Sith Emperor vs Darth Sidious

[Wolfninjajedi]

OMG...why was this brought back? Also apparently I can still post! For now... Edited December 17, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

OMG...why was this brought back? Also apparently I can still post! For now...

Its the power of the dark side, it want's you to reply!

 

Don't do it Wolf, remember what Yoda said: 'Flame wars are the path to the dark side. Flame wars leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to sufferiiiing.'

[Wolfninjajedi]

Its the power of the dark side, it want's you to reply!

 

Don't do it Wolf, remember what Yoda said: 'Flame wars are the path to the dark side. Flame wars leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to sufferiiiing.'

 

I won't, I already have numerous times and in numerous threads why Sidious > Vitiate. They don't wanna take it? Fine by me, I already proven the point.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Yes, Revan was utterly outclassed by Emperor Vitiate but the latter being wields titanically overwhelming powers and is unmatched in various aspects of Force manipulation in the mythos. This is what I and several others have attempted to explain to you but you continue to overlook this ground reality.

Aside from Sidious, who surpasses him in almost all aspects of the Force in mythos.

 

Which is what I and several others have attempted to explain to you but you continue to overlook this [fancy and frankly quite annoying substitute for "opinion" - someone needs to make a meme]

 

I shall say nothing more on the matter.

[S_W_LeGenD]

Show me the logic and coherency in what I sampled from #646 - there isn't even an argument there to respond to, and clearly if I tried to make one it would be rejected before you even read it. At least that appears to be the attitude.

 

And again, this is not about opinions, its about attitude. I make a claim that Plagueis can challenge the Sith Emperor, your response is: No, look how powerful the Sith Emperor is, he doesn't compare. Then I come along and make a claim that Revan can't challenge Sidious, your response: a logical and coherent argument.

 

So this is my question to you: why can't you apply the latter mindset to the former debate.

 

Trust me, I am itching to respond to the arguments you have made on this thread, but I am restraining myself. I never have shyed away from any of the arguments you have ever made. I have responded to everyone.

 

But I am ignoring this one out of principle.

 

Nor will I be bullied into replying as is your usual tactic when I have enough.

Ok, I understand now.

 

Next time, I would simply ask "why" and respond to the presented argument afterwards.

 

Oh and before you accuse me of doing the same thing, but asserting Plagueis can challenge the Sith Emperor and rejecting that Revan can challenge Sidious. This is a question of attitude and approach here. I feel that I have responded to that argument in a reasoned manner, if I had not you would not have been able to fashion counter arguments. I did not just dismiss his point with a statement like this:

 

 

Or this:

 

Or this:

 

Or this:

 

 

Or worst of all:

 

 

Try subsituting in these comments the word Plagueis with Revan and Sith Emperor with Sidious. Now imagine I had made those remarks in response to what you just posted. How does that make you feel?

 

I actually made an effort to formulate argument and make a comparison between Sidious' and Revan's capabilities. If you had done the same for Plagueis, instead of just stating that we are wrong as if it is a fact, I would not have berated you. I would have strongly disagreed, but at least I wouldn't have thought of you as a douche.

 

Because this just shows that you don't care, and aren't prepared to have a reasoned discussion.

 

Maybe by laying them out plain, you might know realise affrontive these response are. And how very contrary they are to how you usually conduct yourself when concerning characters from the Old Republic era.

 

P.S. And while I'm putting anything on the table, your reputation is defined by those around you and how you treat them. So yes I most definitely have a say in your reputation, as you do mine, as does every member of the community. We judge you by how you conduct yourself, and I expect I am not along in observing an OR biased.

Ok, I apologize for my mistake, if I came off strange in this respect.

 

My upcoming response will be logical and coherent vis-à-vis Plagueis, I assure you.

[Beniboybling]

Ok, I understand now.

 

Next time, I would simply ask "why" and respond to the presented argument afterwards.

