va_wanderer Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 What annoyed me wasn't so much the railing on me on Ord Mantell, but the continued railing after Ord Mantell. I understand that he's sore about being demoted, but guess what? I'm the CO now, and that means you stop sniping at me and fall in instead of questioning my abilities as a leader. He's a bit gruff early on, but he really does take a shine to you once you prove yourself (ie, higher affection). Unlike a certain demolitions expert, who's already well into negative territory just from one frickin' mission. I want to punt that Weequay into the nearest sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliJoe Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Jorgan.He was b**ching and saying 'well duh? I was a LT when you met me?!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaigen Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 ...and he does exactly that after just like 1k affection. Did you never speak with him after getting your ship?Sure. After two or three conversations he grudgingly accepts your leadership and stops complaining. My point was that when you meet him on Ord Mantell he expects you to fall in, shut up, and follow orders. When positions are reversed, he's not willing to do the same. He expects you to prove yourself worthy of respect but didn't expect to prove the same to me when he was in charge. That shows that his "gruff" behavior and railing at you isn't just him being an officer, it's just him being a cloaca (so to speak), and reflects poorly on leadership abilities. I'll second what someone said about Dorne's attention to regulations and paperwork being a positive for having her as an XO. Her own character arc demonstrates how useful it is to have your t's crossed, your i's dotted, and the proper reports filed... ...And if that traitorous senator had been more difficult to unmask, I'm sure she could have provided the Senate with plenty of documentation establishing our service to the Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sotaudi Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Sure. After two or three conversations he grudgingly accepts your leadership and stops complaining. My point was that when you meet him on Ord Mantell he expects you to fall in, shut up, and follow orders. When positions are reversed, he's not willing to do the same. He expects you to prove yourself worthy of respect but didn't expect to prove the same to me when he was in charge. That shows that his "gruff" behavior and railing at you isn't just him being an officer, it's just him being a cloaca (so to speak), and reflects poorly on leadership abilities. I'll second what someone said about Dorne's attention to regulations and paperwork being a positive for having her as an XO. Her own character arc demonstrates how useful it is to have your t's crossed, your i's dotted, and the proper reports filed... ...And if that traitorous senator had been more difficult to unmask, I'm sure she could have provided the Senate with plenty of documentation establishing our service to the Republic. I agree with this totally. From the moment I reported to Jorgan, I treated him with the respect due his rank in my responses to him, and I followed orders to the letter. In return, he treated me with contempt. When he became my subordinate, he made it clear that, while he accepted it and would follow orders, he deserved to be in charge. While he followed orders, he felt it was perfectly alright to question my decisions as if his approval mattered. If I had done that to him on Ord, his head would have exploded. When I promoted Dorne, he did not care why, he responded with an attitude of entitlement. Being able to give orders does not make you a leader. He no leader. He was simply a bully who used his postion to demean his subordinates. While I did sympathize with the injustice of the blame being dumped on him, he lost his rank but was allowed to continue to serve and to do so in the most prestigious squad in the Republic military. What he lost was also not his choice. Dorne, on the other hand, chose to give up everything, leaving her family and home, to defect to the Republic because it was the right thing to do. Even so, she is constantly hounded by people treating her with undeserved suspicion. Yet, she continues to be open and to seek to do the right thing, involving me in any decisions that could possibly be questioned. People suggested Dorne is so uptight about regulations that she would put those above doing the right thing. I look at it a different way. Jorgan is following orders, orders he often disagrees with. Dorne, on the other hand, chose to defy Imperial orders and regulations because they were morally wrong, and defected to the Republic to be able to do the right thing. I struggled (as much as you can with a game decision, anyway) with not promoting Jorgan. But when forced to choose between someone whose commitment to what is right was so strong that she left family and home vs. someone who accepted a loss of rank, but made it clear that he deserves to be in charge and is just biding his time till he gets it back, there really was no other decision as far as I am concerned. I think, though, the thing that cemented the decision for me was