Kaedusz Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) I saw a very very very broad interpretation and an attempt do adapt the sith code to Vitiate.I hate to agree with Purple but it's just not true.A galaxy bereft of the Force and ALL life is not a Sith goal. Edited October 6, 2013 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) That is a very very very broad interpretation and an attempt do adapt the sith code to Vitiate.I hate to agree with purple but it's just not true. A galaxy bereft of the Force and ALL life is not a Sith goal. Power and freedom is every sith has his own ideas of Freedom and power and for Vitiate that is immorality and the destruction of the galaxy is his. He is "Sith" in title for a reason any one who believes other wise is wrong simple as that. In fact I shouldn't have to prove he is a Sith he carries the Title the idea that he isn't thus would fall on those who say he isn't to prove it. To do so you have to prove he doesn't follow the sith tenants or ideals of using the force to gain power and freedom of ones self. Edited October 6, 2013 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 I saw a very very very broad interpretation and an attempt do adapt the sith code to Vitiate.I hate to agree with Purple but it's just not true. A galaxy bereft of the Force and ALL life is not a Sith goal. Did you really just call me "purple"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 There existed a related Force power possessed by a descendant of Darth Vader named Cade Skywalker. This power the ability to bring others back from the brink of death, healing mortal wounds. That's one I am sure I can find a few other if I dug long enough but 1 is enough to prove it exists. This quote proves me right.... The only thing that can heal Mortal Wounds is bringing people actually back from the dead.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 This quote proves me right.... The only thing that can heal Mortal Wounds is bringing people actually back from the dead.... it says "brink of death" not actually back from the dead......... read every word please and thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) it says "brink of death" not actually back from the dead......... read every word please and thank you. Brink of Death = Without that healing power, they'd be dead. Also, was the from wookieepedia? Because you can't use Wookieepedia as a quote, 'cause Wookieepedia says Tobin was dead (Might be from a sourcebook, but it doesn't say) Edited October 6, 2013 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) In fact I shouldn't have to prove he is a Sith he carries the Title the idea that he isn't thus would fall on those who say he isn't to prove it. To do so you have to prove he doesn't follow the sith tenants or ideals of using the force to gain power and freedom of ones self. The Jedi Code can just the same be adapted to a degree to him.Because Vitiate wants to achieve serenity by annihilating everything.This is similar to a Jedi hermit killing or disposing of in another way of a loud fly that disrupts his meditation in the cave. Edited October 6, 2013 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Brink of Death = Without that healing power, they'd be dead. Also, was the from wookieepedia? Because you can't use Wookieepedia as a quote, 'cause Wookieepedia says Tobin was dead (Might be from a sourcebook, but it doesn't say) Congrats that's all I have been saying is that both of the people Traya "healed" would have survived with standard medical attention. The brink of death thing was saying even with standard medical attention they would not survive they NEEDED the power to do so which is what I have been saying....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Congrats that's all I have been saying is that both of the people Traya "healed" would have survived with standard medical attention. The brink of death thing was saying even with standard medical attention they would not survive they NEEDED the power to do so which is what I have been saying....... Yet tobin is described as clinging to the last shred of life. IE, the Verge of death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 The Jedi Code can just the same be adapted to a degree to him.Because Vitiate wants to achieve serenity by annihilating everything.This is similar to a Jedi killing or disposing of in another way of a loud fly that disrupts his meditation in the cave. There is no death, there is the Force. He misses the final and most key element of the Jedi Code he wishes to become immortal and thus fears death. The Jedi do not fear death because there is no death there is only the Force. The "serenity" isn't serenity that he is seeking its "freedom" serenity would mean being at peace with all that is around you as it is and being at peace with yourself as you are. He wishes to change himself into an immortal by destroying everything that's around him thus he doesn't have Serenity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Yet tobin is described as clinging to the last shred of life. IE, the Verge of death. Verge of Death and, Clinging to Life are 2 different things they sound similar but are not. Verge of death is being about to die. Clinging to Life is not allowing ones self to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Verge of Death and, Clinging to Life are 2 different things they sound similar but are not. Verge of death is being about to die. Clinging to Life is not allowing ones self to die. The Last shred of life.... Verge of Death. They're not really different, it just means the first one has a stronger will to live... Hell, Traya puts his survival down to Nihilus anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) There is no death, there is the Force. He misses the final and most key element of the Jedi Code he wishes to become immortal and thus fears death. The Jedi do not fear death because there is no death there is only the Force. The "serenity" isn't serenity that he is seeking its "freedom" serenity would mean being at peace with all that is around you