TheEgap Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Go play a different game then - this isn't some FPS - this is a mmorpg, meaning there are more people than just your guild. If you want pre-mades do the four person groups, and stop QQing as you like to say. I was just supporting the OP. Besides, isnt the point of being in a guild to be able to play and interact with each other. Sure 4 people groups is interacting. But the warzones are only 8v8, 8 people a group is not a stretch at all. And considering the fact that we can make large ops groups, it does not make sense that we cannot make a large enough group to have a full premade in a bf, which is, in fact, an ops group. Im not QQing. There are people that are completely against 8 man premades because they dont want to get rolled, thats QQ. And I realize this is an mmorpg, but dont all other mmorpgs have larger groups? Nice try though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GameTwine Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I have no doubt 8 man ques will be added along with ranked Premades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Foy Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I want to see 8-man premades be allowed. Even if they are restricted to only facing off against other 8-man premades. But to be fair, if your premade has no restrictions then you'll probably never, ever, lose until you face another premade... so it might be quite unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brimmer Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) I was just supporting the OP. Besides, isnt the point of being in a guild to be able to play and interact with each other. Sure 4 people groups is interacting. But the warzones are only 8v8, 8 people a group is not a stretch at all. And considering the fact that we can make large ops groups, it does not make sense that we cannot make a large enough group to have a full premade in a bf, which is, in fact, an ops group. Im not QQing. There are people that are completely against 8 man premades because they dont want to get rolled, thats QQ. And I realize this is an mmorpg, but dont all other mmorpgs have larger groups? Nice try though If you want what other mmorpgs have, then play those mmorpg. The only time premades are alright is when they have to queue against their own kind. That means no reinforcements - we don't want to join you - and no versing random pugs at all. Sadly when they add full group premades to MMORPGs they never think of what they are doing. Which means a lot of players will just stop signing up for PVP, since they will just face another group of 8 50's in PVP gear. This just leads to the forums posts about "nerf this" "nerf that" I can't kill the premade groups since they are too strong, so nerf the class that is most played of them. It's just a mess of people getting angry about loosing. If you so badly want to play with all your friends, why aren't you doing open world pvp. Go do your 80 vs 80 premades. Edited January 5, 2012 by Brimmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brimmer Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I want to see 8-man premades be allowed. Even if they are restricted to only facing off against other 8-man premades. But to be fair, if your premade has no restrictions then you'll probably never, ever, lose until you face another premade... so it might be quite unfair. See that's all most people want - There is no fun at all in being forced to play against or with (being a reinforcement) premade groups. It's just a boring waste of time. If I wanted to fight pre-made vs Pre-made I would be doing open world PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocdogg Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Patience, Grasshopper. They're adding rated warzones. They will have to allow full pre-mades for those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soazak Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Only if they are forced against other 8man pre mades. But I think demand for this would then deminsh over time as the poor players left. Wait for World PvP boosts and take your 'group' to Ilum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenolf Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I have no doubt 8 man ques will be added along with ranked Premades. This is what will happen. And the OP should be happy because they now get to play with HIS guys. .....but that isn't the real point. The real point is having 8 50s face roll pugs, thus accelerating their valor/commendation grind to maintain or reinforce their ability to face roll pugs. Gear/Level > Skill Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exothermix Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Wow, people really queue solo and expect anything less than getting owned? I want bigger group sizes for better open-world PvP / RvR, and it would also be much better for proper premades in warzones too. Premades versus pugs isn't so much of the problem yet (it will be once the good premades really establish themselves) it's the combination of that plus gear and level gap due to the untiered queues. this should at least be partially fixed soon - when the 50s have a seperate queue. Premades will always roll over pugs; a seperate queueing system for premades and pugs is hard, as, for example, what do you do with the people who queue as duo's? Stick them in the premade or pug? My definition of premade may be different to yours also; Premade: A group of players on voicecomms with a pre-made set up optimised for