I appreciate that there aren't macro's and add-ons. Thanks BW!

[csward]

Title says it all.

 

I like the game without macro's and add-on's that allow you to spam one button for everything. I currently play a level 40 combat medic and enjoy the thought process that goes through when playing.

 

Please don't cave in to the lazy.

 

I totally disagree with you. While one-button macros would be no fun, there are a TON of UI mods from WoW that I wish I had in this game. Mostly being able to resize, cut, and move the UI. I do miss my add-ons.

[Festeezio]

In this thread it seems like people for mods are for freedom of game play, and those against mods are using the snow ball effect for the base of their argument. I've played WoW and run instances without mods or macros. I was never great, but was good enough. It just frustrates me when people want to take away another person's freedom of choice, and even worse, gloat about it.

[Knyghtprowler]

That and Autohotkey http://www.autohotkey.com/

 

Guys, people who really want macros are using macros right now. If you want macros learn to adapt and research what you need to do. There is always a way.

 

What he said... there are two ways to go about it.

 

Either they give it to us... or we will find alternate ways around it.

[Lazorous]

That and Autohotkey http://www.autohotkey.com/

 

Guys, people who really want macros are using macros right now. If you want macros learn to adapt and research what you need to do. There is always a way.

 

Except I believe use of such software would be against their ToS and you can be banned from that. I'm not sure how they would go about the macro'ing from keyboard/mice, as that technically is a breach of their terms too.

[Nuzt]

The current UI is not very well thought out, if they intended to not allow Addons they should have put more effort into the UI.

[savagepotato]

By arguing they stay out, you are arguing that choice remain gone.

 

In a neighborhood of all read houses, if someone wants a green one, and the HOA says no, they are still taking away a choice.

 

And no, you would not take away from the play environment of those that do not wish for there to be mods, cause guess what, you dont have to use them.

 

You are beating on a point that has been refuted.

 

You can say "you can just not use the mods" time and time again ( and I know you will, chances are good you will recite that mantra yet again in reply to this ).

 

Yet the fact of the matter remains, the existence of mods creates an environment where their use becomes unwillingly placed on people at best. And at worst, their existence influences game difficulty through development to the point where it becomes nearly impossible to be without them.

 

There really is no better analogy than that of comparing it to performance enhancement use in sport. Yet people will argue that they should allow that too just to make their argument for mods.

[Lormif]

Except I believe use of such software would be against their ToS and you can be banned from that. I'm not sure how they would go about the macro'ing from keyboard/mice, as that technically is a breach of their terms too.

 

You would be wrong. You are working with the OS, not the game. The only thing against the TOS is if you screwed with the game in some way.

[brusthoden]

Except I believe use of such software would be against their ToS and you can be banned from that. I'm not sure how they would go about the macro'ing from keyboard/mice, as that technically is a breach of their terms too.

 

that is a good point but i have a g13 and i can macro it the game would be taking away from my device if i weren't allowed to use it the way it was intended right i think they would over look it unless it in some way changes the game or hinders others.

[Knyghtprowler]

Except I believe use of such software would be against their ToS and you can be banned from that. I'm not sure how they would go about the macro'ing from keyboard/mice, as that technically is a breach of their terms too.

 

Really? Because you can buy a keyboard off this site right now that does just that. How could they sell a peice of hardware that breaks their own ToS?

[Yfelsung]

Wow, you're not very good with logic are you.

 

You just stated dangerous illegal performance drugs, then you stated safe legal performance enhancing drugs. So why did you assume I was only talking about the illegal drugs? lol

 

So then lets go back to your example, and I'll be specific to talk about the "Legal" ones. And just so you know, Growth Hormones are not legal in sports right now, yet you state they are safe. So how will you present that argument to advocate for its use? Go on.

 

 

But again, you're missing the crucial point in which you are ignoring.

 

It's the concept that you are trying to introduce a new element to an already stable environment. It's only necessary because YOU find it necessary. And you apparently find it necessary to Handicap people that don't follow suit.

 

No, I don't feel the need to handicap them.

 

They are choosing to handicap themselves.

 

And if you weren't talking about illegal drugs, then what was your point?

 

There are HUNDREDS of performance enhancers that are legal in sport. Again, I bring up creatine. Practically every athelete in a sport that involves strength uses creatine.

 

You can look at creatine just like a mod. It provides an advantage, but it's allowed by every person in the sport, so the field remains level.

 

I'm sure some athletes don't use creatine, doesn't mean the others have to stop. They made a personal choice to handicap themselves.

 

My example of steroids was just to make a point that if everyone was on steroids then the field would be level. That point still stands logically even if steroids are dangerous.

 

I could have used creatine in the same example and it would have been the same point.

 

The legality of the substance and my point about the level playing field are independant facts.

 

If steroids are illegal or legal, the statement "if everyone uses steroids, it's level" is still a true statement.

