Solution to dual-spec requests?

[Lethality]

This is an MMO, not a console RPG. People shouldn't try to apply oldschool or console RPG ideology to it.

 

Well, I'm not sure what that has to do with the topic. But thanks.

[Karast]

My problem with dual specs tends to revolve around hybrid classes versus pure classes. When you have hybrid classes which are balanced on par to pure classes with access to a dual spec system, the pure classes become much less desirable for grouping and raiding.

 

There are always fights, and this really applies to any recent MMO. Where you need more tanking, more healing, or more dps. With the dual spec system and functional hybrids who can change role according to the fight, its not really desirable to bring along a pure class since they cannot offer that same utility or flexibility.

 

Because as a pure dps you not competing for a spot with another dps, you competing for a spot with another healer and dps, or another tank and dps. This is a real draw back for the pure classes and I think it can lead them to being under played and simply less desirable.

 

Flexibility is key in MMO raiding.

[Lethality]

My problem with dual specs tends to revolve around hybrid classes versus pure classes. When you have hybrid classes which are balanced on par to pure classes with access to a dual spec system, the pure classes become much less desirable for grouping and raiding.

 

There are always fights, and this really applies to any recent MMO. Where you need more tanking, more healing, or more dps. With the dual spec system and functional hybrids who can change role according to the fight, its not really desirable to bring along a pure class since they cannot offer that same utility or flexibility.

 

Because as a pure dps you not competing for a spot with another dps, you competing for a spot with another healer and dps, or another tank and dps. This is a real draw back for the pure classes and I think it can lead them to being under played and simply less desirable.

 

Flexibility is key in MMO raiding.

 

That's fine, but do you support the idea in the post? Namely, that players who stick with a spec longer are rewarded accordingly... ?

[Kourage]

The solution is... to not allow it.

[kalexkhan]

Most of the responses haven't taken into consideration the solution I presented... let's not just let this turn into another "I want/don't want dual spec".

 

Instead, comment on the suggestion that there should be a cumulative bonus of some sort that builds up over time the longer you stay with the same spec. It doesn't make other players weaker, it makes you a bit stronger.

 

The problem with this notion, is it really does undermine the entire purpose. You can't just look at it as one being stronger, and not the other weaker.

 

People will just say "Looking for one more REAL heal spec only please". or people will say "I don't wanna spec out of tank right now, i have a raid later tonight and don't wanna blow my bonus"

 

Whether you are for or against dual spec, this type of compromise ruins either.

[maximusedward]

Who in their right mind would want to change spec whenever they can? thats gamebreaking.

Op should specify when players wants to change their scpec which should be outside of combat.

 

Dual spec brings a more dynamic gameplay by providing classes a chance to switch roles and try something else and break free from their main roles once in a while without having the issue of stopping what they're doing to travel away for the sake of respec'ing.

Edited January 7, 2012 by maximusedward

[Kurtayn]

So it's like EvE, right? A player that starts playing that game has no chance of catching up to a player who started well over a year ago. I, personally, don't like that system. It rewards longevity while scorning someone who may very well be a great player but is so far behind the curve that they won't be able to overcome the difference.

 

Exactly why I only played EVE for a few months. I was getting my character pretty good, but there was no way I would ever be able to catch up, no matter how much I played or how good I was.

[DaxRendar]

Most of the responses haven't taken into consideration the solution I presented... let's not just let this turn into another "I want/don't want dual spec".

 

Instead, comment on the suggestion that there should be a cumulative bonus of some sort that builds up over time the longer you stay with the same spec. It doesn't make other players weaker, it makes you a bit stronger.

 

As others have mentioned, your original idea as proposed doesn't work because if the bonuses are noticeable they will no longer be considered "nice to have" but instead mandatory for a certain percentage of the community, and if they aren't noticeable than they really don't serve a purpose.

 

It also doesn't address the PvP vs PvE build conundrum - especially on PvE Servers Warzones and Operations are completely separate playstyles that both strongly encourage (some would say require) optimization to be effective, yet your solution would penalize anyone who chooses to participate in both.

[ToliverGrey]

Why do I oppose dual spec? The problems it caused over time to WoW.

 

1. More fighting over loot. "Needing that for my offspec." "Hey, but that's my main spec!" "Well, really it is my main spec too, this is my second spec. So it's mine!"

 

2. Class and gear homogenization. If some classes can do anything at the drop of a hat, what's the point of having classes? Just adopt a classless character system where anyone can do anything. Gear, too, becomes homogenized with dual spec. WoW's gear has simplified down the point of stupidity, where only one stat really matters on each piece.\

 

Frankly, a game where there aren't real differences between characters and gear is boring to me.

[Kurtayn]

If changing specs is so gamebreaking, give it a CD, or don't let it occur if FPs or OPs. I personally thing dual spec is one of the best things Blizzard did. It added a huge amount of replayability for me, and kept me from getting bored with my character for a lot longer than I otherwise would have. I was a tank. Depending on the fight, either 2 or 3 tanks were needed. Since I was able to fill both a DPS and a tank position, I was the swing tank, and wasn't completely useless on the 2 tank fights.

[ddecay]

I dont see a problem with dual-tri-quad whatever spec

[SlickDevlan]

Umm, except they can already pay to swap. Dual spec is just requesitng the cost/annoyance be lowered, its not asking for soemthing not basically already in the game.

 

Silly argument. Respec costs are there for a reason...to keep people from changing specs like they change underwear. The fact that so many are whining about respec costs shows that it must be working.

[Zephyrot]

Easy middle ground.

 

Every time you respec, you pay more. But for every X amount of days n that spec, your respec cost go down to the starting point.

