Community Blog Post Discussion: New Year’s PvP Update

[Zeami]

Finally some progress.

 

It's nice to know we're being heard!

 

Finally..... really. Dumb. the game came out like 14 days ago

[MorgonKara]

The Republic usually does pretty good when they do show up in Warzones on my server, but it seems like 9 times out of 10 it's Empire vs Empire Huttball.

 

You can't really blame players for rolling Empire because they made their classes too damn cool.

[Lebazz]

And what about faction imbalance in Ilum?

 

How are you supposed to kill the other faction, if they're outnumbering you by 2 to 1.

 

Change server, they cant exactly fix that so stop trying to find problems.

[Zeige]

as long as the modern MMO generation care more about gear than fun open world PVP, there is nothing that pvp design or mechanics can do.

 

illum is a great battlefield if people just decide to fight each other, who cares if you dont get super epix for a kill? it is the battle that makes it fun.

 

 

I agree with you completely!

 

Why do people need rewards to fight each other in an MMO? The fight itself is the reward.

[MorgonKara]

If I had to pick any one ability that seems overpowered in PvP I would have to say Overload/Force Wave. I have always thought that was kind of OP. An area knockback/knockdown that does damage and is on a relatively short cooldown? Oh and I've lost count of how many times in PvE that has caused NPCs to aggro a second group because they got knocked back into into them by an overzealous Inquisitor. I could see having an area knockdown with a smaller knockback. Edited January 5, 2012 by MorgonKara

[Grimhawk]

Cool now maybe the scrubs will have to learn how to play against people as geared as they are instead of harvesting lowbies...

[Paelonic]

Thank you guys.. For listening!

[Wheldrake]

I am at a total loss as to why segregating 50's out of PVP will help any. You will still have lvl 49's who will essentially do the same thing that the 50's can do.

 

This just segments the PVP population even more and hurts a group of people that already has less to do since they are at max level. We are still in the starting stages of SWTOR and there is not alot of good endgame content to support this. Most people are leveling and then PVP'ing because they have little else to do.

 

Now I have long queue waits to look forward to when I hit level 50.

 

Once the majority are at 50 then the new people will feel the same shock of long queues and no one to fight with.

 

perhaps they are implementing cross server PVP. This would help the situation, and possibly alleviate level 50's having nothing to do due to lack of end game content. All the 50's I know either PVP, or level up new toons as they have nothing to do unless they are in a guild that is large and organized enough to run what few Operations. that are out there.

 

I could see how 50's in full raid gear can pose a serious problem in a PVP match. I have been up against groups that were heavily geared and highly organized and won. Most times we would lose but we were able to win with team work and cooperation which seems to be extremely lacking in our PVP warzones. Everyone wants to run around and shoot each other like they are playing quake or something, no one wants to defend, or do recon, or do anything that doesnt result in DPS, Heals , or Kills.

 

I have no problem with removing 50's from the mix. Whatever bracket you have the top tier is always going to rule it. It was the same with wow where level 19 twinked rogues would one or two shot everyone which I didnt find to be very fair either.

 

Please do this in a way that doesnt make the people who actually paid attention to leveling their characters suffer any more than they already are.

[MaximusNem]

This will not fix the pvp in this game. There are too many Imperials. Please create a world where its guild vs guild so faction means nothing. If there not in your guild you can kill them. Also have a point to killing other people. giving more valor is crap. I want something to fight for. Put in bases on this world so guilds fight for them and get perks and they have to defend it to keep those perks. I'm guessing its too late to put this in now so your going to loose a **** load of people because you don't know how to implement good pvp mechanics. It floors me how long you have been working on this game and this is what we get for pvpers. Might as well take out pvp altogether because right now its all ****.

[MaximusNem]

I am at a total loss as to why segregating 50's out of PVP will help any. You will still have lvl 49's who will essentially do the same thing that the 50's can do.

 

This just segments the PVP population even more and hurts a group of people that already has less to do since they are at max level. We are still in the starting stages of SWTOR and there is not alot of good endgame content to support this. Most people are leveling and then PVP'ing because they have little else to do.

