Sith Emperor vs Darth Sidious

[Aximand]

Thats besides the point obviously it taken is toll im not arguing if revan is good or bad, his Morals were always between the light and dark, he had used an infinite army before ( star forge) , using it now for the wrong reasons even aiming at greater good isnt that suprising, credit that to his 300 years imprisoment is an easy way out, and not completely acurate.

However you were saying that revan didnt do a thing and it was the emperor play thing, obviously the facts states that isnt quite so. That was my point.

 

"Morals between light and dark" is an extremely polite way of putting genocide, I must say.

 

So what's next, Hitler was just misguided? Honestly, I don't get where you're going with this. Revan was insane after his imprisonment.

 

I'm not saying Revan never did anything, I'm just saying that most of what he did (ending the Jedi Civil War, killing Malak) was cleaning up his own mess. Revan disobeyed the council (who were proven right in the end). Revan went to war against the Mandalorians and was corrupted by the Dark Side. Revan went to Dromund Kaas where he became a puppet of Vitiate. Revan broke free of Vitiates mind control, I'll give him that, but then he went and decided "I'll just make my OWN Empire and conquer THAT Empire, that'll show him". He couldn't even return to the Light on his own willpower, he had to be mind wiped into it.

 

I don't hate Revan, I think he's a fairly interesting character for a rip-off of Anakin, but I don't think he's nearly as impressive as people try to make him out to be. But this is horribly off topic for this thread.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Aximand

[Spartanik]

"Morals between light and dark" is an extremely polite way of putting genocide, I must say.

 

So what's next, Hitler was just misguided? Honestly, I don't get where you're going with this. Revan was insane after his imprisonment.

 

I'm not saying Revan never did anything, I'm just saying that most of what he did (ending the Jedi Civil War, killing Malak) was cleaning up his own mess. Revan disobeyed the council (who were proven right in the end). Revan went to war against the Mandalorians and was corrupted by the Dark Side. Revan went to Dromund Kaas where he became a puppet of Vitiate. Revan broke free of Vitiates mind control, I'll give him that, but then he went and decided "I'll just make my OWN Empire and conquer THAT Empire, that'll show him". He couldn't even return to the Light on his own willpower, he had to be mind wiped into it.

 

I don't hate Revan, I think he's a fairly interesting character for a rip-off of Anakin, but I don't think he's nearly as impressive as people try to make him out to be. But this is horribly off topic for this thread.

betwenn light and dark... light and dark not grey. God why are you so suprised? have you seen what the jedi and sith are capable of? have you play swtor and see the stuff they do both sides? and you are suprised by revan morals? gosh he was a darth revan once.... hell In the movies they even exploded a planet. and sudenly revan is Insane crazy because he wants to comit genocide... lol star wars universe is full of extremists in all sides havin you notice it? and acording to the lore extinction did happen to the sith, in one way or the other, i wonder what happen at the end of this war.

 

Again none of that was my point.. you were making a picture that wasnt true and i show you that revan did had influence in the emperors mind, he temper his anger and his plans. For you to say he was a mere play thing during the 300 years is simply not true. but whataver. I dont understand the need you and other poeple have to Underline at any chance you get how bad Revan was but ok. he certainly wasnt "Bad".

Another think he isnt certainly a anakin rip off, there is nothing in there of anakins, or vader. Nothing. Kotor story is more star warsy yes, but plot? character? nope no vader at all. Unless you want to make every character with a light side dark side inner conflict a rip off anakin.

I also disagree completely about the mandalorian wars. The jedi have an obligation to the republic, they are their defensors, the republic was at war and they chose to do nothing if they had helped maybe Revan hadnt fell to the dark side for instance, they didnt so revan did what he had to do, and the coucil was practicaly extint in the process. So they were right about the sith empire in hiden, but they chose not to do a thing. You forget that the mandalorian invasion was a vanguard of the sith empire. If revan hadnt acted, how much of republic would have been left standing when the sith arrived? just a thought

Edited April 20, 2012 by Spartanik

[Rhyltran]

Thats besides the point obviously it taken is toll im not arguing if revan is good or bad, his Morals were always between the light and dark, he had used an infinite army before ( star forge) , using it now for the wrong reasons even aiming at greater good isnt that suprising, credit that to his 300 years imprisoment is an easy way out, and not completely acurate.