 

Ok, I apologize for my mistake, if I came off strange in this respect.

 

My upcoming response will be logical and coherent vis-à-vis Plagueis, I assure you.

I appreciate the understanding, and will attempt a response to your points here when I have the time.

[Selenial]

OMG...why was this brought back? Also apparently I can still post! For now...

 

Isnt it taken off in maintenance periods?

 

Does that mean you get it until Tuesday? O_O

[Wolfninjajedi]

Isnt it taken off in maintenance periods?

 

Does that mean you get it until Tuesday? O_O

 

But it is Tuesday. O.o

[Selenial]

But it is Tuesday. O.o

 

Wait... When did you resub?

 

There was a 30 day free subscription to those that resubbed around November/December... Check?

[Wolfninjajedi]

Wait... When did you resub?

 

There was a 30 day free subscription to those that resubbed around November/December... Check?

 

Wait I checked....I got 5 days left of sub.

[Selenial]

Wait I checked....I got 5 days left of sub.

 

*Sarcastically claps*

[Aurbere]

Count Dooku, who is apparently much less proficient in the use of Sith lightning then Darth Nyriss, pushed even Grand Master Yoda to his limits with his bursts:

 

 

From Star Wars: Attack of the Clones: Novelization

 

Dooku gave a little growl and thrust forth his hand, loosing a line of blue lightning at the diminutive Master. Yoda caught it in his own hand and turned it aside, but far from easily.

 

"Powerful you have become, Dooku," Yoda admitted, and the Count grinned-but Yoda promptly took that grin away by adding, "The dark side I sense in you."

 

"I have become more powerful than any Jedi," Dooku countered.

 

"Even you, my old Master!"

 

More lightning poured forth from Dooku's hand, but Yoda continued to catch it and turn it, and seemed to become even more settled in his defensive posture.

 

"Much to learn you still have," Yoda remarked.

 

 

Umm... no it didn't? The quote says 'far from easily.' Saying that he was pushed to his limits is an assumption, or simply taking the quote too far. Considering how powerful Yoda is, the only explanation is that Dooku's lightning is incredibly powerful.

 

Yay! More good things for Dooku!

[Beniboybling]

Umm... no it didn't? The quote says 'far from easily.' Saying that he was pushed to his limits is an assumption, or simply taking the quote too far. Considering how powerful Yoda is, the only explanation is that Dooku's lightning is incredibly powerful.

 

Yay! More good things for Dooku!

I concur, as Dooku would say "A bold claim!"

 

Dooku is a powerful practitioner of Force Lightning, and a master wielder of the Force in his own right. In fact if I'm correct he was believed my many to be the Chosen One. Again, lets not underestimate non-OR individuals.

 

In fact I'd say he deserves a place on the list.

 

EDIT: Oh and Aurbere, you wouldn't happen to have TFU novelisation on you?

 

EDIT: All in all I'd say Dooku is very conservative in his use of the Force, he doesn't use more than is necessary so we don't see him summoning storms of energy, but regardless he has displayed so remarkable TK feats.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Selenial]

EDIT: Oh and Aurbere, you wouldn't happen to have TFU novelisation on you?

 

I do, what's up?

[Aurbere]

I concur, as Dooku would say "A bold claim!"

 

Dooku is a powerful practitioner of Force Lightning, and a master wielder of the Force in his own right. In fact if I'm correct he was believed my many to be the Chosen One. Again, lets not underestimate non-OR individuals.

 

In fact I'd say he deserves a place on the list.

 

EDIT: Oh and Aurbere, you wouldn't happen to have TFU novelisation on you?

 

EDIT: All in all I'd say Dooku is very conservative in his use of the Force, he doesn't use more than is necessary so we don't see him summoning storms of energy, but regardless he has displayed so remarkable TK feats.

 

Agreed.

 

And I do have TFU on me. What do you need?

[Beniboybling]

Agreed.

 

And I do have TFU on me. What do you need?