 

So lets say I paid today 10.000 Credits for a respec... but I stay with this spec for a month, the next one wont cost me 20.000, but back to the original 10.000.

[Lethality]

As others have mentioned, your original idea as proposed doesn't work because if the bonuses are noticeable they will no longer be considered "nice to have" but instead mandatory for a certain percentage of the community, and if they aren't noticeable than they really don't serve a purpose.

 

And that's precisely why it solves the problem. It will keep players in one spec, unless they REALLY want the flexibility, then they can switch.

 

It also doesn't address the PvP vs PvE build conundrum - especially on PvE Servers Warzones and Operations are completely separate playstyles that both strongly encourage (some would say require) optimization to be effective, yet your solution would penalize anyone who chooses to participate in both.

 

Players have to learn that if they want to min/max everything they have to pay the price. However, if players realize that "viable" is a perfectly acceptable way to have fun and be competitive, this whole problem goes away.

 

But as long as someone wants to play on the fringe, the just might have to jump through some hoops to play their way.

[Vincethejedi]

I can assure you that BW will implement dual spec. There is no reason not to.

 

The people "Against" dual spec give very poor rationale in my opinion.

 

In a raid group, what will you do with the second tank on a one tank fight?

 

What will you do with the third healer on a two healer fight?

 

Not allowing dual spec, in effect, binds BW to creating cookie-cutter raid bosses that all require the EXACT same raid make-up...boring.. It also prevents the raid from making strategy decisions from boss to boss (e.i. Two healers instead of three, third healer goes dps; certain boss' goes down faster, less healing)

 

The most obvious reason for dual spec is versatility, it also gives each toon better replay-ability should you choose not to roll alts. It's a lot more fun to master two specs within a class, than just one.

 

There is simply no logical reason to be against dual spec, if you think through it carefully.

[artilleryshell]

Interesting idea, but in the mmo genre, it would never fly.

People are highly competitive in this genre, so even a 5% difference in performance would mean no one would ever use the feature.

[NO_Walking]

LF healer for Operations then G2G must have 3 months spec XP.

 

I do not want this in general chat ^^^^^

[maximusedward]

Interesting idea, but in the mmo genre, it would never fly.

People are highly competitive in this genre, so even a 5% difference in performance would mean no one would ever use the feature.

Rly? Which rock have you been hiding within the past 6 years?

[Kunitsukami]

Don't put in duel speccing for 4 years. If the majority of actual game players (you have to be subscribed, playing more than 8 hours a week, and have a level 50 character then you get a vote). And the number of players at this level are given a vote panel when they log in, if over 50% of them say they want it then put it in.

[RachelAnne]

Duel speccing will be need more when more flash points are introduced a long with a FP finding tool. People will never optimize their tanking and healing if they are stuck in that role only. But, if they can duel spec and have a DPS role too, they will. This obviously is a hige benefit to groups because you have tanks and healers that are fully committed to that talent tree when they're in those specs. Which makes them better at their role.

 

So you get better at tanking and healing, if you have a dps spec? LOL this is maybe the worst argument I have ever read...

 

Fact is Dual Spec is not welcome at an RPG. If you want to be everything you can play a shooter.

[Anagnostis]

Easy solution:

 

Ignore the people crying for dual spec. You want to feel unique? You can't be if you and every other player spec in the same stuff.

There are only three roles:

- Tank

- DPS

- Heal

 

Pick one.

[Thunderslice]

Reading peoples responses here make me want to pull my hair out, I think its safe to say that alot of the TOR community is short sited, LFG tool and dual spec should be standard features, they did not ruin the wow community, people are just selfish ******es, no lfg or dual spec will change that, outside of your guild there is little community in a mmo anyways. Get over yourselves people this is NOT A RPG and if you want people to stick around at 50 it better be fun and have flexibly, how much fun are you going to have when there are no more SUBS?

[Haukionkala]

Easy solution:

 

Ignore the people crying for dual spec. You want to feel unique? You can't be if you and every other player spec in the same stuff.

There are only three roles:

- Tank

- DPS

- Heal

 

Pick one.

Easy solution: Ignore this guy. He provided absolutely no reasoning behind his argument.

 

There are two primary modes of gameplay in most MMOs, PvE and PvP. No dual spec pretty much forces you to choose either one if you want to be good. With dual spec, you can actually be competent and have fun in both. Without dual spec it is much more difficult.

 

As for the OP's idea... Not a good one. It would just be a worse form of dual spec. If the bonuses from retaining the same spec for long were practically meaningless, the whole system would be. If the bonuses were actually meaningful, it would create a situation where new players can just never catch up with old players never mind how good they are or how much they play. That would be stupid.

[Mephane]

Really simple solution:

 

Put dual speccing into the game. RPers dont have to use it if they dont want to ruin their character immersion.

 

As an RPer myself I wish for DualSpec to be implemented here as well. I don't think it breaks character immersion, someone can be trained in more than one thing, for example why can't a Trooper be both trained at heavy weapons as well as being a doctor? Its not like a Sage is suddenly becoming a Shadow, all switching within an AC still does not change the overall tone of that character.

[Shivus]

Myth: Dual speccing eradicates meaningful choices.

 

Fact: With paid respecs there are no meaningful choices. Dual speccing just streamlines a process already in game.

 

Challenge: If some players truly want meaningful choices in character development, then they should be entirely in favor of removing paid respecs entirely. If you screw up your build, but don't notice until 50, reroll. If a nerf comes along that makes your build sub par, reroll. If you want to try a slight variation on your build, reroll. There, meaningful development according to certain individuals.