 and most of the times if i die in a warzone it's due to having 2-3 players hunt me down or it's a jugg in tank gear that i just can't escape. I'm not using this to brag i'm just using it as an example of how good we really can be.

 

Sometimes your just an artillery gun putting out crazy damage from distance supporting other players while at other times your a distraction utilising an incredible amount of survivability to pull 2-3 players away from an objective thus giving your team a massive advantage in numbers and either a cap or a score. Countless times i've sat there laughing at the fact i make people so mad killing them from a hidden position they felt the need to chase me half the map to kill me and thus loosing the warzone in the process.

 

Understand when to run away learn which area's of the map your vunerable don't just mindlessly run around thinking the class sucks cause you chased someone into the pitt and then lost cause another player turned up and helped him.

 

As far as people saying we have no gap creator then learn to use rocket punch more effectively it's 4 meters but while there flying move and make that 6 or 8! If it's particular class you struggle with then stun them you have 2 stuns which can both be cast while moving create that distance again. If your loosing look to reset the fight use a medi kit to heal or grab a healing buff while making sure to knock them away and slow them. Most importantly though if you can't win a fight make sure that whoever kills you has a disadvantage in getting back to kill your team mates!

 

Also and probably most importantly understand that gear does matter i'm rocking 1799 aim and have 17k hp self buffed with rakata aim stim and 55% crit on tracer missile(2 piece pve set bonus) in warzones (mostly pve gear cause in almost 40 bags i got 2 items and bought the bracers while i use the commendations to gear pets as the gear is crap) if you run up to me in quest gear and greens i'll rip your face off before you get me past 80%!

 

Anyway hope someone found this useful and if you want more advice geared towards how i play specific wz's then just say and i'll try and find time to write it up

 

indigo.

lvl 50 merch

Basilisk Droid EU Server

[jackalious]

I've noticed at PvP one match i seem to rock and roll the next it seems I can't last two second with meeting the cloner. I just think your DPS is high so when they see a merc its everybody against a merc. So if I can stay somewhat unnoticed I do well in PvP it's miller time but if I'm noticed it seems like 2 seconds and 4 players wacking on me it not miller time it's cloner time.

 

Either way I have more kills then deaths i notmally finish about 4th or 5th out of both sides and I'm only level 27. So I can't wait for PvP gear or end game gear.

 

Either way I like the career just hope they don't nerf our few strong abilities that will kill the profession.

 

Just remember have fun it's a game. Also it seems there are 1 or 2 people who always have high damage points and go figure they get targeted at the onset of every match. I'll keep my 4 place and run around unnoticed.

[Joshthenosh]

*** mercs are sick DPS seriously i see so many rubbish Bhs out there. get gear learn some stuff, stack crit and surge and pwn the world

[Lemmy_DB]

Seemed to me from the start that arsenal is simply to static for solo pvp play (or even group pvp play without a balanced group/support) - so I've always gone pyro, and often top the dmg/kills charts (often with the least deaths too).

 

I imagine arsenal would work if you had a 'frontline' of melee with you and decent heals and a tank to peel and float guard - but if you queue solo and do 1v1 stuff then you need to be mobile - so you need pyro to not lose dps by being mobile.

 

Yep, I do pyro. I almost always stay at max range. If enemies approach, I kite away. If they make a b-line for me, I'll happily dot them up/explosive dart then los them and only break los for a split second to pop another insta. IF they get close, punt and kite, popping rapid shots all the time - there's a fair chance you'll proc your gas cyl and snare them. Still have electro-dart for a 2nd escape (or to buy time for a heal or two).

 

Someone mentioned kiting is a pve move? Hell no. Pulls them out of heal range into dmg range of more of your allies, making them a big target for everyone to focus while you already have them dotted to the nines.

 

Nothing's a guaranteed win - and if it's a true 1v1 and melee decides to focus me, has more cd's up than me and knows his stuff - then it's tough, and usually time to head to the respawn.

 

Downside is that it doesn't kill patricularly quickly and it's difficult to burst people down - but some burst is possible - only you need to stand still to do it and hope for procs.

[Halphas]

I finish nr1 every single game. Solo queuing. Except vs a good premade, then theres maybe an OP/madness sorc above me.

 

Yeah 1v1 im not gonna beat an operative, marauder or powertech unless they're worse than me(which, luckily, most are).

 

We dont need buffs atm. Operatives need some balancing and perhaps madness spec sorc.