However you were saying that revan didnt do a thing and it was the emperor play thing, obviously the facts states that isnt quite so. That was my point.

 

In the quest Revan stated he kept him in check. Then he goes on to claim that he convinced the Emperor that peace was in his best interest. Revan wasn't keeping the Emperor back with his own power. He even stated pretty much that he had no idea what he was going up against when he fought Vitiate. Anyway this is an argument between Palpatine and the current Sith Emperor. Not Revan/Palpatine. Point is Vitiate IS more powerful than Revan and by stating that isn't knocking Revan at all.

 

As to Rayla, thank you for the warm welcome. Due to some family related issues I had to step away for a bit. Family comes first after all. Glad to be back though. I missed these forums and the game.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Revan is pretty much a rip off of Anakin, different story telling but the same in the basic concept.

 

Anakin- Jedi knight, general in a war leading victories, goes over to the darkside and becomes a slave/puppet of the emperor then goes back over to the lightside.

 

Revan- Jedi knight, general in a war leading victories, goes over to the darkside and becomes a slave/puppet of the emperor then goes back over to the lightside.

 

Pretty much it in a nutshell, with some differences thrown in. But the basic concept is still there.

 

Edit: Oh btw welcome back Rhyltran.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[grandmthethird]

Revan is pretty much a rip off of Anakin, different story telling but the same in the basic concept.

 

Anakin- Jedi knight, general in a war leading victories, goes over to the darkside and becomes a slave/puppet of the emperor then goes back over to the lightside.

 

Revan- Jedi knight, general in a war leading victories, goes over to the darkside and becomes a slave/puppet of the emperor then goes back over to the lightside.

 

Pretty much it in a nutshell, with some differences thrown in. But the basic concept is still there.

 

Edit: Oh btw welcome back Rhyltran.

 

the difference is when vader returns to the light his story ends he is dead. but revan has more adventures left in him upon returning to the light. there might be alot alike but they are not a mirror.

 

also anakin is child compared to revan

Edited April 20, 2012 by grandmthethird

[Wolfninjajedi]

the difference is when vader returns to the light his story ends he is dead. but revan has more adventures left in him upon returning to the light. there might be alot like but they are not a mirror.

 

also anakin is child compared to revan

 

Which is why I said the basic concept of the two is the same, never said they were exactly the same way.

[_Zorth_]

the difference is when vader returns to the light his story ends he is dead. but revan has more adventures left in him upon returning to the light. there might be alot alike but they are not a mirror.

 

Returns to light, Departs off to kill teh Emperor, Gets his butt handed to him, Is trapped in his own mind for 300 years with Meetra keeping him alive, then when he finally gets out he goes on about how he will commit genocide on 99% of the Imperial population and gets himself killed.

 

Yea, loooots of adventures there.

 

[CorruptedPath]

Returns to light, Departs off to kill teh Emperor, Gets his butt handed to him, Is trapped in his own mind for 300 years with Meetra keeping him alive, then when he finally gets out he goes on about how he will commit genocide on 99% of the Imperial population and gets himself killed.

 

Yea, loooots of adventures there.

 

 

if you think Revan died at The Foundry, no he didn't die.........yet.

 

Now for those that say Anakin was a child, how many of you know who is father is? I bet most of you don't

[Spartanik]

Revan is pretty much a rip off of Anakin, different story telling but the same in the basic concept.

 

Anakin- Jedi knight, general in a war leading victories, goes over to the darkside and becomes a slave/puppet of the emperor then goes back over to the lightside.

 

Revan- Jedi knight, general in a war leading victories, goes over to the darkside and becomes a slave/puppet of the emperor then goes back over to the lightside.

 

Pretty much it in a nutshell, with some differences thrown in. But the basic concept is still there.

 

Edit: Oh btw welcome back Rhyltran.

Ulic quel droma, exar kun and probably much others.. i mean just because the light side and dark side clash and this conflict exists currently in manny characters of star wars doesnt mean they are all copy paste of anakin.

So in your mind jedi faling to the dark side is automaticaly copy of anakin?

well i dont see things that way though.

Which is why I said the basic concept of the two is the same, never said they were exactly the same way.

Pretty much like manny other characters, in star wars and they are all diferent, and obviously diferent characters.