 

And you say we're trying to implement something into an already stable environment? What stability? I can't use CTRL D and CTRL A as keybinds. I can't have 4 bottom bars. I have to stare at a tiny buff bar to see when my free procs have procced so now I'm not even playing SWTOR as much as I'm playing "STARE AT MY BARS".

 

The base UI is terrible, that's why they said we're going to be able to mod it. Because then they don't have to waste their time changing their UI, they can let us fix their UI for them.

 

That's the beauty of mods, it lets us fix things for them.

[Lormif]

You are beating on a point that has been refuted.

 

You can say "you can just not use the mods" time and time again ( and I know you will, chances are good you will recite that mantra yet again in reply to this ).

 

Yet the fact of the matter remains, the existence of mods creates an environment where their use becomes unwillingly placed on people at best. And at worst, their existence influences game difficulty through development to the point where it becomes nearly impossible to be without them.

 

There really is no better analogy than that of comparing it to performance enhancement use in sport. Yet people will argue that they should allow that too just to make their argument for mods.

 

 

And again, I have refuted you time and time again.. The game already does this. gear, abilities, classes are already like this.

 

Besides the FACT that you can already use macros kicks your argument out of the water. Use of a G19 allows me to setup what ever macros I want, how you going to level that playing field, with your own G19, or macros built in.. It is more level with built in macros.

[brusthoden]

Really? Because you can buy a keyboard off this site right now that does just that. How could they sell a peice of hardware that breaks their own ToS?

 

it wouldnt be how could they cause they want to make money it would be they are retarded for doing so lol

[Adam_Nox]

I'm confused. People actually like the fact that they are limited to 4 quickbars and that the OPS group window covers up one of them in warzones and the companion bar forcibly covers one of them for some unknown reason? They enjoy the fact that there is no customization to the user interface? They enjoy that there is no combat log? They enjoy the fact that in order to split a stack of items you have to shift click/drag which also inputs the item into your chat window? They enjoy the fact that healing is significantly more cumbersome than in other modern mmos?

 

This is all very confusing for me considering how awful this game's UI is. I like the game a lot, but the UI is so frustrating that it is almost a deal-breaker for me.

 

I would rather be limited to one bar for slots, 8 skills max, changeable only outside of combat. Then there would be more strategy and less monkeyfingering for the win.

[Lormif]

it wouldnt be how could they cause they want to make money it would be they are retarded for doing so lol

 

I would love for someone to point out how using a keyboard for macros, not scripting by the way, breaks the TOS. If it did using windows in general would be a violation of the TOS.

[Chomag]

Except I believe use of such software would be against their ToS and you can be banned from that. I'm not sure how they would go about the macro'ing from keyboard/mice, as that technically is a breach of their terms too.

 

The ToS also says you're not supposed to access content with a character that is way below that content. This means a level 10 receiving a level 50 item, like a bank alt, is breaking the ToS.

 

If we start interpreting the ToS rules word for word and not in their spirit, people would get banned by the hundreds every day.

 

I fully agree with banning automation addons and software that does things without player intervention, however keyboards and autohotkey don't automate anything, they just press 3-4 keys at the same time. If this is an offense then multiboxing is bannable and that's ridiculous as it's permited even in wow who have way more experience with the consequences of these software and they would know best if it was something to be banned.

[Dietyz]

not having macros and addons if ok if they add dps meters into the game

[Knyghtprowler]

I agree there - The devs can't possible give everyone everything they want.

 

Mods on the other hand allow anyone to custom build a mod for anything and give it to thier guild, friends or the public.

 

The man power involved is just not feasible for someone at Bioware to dedicate an entire team to doing nothing other than mod development. Do you realize how may thousands of mods there are for WoW? How many people were involved with thier creation?

 

Letting the public have access to this takes the entire thing off of the devs shoulders. Win Win

Edited January 4, 2012 by Knyghtprowler

[richardya]

Keybinds harm people that prefer to click because they're better, and give people who use them an advantage.

 

Remove keybinds so I can click and not feel like I'm bad.

 

This is a really good argument.

Key binders make it easier than clicking and macros make it easier than key binding.

 

Theoretically, Keybinding should be a disadvantage, if you press one button that is do ability 1, do ability 2, do ability 3 and something changes you are stuck.

 

That's why my official position is to be in favor of limited macros, something like 2 abilities including "IF this isn't active THEN do this" Or messing with the delay so you accomplish the same thing.

Edited January 4, 2012 by richardya

[savagepotato]

And again, I have refuted you time and time again.. The game already does this. gear, abilities, classes are already like this.

 

Besides the FACT that you can already use macros kicks your argument out of the water. Use of a G19 allows me to setup what ever macros I want, how you going to level that playing field, with your own G19, or macros built in.. It is more level with built in macros.

 

You can also go and use a third party bot program to automate absolutely anything you want.

 

There was a company that thought exactly like you do. SOE, they added a macro system so powerful in star wars galaxies that you didn't even need a bot program to bot the game, it was already there.

 

The game suffered greatly because of it and there were afk bot's everywhere. But hey it's a level playing field so it must be good right?