 

Now I have long queue waits to look forward to when I hit level 50.

 

Once the majority are at 50 then the new people will feel the same shock of long queues and no one to fight with.

 

perhaps they are implementing cross server PVP. This would help the situation, and possibly alleviate level 50's having nothing to do due to lack of end game content. All the 50's I know either PVP, or level up new toons as they have nothing to do unless they are in a guild that is large and organized enough to run what few Operations. that are out there.

 

I could see how 50's in full raid gear can pose a serious problem in a PVP match. I have been up against groups that were heavily geared and highly organized and won. Most times we would lose but we were able to win with team work and cooperation which seems to be extremely lacking in our PVP warzones. Everyone wants to run around and shoot each other like they are playing quake or something, no one wants to defend, or do recon, or do anything that doesnt result in DPS, Heals , or Kills.

 

I have no problem with removing 50's from the mix. Whatever bracket you have the top tier is always going to rule it. It was the same with wow where level 19 twinked rogues would one or two shot everyone which I didnt find to be very fair either.

 

Please do this in a way that doesnt make the people who actually paid attention to leveling their characters suffer any more than they already are.

 

 

The reason people run around and kill everyone because doing the defending gives you nothing in return. You get more by running around and killing people. Its not rocket science.

[Zorvan]

Cool, they'll be adding even more bugs on top of the ones they can't be bothered to fix.

 

Cause for celebration! YAY!!

[proplayr]

Server is 90% Imperial Faction, Please add betrayal quests for level 50s.

 

I 2nd this. Betrayal quest would be awesome because In one of my repub stories I fight a Sith Warrior and in the story it asks me to turn to the light side and he says ok. So if that guy does it why can't Imp people switch over. Cause seriously on our server when we play the imps in huttball they dominate becasue when they que they end up playing against imps all the time so they own in it.

[JSusie]

additionally, daily and weekly missions will require player kills to complete

 

Ok at any given time, there are 20+ imperials on Ilum, and the max Republic I've ever seen is 5. And I'm positive my server is not alone in this. It's an absolutely terrible idea. I agree the place needs reworked and I admit I don't have any good idea for it, but the solution you have now is bad.

 

It will either turn into a lynchmob type mentality, with the larger faction forming a giant group and hunting down the minority faction, or it will be the same thing as it is now, except people will be trading kills instead of capture points.

[LiveVulcano]

I am at a total loss as to why segregating 50's out of PVP will help any. You will still have lvl 49's who will essentially do the same thing that the 50's can do.

 

[...]

 

It was the same with wow where level 19 twinked rogues would one or two shot everyone which I didnt find to be very fair either.

 

The primary problem with higher levels in the warzones now is the expertise rating. Yes, talents and new abilities including higher ranks can be more powerful. But allowing expertise geared players to face off against non expertise geared players is a huge imbalance.

 

The gearing difference in wow between the twink 19 and the new level 15 doesn't exist in swtor. The gearing scales up according to your gear rating relative to your level. A level 20 player in full "pvp" vendor gear has far better stats than a level 30 wearing the same gear. (And more stats than a level 50 wearing level 40 gear.)

 

This is one of the easiest solutions bioware can implement with this current system. They could make expertise gear for all levels that will scale up to level 50 values, but there is still the problem of abilities, ranks, and talents. They could add more brackets, that would increase queue times with varying results depending on the server. Brackets would fix many problems, but they have to balance "unknown" queues with "unknown" player behavior. They could use the gw2 system, but that would require a complete pvp system rework.

 

Honestly this is the best bang for their (and my) money/time. Thanks bioware, good to see my subscription going to content I care about. I hate the auto-centering camera, but that will come in time. Once the system is a little more optimized it will be fine. GW2 will crush these old mmo pvp systems anyways.

[HectorCasan]

I can't help but feel like "optimization" in regards to guard, means that it's getting nerfed.

 

Unless it's terribly underpowered at high levels, though I can't imagine that being the case. I'm enjoying the support for tanks in PvP, and hope to see this support continued!