 

Between vitiate and Sidious well lore wise i guess is sidious allthough there is much more information about sidious then vitiate, and everything points out that Vitiatte had skils that sidious didnt had. LIke controling others, and possessing people that was infused with the emperors essence.

I might be wrong but i dont think sidious could do that.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Spartanik

[Ravenbrand]

New only trumps old when new conflicts with the old. What new material states Vitiate is the most powerful Sith in history? What out of character source makes this claim? If none then the old sources calling Sidious the most powerful still apply as there's no direct contradiction. We do know, however, that Sidious has made some pretty impressive displays in regards to his force powers. Especially the force wormhole. We also know that Vitiate uses relics to increase his power whereas Sidious does not.

 

Nothing is ever said that he does or does not use relics in that regard.. and it would be a mistake to think that Palpatine was not aware of or did not have possession of relics that could amplify his powers in the force. It's not like he's the type of character (especially evil) to say "well, my powers are impressive so I don't need to gain anymore power"...

 

Right.

[_Zorth_]

if you think Revan died at The Foundry, no he didn't die.........yet.

 

Did you know..

 

That in the beta of SWTOR, players could actually see Revan's HP go down to 0 then loot his corpse. But too many testers were complaining that giving Revan such a death was too harsh so BioWare changed it to the fancy explosion and "becoming one with the force" kinda thing.

 

So, I'd say he's pretty much dead.. But there is always a chance BW will bring him back as a force ghost.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Ulic quel droma, exar kun and probably much others.. i mean just because the light side and dark side clash and this conflict exists currently in manny characters of star wars doesnt mean they are all copy paste of anakin.

So in your mind jedi faling to the dark side is automaticaly copy of anakin?

well i dont see things that way though.

.

 

No I wasn't saying that every jedi who fell to the darkside is a copy of Anakin, but their character personality and structure were similar. They were both generals in a war, they both had issues with themselves or a group, they don't seem to be trusted by the jedi order aside from a few, they both fell to the darkside due to the manipulation of the emperor and then they come back to the light.

 

As I said the basic concept is there, just that how they two get to their end thats whats different about it.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Rayla_Felana]

Nothing is ever said that he does or does not use relics in that regard.. and it would be a mistake to think that Palpatine was not aware of or did not have possession of relics that could amplify his powers in the force. It's not like he's the type of character (especially evil) to say "well, my powers are impressive so I don't need to gain anymore power"...

 

Right.

 

That's just conjecture, stating 'just because we haven't seen him do X doesn't mean he didn't have Y.' doesn't work in a factual debate.

 

Oh and he had perfect belief in his powers, he repeatedly claimed that he was the most powerful ever, which is actually true until Luke.

[BrandonSM]

Welcome Back Rhyltran!

 

New only trumps old when new conflicts with the old. What new material states Vitiate is the most powerful Sith in history? What out of character source makes this claim? If none then the old sources calling Sidious the most powerful still apply as there's no direct contradiction. We do know, however, that Sidious has made some pretty impressive displays in regards to his force powers. Especially the force wormhole. We also know that Vitiate uses relics to increase his power whereas Sidious does not.

 

 

This. Also, (Not sure how many times I've stated it, but) for those of you who say, "Vitiate consumed a whole planet with strong Sith Lords on it".

 

He needed the Sith Lords to destroy the planet. They thought they were unlocking massive DS power, but Vitiate fooled them. They were helping him...

[Darth_Omega]

Actually I'm quite sure the Sith Emporer did not use relics. I think people keep saying he does because everyone thought he was Naga Sadow before his backstory was told in Revan. Also when he had the sith helping him in the ritual, they were not doing it willingly. He dominated their minds and forced them to. And about people thinking he's weak because he relies on using rituals to give him power, that's wrong. He created the ritual that gave him immortality and the ritual he was going to use in order to destroy the galaxy, and also one would need to have great power to perform such an amazing ritual in the first place.

 

One more thing.... The whole point of using the dark side is to gain power quickly, so there is nothing wrong with using rituals.

[Rhyltran]

Nothing is ever said that he does or does not use relics in that regard.. and it would be a mistake to think that Palpatine was not aware of or did not have possession of relics that could amplify his powers in the force. It's not like he's the type of character (especially evil) to say "well, my powers are impressive so I don't need to gain anymore power"...