 

You haven't refuted anything, just hardheadedly repeated the same fallacy again and again.

 

You have nothing, no mods, no play style to take away. TOR is what it is for better or worse. Should they add more UI customization, absolutely. Should they allow all out free for all mods like WoW absolutely unequivocally NO.

Edited January 4, 2012 by savagepotato

[Finis]

Correlation != Causation

 

Better healers tended to use things that reduced the numbers of actions they took. You saw that good healers used these things and concluded that it was the addons that made them good. I assure you, the people who were good with addons in other games are most likely good in this game without addons.

 

^ ^ ^

 

QFT

 

At best, macros make mediocre players 'acceptable'

 

At worst, lack of certain types fof support (no mouseover targeting, no target-of-target, etc) keep people like me, who were decent healers in other games, from playing them in this one.

 

What's the lesser of two evils, spaming for a healer in general for an hour and not getting one? Or getting one in 5 minutes, but they use macros to keep you alive?

 

ib4 you'd rather have someone who knows their class-blah-blah, yes yes, NO ONE who uses macros knows how to play, etc etc. we get it.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Finis

[Yfelsung]

You can also go and use a third party bot program to automate absolutely anything you want.

 

There was a company that thought exactly like you do. SOE, the added a macro system so powerful in star wars galaxies that you didn't even need a bot program to bot the game, it was already their.

 

The game suffered greatly because of it and there were afk bot's everywhere. But hey it's a level playing field so it must be good right?

 

You haven't refuted anything, just hardheadedly repeated the same fallacy again and again.

 

You have nothing, no mods, no play style to take away. TOR is what it is for better or worse. Should they add more UI customization, absolutely. Should they allow all out free for all mods like WoW absolutely unequivocally NO.

 

No one is asking for SWG's macro system.

 

We want WoWs.

 

it's simple, you can't automate anything with it and it can't be used to activate more than one ability.

 

You can't give it if/then statements, nothing.

 

It just lets us do mouse over targeting or making one button cast, say, heal if I target a friend or cast a damage ability if I target an enemy.

 

No one wants a macro system that will play the game for us, we just want a simple system to allow some minor modifications to how spells and abilities are cast.

[SliggXx]

I would rather be limited to one bar for slots, 8 skills max, changeable only outside of combat. Then there would be more strategy and less monkeyfingering for the win.

 

You realize that most classes require more than 8 skills just for core functionality, right? So, your solution for a ridiculously bad UI is to dumb down the game so people who can't manage to make use of their various abilities in combat can compete with those who can?

 

Stupid idea is stupid.

[Lormif]

You can also go and use a third party bot program to automate absolutely anything you want.

 

There was a company that thought exactly like you do. SOE, they added a macro system so powerful in star wars galaxies that you didn't even need a bot program to bot the game, it was already there.

 

The game suffered greatly because of it and there were afk bot's everywhere. But hey it's a level playing field so it must be good right?

 

You haven't refuted anything, just hardheadedly repeated the same fallacy again and again.

 

You have nothing, no mods, no play style to take away. TOR is what it is for better or worse. Should they add more UI customization, absolutely. Should they allow all out free for all mods like WoW absolutely unequivocally NO.

 

 

I have stated no fallacy at all, if you think so please state the type.

 

Also you obviously have no idea what I am thinking.. Mods and bots are technically 2 different things, the fact you can not tell that is scarey.

[Finis]

You realize that most classes require more than 8 skills just for core functionality, right? So, your solution for a ridiculously bad UI is to dumb down the game so people who can't manage to make use of their various abilities in combat can compete with those who can?

 

Stupid idea is stupid.

 

He wants EQ back

 

8 Spell gems, can't hot-swap in combat. takes 30s-90s to switch ONE slot.

 

Lets also go back to staring at your spellbook for 5 minutes between pulls, nekid corpse runs, un-dinging, taking 2 hours to run across the world when you can't find a druid/wizard nice enough to take your money and teleport you, 100 man raids that could wipe because one jerkhole who wasn't invited brought a train to the tank or healers, 6 man healers casting 1 heal spell on a rotation for 2 hours

 

OH YEAH, good times

 

No.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Finis

[TylerVolume]

There should be macros. This game would be more enjoyable with macros... FOR EXAMPLE

 

The reason I won't play a Jedi Knight, or Sith Warrior is because its annoying to have an ability that supercedes, but doesn't replace an ability.

 

Assault - Minor Damage, adds 2 rage

Battering Assault - Medium Damage, adds 6 rage, 15 second cooldown.

 

One button should use Battering Assault if its up, then switch to Assault. Why have 2 buttons for the same functionality. Who has the OCD enough to watch a 15 second cooldown on a terrible UI? I want to play the game, not watch icons refresh and pay attention to stuff like that.

 

You should be able to setup your combat more efficient and combo things. Having 50 buttons while some pretty much function as the same ability is a WASTE. This game is already button intensive enough, so why not simplify it a bit.