The 5k crits need to stop.. NOW

[Shlamorel]

Actually with damage the way it is right now, as a level 50 sage you can be killed from full life by an operative just coming out of stealth before you can even press a button... without a tank that is.

 

So I would argue that because the game may be balanced assuming the healer will have a tank near by it essentially makes it a requirement to have a tank if you are serious about winning.

 

I agree that in other games (WoW for example) having a healer was nearly required for serious pvpers to win as well. But my argument is rather then trying to make that better in TOR, they seem to have made the problem worse by adding another archetype requirement to the mix. Where as Guild Wars 2 seems to be attempting to fix the actual problem.

 

It is disheartening if this is the case, because that means TOR pvp will never be balanced properly unless you roll with a healer+tank in every group you're in.

 

I just don't see the comparison though. If it's pug v pug, the chances are both will just be random people and it will all even out, no? Because according to you, the optimum groups won't be met because it adds a new dimension that must be met.

 

Then if it's premade vs. premade, it's going to be optimum groups - whether it requires 3 archetypes or 2 archetypes.

 

You're right - if you are going against a team that has all 3 archetypes, and your team doesn't, then they may have the upper hand. If both sides are full pugs though, then both teams have an equal chance of having these team makeups.

[Rancorzealot]

No class should be dealing 4 to 5k crits in PvP, let alone the several classes that can deal several of those kind of hits back to back.

 

I don't care what buffs are used, it simply should not be possible to see those kind of numbers with the health pools that players have.

 

If players have say 15k life then DPS classes should not be doing anymore then 1k a hit and possibly 2k on some long cooldown rare high damage attacks. But no more then that.

 

What were the developers thinking? This needs to be balanced very quick.

 

The should add a flat 50% damage reduction against other players. Make it a debuff similar to the 30% healing one.

 

Fix it before pvp is seen as a complete joke in this game.

 

Edit: for those who have not experienced it, here is a link to some videos people on these forms made to demonstrate the point.

 

Video 1:

Video 2:

 

Lol 4-5k crits? I crit 7k on my Guardian. You obviously never played WoW or any other major MMO where ridiculous damage is key to victory!

[Fox_McCloud]

I just don't see the comparison though. If it's pug v pug, the chances are both will just be random people and it will all even out, no? Because according to you, the optimum groups won't be met because it adds a new dimension that must be met.

 

Then if it's premade vs. premade, it's going to be optimum groups - whether it requires 3 archetypes or 2 archetypes.

 

You're right - if you are going against a team that has all 3 archetypes, and your team doesn't, then they may have the upper hand. If both sides are full pugs though, then both teams have an equal chance of having these team makeups.

 

If both sides are pugs, then it is very possible that one side could have all three archetypes while the other side only has two, which would be a huge unbalance allowing operatives to insta kill that sides healers before they can push a button.

 

Does that not seem like a problem for you? Wait to get into a warzone, load in, notice that you do not have any tanks on your side and the enemy pug does.. game over, or play with a severe disadvantage. Not really the kind of balance I would like to see in the game.

[Surgin]

O rly so what if they have 2 operatives doing this for instance

 

 

you understand that even with guard you can both die right ?

 

Ok I love "what ifs"..... lets see here.

 

Damage: 6018+5860+2760 = 14638

 

14638 - 4391.4 (30% reduction from taunt) = 10246.6

 

10246.6/2 (50% split from guard) = 5123.3

 

Now you say if the stars align and this perfect scenario of 2 operatives doing the exact same thing and damage...

 

5123.3*2 = 10246.6

 

14120 (My Vanguards HP) - 10246.6 = 3873.4

 

I LIVED!

 

EDIT: Fixed my math did 20% instead of 30% for taunt

Edited January 9, 2012 by Surgin

[Sirolos]

Lol 4-5k crits? I crit 7k on my Guardian. You obviously never played WoW or any other major MMO where ridiculous damage is key to victory!

 

^

 

O and @OP

 

Did you NOT notice the ADRENALS and STIMS that he popped in the beginning?

 

Or all the random buffs they had?

 

And in your second video he LAGGED hard enough for 2 GCD's

[Fox_McCloud]

^

 

O and @OP

 

Did you NOT notice the ADRENALS and STIMS that he popped in the beginning?

 

Or all the random buffs they had?

 

And in your second video he LAGGED hard enough for 2 GCD's

 

If that is the case, then the adrenals and stims need to be addressed for pvp usage. perhaps disabled.

 

"He used adrenals and stims" as an argument does not make unreasonable damage, reasonable. Its still unreasonable, now you just know how he did it. Great, now lets fix it.

[Surgin]

Whoa and I messed up taunt is 30% not 20% so hell I really lived!

[Reenolols]

Lol? A 50% damage reduc with healing remaining the way it is. Yeah, let's never kill anyone.