when I got to the question of how Jorgan would be treating me if he, instead of me, had been given command of Havoc. He has warmed up to me through our adventures and such, but would he still be treating me with contempt and how would he treat new recruits to the squad if he were in command? Nothing I have seen suggests to me that he would be any different than he was on Ord if he was in charge, so Dorne go the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hythrel Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I was going to pick up Dorne, but when i was going to do so, u got the 3 options, Promote Jorgen, Promote Dorne, General Garza choose, and well tbh I was glad there was that option, just for the fun of tossing the coin and some slight randomness .. She picked up Jorgen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead_Ted Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) hm.. not really.. Jorgan never really cared about losing his rank, he only wanted revenge and he had absolutely no problem following your leadership as long as you make sure Tavus gets what he deserves. I think that proves he is man enough, because a lesser man would have turn down the offer and quit, whining about how he wouldn't go back to Havoc Squad if he can't be the leader anymore. Jorgan being a veteran had no problem being the subordinate of a new recruit, which is kind of a huge deal, that proves he got what it takes to get the job done, and not letting his Ego get in the way. He was only mean in the beginning when you're a new recruit, which you still had to prove you are worthy of being in the top elite squad... When things have turned and you ended up being his leader, he shows you the respect that you deserved, never once had he given an attitude that he's better than you in anyway, and never implied that he's the one whom should be the leader instead. (it may be your own guilty conscience since you took his job, but he definitely was on board with following your lead since day 1 of his demotion, he did made suggestions and voiced his opinions loudly, but IMO he never crossed the line.) He also was there to teach you the ropes early on in your career as the new leader just to make sure Havoc Squad will have a strong and capable leader, if you carry the attitude of "I'm the leader now, I don't have to listen to you.. blah blah blah" that just means you're still green:D I don't see where this negativity is coming from other than the beginning where he treated you like crap, things have changed so much since the beginning it would be dumb to hold grudge over such little things. Besides, the whole mean belittling attitude he had was just an act anyway, that's how new recruits are treated in the army to harden them up for battles. ( maybe a little over the top but that's the idea anyway) Also if you let General Garza pick for you (which is essentially letting the developers decide for you) she'll pick Jorgan, because obviously he is the right person for the job that was meant to be when the story was written. in short, Dornes is the better person, Jorgan is the better soldier/squad leader. Edited February 5, 2012 by Dead_Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banescissor Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I chose Jorgan because out of the two squad members he's the one I'd want heading Havoc Squad if my trooper were to die. Also, we go way back. Ord Mantell bros for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ounkeo Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Jorgan is a total ***. I respect that he is combat experienced and good at it, but he exhibits personality disorder when given any measure of power. As others have said, he's pretty grating when he's commanding you but once the roles are reversed, that guy was just outright condescending and came off as generally moody, emotionally unstable and angry. He is not someone you want in any position of power because, while he may be loyal, he will abuse his powers because he's the big shot. You keep him as a ground trooper because that's what he's good at. That personality is best utilised on the field just doing his duty as a soldier. Dorne is clearly more leadership material. Level headed, concise, efficient, knowledgable. Somehow, a musclebound meathead with a bad attitude does not feel like a good decision to make an XO. It's just the wrong set of qualifications. You need someone you can consult, not someone who is looking for more blood at any opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyshadow Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I took Jorgan because he was th e one better qualified for the position, and he got the shaft from command. I didn't take Dorne just because she is a woman, which is why most people do, I was actually thinking in terms of what I would have really done in that situation. as a Vanguard, with Bio... I tend to use Jorgan for most situations. I only use Dorne for boss fights. But Jorgan's DPS far outweighs Dorne's healing ability when I need to clear entire rooms and don't feel like spending 15 minutes killing everything. Both have their place in my arsenal, as does M4... but Jorgan has been an officer, and a squad leader, he was better suited. Dorne IS a great healer, the