I appreciate that there aren't macro's and add-ons. Thanks BW!

[savagepotato]

No one is asking for SWG's macro system.

 

We want WoWs.

 

it's simple, you can't automate anything with it and it can't be used to activate more than one ability.

 

You can't give it if/then statements, nothing.

 

It just lets us do mouse over targeting or making one button cast, say, heal if I target a friend or cast a damage ability if I target an enemy.

 

No one wants a macro system that will play the game for us, we just want a simple system to allow some minor modifications to how spells and abilities are cast.

 

You went so far as to say if they allowed steroids in the Olympics it would be A-ok because it would be a level playing field.

 

The point is it's a slippery slope SWG is a good example of where that line of thinking can take a game. WoW has been a changing place for mods but it was pretty stupid over the years too. There were mods so powerful that you could draw out boss strategies in the game world as if you were drawing on the game world in magic marker (which ultimately got patched out of the game.)

 

It's a slippery and un-necessary slope to allow user created mods. I would rather they refine the UI and make developer approved changes that are official and available to all.

 

If they decide mouse over healing is fine then good, add it, make that the standard for everyone. There are lot's of UI changes I would like to see myself, but I would rather not see them at all than see another Frankenstein mess of user mods.

Edited January 4, 2012 by savagepotato

[Phadian_gess]

i have all my skills spread out among the 4 skill bars and i am doing just fine. I dont need macro's carrying me through an already simple game nor do i need addon's dumbing down my combat. I used addons in wow when i played it and i had someone literally whine because i wasnt using spell flash for my warrior and the same whining is going to happen here if this stuff gets implemented.

 

 

long story short yeah wow set a standard for mmo's in terms of content and accessibility but at the same time their standards have been slowly lowering themselves with content (4.1 patch helloooooo and lets not forget the panda expansion they are implementing) and allowing such things as gearscore and dps meters. if anything they should implement a built in threat meter. no not an addon for it. have it built in. I did just fine in wow without addons and saw no real change other than being able to have my own music play and a few UI graphics changes.

[savagepotato]

I have stated no fallacy at all, if you think so please state the type.

 

Also you obviously have no idea what I am thinking.. Mods and bots are technically 2 different things, the fact you can not tell that is scarey.

 

Your fallacy is that mod's do not affect anyone but the people that want to use them.

 

It has been stated many times over, and in which ways they affect the game play of those who do not want to use them.

Edited January 4, 2012 by savagepotato

[Lormif]

You went so far as to say if they allowed steroids in the Olympics it would be A-ok because it would be a level playing field.

 

The point is it's a slippery slope SWG is a good example of where that line of thinking can take a game. WoW has been a changing place for mods but it was pretty stupid over the years too. There were mods so powerful that you could draw out boss strategies in the game world as if you were drawing on the game world in magic marker (which ultimately got patched out of the game.)

 

It's a slippery and un-necessary slope to allow user created mods. I would rather they refine the UI and make developer approved changes that are official and available to all.

 

If they decide mouse over healing is fine then good, add it, make that the standard for everyone. There are lot's of UI changes I would like to see myself, but I would rather not see them at all than see another Frankenstein mess of user mods.

 

So you wanna talk about fallacy and then you state a slippery slop fallacy, pretty much verbatim.

 

This game is in desperate need of macros at the very least, it is too buggy not to be able to quickly target and heal.

[Ibjelis]

keybinds harm people that prefer to click because they're better, and give people who use them an advantage.

 

Remove keybinds so i can click and not feel like i'm bad.

 

qft .

[Lormif]

Your fallacy is that mod's do not affect anyone but the people that want to use them.

 

It has been stated many times and in which ways they affect the game play of those who do not want to use them.

 

That is not a statement that I made. Also a fallacy is not a statement that is false in truth, it is a statement that is false because of the way it is stated.

[savagepotato]

So you wanna talk about fallacy and then you state a slippery slop fallacy, pretty much verbatim.

 

This game is in desperate need of macros at the very least, it is too buggy not to be able to quickly target and heal.

 

Macros and mod's are two different ballgames.

 

Personally I wouldn't care at all if they added a basic macro system. What I have a problem with is user created mods that change the face of the game and influence things to the degree they do in games like WoW.

 

The second I hear, "raid forming for XXX encounter, must have mod YYY to go, pst" that means the idea has failed.

Edited January 4, 2012 by savagepotato

[TheHauntingBard]

Sadly most people that are against add ons have yet to provide a good argument why it is such a bad thing.

Just like they don't seem to mind that when you buy razers SWTOR keyboard you can macro all you want.

 

 

Usually people pick on well a lesser well formulated post and bash it.

But when some one writes a constructive posts they tend to go back to "NO ADD ONS' because the truth is most of them have no idea what they are talking about.