[Cartho]

These kinds of threads are why PvP sucks a steaming pile of balls.

@ OP

No one cares about your pathetic whining. Go away.

[Elrias]

Honestly i thought i'd read this thread and see lots of posts giving constructive feedback to the poster about how the class is fine and just requires smart sensible play and the correct use of the environment your pvping in. Instead it's full of posts either flaming others or from people who haven't put any effort into learning the strength's and weakness's of the class.

 

I think it is unjustified to summarize this as "just learn to play". In this particular case, there are objective arguments supporting the opinion that the arsenal mercenary is underpowered:

 

- There are two classes in the game that could be characterized as "immobile": The arsenal merc and the marksmanship sniper. Being immobile as such is not a problem at all, if you gain other advantages from it. In the case of the marksmanship sniper, this is definitely the case: The sniper is very immobile, but gains a large amount of extra defense from cover, access to aditional cover-skills, and the highest single-target dps output in the game. In the case of the arsenal mercenary, what do you actually gain in return for immobility? The only thing you actually gain is the fact that you get access to your most effective single-target damage rotation (TM-TM-TM-HSM-TM-TM-RS, and Unload when you get a barrage proc). However, even with this damage rotation, the actual damage output is still far inferior to that of a marksmanship sniper in cover.

 

- Several other classes can easily reach a DPS output that is as high as that of a stationary arsenal mercenary. However, unlike the mercenary, other classes retain either their mobility while reaching the same DPS output, or have considerably better survivability, or at least get to an even much higher dps output than the mercenary.

 

- Finally, I'd like to express that your "The posters in this thread just have to learn to play the class properly and do not really understand the game" is really unjustified for several reasons: First, several posters here have considerable PVP experience with a fully-equipped lvl 50-arsenal merc. Second, some other players have started as a mercenary, but then switched to another class because they were diappointed, and have had huge success playing another class... if these players just don't know how to play, how do you explain why they are so much more successful if they just switch to another class? Third, the damage rotation of the arsenal mercenary is actually very simple: The rotation is based on one skill (Tracer missile) with a good damage-per-heat ratio that puts 2 debuffs on the opponent, combined with adding a number of other skills (heat-seeking missile, rail shot, unload) when the conditions (debuffs, barrage proc) are ideal for it. This basic damage rotation cannot really be improved by more experience as a player... experience might tell you a bit more about how to position yourself in PvP, but that's it. For all other classes in the game, you will profit from experience considerably more: There is a huge difference between an experienced and an inexperienced sniper, sith juggernaut, or sorcerer, but relatively little difference between an experienced and an inexperienced arsenal mercenary.

[Furyofwar]

Most people picked the class before the relative class comparisons were really well known. You need to play by your strengths. You are difficult to kill and efficient to heal. If you play with an active guard+spot healer you will be indomitable, and surpass the need for your own mobility/CC. Other than that, sorry. You're one of the worst 1v1 classes in the game. There's nothing wrong with your damage, it's just a complete lack of 1v1 utility.

 

I'm still not sure why anyone would take a DPS in PvE or PvP that can't interrupt. At least you're not a sniper/slinger, and have the chance to get bugged out of your required stances to use core attacks.

 

 

Your so wrong its funny.

 

Let me correct that for you. "YOU" are one of the worse players 1 on 1.

 

Merc is one of if not the best 1 on 1 classes in the game. If you have issues with interupts your spec'ed wrong for 1 on 1 pvp.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Furyofwar

[Xhyron]

These kinds of threads are why PvP sucks a steaming pile of balls.

@ OP

No one cares about your pathetic whining. Go away.

 

Obviously you cared enough to take the time to type out your generic fat kid basement dweller response.

 

Why don't ya do the thread a favor and go choke on the 'steaming pile' you mentioned.

[Slego]

Obviously you cared enough to take the time to type out your generic fat kid basement dweller response.

 

Why don't ya do the thread a favor and go choke on the 'steaming pile' you mentioned.

 

It doesn't matter if you happen to have a valid point or not, the moment you start throwing out "Fat kid in the basement" jokes everyone is going to (correctly) assume you're an ***.

 

I'll echo a previous poster and say that this thread had the potential to be constructive and helpful to people trying to pick apart the class they've committed to, but no one has replied to ANY posts that have people staying on topic, including you, OP. This thread is garbage, close it.