other day I went up against Sith Lord Lara Croft on Alderaan even level, and I don't think I ever dipped below 75% health... though he didn't use any Force powers I don't believe, and it took about 10 minutes to beat him (I almost ran into trouble because the Sith Commander that stands there respawned on top of me, fortunately I was almost finished the battle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoobooMagoo Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I chose Dorne. I am going pure lightside. Jorgan and Dorne both respond well to lightside, but Dorne gets more points so I figured she is more lightside. That and I thought a combat medic would make a better XO for a lightsider. Plus, I'm a healer, so Dorne and I are like our own little MASH unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evelgest Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I went with Jorgan. I take Dorne wherever I go, so I'd want the XO to stay back and take care of things while I'm out, much like Jorgan's role on Ord Mantell with Havoc. If we were to split off during a mission, I'd also want Jorgan to lead that squad. I also wanted the extra affection with Jorgan since he's roughly at 4000 while Dorne was already at 8000 at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMWylde Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 How to make Elara useful: Turn off Carbonized Stream. Even if it turns back on, turn it off. It's a channeled attack that she auto-attacks right afterwards (Thus breaking the channel 1.5 seconds in)... And then targets the next monster in the pull and starts channeling carbonized stream (and then auto-attacks that target) Edit: Reminds of the thing with Stargate and how badly they wanted O'Neal and Carter to join up but the Air Military adviser said "It would be a cold day in hell before that happens." I completely disagree with this. I've had her keep mobs frozen for most of a fight. And when she cryos the one I'm eating I get to blitz. Any time a mob isn't beating on me is a good time. Course I play a tank build. Ive used Dorne to solo even leveled heroic content with nothing but a little extra time spent on the bosses. I do turn off all of her DPS attacks. She still shoots once in a while though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeseblaster Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) I completely disagree with this. I've had her keep mobs frozen for most of a fight. And when she cryos the one I'm eating I get to blitz. Any time a mob isn't beating on me is a good time. Course I play a tank build. Ive used Dorne to solo even leveled heroic content with nothing but a little extra time spent on the bosses. I do turn off all of her DPS attacks. She still shoots once in a while though. I second the first part of that. Witrh Elara i'm darn near impossible to take down in PVE. And I've never shut any of her attacks off, I welcome the higher DPS and it's never affected her healing in a fight. Anybody know if the decision to promote has any affect later on? Or is this just one of those weird side stories that doesn't actually do anything? I promoted Jorgan basically becuase he's been in the Army longer and IMO got a raw deal on Ord Mantell.. Edited February 11, 2012 by Cheeseblaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iret Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Dorne : cause i wanted to get into her pants now shes my wife.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiELUDiD Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Jorgan cuase I cant stand that woman pointing out every rule I break which is often. The CO must hate me but hey I get the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eutoxis Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Jorgan. He got a raw deal, and this rectifies it. Jorgan believes he deserves the promotion for one very good reason: HE DOES. Hell, Garza owes him a lot more than that for the screwjob he got, but this is a start. Dorne is who I take with me to heal me, but then, I'm not a healer myself. Tanno Vik dies the first time I catch him committing an offense that will justify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyys Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I second the first part of that. Witrh Elara i'm darn near impossible to take down in PVE. And I've never shut any of her attacks off, I welcome the higher DPS and it's never affected her healing in a fight. Anybody know if the decision to promote has any affect later on? Or is this just one of those weird side stories that doesn't actually do anything? I promoted Jorgan basically becuase he's been in the Army longer and IMO got a raw deal on Ord Mantell.. It matters when you get to the Gauntlet. Generally whoever you promote to XO leads a group to the Gauntlet bridge, where they are injured. Afterwards they are unavailable for.quests for awhile. Supposedly, this isn't entirely true. Someone once told me he promoted Elara but Aric was still the one injured. No idea if this is true or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashu-ri Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I promoted Dorne. It made the most sense. Frankly Jorgan is a pain. He constantly undermined me in the field and doesn't respect