 

Sadly it's just parrot talking mixed with a lot of paranoia and miss information.

[Finis]

Macros and mod's are two different ballgames.

 

Personally I wouldn't care at all if they added a basic macro system. What I have a problem with is user created mods that change the face of the game and influence things to the degree they do in games like WoW.

 

The second I hear, "raid forming for XXX encounter, must have mod YYY to go, pst" that means the idea has failed.

 

I still don't see how that effects you adversly beyond the consequences (or rewards) or your own choices.

 

You chose not to install those mods, therefore, you have chosen, not to be eligible for such events. How is that the fault of the devs, or even the people running the event. How is that any different from, "raid forming for X encounter, anyone running a DPS meter will be kicked!"

 

At that point, anyone chosing to run a PDS meter makes the choice to go or not go. Simple as that. Yet I doubt so many of the anti-mod crowd would have a problem with the above scenario, because it's in line with their chosen play style.

[savagepotato]

Sadly most people that are against add ons have yet to provide a good argument why it is such a bad thing.

Just like they don't seem to mind that when you buy razers SWTOR keyboard you can macro all you want.

 

 

Usually people pick on well a lesser well formulated post and bash it.

But when some one writes a constructive posts they tend to go back to "NO ADD ONS' because the truth is most of them have no idea what they are talking about.

 

Sadly it's just parrot talking mixed with a lot of paranoia and miss information.

 

People have provided many, very strong arguments as to that.

 

You have perhaps chosen not to read them. Or have chosen to discount them because it suits your purpose.

[Yfelsung]

How is it a slippery slope when modern MMO companies have gone out of their way to LIMIT the power of mods and macros?

 

Remember, when mods because too automated in WoW, BLIZZARD broke them.

 

There's a reason why the "Slippery Slope" argument is considered a logical fallacy, because if we applied it to everything, we'd do nothing.

 

NO ONE ASKING FOR MODS HERE WANTS THE GAME AUTOMATED.

 

With the current UI, we've reached a skill ceiling. We can't react any faster or do things any better because we don't have the tools. For me to maximize my tanking ability, I need mouseover macros.

 

For me to maximize my healing, I need focus cast macros.

 

These are tools to allow some of us to push past the skill ceiling. A focus cast macro does not make healing easier, it makes me able to heal better than is possible without it.

 

With focus cast macros, I can set up keybinding systems that allow me to heal an entire group without retargetting, BUT, it's actually harder because it means I'm using like 54 bloody buttons to do it.

 

One again, prohibition logic doesn't swing nor does "slippery slope" arguments.

 

We're not going to start using fallacious arguments here.

[Lormif]

Macros and mod's are two different ballgames.

 

Personally I wouldn't care at all if they added a basic macro system. What I have a problem with is user created mods that change the face of the game and influence things to the degree they do in games like WoW.

 

The second I hear, "raid forming for XXX encounter, must have mod YYY to go, pst" that means the idea has failed.

 

 

What you want to prevent is adding to the game, changing the face is desperately needed, as it is really messed up.

[leondore]

You went so far as to say if they allowed steroids in the Olympics it would be A-ok because it would be a level playing field.

 

The point is it's a slippery slope SWG is a good example of where that line of thinking can take a game. WoW has been a changing place for mods but it was pretty stupid over the years too. There were mods so powerful that you could draw out boss strategies in the game world as if you were drawing on the game world in magic marker (which ultimately got patched out of the game.)

 

It's a slippery and un-necessary slope to allow user created mods. I would rather they refine the UI and make developer approved changes that are official and available to all.

 

If they decide mouse over healing is fine then good, add it, make that the standard for everyone. There are lot's of UI changes I would like to see myself, but I would rather not see them at all than see another Frankenstein mess of user mods.

 

/sigh ridiculous. AVR got nuked in the span of a few weeks, barely anyone used it before it was gone.

 

So a whole plethora of amazing mods that could benefit the player community by improving aesthetics and QoL and giving players choice should be barred because of a few unbalancing addons that were created for (and then quickly patched out of) WoW.

 

Yeah, makes sense..... No wait, it actually doesn't.

 

Oh and...

 

He wants EQ back

 

8 Spell gems, can't hot-swap in combat. takes 30s-90s to switch ONE slot.

 

Lets also go back to staring at your spellbook for 5 minutes between pulls, nekid corpse runs, un-dinging, taking 2 hours to run across the world when you can't find a druid/wizard nice enough to take your money and teleport you, 100 man raids that could wipe because one jerkhole who wasn't invited brought a train to the tank or healers, 6 man healers casting 1 heal spell on a rotation for 2 hours

 

OH YEAH, good times

 

No.

 

Freaking hilarious lol, good times. I remember the first thing I saw everytime I stepped into Karnor's Castle was "TRAIN INC"... hated that place.