 

Not sure about the removal of companions from Ilum, I figured companions had a perfect place in open world PvP, why not leave them? Everyone has access to one, so it's still a balanced fight.

 

One of the most frustrating parts of open world PvP in an MMO is the rock-paper-scissors nature of class balance. With a companion to balance out our weaknesses, it levels the playing field a bit, and makes fights more interesting, and more importantly, more skill based.

 

This has been my experience with open world PvP anyway.

 

That said, bring on the warzone selection!

 

 

what i got from that is something perhaps like guard targeting and stuff ?, and how we need to deactivate first then reactivate on another player instead of just switching etc.

 

Thats what optimization means for me, in any case im having a blast as a pvp tank, i always wanted to fullfill that role, i doubt bioware is going to screw us.

[HectorCasan]

I am at a total loss as to why segregating 50's out of PVP will help any. You will still have lvl 49's who will essentially do the same thing that the 50's can do.

 

This just segments the PVP population even more and hurts a group of people that already has less to do since they are at max level. We are still in the starting stages of SWTOR and there is not alot of good endgame content to support this. Most people are leveling and then PVP'ing because they have little else to do.

 

Now I have long queue waits to look forward to when I hit level 50.

 

Once the majority are at 50 then the new people will feel the same shock of long queues and no one to fight with.

 

perhaps they are implementing cross server PVP. This would help the situation, and possibly alleviate level 50's having nothing to do due to lack of end game content. All the 50's I know either PVP, or level up new toons as they have nothing to do unless they are in a guild that is large and organized enough to run what few Operations. that are out there.

 

I could see how 50's in full raid gear can pose a serious problem in a PVP match. I have been up against groups that were heavily geared and highly organized and won. Most times we would lose but we were able to win with team work and cooperation which seems to be extremely lacking in our PVP warzones. Everyone wants to run around and shoot each other like they are playing quake or something, no one wants to defend, or do recon, or do anything that doesnt result in DPS, Heals , or Kills.

 

I have no problem with removing 50's from the mix. Whatever bracket you have the top tier is always going to rule it. It was the same with wow where level 19 twinked rogues would one or two shot everyone which I didnt find to be very fair either.

 

Please do this in a way that doesnt make the people who actually paid attention to leveling their characters suffer any more than they already are.

 

 

Level 49s cant compete against level 50, hell recently geared level 50 cant compete with epicced out level 50s, they are doing this so level 50 are in their own league.

[Olarid]

Cool any chance on fixing raids too? I mean dieing to a speeder is cool and all but I guess I enjoy the easy peasyness of getting pvp gear also.

[Xacc]

So you do not like being told "hey go to Ilium, pick on people your own level". I am going to assume you enjoy being a stealth Ganker just picking on lowbies. If you were 30 would you go to Ilium to pvp? But you want to spontaneously decide to pick on lowbies and wish to get rewarded.

 

Go spontaneously decide to pvp against another level 50. He is spontaneously deciding to wait for you. Lets call it a spontaneous challenge and you will get spontaneously rewarded.

 

I would think most people who understand what open world PvP should be could care less about rewards, as long as it's fun. I'm not saying Ilum won't be fun, just for the fact that fighting other people of equal level can be a fun challenge in itself -- but I can get that in a queued warzone just as easy. The fact that they're calling it legitimate "open world" PvP when it's just a glorified warzone for level 50's is pretty misleading.

 

Also, I play a jugg, so stealth ganking is impossible. Lowbies getting ganked is part of any MMO PvP experience. Nobody said it was fair -- that's what a PvE server is for. Also, I wouldn't even think going to look for lowbies, because the worlds are so big and often barren, that you could spend 30 minutes traveling to find a gank, but never get a chance. But Ilum is definitely NOT spontaneous. The best open world PvP is due to thought out game design and world layout. I can count on one hand the amount of PvP encounters I had on the way to 50 while questing.

 

Ilum is a "PvP planet" designed for PvP. That's it's purpose. There may be excitement in the fights themselves, but there isn't any excitement in how you encounter the fights...because you already know people are going to compete for set objectives.