I'll PM you.

[Beniboybling]

I do, what's up?

You too laaaate!

[Selenial]

You too laaaate!

 

Pfft, was totally there first!

 

Speaking of the Force Unleashed... I just found another of my Rulebook Sourcebooks

And for some reason it has Venators....

[Beniboybling]

Pfft, was totally there first!

 

Speaking of the Force Unleashed... I just found another of my Rulebook Sourcebooks

And for some reason it has Venators....

Well actually, there is something you could do for me.

[Selenial]

Well actually, there is something you could do for me.

 

...........

 

Am I going to hear what this is? or...

[Beniboybling]

...........

 

Am I going to hear what this is? or...

Well I didn't want to force it on you, but whatever. Mobilise the army! I'll PM you.

[Aurbere]

I'll PM you.

 

Replied.

[Selenial]

Sent.

 

My hands hurt.

[Aurbere]

Sent.

 

My hands hurt.

 

Well?

[Beniboybling]

OK, the following is my response to Legend's recent argument, and my defense of this post.

 

I'm confused as to Rahm Kota's significance here. But regardless I have already demonstrated how Sidious' lightning has proven too powerful for those wielding even the most stalwart and extraordinary of defenses.

 

Firstly Mace Windu, who attempted to block Sidious' lightning with his lightsaber using Vaapad by creating a superconducting loop. This technique it should be noted is the most advanced method of blocking Force lightning that we are currently aware of in Star Wars mythos, because instead of simply stopping the energy, it absorbs that energy and uses it to sustain the defense. Theoretically creating a never-ending loop that would allow the Force user to hold off such an assault indefinitely. Mace Windu was THE master of this particular form and furthermore in his engagement with Sidious his mastery over this style reached new and previously unreachable levels:

 

Anakin could feel how the Force fed upon the shadow's murderous exaltation; he could feel fury spray into the Force though some poisonous abscess had crested in both their hearts. There was no Jedi restraint here. Mace Windu was cutting loose.

 

Mace was deep in it now: submerged in Vaapad, swallowed by it, he no longer truly existed as an independent being. Vaapad is a channel for darkness, and that darkness flowed both ways. He accepted the furious speed of the Sith Lord, drew the shadow's rage and power into his inmost center—

 

And let it fountain out again. He reflected the fury upon its source as a lightsaber redirects a blaster bolt.

Windu only being capable of this because the revelation that Sidious was a Sith Lord, that the Republic he fought for had been a complete lie, created an inner darkness in him that he forged into a weapon:

 

Anakin's revelation—that Palpatine and Darth Sidious are one and the same—hollows Mace to the core. Not days earlier, he and other Jedi had risked their lives against Grievous's droid forces to prevent Palpatine from being abducted. Grasping that the abduction and the war itself has been nothing more than a deception, Mace leaps into action, promising to take Palpatine into Jedi custody, dead or alive.

Hence the "poisonous abscess had crested in both their hearts". Windu uses the shock of this revelation to make him form even more deadly than before. This is Vaapad at its most extreme and most deadly level, and as a result is able to conduct more energy. Hence why Windu was able to fight Sidious in the first place.

 

Indeed I just want to emphasis how powerful Windu's form was at this time:

 

Anakin blinked and rubbed his eyes again. Maybe he was still a bit flash-blind—the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire. Mace pressed back the darkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his own blade, that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: an oblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once.

It is so powerful and so potent that his own weapon is creating a visible aura. Demonstrating an incredibly affinity between Windu's blade and his own power - or rather the power of Sidious that he was charging it with.

 

And yet:

Now Anakin was at Mace's shoulder. Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face.

 

Palpatine's eyes glowed with power, casting a yellow glare that burned back the rain from around them. "He is a traitor, Anakin. Destroy him."

 

"You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade. "Take him. It's your destiny."