[Fox_McCloud]

Lol? A 50% damage reduc with healing remaining the way it is. Yeah, let's never kill anyone.

 

Nerf healing too, whatever.

 

It really doesnt matter what you change, the result that is needed is this:

 

No class, gets insta gibbed. There is a reasonable amount of time that any class can survive, push buttons, react, and actually pvp.. before dying.

 

However you accomplish this, 50% dmg nerf + 50% healing nerf, it really doesn't matter. Just make it happen so people are not getting 7k crits and dying while they are in a stun and cannot even push an instant cast ability.

[Donyon]

About the 1st video... Oh no a lvl 19 getting 2 shotted by a lvl 50. PLEASE FIX !

 

A lvl 50 full pvp gear fighting a lower level player with crappy gear what do you expect ?

 

In Wow, I was playing a lvl 29 rogue twink (full geared)... I 1 or 2 shotted soft class. Does that mean they needed to fix rogue ? No.

 

Yes. Rogues have been horribly broken since early 2007.

[Darthbarbarous]

Wait to get into a warzone, load in, notice that you do not have any tanks on your side and the enemy pug does.. game over, or play with a severe disadvantage. Not really the kind of balance I would like to see in the game.

 

So you rather have no use for tanks and all warzones being zerg fest of DPS with some random healers thrown in? Becasue that is what it will end up being. I agree with the poster above that said this current set up is fresh and new. It gives ppl a reason to play a tank in Warzones and PVP. It also gives reason for people to want to make a group with a tank in it. This is all great and promotes variety of classes in PVP. Take that away and your left with a tank that can guard ppl to help out, but gets no reward for doing so, and hence gets gimped in the long run while helping everyone else achieve what they want. Or if you try to get kills as a tank, there will be no comparison to dps classes and again gimped on trophies/medals. As it stands now, every class has an equal opportunity to reap the rewards of pvp. Which is good and it promotes complete team make ups.

 

All the wow fanbabies need to realize that we do not want complete wow clones for the next 10 years, otherwise the MMO future is bleak. Think outside the very restricted wow box and open your minds to new playstyles in PVP and adjust.

 

As for the complaints on dmg output in this thread, again BW has stated this game will never be balanced around 1v1, so if you lose a duel to a op/scoundrel all the time, stop dueling them. Hello rock, please meet paper........

 

The scoundrel/op dmg is supposed to be front loaded so they can get in, kill and get out. Their issue is that they are squishy and after they blow their front load, they are pretty much a wet noodle. So just dont be a window licker in pvp and run off on your own, its just asking for one of these single target killers to pwn u. And dont cry if it does happen, because guess what, that is their role. If you were stupid enough to leave the security of your group in pvp to be a "hero" then you got what you deserved.

[Idockdudes]

No class should be dealing 4 to 5k crits in PvP, let alone the several classes that can deal several of those kind of hits back to back.

 

I don't care what buffs are used, it simply should not be possible to see those kind of numbers with the health pools that players have.

 

If players have say 15k life then DPS classes should not be doing anymore then 1k a hit and possibly 2k on some long cooldown rare high damage attacks. But no more then that.

 

What were the developers thinking? This needs to be balanced very quick.

 

The should add a flat 50% damage reduction against other players. Make it a debuff similar to the 30% healing one.

 

Fix it before pvp is seen as a complete joke in this game.

 

Edit: for those who have not experienced it, here is a link to some videos people on these forms made to demonstrate the point.

 

Video 1:

Video 2:

 

The designers obviously disagree with you since they made a medal for 5k hits.

[cloudxshadowbane]

Actually they are able to still kill a fully pvped geared 50 in the first stun WITHOUT adrenals and WITHOUT the exp buff.

 

I have not only had it done to myself, I have seen it done to others, I even have a friend with a 50 operative, and I have a guildmate who is a 42 scound. The scound I have personally witnessed taking out a 50 champion geared tank in the first stun, and the tank had a dedicated healer.

 

 

The adrenals and EXP buff are when you see them doing the same damage over and over out of stealth almost like they have zero cooldowns. Their cooldowns, resource cost of their abilities are overpowered by itself, not counting damage, but out of stealth they will use the adrenals and exp buffs on the non openers because the openers do not need it.

Edited January 9, 2012 by cloudxshadowbane

[Idockdudes]

Actually they are able to still kill a fully pvped geared 50 in the first stun WITHOUT adrenals and WITHOUT the exp buff.

 

I have not only had it done to myself, I have seen it done to others, I even have a friend with a 50 operative, and I have a guildmate who is a 42 scound. The scound I have personally witnessed taking out a 50 champion geared tank in the first stun, and the tank had a dedicated healer.

 

Lies.

[MigSebes]

5k crits are intended, heck it's even a medal you can get in warzones.