 

Again, anyone who truly understands and enjoys a real open world PvP encounter knows what one is, and they know that Ilum is not currently that.

[Geronimosan]

I'm not excited about the PvP prospects in SWTOR at all, current or future. I know I'm going to sound like Debbie Downer here, but...

 

I've never been a big fan of instanced PvP (warzones/battlegrounds) ever since WoW first introduced it, and have always considered it a lazy solution to problems encountered while trying to create good MMO world PvP design. There is such a huge emphasis in MMOs to create an expanded and non-linear world, but then all the PvP gets stuffed into little FPS-style multiplayer maps? Never made sense to me from an MMO PvPer's perspective. So, any MMO that slaps instanced PvP into their game and calls it good immediately tells me they put little to no thought into the PvP side of their game.

 

Worse, BioWare's implementation of instanced PvP at launch (no level brackets, mixing factions, gimmicky football/basketball/Unreal Tournament-style warzone, no team queueing, no ability to queue for specific warzones, etc., etc.), and "world" PvP really only existing on Ilum (correct me if I'm wrong, but this zone exists purely for PvP, right? so, this zone is nothing more than a slightly larger instanced PvP warzone), and the fact that, in essence, there is no real difference between PvP and PvE servers, tells me that the implementation of PvP into SWTOR was an afterthought. And instead of BioWare learning from the PvP design mistakes made by prior MMO companies, they are simply re-using those same faulty PvP design models, but not even doing it well.

 

In my opinion, the future of SWTOR PvP doesn't look good.

 

If you are a true MMO PvPer and enjoy getting out in the MMO game's world where PvP and PvE can be experienced together, then SWTOR will not be for you. If you love playing rank/stats based FPS games, grinding the same 4 maps repeatedly for years on end, and want a sprinkle of Star Wars RPG thrown in, then SWTOR will be your ideal MMO.

[Xacc]

I'm not excited about the PvP prospects in SWTOR at all, current or future. I know I'm going to sound like Debbie Downer here, but...

 

I've never been a big fan of instanced PvP (warzones/battlegrounds) ever since WoW first introduced it, and have always considered it a lazy solution to problems encountered while trying to create good MMO world PvP design. There is such a huge emphasis in MMOs to create an expanded and non-linear world, but then all the PvP gets stuffed into little FPS-style multiplayer maps? Never made sense to me from an MMO PvPer's perspective. So, any MMO that slaps instanced PvP into their game and calls it good immediately tells me they put little to no thought into the PvP side of their game.

 

Worse, BioWare's implementation of instanced PvP at launch (no level brackets, mixing factions, gimmicky football/basketball/Unreal Tournament-style warzone, no team queueing, no ability to queue for specific warzones, etc., etc.), and "world" PvP really only existing on Ilum (correct me if I'm wrong, but this zone exists purely for PvP, right? so, this zone is nothing more than a slightly larger instanced PvP warzone), and the fact that, in essence, there is no real difference between PvP and PvE servers, tells me that the implementation of PvP into SWTOR was an afterthought. And instead of BioWare learning from the PvP design mistakes made by prior MMO companies, they are simply re-using those same faulty PvP design models, but not even doing it well.

 

In my opinion, the future of SWTOR PvP doesn't look good.

 

If you are a true MMO PvPer and enjoy getting out in the MMO game's world where PvP and PvE can be experienced together, then SWTOR will not be for you. If you love playing rank/stats based FPS games, grinding the same 4 maps repeatedly for years on end, and want a sprinkle of Star Wars RPG thrown in, then SWTOR will be your ideal MMO.

 

This pretty much sums it up.

[proplayr]

This is garbage. Ilum should not be the only place for world PvP. Why couldn't you let PvP servers be PvP servers? Raid boss guards everywhere even at the smallest quest hubs, funneling opposing factions away from each other throughout the leveling process. World PvP on PvP servers is something that should start right out the gate, not be thoroughly discouraged throughout the game and ultimately limited to some 'end-game' zone where your incentive for PvP basically comes down to a daily quest like in Rift. There's a reason why the bulk of the PvP population left Rift within the first six months, and you're piggy-backing off of the same mentality.