Despite wielding a form specifically geared towards combating the dark side, and channelling dark side energy, and despite Windu being more deeply submerged in Vaapad than he ever was before, Sidious' full power still proved to great for him to handle. It overloaded his superconducting loop. This is quite a clear demonstration of just how dominating Sidious can be, if he is capable of overwhelming such a powerful defense.

 

So lets apply this to Revan, Revan does not possess the advantage of Vaapad. His connection to his weapon is simply not as potent, never has Revan's blade ever created its own aura and never has Revan been noted to be capable of creating superconducting loops - noting that this form had not been invented until Windu perfected Juyo. Nor does bringing Revan's own dominant Force abilities have relevance here, given that Windu through Vaapad had increased his own power to Sidious' level - unless we are about to argue that Revan is equal to Sidious. I sincerely hope not. But I digress, the point is that Revan simply is not capable of channeling the full force of his own power, let alone the power of Darth Sidious into his blade, or rather into the defensive maneuver of blocking one's blade with the Force.

 

Simply put, any defense he erects with his lightsaber will be inferior to that of Windu's. This we can affirm with logical certainty. So what will happen if Revan were to attempt to block Sidious' lightning with his blade?

 

Well firstly lets look at what happens when Revan attempts to block the Sith Emperor's lightning with his lightsaber:

Revan intercepted the bolt with the blade of his lightsaber, but the impact stopped his charge dead in its tracks.

Revan is stopped in his tracks. This would strongly indicate that the power he was dealing with here was difficult for him to handle, given that Kenobi when blocking Count Dooku's lightning did so without impact. An altogether it shows that even Revan struggles to absorb lightning with his lightsaber from powerful opponents such as the Emperor. Now if we are to assume that the Sith Emperor and Darth Sidious are in a similar league, one would assume that a bolt of Sidious' lightning would have similar stopping power.

 

Yet we need not assume, as Sidious' demonstrates the power of his lightning here.

 

Sidious unleashes a stream of lightning, which seems not to dissimilar to the "bolt of dark side energy" that the Sith Emperor hurtles at Revan. There is certainly something to be said about the different between proximity, but ultimately we have here is Sidious' lightning proving powerful enough to thrust Yoda's lightsaber from his grasp when he attempts to block the attack. Yoda who is confirmed by multiple canon sources to be the most powerful practitioner of the light side and most powerful Jedi in existence at that point, or rather more powerful than Revan.

 

Yoda is also a good example of what Sidious' lightning does to a Jedi who does not have Vaapad.

 

Combine that with the fact that Revan has struggled to deflect the impact of a lighting blast before, and the fact that a constant stream of energy eventually proved too powerful for the ultimate expression of Vaapad, and it is more than likely that if Revan was forced to block even a blast of Sidious' lightning, he would do so with great difficulty, and his lightsaber may well be wrenched from his grasp as Yoda's was.

 

This gives Sidious a massive advantage, because before Revan can even engage him its highly possible that he may be overwhelmed before he gets close, or rather thrown of guard if Sidious chooses to chain such an attack into his lightsaber sequence, which would certainly leave him open to a fatal blow.

 

==================================================

 

Now lets look at deflecting lightning in terms of tutaminis, or rather with one's hands. As you pointed out Revan was capable of blocking Nyriss' storm of dark side energy and redirecting it with ease. Yet Nyriss' power cannot be compared with that of Sidious, who instead is more comparable to the Sith Emperor. As the novel remarks:

Revan knew he was gathering his power to unleash a swirling storm of pure dark side energy, just as Nyriss had done...a dozen bolts of purple lightning arced from the Emperor toward him. Revan tried to draw them in and contain them, but the Emperor was infinitely more powerful than Darth Nyriss had ever been.

So instead of effortless batting them aside:

Revan's body was engulfed in agony as the electricity coursed through his body, his skin began to boil and blister, the flesh on his face melting and sticking to the super-heated metal of his mask as the Emperor poured more and more power into him.