[cloudxshadowbane]

Lies. I play/rerolled to a op/scound so I could do this. the spotlight..it hurts

 

QFT

 

 

/laugh

 

 

 

5k crits are intended, heck it's even a medal you can get in warzones.

As someone mentioned before, you must not understand the concept, the 5k medal in one hit is counting someone who is buffed/consumabled AND after a setup

Edited January 9, 2012 by cloudxshadowbane

[Idockdudes]

I play a tank actually.

[Airouz]

Nope wrong,gear and level has alot to do with it and the consumeables and if you do not believe me roll one.

I did WZ's this weekend and against 50's with gear i could not take them down in 5 secs,and sith inquis forgetabout it.

 

Sup bro, level 50 op here, learn to play.

 

No class is too hard for scoundrel/operative and it's all because of hidden strike/shoot first combined with acid blade/fletchette. That is all.

 

Also, learn to WZ expertise buff, stims and relics, watch dem 8k's fly.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Airouz

[YuDarvish]

You must be a troll.

 

Keeping high DPS away from you is impossible when that high DPS is stealthed and you only know they are near you when you have been knocked down and are stunned and then dead in 3 seconds before you can even control your character.

 

Aside from that, even a class that is designed to take down light armor classes, should not be doing so before the light armor class even has a chance to respond, that is not fun and that is not fair.

 

The design is NOT to just suddenly die when you blink, from a single operative.

 

If you argue that point then you are likely an operative as well. I think far more likely is that your a troll and should not be taken seriously.

 

Why do people always want the system to bend to their weaknesses? Oh thats right. Cause they are people.

 

Get used to it and move on. Other MMO's have classes that do retarted damage compared to others as well. Plan for it. or tay away from it. ort save yoru cooldowns..or stop playing.

[Modecrypt]

They should leave big crits in the game but remove the healing nerf in PVP.

[cloudxshadowbane]

Why do people always want the system to bend to their weaknesses? Oh thats right. Cause they are people.

 

Get used to it and move on. Other MMO's have classes that do retarted damage compared to others as well. Plan for it. or tay away from it. ort save yoru cooldowns..or stop playing.

 

*rings bell*

and another op/scound player rolls in

 

Conclusion:

Don't nerf my staples button

 

 

 

 

Operatives are only op when baddies who have 0 awareness let them re-stealth cause they to dumb to switch targets when one opens.

 

*rings bell again*

Edited January 9, 2012 by cloudxshadowbane

[Furyofwar]

Operatives are only op when baddies who have 0 awareness let them re-stealth cause they to dumb to switch targets when one opens.

[Chiricahua]

Nope, nope, notta. You are wrong. In fact I think the crits should be bigger. About 65% of the health of a level 50. That's what SWG had. I'm all for brackets. But, I'm really getting sick of all the nerf calls. If your class can't perform the big crits, maybe you should roll a new class. If you have a healer, you can just heal your way out of a fight. I've seen healers so outlast 3 other players attacking them, that the 3 just move on to someone else.

[Sheldon_Ghast]

Definitely need to increasing the healing. Don't know why they nerfed it to begin with. And to the folks who are crying about pvp and the 5k hits. If you plan on leaving then go, just go. You won't hurt anyone's feelings who truly wants to try to get better by playing and learning instead of considering the devs their crutch and assume that if they scream loud enough the devs will dance to their toon.

 

All your videos showed was a level 50 picking off targets that were either at half health or already engaged and getting dps'ed down. They were at full health got the knock down and didn't realize their resolve bar was full so they could use their cc breaker and not get stunned again. Or hey, here is an idea do your best to turn your back AWAY from a class that does their most damage behind you. It's all about strategy and tactics. Team based play. I know it maybe hard to rely on strangers but if you communicate in the beginning you might be amazed at what happens.

 

In your second video, you did show that a 6k hit was possible, but that was a random crit, big deal. All has to do with the RNG. Now if you were showing 5k non crit hits in either video, I'd say there is a problem; but for the most part in the first video the crits were hitting about 2 - 3k and that is except able.

 

Please learn that there are items in game that you can use to help increase your ability to survive in wzs whether they are potions or anything of that nature and stop crying for useless nerfs when there are other game systems in need of the devs attention.

[cloudxshadowbane]

You can really tell how many people are or have already rerolled to play op/scound with all the posts attempting to defend them. not to mention everyday you see more and more in the WZes even low level ones..

 

/laugh

 

Well guys, you attemped, and failed.

 

But I will give the devs the benefit of the doubt, even thought they should have hotfixed a lot of this stuff, they are prob playing each class over and over in diff pvp scenerios just to see how badly they f'ed up, and I can guarantee because of how obvious OP/scounds Overpowere'ness is in addition to some others, it will get nerfed. In light of such no real in depth post or video is needed to show how overpowered they are, because everyone knows it and everyone knows they will get nerfed for a fact.