 

This game is more and more being touted as nothing more than a single-player/co-op game, and all you've done with your terrible attempt at world PvP implementation and your destruction of the concept of a PvP server is push players toward the eager anticipation of Guild Wars 2. Good job on that.

 

If they were to do that they would need to ensure that lvl 1-20 were some what protected because Age of Conan tried that pvp tactic you speak of, of letting pvp start right out of the gate and failed horrible. People would lvl to 10 then just sit in group outside the zone and kill lowbies and the game as you can see went F2P and isn't doing so hot anymore.

[csward]

Woo-Hoo thank you Gabe!

 

Now I hope another team is workingn on the UI or they are going to allow custom UI mods, because it need a lot more custimazation.

 

One thing I would like to see is an auto pass to random player within x feet in Hutball. You can get locked down so fast and it is very hard to aim the hutball fast enough. Still I love Hutball and I want to see more PvP Warzones with traps. I love the concept.

 

Oh. also i am having a lot of fun with PvP now. I am very glad to see a new warzone coming and I would love to have at least 6-10 maps to choose from over the next few months!

[GemmaHuit]

The reason people run around and kill everyone because doing the defending gives you nothing in return. You get more by running around and killing people. Its not rocket science.

 

i agree with this, in a voidstar the other day I ran through the enemy base planting 2 bombs and accessing 2 terminals and got squat for it.. but they are working on that supposedly. But at the same time you can do both, run around and kill but help the objective overall. IMO the true heroes of the warzones are often only known to those doing what needs to be done and getting no credit, I have had epic battles defending a door on voidstar 5 v 1 while my team is oblivious.. how would the devs write code to recognize when someone is doing something like that? good luck to them. Another one of my favorite tactics in hutt ball, I find the opposing teams best ball runner or healer and hunt them down relentlessly, pester them snare them, stun them knock them off stuff whatever I can to keep them away from the action. granted it looks like im running around like a noob, but in reality I am whats keeping them from scoring..

 

 

as for the people saying there is no open world pvp at lower lvls, seriously? I have been getting in great battles on nar shaddaa from mid 20s to early 30s, killed 4 separate reps, then 2 of them teamed up and i killed them, then all 4 i had killed teamed up and came to get me, was at least 45 mins of fast paced open world pvp, granted you have to kind of search out the opposing faction as your class quest doesn't seem to really take you right to them, IMO there needs to be more class quest / general quests pointing you into the direction of opposing faction, we are at war with each other, separating us is against the big picture, both for PVP and a RP sense is it not?

[Zorvan]

If they were to do that they would need to ensure that lvl 1-20 were some what protected because Age of Conan tried that pvp tactic you speak of, of letting pvp start right out of the gate and failed horrible. People would lvl to 10 then just sit in group outside the zone and kill lowbies and the game as you can see went F2P and isn't doing so hot anymore.

 

What killed PvP in AoC was having to click rocks all day to get PvP XP.

 

Bori killed AoC PvP.

[GemmaHuit]

 

If you are a true MMO PvPer and enjoy getting out in the MMO game's world where PvP and PvE can be experienced together, then SWTOR will not be for you. If you love playing rank/stats based FPS games, grinding the same 4 maps repeatedly for years on end, and want a sprinkle of Star Wars RPG thrown in, then SWTOR will be your ideal MMO.

 

I am a true MMO PvPer and i enjoy getting out in the MMO game's world where PvP and PvE can be experienced together and I have been enjoying the #$% out of this game, so you cant make a definitive statement like this because pvp action isnt flocking to you... go out and find the opposing factions base on the planet your on.. OMG PVP in open world..I have found plenty of world pvp with no problems at all lvl ranges, the warzones are a way to get pvp action without having to run all over the galaxy to find someone to kill, sometimes thats nice

 

Im pretty sure they will be releasing tons of war zones, planets, races, flashpoints etc in the future.