But we aren't talking about the Emperor's power here, we are talking

 

There are two instances in which an individual has attempted to block Darth Sidious' lightning. The first was done by Yoda, the most powerful Jedi of his day. And while Yoda, unlike Revan, was able to contain the lightining, he was ultimately overwhelmed:

The end came with astonishing suddenness. The shadow could feel how much it cost the little green freak to bend back his lightnings into the cage of energy that enclosed them both; the creature had reached the limits of his strength.

And remember who we are concerning ourselves with here, Grand Master Yoda, the then most powerful expression of the light side of the Force. He wields immense power and almost certainly more power than Revan.

 

Now lets look at the next example, Galen Marek, for example of how a Force User weaker than Galen Marek would fare against the full force of Darth Sidious' lightning. Here's an excerpt:

Without hesitation, he stepped between Kota and the Emperor, taking the full brunt of the Sith lightning into his own body.

 

The pain was incredible, searing every nerve back to its individual cells, skewering each of them on white-hot needles. He had never before felt anything like this. He wanted to recoil from the source, to curl into a ball and let unconsciousness take the pain away, but somehow he stayed standing, seeing a world through a crackling blue light, and even took a step toward the Emperor.

 

...

 

Another staggering, painful step and the Emperor was within the Emperor's reach. With shaking fingers, he took the old man's bony shoulders in his hands and gripped them tight. The Sith lightning spread to engulf the two of them, fueled by both their desperations. The Emperor tipped back his head and howled in lascivious pain. Darkness threatened to envelop the apprentice's mind, but he clutched to consciousness with feverish will. He had to see this through. He had to.

 

A squadron of stormtroopers ran into the room, led by a limping Darth Vader. The raised their blasters to gun down the Rebels as they fled up the Rogue Shadow's ramp.

 

"No!" the apprentice cried, dropping his defenses one last time to strike one last time at the Imperials. Energy surged through him. He felt as though a star had blazed to life in his chest. Driven by concern for his friends rather than himself, he embraced the Force completely, utterly, and was rewarded with strength that made his efforts with the dark side look like those of a child. His nerves were on fire. Streamers of light radiated from his skin. His bones glowed like radiant lava.

 

He saw rather than felt the massive shock wave that consumed a large portion of what remained of the observation dome. A glowing bubble of fire tore the stormtroopers to shreds and engulfed Vader and the Emperor. Shrapnel filled the air like dust caught in the beam of the Death Star's powerful laser.

Now, Marek was able to catch Sidious' lightning, however clearly it proved too much for him, undergoing similar pain to which Revan felt, perhaps even greater. It was only through sheer will and the the power of Oneness, that Marek was capable of pushing the lightning back at Sidious and blasting him away, but this act killed him. Yet ultimately Sidious recovered quickly and seemed unharmed.

 

And lets not forget the sheer agony that Marek was in, a mere taste of that pain brought Revan to his knees:

The Jedi collapsed to the ground, burned but still alive...almost two weak to move.

The pain he'll experience here will be even worse, I doubt he can draw on the willpower that Marek did, and even if he could he'd be totally destroyed either way.

 

We should also consider just how powerful Marek is, Haden Blackman, the Lead Writer for the TFU project gives an interesting insight into this:

The Apprentice is the photo negative of Luke Skywalker. He's been raised by Darth Vader, and is what Luke would have become if he had joined his father. Vader's not a very nice daddy. This guy has been raised to be a Jedi. When the Jedi use the Force, they respect it and don't overuse it. The bad guys—the Sith—keep testing their limits. Vader discovered this person who had the potential to be the most powerful Force user ever. He's up there with the top tier. He's extremely powerful. Vader has trained him in such a way that he just kept pushing his limitations, seeing how far he could use the Force. So, where a normal Jedi might use the Force to trick his way past a few stormtroopers, the apprentice might use the Force to bring down an adjacent building on top of those stormtroopers. He's extremely confident in everything he does. He's been trained by Vader to be an assassin, an unstoppable force.