[Camryyn]

Ever played marauder? I got mine to 35, rolled a Merc pyro. I'm currently level 29 and as of now, there is nooooo comparison. Try playing a MELEE class that has zero stuns, no CC, no KBs. This class is fine. Maybe try pyro or change how you pvp. /shrug

[indigolol]

I think it is unjustified to summarize this as "just learn to play". In this particular case, there are objective arguments supporting the opinion that the arsenal mercenary is underpowered:

 

- There are two classes in the game that could be characterized as "immobile": The arsenal merc and the marksmanship sniper. Being immobile as such is not a problem at all, if you gain other advantages from it. In the case of the marksmanship sniper, this is definitely the case: The sniper is very immobile, but gains a large amount of extra defense from cover, access to aditional cover-skills, and the highest single-target dps output in the game. In the case of the arsenal mercenary, what do you actually gain in return for immobility? The only thing you actually gain is the fact that you get access to your most effective single-target damage rotation (TM-TM-TM-HSM-TM-TM-RS, and Unload when you get a barrage proc). However, even with this damage rotation, the actual damage output is still far inferior to that of a marksmanship sniper in cover.

 

- Several other classes can easily reach a DPS output that is as high as that of a stationary arsenal mercenary. However, unlike the mercenary, other classes retain either their mobility while reaching the same DPS output, or have considerably better survivability, or at least get to an even much higher dps output than the mercenary.

 

- Finally, I'd like to express that your "The posters in this thread just have to learn to play the class properly and do not really understand the game" is really unjustified for several reasons: First, several posters here have considerable PVP experience with a fully-equipped lvl 50-arsenal merc. Second, some other players have started as a mercenary, but then switched to another class because they were diappointed, and have had huge success playing another class... if these players just don't know how to play, how do you explain why they are so much more successful if they just switch to another class? Third, the damage rotation of the arsenal mercenary is actually very simple: The rotation is based on one skill (Tracer missile) with a good damage-per-heat ratio that puts 2 debuffs on the opponent, combined with adding a number of other skills (heat-seeking missile, rail shot, unload) when the conditions (debuffs, barrage proc) are ideal for it. This basic damage rotation cannot really be improved by more experience as a player... experience might tell you a bit more about how to position yourself in PvP, but that's it. For all other classes in the game, you will profit from experience considerably more: There is a huge difference between an experienced and an inexperienced sniper, sith juggernaut, or sorcerer, but relatively little difference between an experienced and an inexperienced arsenal mercenary.

 

So you read the opening paragraph and decided to not read the rest and troll me good job

 

I thought my post was pretty constructive and unlike most wasn't just posted after a couple of bad games and without a real understanding of why there loosing so badly in pvp. Today for example i played maybe around 30 games every time i was either top or 2nd on damage done, kills, objectives and medals half i queued solo the rest i played with friends from the guild using ts to communicate. How then can you still claim this class to be underpowered? For example in all those games i think only once i died more than 4 times and that was against a very good premade that knew to focus me down so that i didn't kill the ball carrier and healer before they even had a chance to get near our base. Although since i was also in a premade 4 the time it took for 2-3 players to focus dps me down through all my cd's and me kiting them away from the rest of our team meant we won the game anyway.

 

Also how can you claim that experience means nothing in playing an aresenal merch in pvp when it's entirely about knowing when to move and where to stand. Also claiming that you still use your pve damage rotation in pvp shows a complete lack of knowledge of the class. I use whatever ability i feel is best for the current situation dependant on range, enemy health or if i need to react before a team mate gets killed. It really annoys me to see all these merchs thinking you just spam tracer missile and win cause honestly if the enemy has half a clue he'll run before you cast. Another thing you do know that a full cast unload even without the armor debuff will do more damage during a single cast without the proc that 2 tracer missiles and also slow the target in the process.

 

Anyway i honestly hope you stick with the class as i think it's one of the most fun class's i've ever played in any mmo and as for others finding pvp easier when switching class i guess that just suited their play style better and really there isn't any need for drastic changes within the arsenal tree to accommodate pvp.

[TheNitemare]

First off, just because other classes have problems doesn't mean our issues aren't important. Snipers, Marauders, etc. all have issues just as glaring as ours but they have their own forums, in here we talk about Bounty Hunters.

 

Secondly, the lack of utility a merc BH brings to huttball is saddening. Too many mercs on your team and you lose WORSE than with a PUG because they are so easily countered. Mercs need two things to be worthwhile, highground and no melee beating on them. Put any competent team together and they can completely eliminate both of those resulting in you doing nothing but trying to play catch up.