 

Right.

 

It is said in multiple sources that Vitiate uses relics to amplify his powers. There is no source claiming the same for Sidious. Sidious doesn't need relics. He had mastered every dark side technique there is. There's no need to amplify his powers. He was already immortal and invincible in his own mind. Every dark side technique was mastered and there wasn't anyone else left that could seriously challenge him.

 

In fact he had so much power that it was destroying his body. If you're so powerful it's eating at you why on earth would you use relics to amplify it further? He was practically a physical manifestation of the dark side by the time of Dark Empire.

[DeutschGamer]

It is said in multiple sources that Vitiate uses relics to amplify his powers. There is no source claiming the same for Sidious. Sidious doesn't need relics. He had mastered every dark side technique there is. There's no need to amplify his powers. He was already immortal and invincible in his own mind. Every dark side technique was mastered and there wasn't anyone else left that could seriously challenge him.

 

In fact he had so much power that it was destroying his body. If you're so powerful it's eating at you why on earth would you use relics to amplify it further? He was practically a physical manifestation of the dark side by the time of Dark Empire.

 

From what I can tell, Vitiate is known as a scholar. I would say if he had pursued a different path he would not have used relics, but because of his chosen area of expertise, he became aware of relics and decided to use them.

[Rhyltran]

From what I can tell, Vitiate is known as a scholar. I would say if he had pursued a different path he would not have used relics, but because of his chosen area of expertise, he became aware of relics and decided to use them.

 

Yet even with relics he hasn't been able to accomplish what Palpatine has nor does he have the raw power. It took a ritual to destroy a planet. A ritual is something that doesn't happen instantly. If it did it wouldn't be a ritual. Sidious could release force storms in the form of wormholes that can annihilate entire starfleets. He can use them "on the fly" so to speak. Not to mention Luke even commented that while they weren't used for this purpose that they could very easily destroy planets.

 

Sidious was considered completely immortal. He couldn't die at all. Every death he'd simply return. It took another jedi's spirit to tangle with Sidious' spirit and force him to become one with the force. Aside from that sacrifice Sidious would live on for eternity. Vitiate is indeed powerful but Sidious is more so. Sidious is also a scholar, people forget that as well, he studied not only the dark side but the light side of the force. He studied both ancient Sith and Jedi teachings. He had the largest collection of Sith manuscripts in Sith history. Bane started the collection and every one of his successors from then on did the same. Sidious studied from all of these and mastered all the techniques therein.

[Beccah]

that ladt post about trinkets killed me, we all should know Emperor was by far the strongest, this is absolutely hands down no questions asked.. Sidious had nothing absolutely nothing on him.. Screw all the planet taking and Jedi killing, look at the Emps feats!!!!

[Rhyltran]

that ladt post about trinkets killed me, we all should know Emperor was by far the strongest, this is absolutely hands down no questions asked.. Sidious had nothing absolutely nothing on him.. Screw all the planet taking and Jedi killing, look at the Emps feats!!!!

 

I could throw the same thing back at you with Sidious. Ignore the Emperor and look at Sidious' feats. Not to mention feats don't always show power. You have to look at what the characters have displayed so far. The biggest feat the Emperor has is using a ritual, consuming other Sith in said ritual, and using all that power to destroy a planet. Something he couldn't do completely on his own. Something that required a ritual.

 

Then comparing it to Sidious. Able to release force wormholes capable of destroying planets. Didn't take a ritual to set it up for preparation. Didn't take anyone else other than him to pull it off.

 

Again, Vitiate is powerful but not the strongest.

 

Compare Vitiate's fight with Revan in the novel with what Sidious did in his fight against Luke Skywalker in Dark Empire. This shows clearly what both combatants can do in a fight. Sidious is more impressive.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Rhyltran

[Darth_Omega]

I believe this whole fight is pointless. Vitiate is very strong, and yet we still know nothing about him, meaning he could be alot more powerful then we are aware of. But if I've learned anything from reading all these threads, its that George Lucas would never let a sith become more powerful than his sith lord, Darth Sidious. So it is very possible that Vitiate will become incredibly powerful, but sadly Sidious will always be ahead of him.