He is an incredibly powerful and gifted Force User with amazing potential, and his demonstrations are nothing other than extraordinary. He most impressive feat being when he redirected the flight path of a Star Destroyer:

"Concentrate on what's important, boy. That Star Destroyer is coming down fast. You'll never get clear in time. You need to pull it into the cannon."

 

The apprentice was temporarily lost for words when he realized what Kota was suggesting.

 

Kota wanted him to move the Star Destroyer using nothing but the Force.

 

"You're insane," he gasped. "It's massive!" "What is mass?" Kota said. "It's all in your mind, boy. You're a Jedi! Size means nothing to you!"

 

Kota's voice had changed. The surly, drunken slur was completely absent; in its place was the durasteel bark of the seasoned combat veteran the apprentice had first met.

 

"Can you hear me, boy? Reach out and grab that ship, or you'll die on this trash heap!"

 

The Star Destroyer was growing visibly larger and hung like a burning, triangular moon low in the sky of Raxus Prime.

 

You're a Jedi! Size means nothing to you!

 

He wasn't a Jedi but the message was the same. The Force didn't recognize big or small, heavy or light, hard or easy. The living flows of the galaxy encompassed all scales, from the very small to the extremely large. The Star Destroyer was part of it, and so was he. The Force bound them as surely as gravity. He could make its invisible muscles flex, if he dared.

 

Had his Master ever done anything like this Had the Emperor? Had any Sith or Jedi in the history of the galaxy?

 

He doubted anyone would ever know about his success or failure in the next few minutes. "Be quick about it, boy!"

 

Fast or slow were also irrelevant to the Force, but the apprentice took Kota's point. The sooner he started, the sooner it would be done.

 

Deactivating his lightsaber and attaching the hilt to his belt, he adopted the opening stance of the Soresu form, with his right arm and fingers outstretched, pointing at the Star Destroyer. His empty left hand he tucked in next to his heart. With his legs braced firmly in the trash, he reached as deep as he had ever reached into the Force, and then went farther still, feeling as though a mighty chasm had opened up under him and his mind and will plunged down into it. The chasm filled. His mind opened. The physical existence of the Star Destroyer slid painlessly inside.

 

Nearly sixteen hundred meters long and capable of carrying a crew in excess of thirty-seven thousand, the ship was a familiar design. Its engines and armament weren't fully installed, but its Class One hyperdrive would have taken it anywhere in the Empire at speed, there to deploy walkers, fighters, barges, and shuttle Armed with a host of turbolaser and ion cannons, plus no less than ten tractor beams, it could have blockaded an entire system on its own. The reinforced durasteel hull was solid enough to rip a gouge in Raxus Prime that might take centuries to fill. Scavenger droids would have a field day when it came down. Wherever it went down . . .

 

There is no wherever, he told himself. There is only where I tell it to.

 

Focus.

 

The tip of his right index finger and the Star Destroyer became as one in his mind. Every nut and bolt and plate and wire of the massive machine was contained within that tiny space. It wasn't hard to move an arm, a finger, a single human cell. He could direct one barely without thinking, so why not the other, too? Instinct was clearer on that point than the workings of his mind. Ignoring perspective, the two were about the same size in his field of vision.

 

Except the Star Destroyer was growing larger with each passing second, and waves of TIE fighters and TIE bombers were pouring forth from its brand-new hangar decks. Laserfire cut huge super-hot channels through the atmosphere ahead of them.

 

The apprentice ignored it all. While the illusion held, he moved his hand a very slight distance to his right. The sensation of containing a vast, million-ton machine in the tip of one finger was deeply disorienting. He felt as though every muscle fiber, nerve, and bone groaned along with the metal seams and joints of the ship. What it felt, he felt, too, and even a small acceleration had a profound effect on such a large scale. It resisted with all the momentum it possessed. Hatches swang open; rivets popped; bulk heads twisted; pipes burst.