 

Put 4 Sorcs together on a team and they can dominate the map, they have more stuns, can LOS and DPS on the run, can pull any team member to them and can sprint through fire with a shield. What can we do? Hit them for 3k a few times to drop their shield before they stun us and run past? Ever tried to kill a sorc (or anyone for that matter) that was trying to get away from you? They have 3 times the escape options for our one stun and mobile DPS to boot.

 

Heck, even powertechs are twice as useful as we are in any op. They bring protection, grip, two stuns (one AoE), and can charge across the map plus they do almost completely uninteruptable damage that is almost on par with our own (albeit from a much shorter range). The grip alone is reason enough to bring a PT and a team that runs all the time on my server includes two PTs and two Sorcs, they love to hold the middle and just grip anyone that comes near into fire/acid resulting in an auto kill. Who needs a DPS class when a low cooldown tank ability results in a one shot every time?

 

Thirdly, even our healing spec is very immobile. Healing a running ball carrier is crazy hard without sprint or a shield to allow you time to reposition. Even our AoE heal is difficult to work out and pales in comparison to what a sorc can drop.

 

Bottom line, I'm beginning to think Merc is a PvE class and should just stay out of huttball where the guys with lightsabers can leap around the place winning. At least until we can roll full 8 man groups and find a nice balance of DPS and utility on the team.

[red_travis]

I have learned one thing from playing ranged classes in MMO's. Stand still and you die (if someone see's you that is.). I have tried, Arsenal and BG (wanted to try healing) but have finally specced Pyro and absolutely love it. I am mobile, still seem to be top or close to top in damage and kills and understand that sometimes, it just doesn't matter what I do I am going to die to the melee player (although it seems to never be just one, lol) when they find me (key word being find.).

 

With ranged dps:

 

1. Mobile is good, avoid group melee at all cost's (you will die but so does everyone else)

2. Enjoy throwing out that AoE damage (it helps the team)

3. Melee feels the same way we do when we nuke the crap out of them before they see it coming.

4. 1v1 be careful, keep the DoT's on them, move as much as possible, don't immediately cc them, LoS is your friend and remember regardless of skill, I have yet to see someone win them all.

5. FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE BURN LOL.

 

My two cents (although it's probably not worth that.)

[iamnoobplzhelp]

I've seen some fully decked out mercs get 500k+ damage in Huttball.... HUTTBALL!

 

Twice as much as I normally get as a madness sorc with about 450 expertise, and I am generally on top. I think the DPS mercs are awesome because they have high damage and can tank because of their heavy armor.

[Gadrak]

i personally dont like pyro,the pt version is insanely better,since he has much more burning attacks,that combined with the high survivability can turn him into a beast(not to mention of the railshot of a pyro PT ignores 90% of the enemy armor and deals 9% more damage)

 

plus i like much more arsenal,im mobile like an house but dare to ignore me 5 seconds that i blow the crap out of you

 

i dont like the actual situation of arsenal tbh,but the game was just released i guess that we have wait

 

ps:i would sacrifice virgins to bioware if they allow us to use our jetpack as an escape tool

[ugig]

I too am Arsenal spec, I love the dmg and I dont mind being about as mobile as a tree, my issue is how I cant keep melee's off me at all, I mean most of them have either a jump to or pull to distance closer and it seems they are on ultra short cooldowns because i have literally had a melee jump to me, I used determination to break the root/stun and jet boost to knock em back and they jump right back to me.

 

Sure I have rocket punch talented to provide for the second knockback but its knockback is so small and provides no snare so that by the time I land from using it the enemy is almost back in melee range.

[Thankyjack]

Some people are using a dps/heals hybrid build and loving it. They can sit there destroying everyone and never die.

[Rimbaldo]

I've seen some fully decked out mercs get 500k+ damage in Huttball.... HUTTBALL!

 

Twice as much as I normally get as a madness sorc with about 450 expertise, and I am generally on top. I think the DPS mercs are awesome because they have high damage and can tank because of their heavy armor.

 

It's AoE stat padding. They're not going to kill anybody with that damage unless they're undergeared level 30s.