[ProReo]

I find the Dark Empire novels ridiculous and thus did not read them (cmon, undoing ROTJ? Luke goes to Dark Side? Clone hopping Sidious? It's too much of a strech) , you have to accept even by looking at how he single handedly orchestrated a Jedi Purge and then creates his own Empire, you have to accept that he is the greatest Sith Lord ever.

 

Sith Emperor, with all the **** people are saying he's done, couldn't wipe out the Jedi, something so insignificant compared to the stuff he is capable of. He might have power, but he clearly didn't know how to utilize it. Sidious had both.

[undeadsithdread]

I find the Dark Empire novels ridiculous and thus did not read them (cmon, undoing ROTJ? Luke goes to Dark Side? Clone hopping Sidious? It's too much of a strech) , you have to accept even by looking at how he single handedly orchestrated a Jedi Purge and then creates his own Empire, you have to accept that he is the greatest Sith Lord ever.

 

Sith Emperor, with all the **** people are saying he's done, couldn't wipe out the Jedi, something so insignificant compared to the stuff he is capable of. He might have power, but he clearly didn't know how to utilize it. Sidious had both.

 

the first original ideal of ROTJ movie was luke did turn to dark side killed vader and took his place as emperor apprentice before lucas changed it for the kids.

 

so lucas rebought the ideal that luke turned in dark empire series and brought the emperor back to life.

 

the dark empire series was first original ideal for ROTJ movie.

Edited April 28, 2012 by undeadsithdread

[boriscg]

What is the point in comparing these 2? It is like comparing who controlled all of the Earth Hitler or the roman empire... For one it looks like we have only seen a snap shot of the Emperor and as for sideous it is like what many people have said the writers went dbz on him.

 

But lets look at the emperor he killed his father a sith lord as a kid, he tricked the entire dark council after the great hyperspace war and consumed them and a planet to become not only immortal but also gain all there knowledge and power. He was able to defeat malak and revan just by looking at them. In the old republic he unleashes what looks to be a force storm on the jedi knight and is it 3 masters defeating them. And then is stopped by the jedi knight. However was that the emperor because as servant 1 stated only servant 2 has seen the true emperor and came back different so maybe it was jusy a vessel??

 

As for sideous he used his cunning and tricked everyone to become supreme chancellor like the sith emperor though he tricked the entire dark council and numerous sith lords to become emperor. In his duel with mace with no force piwers he kinda did lose he was disarmed and on the floor how is that not beaten... As for his fight with yoda that was a stalemate.

 

So in fairness they were both very alike in character using deception and cunning to win. As for who would win... whoever the writer chooses :-D

 

BUT DID ANYONE CONSIDER SIDEOUS MAYBE A REINCARNATION OF THE SITH EMPEROR

 

P.s Revan stated he had mastered both light and dark side power and he was now balanced and had become something dofferent

[Rayla_Felana]

What is the point in comparing these 2? It is like comparing who controlled all of the Earth Hitler or the roman empire... For one it looks like we have only seen a snap shot of the Emperor and as for sideous it is like what many people have said the writers went dbz on him.

 

But lets look at the emperor he killed his father a sith lord as a kid, he tricked the entire dark council after the great hyperspace war and consumed them and a planet to become not only immortal but also gain all there knowledge and power. He was able to defeat malak and revan just by looking at them. In the old republic he unleashes what looks to be a force storm on the jedi knight and is it 3 masters defeating them. And then is stopped by the jedi knight. However was that the emperor because as servant 1 stated only servant 2 has seen the true emperor and came back different so maybe it was jusy a vessel??

 

As for sideous he used his cunning and tricked everyone to become supreme chancellor like the sith emperor though he tricked the entire dark council and numerous sith lords to become emperor. In his duel with mace with no force piwers he kinda did lose he was disarmed and on the floor how is that not beaten... As for his fight with yoda that was a stalemate.

 

So in fairness they were both very alike in character using deception and cunning to win. As for who would win... whoever the writer chooses :-D

 

BUT DID ANYONE CONSIDER SIDEOUS MAYBE A REINCARNATION OF THE SITH EMPEROR

 

P.s Revan stated he had mastered both light and dark side power and he was now balanced and had become something dofferent

 

Vitiate's scariest power is his mind control, he can dominate any mind he wishes, even the Hero of Tython's.

 

And no, Revan did not master both the Light and the Dark, if he had 'mastered' either one, he wouldn't have turned away from them.