 

The Star Destroyer didn't appear to have moved much in the sky. It was still coming in low on the horizon, aiming to pass over him and strafe him from above. He shifted his hand a second time, but instead of changing its course he mistakenly gave it a slight tumble. He needed to apply the Force the right way for this to work, taking the growing forces of friction and the shifting of its center of gravity into account. A spinning Star Destroyer would do more damage than one burying itself nose-first into the cannon and its superstructure. Damage was good, when it came to destroying the Emperor's handiwork, but too much damage could destroy him and perhaps the Rogue Shadow as well under a deadly rain of molten shrapnel.

 

Bring it down in one piece, he told himself. Bring it down hard.

 

The ship growled and squealed in metal torment. He was getting the hang of it; he could see how its course was slowly shifting. As wide across as his outstretched hand now, it was hitting the atmosphere at a steeper angle than he had intended, burning bright red and already gouting a trail of black smoke and sparkling debris. He became aware of a sound communicated through his feet: a rumbling much deeper and more sustained than the pounding of the cannon, which had fallen silent after the firing of the third projectile. The Star Destroyer's incomplete frame was acting like a giant tube, and the atmosphere was resonating inside. His whole body sang with it.

 

More. The Star Destroyer was really picking up speed now. The thickening atmosphere had a slight braking effect, but nothing could prevent the inevitable. It was going to hit soon. A wild exodus of droids ran past him, fleeing the crash site. The TIE fighters it had launched raced ahead of the chaotic atmospheric waves it generated. He ignored them and concentrated on shifting ground zero as close to the cannon as he could.

 

Sparks danced in front of his eyes. The edges of his vision faded to black. Light and dark swirls spun around him, wraithlike. He felt momentarily faint and wondered if it was possible to dissolve into the Force. He was a speck caught in the updraft over a forest fire yet somehow he had the audacity to try to command the fire to do his will.

 

Who did he think he was?

 

A sudden panic almost made him lose control. The Star Destroyer, now a burning, shrieking meteor, filled his entire forward vision. The hull was peeling away in fiery, golden strips, each one weighing hundreds of tons, exposing the darker skeleton beneath. It looked like a death's-head, a ghastly mask not dissimilar to hi Master's, but one molten like lava. This could well be the end of everything, he thought distantly. Of him, of his plans, of his feelings for Juno, and of the boy called Galen who had lost a father a long time ago and whose grief had already been effectively erased

 

But his name had survived, and names had power. The apprentice clutched at it with desperation, needing to regain control of the Star Destroyer lest it tear itself apart and disperse the impact. He needed to find his focus again, to ignore the feeling of dissolution eating at the edges of his self, and to tip the balance of power back toward him.

 

The Star Destroyer's catastrophic reentry made the world shake. There was no time to try again. For Juno, then.

 

He gritted his teeth and snarled at the sky. The dead weight the Star Destroyer shifted one last time, changing its angle of descent just enough to hang together those last few hundred meters, but not enough to risk bouncing. Only seconds remained before it hit and it was still getting bigger. It was impossible that the sky could contain so much metal!

 

Abandoning his control over the ship, knowing there was nothing now that he could do to alter its course, the apprentice staggered backward, dazed. The Force fled from him, leaving him wrung out and drained. With a sound like the world ending, the Star Destroyer completed its first and final journey. It hit the cannon, exactly as it was supposed to, and the sky turned white. The ground buckled beneath the apprentice's feet. He pinwheeled, unable to find his balance, as a tsunami of junk and waste rose up ahead of him and blotted out the sun.

I am not confident that Revan is capable of this. I highly doubt he is more powerful. And if even in a state of Oneness Marek was unable to overcome the Emperor's power, without that advantage Revan stands little chance, and even with it he would still fail. The best Revan could hope for in such a situation would be a quick death.