[Bejita]

I havent seen any good merc dps, no matter how good geared they are they just simply put have zero utility and even a level 10 can escape a fully geared 50 merc dps with no problems whatsoever, the only time they own is when the other team is stupid

 

Some HEALING specs on the other hand are godly in pvp, i mean i was on a team and the sole reason we won hutball matches was because the healing speced merc would just run through everyone and tank them like they were nothing

 

Also there's a hybrid spec some people use that takes kolto shell alot of healing talents and tracer missile which gives you very similar damage to a full speced dps merc but also with all the healing

 

Dont try to be a pure dps on this class in anything but pve or you will saorely dissapointed, this isent even on Biowares radar because there's far bigger unbalances in the game

[DukSaber]

Some people are using a dps/heals hybrid build and loving it. They can sit there destroying everyone and never die.

 

I tried the 24/17 hyrbid build. Its a pretty good healing build actually since you get up past Kolto shell. On the dps side though unload shouldnt even be used in my opinion, same with railshot. Bascially you are left with some aoe and spamming one button with tracer missle.

 

Certainly pvp its a decent spec, pve i just dont think it will work in the long run. Heat will always be a huge factor in operations/flashpoints. Might try it again though not sure. Main reason it works is b/c the top of both bodygaurd and arsenal or kinda lackluster. Emergency scan is ok but not great,,,same thing with HS missles.

[Snaafuu]

I havent seen any good merc dps, no matter how good geared they are they just simply put have zero utility and even a level 10 can escape a fully geared 50 merc dps with no problems whatsoever, the only time they own is when the other team is stupid

 

Some HEALING specs on the other hand are godly in pvp, i mean i was on a team and the sole reason we won hutball matches was because the healing speced merc would just run through everyone and tank them like they were nothing

 

Also there's a hybrid spec some people use that takes kolto shell alot of healing talents and tracer missile which gives you very similar damage to a full speced dps merc but also with all the healing

 

Dont try to be a pure dps on this class in anything but pve or you will saorely dissapointed, this isent even on Biowares radar because there's far bigger unbalances in the game

 

You must be doing it wrong.

Im pyrotech specced, and 9/10 times Im miles ahead of any other dps in warzones.

Great mobility, great damage and great fun. I wouldn't trade my bounty hunter for anything. I'm only in half champion gear, a few centurion and the rest PVE gear from daily quests.

 

I did the weekly today, playing about 15-20 matches and was top in all of them, and I have no premade, only que solo. I just hope they don't nerf us.

 

Some screens for your viewing pleasure.

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9749/screenshot2012011201211.jpg

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6769/screenshot2012010903140.jpg

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/6339/screenshot2012010603232.jpg

[Cegenaus]

ive been facerolled by another merc in huttball. he was hitting me for 2.5-3.5k per move. i think his heatseeker crit for maybe 3.7k. he said he was just using relics (trinkets right?) and adrenals. this leads me to believe that a geared merc could lay down some damage and take anyone short of operatives on 1v1. now if they geared wed be screwed

[thecodont]

I thought the way the original poster did until a few things happened:

1. you need to spec to blow melee away from you (and into the acid or over a ledge, use direction to your advantage).
   
2. i thought the stealth-scan ability was ******** until I saw everyone stealthing away from me just before they died. USE THAT ABILITY! It is great! The first time i used it I saw that bastard Marauder and beat the poop out of him! woot!
   
3. i think for pvp, the rocket-punch knockback and slow spec IS A MUST. you can rocketpunch the melee IN TO THE ACID or over a ledge. DONE.
   
4. use your stuns wisely. if you are 1v1, use your instant stun to your advantage either to get away from a bad situation or to turn the tide in a close battle
   
5. pvp gear helps A LOT. i only have 2 pieces and that makes a big difference.
   
6. know when to run. this is strategy and the best players use it. don't just fight to the death for the sake of it.
   
7. get a guild and PvP with them. I PvP with our healer and I am pretty much unstoppable/unkillable. most healers don't bother JUST HEALING. our healer is awesome. all he does is heal during PvP and everyone stays alive. it is great.
   
8. splashing a bit in to our heal tree can save your life (or your teams lives!). plenty of times I've run to help someone who is 1v2. with 3 points in healing I can keep anyone alive and save the day (not to mention save myself or main-heal a flashpoint)
   
9. Unload can slow people. I used to have this specced and I kind of miss it. it is very useful for when those idiots try to run away. Unload .... slow them ... kill them.
   

 

in summary:

if they sneak, cast your stealth-scan.

if they run, slow them with unload

if they gang up on you, jet boost and run away

otherwise, enjoy your 30 kills and 2-4 deaths. you just won.

 

< polite golf claps >

[RpTheHotrod]

Their DPS doesn't suck. Read up on my guide here:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=172451

Edited January 13, 2012 by RpTheHotrod