specific pvp/rvr combat, e.g. 1 tank 1 healer 2 dps. I don't consider 4 random grouped dps players to be a 'premade' as they are easily countered by a better class balance of solo queued people, and if not on voice comms, then unless they are all on same wavelength they are just another pug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheditor Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Wow, people really queue solo and expect anything less than getting owned? Well yes people do. I shouldn't HAVE TO go with a group just to be able to enjoy PvP. I think there should be a version of more organised groups vs other organise groups but a pre made of 8 level 50s all on a VoIP program vs anything less would be just stupid and invincible. Communication and co-ordination goes way above any individual skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knifewrench Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 OP: I want to be able to group with my friends and steamroll PUGs!BW: No. We're going to make you fight other full groups.OP: *** is this e-Sport BS!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 OP: I want to be able to group with my friends and steamroll PUGs! BW: No. We're going to make you fight other full groups. OP: *** is this e-Sport BS!? Why not make a separate queue that allows full pre-mades. Pre-made vs. Pre-made is entertaining, and it eliminates pug stomping. Yes queue times will get a little long for empire pre-mades on a lot of servers, but the games would be a lot of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcan Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I own a guild, actually. Competition is NOT, by nature, team based. There's no correlation. The concept of "Competition" can either be between one entity or multiple entities. Flawed statement is flawed. That said... yes, warzone's are team based in nature. However, allowing 8 man premades to roll PuG's just proves how godawful LOL you are at PvP. I pity your guild for being so bad. Really, it's not your fault though. They just need to pair premades against premades, problem solved. Then again, you'll probably hate it when you find out how bad you are on an even playing field... lawls... You OWN a guild huh? That must be good for you. Do you own your guildmates too? I would love to be in your guild; you seem to have a good grasp on what teamwork is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phycosis Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 OP: I want to be able to group with my friends and steamroll PUGs! BW: No. We're going to make you fight other full groups. OP: *** is this e-Sport BS!? It doesn't take 8 people to steamroll. We steamroll all the time with 4. Give me a few people that play their character good vs 8 people that have no clue. It's about skill. Not about the amount of people you have in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zandon Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 they have stated that there will be 8man v 8man ques in the future, I don't recall but it may be coming this month, as well as ranked WZ and a 50's bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithorious Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The point of an MMO is to be able to play with other people. The point of a guild is to be able to play with other people you actually WANT to play with. The Guild Creation system is wonderful, so far. We can gather together everyone, give them ranks and such and speak to them in guild chat... but if we want to play with them, we have to leave people out. I have a guild of 75 people, who would love to PvP together in battlegrounds... but its very very difficult to do so. Yes, we can make 4 man groups for the battlegrounds... but then we get stuck with 4 level 14 noobs going against a full group of 50's... needless to say, the 'bolster' system leaves alot to be desired. Now, we were able to get a full group of 8 into a battleground a few times, usually late at night, queing at the same exact time and adding a whole lot of luck... AND ITS BEEN FANTASTIC!!! I can understand why we have 4 man groups for questing... but we NEED to have 8 man groups for pvp! I want to play with MY GUYS!! I'm sure others have posted about this before and I'm sorry if its repetitive, but I couldn't find a particular post to reply to. Do you agree with this assesment? 8-man premades are fine, as long as they ONLY play other 8-man premades. That fulfills the "social" and "competitive" aspects you claim to be looking for. I find it a lot easier to believe, however, that you just want to steamroll the randomly grouped players. And from a business perspective, that's not a good idea. Because then only 50% of the players in the WZ are having fun. The other half hate their lives. If you want to do premades, you should be facing premades. As somebody with a PvP guild, I prefer this option: it's a challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovinity Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I find it a lot easier to believe, however, that you just want to steamroll the randomly grouped players. Yeah, reminds me of the low level twinking community in WoW. They swore up and down they wanted "real competition" and that they didn't twink out that level 19 rogue just to stomp newbies. So Blizzard made twink-only brackets, and promptly afterwards the twinking mysteriously died. Imagine that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthdoll Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 If the premade of 8 went against another premade of 8 then it would be good. 8 vs random people is unfair8 vs 4 premade is unfair. 