 

==================================================

 

And then, finally, we have lightsaber ability. Darth Sidious was a Sith Swordsmaster, a master of all seven lightsaber forms and all known stances. We can on the other hand, only guess at what Revan was capable of. He may have mastered all seven forms, but evidently he did not bring it to the level that Darth Sidious did.

 

Because Sidious channeled all his immense energy into his saber style, he was incredibly fast and incredibly strong. And whereas Revan may have been able to outmaneuver some Imperial Guards, bolstered by the will of the Emperor or not they don't even begin to compare to Sidious' speed and strength. To provide examples:

Maul parried the blow and reversed, coming at Sidious from the opposite side. But Sidious had already vanished, leaving Maul to lunge at the empty air. As Maul lost his balance, his body fell against the cave's wall.

Sidious said from behind Maul, "You are that pathetic. You are weak. Not worthy of being a Sith Lord. I have misjudged you."

 

Maul's anger burned to rage. He spun fast and swung his lightsaber again, but again he failed to strike Sidious, who moved faster than he could follow.

 

Sidious raised his saber and flew at Maul, who parried desperately, his mechanical legs whirring as he sought to counter his former Master’s blows. Sidious’s sabers were a blur, a whirling cage of deadly plasma. Maul danced away from one blow, then reversed his movement to avoid another, and then there were too many to count, and then there were even more than that.

 

Maul’s saber spun out of his hand, bouncing away across the floor.

 

A fountain of amethyst energy burst from Mace Windu's fist. "Don't try to resist."

The song of his blade was echoed by green fire from the hands of Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, and Saesee Tiin. Kolar and Tiin closed on Palpatine, blocking the path to the door. Shadows dripped and oozed color, weaving and coiling up office walls slipping over chairs, spreading along the floor.

"Resist? How could I possibly resist?" Still seated at the desk Palpatine shook an empty fist helplessly, the perfect image of a tired, frightened old man. "This is murder, you Jedi traitors! How can I be any threat to you?"

He turned desperately to Saesee Tiin. "Master Tiin—you're the telepath. What am I thinking right now?" Tiin frowned and cocked his head. His blade dipped. A smear of red-flashing darkness hurtled from behind the desk. Saesee Tiin's head bounced when it hit the floor. Smoke curled from the neck, and from the twin stumps of the horns, severed just below the chin.

Kit Fisto gasped, "Saesee!"

The headless corpse, still standing, twisted as its knees buckled, and a thin sigh escaped from its trachea as it folded to the floor.

"It doesn't..." Agen Kolar swayed. His emerald blade shrank away, and the handgrip tumbled from his opening fingers. A small, neat hole in the middle of his forehead leaked smoke, showing light from the back of his head. "...hurt..." He pitched forward onto his face, and lay still.

 

The shadow he fought, that blur of speed—could that be Palpatine?

Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them—but he could feel them in the Force. The Force itself roiled and burst and crashed around them, boiling with power and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent. And it was darkening.

Furthermore after immediately entering a new clone body he easily overwhelmed Luke Skywalker (who had himself become extremely powerful) simply through overpowering strength, despite Luke being a master of Djem So.

 

Does Revan really have the strength of Luke Skywalker? I beg to differ. And has anyone Revan fasted ever moved even close to the speed of Sidious? No. There is no evidence to suggest that Revan will be able to keep up with Sidious' incredibly strong and incredibly fast swordplay which he himself is renowned for and has refined.

 

It is far more likely that Sidious will simply move to fast and strike to strongly, even Windu was caught of guard by his speed and even Luke Skywalker was taken out by his powerful strength. And that's without even considering Force Abilities, one blast of lightning and Revan could lose his lightsaber, and if he tries to catch it, Sidious will set him on fire.

 

Ultimately, I stand my assertion that in any engagement, Revan would be quickly defeated by Sidious. Who is just as, if not more, dominating and overwhelmingly powerful as the Sith Emperor who Revan fell easily at the hands of.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Beniboybling