the chain of command. He was also to obsessed with his own vendetta for his own good. Constantly wanting me to make poor decisions do to his own feeling in the Ex-Havoc squad case. He could not properly set aside his own feelings to properly weight and make a decision. He would have been a poor leader. Would have easily got my men killed or caused them to defect, think he would have learned his lesson, but no. It was further cemented that he didn't deserve the promotion, when he approached me after Dorne received hers. He challenged my leadership to my face and called me inept to see his skills. I saw all and his childishness only further lowered my opinion of him. If I find he has been giving Dorne a hard time, so help me he'll be off the squad. Dorne on the other hand was both a ranking and decorated imperial officer, and since joining republic she has becoming a decorated solider. Her text book knowledge of rules and regulations have been invaluable to me. Yet, while knowing all the rules she knows how and when to break them if a moral issue comes into play. (OOC She has been behind my character 100%, my character and her seem to think on the same wave length.) She seems like she take her leadership responsibilities seriously and not a gift she deserved, like some one would have. Edit: Though, I am against the rules involving Droids holding an officer position in the military. I might have had a hard decision if I had an option to promote M1-4X, though I would have regretted it as I got to know him, I found out that he might be a terrorist. First off - I get that feeling about 4x, too. I was 50 when I got his conversation about having a target picked out......gave me the willies. HOwever, I have to say I promoted Jorgan. Underneath it all, he was more on my wavelength of how I played my character. She understood the vendetta, and wanted it too. Also, his previous command experience came into play. One thing to note: I have a female character, so Jorgan was my only romance option. As by the book as Jorgan seemed at times, he was awfully eager to drop into fraternizing with his superior. I also have a Jedi Sage. She's only lvl 41, but she's gotten the affection of Lt. Iresso (her romance option) up high enough that he told her about his time on Ord Mantell, and his dislike of Jorgan. With the legacy system giving both my girls the same last name, I decided they were sisters, and that would make family visits awkward, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeSaberRattler Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I chose Dorne pretty quickly but I let Aric plead his case. I just find him a little to off putting and Dorne is by the book. I wanted an XO that would pull me back when I crossed the lines which is what a good XO is suppose to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheldras Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I asked both, then asked Garza. She took Aric, and i can agree, he makes a good 2nd Commander (after all he got screwed and already was Lt). And i need Elara with me anyway, so Aric can lead the Rest of the Squad, when i go with my Healing Lady. Edited February 13, 2012 by Kheldras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xezkaiel Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I love Elara. I think she is a perfect woman (pity its just a game XD) and amuses me to no end, but Aric got screwed royally on ord mantell and would be a great leader looking past his vengeful side. I didnt wanna be married to my XO either....that woulda been awkward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlacke Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) I promoted Jorgan, despite the fact that i like Elara much more, take her with me almost on regular basis and plan to romance her, Jorgan deserved the job more and is better suited for it. Edited February 28, 2012 by Vlacke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miaxi Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Pretty sure that you have to promote Aric if you want to romance him. So... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeLyte Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Pretty sure that you have to promote Aric if you want to romance him. So... actually you don't. that's all based on your affection rating with him. You can have high enough affection, and if you started flirting with him, it won't matter if you promote him or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sotaudi Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) It matters when you get to the Gauntlet. Generally whoever you promote to XO leads a group to the Gauntlet bridge, where they are injured. Afterwards they are unavailable for.quests for awhile. Supposedly, this isn't entirely true. Someone once told me he promoted Elara but Aric was still the one injured. No idea if this is true or not. It is not true. I promoted Elara, yet in the Gauntlet Mission, it was Jorgan who got injured. There are choices you make during the mission that determines who goes to the bridge, and that is what ends up ultimately determining who gets injured.. Edited February 28, 2012 by Sotaudi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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