as it is and being at peace with yourself as you are. He wishes to change himself into an immortal by destroying everything that's around him thus he doesn't have Serenity. ''These petty conflicts mean nothing. The concerns of this galaxy are meaningless. Once I ascend, all will be tranquil in this galaxy. It is my promise to you. Now, strike!'' tranquil=serenity.I stand by my point/last post. * * * yes i thought you might mention the death part,that's why i said ''to a degree''.He also misses key elements in the sith code.For example strength and power mean nothing and are meaningless unless you can compare them to someone elses power and strength or exercise them upon something.You can't do that if nothing exists. Edited October 6, 2013 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) ''These petty conflicts mean nothing. The concerns of this galaxy are meaningless. Once I ascend, all will be tranquil in this galaxy. It is my promise to you. Now, strike!'' tranquil=serenity.I stand by my point/last post. * * * yes i thought you might mention the death part,that's why i said ''to a degree''.He also misses key elements in the sith code.Strength and power mean nothing and are meaningless unless you can compare them to someone elses power and strength or exercise them upon something.You can't do that if nothing exists. Wrong..... Strength and power are a means to an ends in the Sith code everything leads to the next in the sith code. he has not achieved said ends as such he still has people to compare his strength and power to as such he still needs them. He isn't hasn't destroyed the galaxy yet and as such he still follows ALL of the Sith tenants. You have to disprove ALL of them for his title to be disproven. He is titles as a "Sith" until he doesn't follow any of the Sith tenants he is still a "Sith". Edit: example a Jedi who has the title of "jedi" who does not follow all of the tenants of the Jedi is considered a "Grey Jedi" as such the Emperor who is titled as a "Sith" does not need to follow every tenant to be a sith just following a few makes his title true. Edited October 6, 2013 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) Wrong..... Strength and power are a means to an ends Uhm...? No. Unless you are a follower of the heretic Darth Krayt.And he doesn't want to wipe everything out of existence. The Sith and the Dark Side offers power,for power's sake,among other things,which are not the lack of existence of ... everything. * * * You say i have to disprove all of them,as if they were ever proven in the first place. The only thing he has in common with the sith is that he was born of the sith race.That's all. Edited October 6, 2013 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Uhm...? No. Unless you are a follower of the heretic Darth Krayt.And he doesn't want to wipe everything out of existence. The Sith and the Dark Side offers power,for power's sake,among other things,which are not the lack of existence of ... everything. * * * You say i have to disprove all of them,as if they were ever proven in the first place. The only thing he has in common with the sith is that he was born of the sith race.That's all. Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. Each piece of the Sith Code is leads to the next.... they are a means to an end. And I have already shown the code applying to him and its not my place to prove he is a sith. According to his title he is a sith the burden of proof is on you. "Sith emperor" he is a sith unless you can prove the code 100% doesn't apply to him with out a shadow of a doubt. Good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) "Sith emperor" he is a sith He doesn't care about these titles and ''Sith Emperor'' is just his public persona. ''...The concerns of this galaxy are meaningless...'' remember? Since the Sith never wanted to wipe everything out of existence ,except with the case with Vitiate and Nihilus,and even the Sith'ari(a perfect being according to the Sith) wouldn't dream of such a thing,he is not a Sith ,until proven otherwise beyond doubt.Which is impossible. Edited October 6, 2013 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. I think I have to agree with Tune on this one. The Sith Emperor may not be conventional in his pursuit of power but he fulfills every line of the Sith Code to the letter. Peace is a lie, there is only passion. This one needs no explanation, while one may point to the fact that Emperor is seemingly emotionless. There is a difference between simply emotions and passion. And according to the SWTOR Encyclopedia: "Young Sith flocked to the emotionless and enigmatic Lord Vitiate. He told them to restrain their emotions and let anger fuel their power from within." Anger = passion, so yeah that box is most certainly ticked. Through passion, I gain strength. Again, anger fueling power from within. Anger and hatred is the source of the Sith Emperor's strength, however buried. That's another box ticked. Through strength, I gain power. The foundation of the Sith Emperor's powerbase is the dark side of the Force. The ritual of Nathema, his is own immortality, the Hands, the Wrath, the Voice, the Royal Guard and countless other disciples of his are products of his power in the Force. The final ritual itself that he seeks to perform is one of strength becoming power. Another box ticked. Through power, I gain victory Victory over the Republic, victory in the form of devouring the galaxy etc. The Emperor has goals, he therefore has ambitions of being victorious by completing said goals. Another box ticked. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. The very goal that the Emperor perceives is one of freedom. He proclaims that "There is no death, there is only the Force. And I am its master." He seeks freedom from death, he seeks freedom from the Force itself by becoming dominant over it and by destroying the galaxy and the universe itself he hopes to complete his acension to encompass total dominance over every living thing in the galaxy and total freedom to do as he pleases. "I will experience or ignore them as I wish, I will spend eternity becoming everything, a farmer, an artist. A simple man. When every living being in the Galaxy finally dies, I will have peace, and wait for the cycle to start again." This is ultimate freedom, freedom to do whatever and be whatever he pleases. I cannot think of a purer expression of freedom that to be able to experience whatever you want and be whatever you want. And the Force? He's free of that as well, effectively the entire universe is his oyster. That is his ultimate goal. Box most certainly ticked. And of course, he has freedom to do it all over again. Infinitely. Infinite freedom, infinite power. That is what every follower of the Sith Code ultimately aspires for. But perhaps few truly understand what it really entails. So yeah, the Sith Emperor may not hold the title of Sith Lord but his ultimate goal is to achieve the tenants of the Sith Code in its entirety. The only reason that we perceive his goals to be abject to this is because, well, "we perceive a fraction of reality" the idea of total freedom from the Force is not as we would initially imagine it. We forget that conquering the galaxy, crushing the Jedi and becoming uber-powerful does not fulfill the Sith Code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) He doesn't care about these titles and ''Sith Emperor'' is just his public persona. ''...The concerns of this galaxy are meaningless...'' remember? Since the Sith never wanted to wipe everything out of existence ,except with the case with Vitiate and Nihilus,and even the Sith'ari(a perfect being according to the Sith) wouldn't dream of such a thing,he is not a Sith ,until proven otherwise beyond doubt. example a Jedi who has the title of "jedi" who does not follow all of the tenants of the Jedi is considered a "Grey Jedi" as such the Emperor who is titled as a "Sith" does not need to follow every tenant to be a sith just following a few makes his title true. He is sith in title regardless of what he cares about. here let me prove some of the tenants Through strength I gain power. He is the stongest sith thus he has gain the power that comes with being Emperor Through Power I gain Victory He is trying to use his position of power to get others to help him in a ritual to destroy all life Through Victory my chains are broken He wishes to break the chains of mortality that bind all living things The force shall set me free By using the force to become immortal he is free from his fear of death. Would you look at that not only does he have the title of "Sith" but he follows just about every single tenant to the letter. By the way Nihilus was a sith as well so destroying the galaxy is not against the sith code. The Sith code only talks about self what your goal for the galaxy is irrelevant to being a sith or not. While others may never have thought about doing this and others didn't want to do this doesn't make Vitiate less of a sith. He follows all of the tenants and he has the Title of sith. Even if he doesn't care about the world doesn't change what he is. I can not care that I am human doesn't make me not Human. Edit: thank you beni. Edited October 6, 2013 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 I saw a very very very broad interpretation and an attempt do adapt the sith code to Vitiate.I hate to agree with Purple but it's just not true. A galaxy bereft of the Force and ALL life is not a Sith goal.Why not? Surely the only way to achieve total dominate, total freedom, is to effectively usurp the all-powerful force in the galaxy and possibly the universe? To have the power over life and death itself? Where pray tell does the Sith Code say otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) The Jedi Code can just the same be adapted to a degree to him.Because Vitiate wants to achieve serenity by annihilating everything.This is similar to a Jedi hermit killing or disposing of in another way of a loud fly that disrupts his meditation in the cave.I see that as nothing other than ironic. Does the Sith Emperor not recite a line from the Jedi Code. The Jedi and Sith are not as different as one would think. Edited October 6, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 ''These petty conflicts mean nothing. The concerns of this galaxy are meaningless. Once I ascend, all will be tranquil in this galaxy. It is my promise to you. Now, strike!'' tranquil=serenity.I stand by my point/last post. * * * yes i thought you might mention the death part,that's why i said ''to a degree''.He also misses key elements in the sith code.For example strength and power mean nothing and are meaningless unless you can compare them to someone elses power and strength or exercise them upon something.You can't do that if nothing exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) What are you guys talking about? Edited October 6, 2013 by Aurbere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 What are you guys talking about? The "Sith Emperor" is a "Sith" not a....... what ever it is they are saying he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Ok so you are basically saying that i am a socialist even if i destroy Earth and all other socialists?Nevermind the fact that nothing exists anymore,i can be a socialist in peace to all my liking and no1 can disturb me? Heeeey,hey, wait ,wait ,wait ,there is more! I achieved victory for socialism,because every1 on earth is a socialist now.Every1 is equal and there is no social inequality .Ofc every1 on earth is .... me. Superb i say! Apply this to every fantasy or real world teaching or world view that doesn't have explicitly the annihilation of everything in existence in its goals. Seriously i can't wrap my mind around how can you think Vitiate is a proper sith,unless stubbornly wanting to be on that position just for the sake of it.The guy is not a mortal and his goals are not ''mortal''.The goals of the sith concern themselves with things that are mortal and are concerned with how a being views the world,as a mortal.Vitiate doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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