Edited January 4, 2012 by leondore

[savagepotato]

I still don't see how that effects you adversly beyond the consequences (or rewards) or your own choices.

 

You chose not to install those mods, therefore, you have chosen, not to be eligible for such events. How is that the fault of the devs, or even the people running the event. How is that any different from, "raid forming for X encounter, anyone running a DPS meter will be kicked!"

 

At that point, anyone chosing to run a PDS meter makes the choice to go or not go. Simple as that. Yet I doubt so many of the anti-mod crowd would have a problem with the above scenario, because it's in line with their chosen play style.

 

Because the existence of mod xxx has now made me ineligible for this event. And you fail to see how this effects me, moreover you transfer the blame on to me and say "well it's your own fault for not installing the mod, you choose not to be able to go, that's your problem.

 

You are putting the control over the way I play the game in the hands of other players. You have now given them a reason, and a tool to exclude me. But you fail to see how this has any effect on the game?

[Finis]

Because the existence of mod xxx has now made me ineligible for this event. And you fail to see how this effects me, moreover you transfer the blame on to me and say "well it's your own fault for not installing the mod, you choose not to be able to go, that's your problem.

 

You are putting the control over the way I play the game in the hands of other players. You have now given them a reason, and a tool to exclude me. But you fail to see how this has any effect on the game?

 

And you don't see how your desire for a lack of mods adversely effects me?

 

Pot, kettle, black?

[Ahlin]

Because the existence of mod xxx has now made me ineligible for this event. And you fail to see how this effects me, moreover you transfer the blame on to me and say "well it's your own fault for not installing the mod, you choose not to be able to go, that's your problem.

 

You are putting the control over the way I play the game in the hands of other players. You have now given them a reason, and a tool to exclude me. But you fail to see how this has any effect on the game?

 

I just want you to know: You're being exceedingly hypocritical.

[ferroz]

Here we go again... every thread about this degenerates.

 

Guess what, people like myself and the OP and many more are entitled to our opinions as much as anybody who wants macros.

Sure, but it's asinine for you to insist that your way is the correct one.

 

But the misleading argument that adding macros doesnt harm the people that dont use them is ridiculous.

There's nothing misleading about it. It's just simply fact: If you don't use them, they have 0 effect on you.

[Chomag]

 

There's nothing misleading about it. It's just simply fact: If you don't use them, they have 0 effect on you.

 

Still doesn't help with the fact that I hate people who do things I don't approve of. How dare they ?!?

[ferroz]

That is not a statement that I made. Also a fallacy is not a statement that is false in truth, it is a statement that is false because of the way it is stated.

Actually, a conclusion with fallacious support isn't necessarily false, it's just bad logic; it's possible for the conclusion to be true even though the logic is wholly fallacious.

[savagepotato]

And you don't see how your desire for a lack of mods adversely effects me?

 

Pot, kettle, black?

 

You utterly discount the effects on me, and so tell me again why I should be sympathetic to the effects on you claim on yourself?

[ferroz]

You went so far as to say if they allowed steroids in the Olympics it would be A-ok because it would be a level playing field.

 

The point is it's a slippery slope SWG is a good example of where that line of thinking can take a game. WoW has been a changing place for mods but it was pretty stupid over the years too. There were mods so powerful that you could draw out boss strategies in the game world as if you were drawing on the game world in magic marker (which ultimately got patched out of the game.)

The only slippery slope here is the slippery slope fallacy that you using here...

[Finis]

You utterly discount the effects on me, and so tell me again why I should be sympathetic to the effects on you claim on yourself?

 

Straw Man much?

 

I am not unsympathetic to your stand point, it's hard to have convictions (I will play with no mods) and live with the consequences (I will not being invited to hypothetical raids that require a specific hypothetical mod).

 

Some of us, however, prefer to live in a world with choices, and able to chose a path for ourselves, rather than living in a world of other people's ideals that do not line up with our own.

[ferroz]

You utterly discount the effects on me,

That's because it's trivial to show the adverse effect on people without mods, and impossible to show any adverse effect on you (since there isn't one)

[savagepotato]

Straw Man much?

 

I am not unsympathetic to your stand point, it's hard to have convictions (I will play with no mods) and live with the consequences (I will not being invited to hypothetical raids that require a specific hypothetical mod).

 

Some of us, however, prefer to live in a world with choices, and able to chose a path for ourselves, rather than living in a world of other people's ideals that do not line up with our own.

 

You have a choice, you can choose to play this game with no mods, since it has none, or you can choose to go play a game that supports the play style you desire.

[TrifKaylon]

You have a choice, you can choose to play this game with no mods, since it has none, or you can choose to go play a game that supports the play style you desire.

 

And if they add mod support further down the line? Do you stop playing? Just curious.

Edited January 4, 2012 by TrifKaylon