8 vs 8 premade = fair4 vs 4 premade = fair random vs random = fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJFISH Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 OP: I want to be able to group with my friends and steamroll PUGs! BW: No. We're going to make you fight other full groups. OP: *** is this e-Sport BS!? You should learn how to read before commenting. The OP never said he wanted to steamroll anyone, everyone else is saying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Team v. Team is in the works: http://www.swtor.com/blog/new-year%E2%80%99s-pvp-update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunahokalugi Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 ^signed^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fumouffu Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 8v8 should solve this easily!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fnords Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 You should learn how to read before commenting. The OP never said he wanted to steamroll anyone, everyone else is saying that. Not one of these people that are so much in favor of 8 man pre-made have come out and said: "YES! Let us fight other 8man pre-made and we'll be so happy!" Why do you think that is? It's because they are not looking for a fair fight, they are not looking only to play with friends, they want epics, they want to own, they want higher valor rank, and they want it now. Everyone that has played any BG/WZ MMO and been in or faced pre-mades knows what it's all about, EASY MATCHES, nothing else. TBH this thread was over when the first person said "Fine just let them face other pre-mades" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaas_Quinn Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) No idea *** planet your on. That's exactly what pre-mades are meant to do. Is steam roll the other side. So please stop with the propaganda about playing with friends stuff. Where do you come up with 'propaganda'? Get your head out of your nethers, and use it. The entire point of PvP team-against-team. Conceptually, every *WAR*zone is about a team of individuals coming together to achieve a common goal. The 'propaganda' you refer to isn't propaganda at all. We're simply advocating a return to logical combat tactics. Is it 'fun' to be able to jump into a warzone at any time? Sure. But does it really make any sense? Anyone whose ever cracked the cover of a field training manual knows that your strength isn't just in numbers, it's in tactics. If one team decides to plan in advance, and forms a full group, they have the oppportunity to take their opponents by surprise. How is that taking advantage of the system? No, it's proper planning. Don't take offense to someone else's foresight--it makes you look like an idiot. What you're advocating is a combat system where 'everybody wins'. That's naive, in the extreme. Why should a few people carry the weight of everybody else? Why should a group of only four people have to carry the entire warzone so the other four can just screw around? What happens to the group of individuals who *did* have the foresight to plan properly for the Battleground/Warzone? Shouldn't *their* happiness be taken into account? It's a lot like a class where the teacher notifies everybody that they're going to be graded on a curve. If the people who do study are forced to accept a lower grade constantly because the rest of the class won't do the work, where's the incentive for those hard-working students to work hard, when they're just going to receive a failing grade anyways? Why should the feelings of the students who don't do *any* work carry any weight, let alone outweight the feelings of those who actually give a damn? Quit your whining, or go back to PvE so only your companions have to listen to it. Not one of these people that are so much in favor of 8 man pre-made have come out and said: "YES! Let us fight other 8man pre-made and we'll be so happy!" Why do you think that is? It's because they are not looking for a fair fight, they are not looking only to play with friends, they want epics, they want to own, they want higher valor rank, and they want it now. Everyone that has played any BG/WZ MMO and been in or faced pre-mades knows what it's all about, EASY MATCHES, nothing else. TBH this thread was over when the first person said "Fine just let them face other pre-mades" I, for one, would *LOVE* an 8-on-8 match. Why wouldn't I? It would be just as fun to me to demolish a coordinated team of 2-8 opposing players as it would to demolish a team of unorganized individuals who choose spend their time running around like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off. So this is where your argument falls apart. You know what the real issue is? Somebody doesn't want anybody's feelings to get hurt! The solution? Continue to reward those who don't want to think, but still want their ego's stroked. Here's a better idea: how about a 'Safe Mode' warzone, where players can also have their diapers changed and a short snack break between rounds? Edited January 6, 2012 by Thomaas_Quinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJFISH Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Here's a better idea: how about a 'Safe Mode' warzone, where players can also have their diapers changed and a short snack break between rounds? ^ for the win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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