It's not the bugs that are killing it for me, it's the lack of urgency to fix them.

[Mindslyde]

WoW is 7 years old and still has the same bugs it had in beta. It is not uncommon.

 

Care to elaborate on what these bugs are exactly?

[gormanster]

Lol on you and your company fixing everything in a matter of hours.

Even in software development which is 100x time simpler than video games dev you sometimes get bugs that can elude developers for a long time.

 

If it's critical enough it will get fixed in a few hours, or it will get worked on until it's fixed -- period. If a client can't process credit card transactions, then guess what, everything is dropped until it's fixed and working in production. It's not unheard of and is how most companies in the world work. Stop trying to make excuses for them.

Edited January 4, 2012 by gormanster

[Spynnal]

As I've already said, some bugs are not just easy fixes. Let's take Rogues in WoW as an example. For literally YEARS (from beta until some time during WotLK) the ability 'Vanish' was bugged to hell. The devs stated that they could not get it to work 100% of the time and rogues were being pulled out of stealth from damage that hit them AFTER vanish had been used. The problem was is that the devs could not actually pin down the issue to where the actual coding was at fault, and as a result, they couldn't fix it.

 

These things happen. They aren't as simple as everybody thinks.

 

7 years, and they never, ever got that right...

 

On the plus side though, they did even larger revamps over that-a-way, that say that major revamps can happen with a live MMO.

 

Anyone remember in WoW when you could rez people during a fight (not battle rez), if your healers were outside of range? This caused content skipping. Flash forward to a month later, when a "combat pulse" was instituted that changed the way the game registered combat. They also did some major changes of server/client side handling of things too.

 

None of these were instant though. Need to give Bioware some time. I'm confidant they can fix many major issues...just not in the first 2 weeks.

[DirtyDozen]

Urgency, you live the lifespan of a fly?

 

Ok that made me LOL.

[Leggomy]

If it's critical enough it will get fixed in a few hours, or it will get worked on until it's fixed -- period. If a client can't process credit card transactions, then guess what, everything is dropped until it's fixed and working in production. It's not unheard of and is how most companies in the world work. Stop trying to make excuses for them.

 

This is a video game. This isnt real life it has nothing to do with ecommerce. Noone is making excuses we are just not worried about it. Its a freakin game they will fix it in due time. Its not earth shattering. If the $15 a month you havent even paid yet is so much to you then cancel until they have time to fix some stuff.

[Jasuk]

Alright, since I'm at work and can't play, I figured I'd just write out my frustrations . This is going to be long, so be forewarned.

 

I completely understand every mmo at launch is going to have bugs / issues / lack of functionality. I hate to say it, but everyone wants every mmo to function like WoW does today. Most however, do not realize that WoW has been seven years in the making. When it launched, there were many things that sucked about it too. It was only over the last x years did the bugs / enhancements get worked out. I get this part, it takes time to polish – however, many of the bugs that exist in the game are truly “game breaking” and are not simply nice “to have” things.

 

This is the part I don’t understand.

 

Every ticket I put in, feels like it’s just completely written off and sent to die somewhere. Everything feels like an automated response that doesn’t get read; regardless of how much time I spend writing up “the bug”.

“Good evening, this is protocol droid c2-az2. We have received you’re transmission and really don’t care about the bug you submitted. We’re busy at work fixing emoting during vehicle travel. Your bug has been sent to our compactor, and will be purged from the system within 30 minutes.”

 

While I understand there are probably many people writing about the similar bugs/issues, it would be nice to get a little customized sentence here and there stating this has been noted already and is being worked on – an acknowledgement that it was read; hell, many times I get a response telling me to go to SWTOR.com because it has a lot of great class and item information. What? So I reported a bug and you tell me to go to swtor.com to look stuff up about my class? Uhh, ok. I’ll get right on that.

 

The biggest problem I see however is just the COMPLETE lack of urgency to get anything fixed. Yes, the game is new. I get that. But the game has been out for 20 days now, and it seems like none of the critical bugs have been fixed. The UI still freezes (requiring you to CNTRL U twice), I still get stuck often times not being able to heal/buff anyone but myself regardless of them being targeted unless I change zones (diff than the UI bug), tons of tweaked out textures (READ: Seizure inducing areas), ridiculous ability delay, companions returning from missions completely just jacks ANYTHING you are doing most of the times, etc. The list goes on and on. While most have work arounds currently, A LOT completely cripple gameplay in critical situations.

 

Another good example of lack of any sort of urgency would be yesterday, when my server (port nowhere) had ilum bugged out so no one could do the PVP dailies there – which was reported as a bug since the server came back up yesterday morning. Ok, i know there are other things to do than the PVP daily in Ilum, but this is a big part of many people’s day. Nothing was done about it all day – no server restarts, no response to countless tickets, nothing. How can nothing be done to try to fix the situation? How can you just not care that you are completely limiting the game play of a big part of the players on the server (not everyone has 5 hours to spend doing instances/warzones all night)? Hopefully by tonight, things will be fixed but we'll see....

 

And this all goes without saying we lack some of the basic MMO functionality – such as a effing combat log. Really? Is this something that is THAT hard to implement? Or how about an actual customizable UI? I absolutely HATE that I am forced to leave my chatbox in the top left because that’s the only damn thing that moves. Why only have one item on the ENTIRE UI that is moveable; pointless for healers who need to see party windows.

 

While I don’t work directly in the video game industry, I DO work in software based one. We have big releases once every few months. If we find there are critical issues that prevent customers from doing BASE functionality after we release, it’s all hands on deck and we schedule multiple patches/hotfixes over the next week to make sure it’s done and functioning the right way. We don’t wait a month or have zero communication before something gets done.

 

I do realize there has already been two semi-patches that fixed a few smaller things (SUCH AS EMOTES WHILE RIDING VEHICLES), the effort is way way way too little. I read on the dev tracker that while minor things like the emoting aren’t necessarily critical items, they might have been started in the past and just were able to get squeezed in to the patch. I’m sorry, but that is such a ridiculous statement. Those minor things need to just get COMPLETELY shelved (as in, stop ALL work on them immediately no matter how far in to the “development” the programmer is) until the more critical issues are tackled – ZERO resources should be spent on it; at least that’s how we do it. I know not every company is like us, but it just seems like making sure someone can process a credit card is a bit more important than getting a font changed on a banner.

 

Again, I completely understand not fixing every bug at once or making tons of enhancements immediately; but this is just ridiculous. At this point I feel like there needs to be multiple weekly patches and hotfixes (obviously during non-peak hours), which just isn’t happening. Hell, there aren’t even any big patches on the horizon. Each of these last two patches have just been completely lack-luster. I legitimately feel like they are taking a “get to it when we get to it approach”, and not really caring at all what the community is saying. Take a lesson from FFXIV’s failed mmo. You’re going to lose a lot of your community if this stuff doesn’t start getting fixed soon.

 

That being said, I’m not going to QQ off here and cancel my sub or anything; at least not yet. However, I am noticing myself getting more and more fed up on a daily basis with bug after bug after bug – IE: going in to a battleground as a healer, and not being able to heal ANYONE but myself halfway is an awesome waste of 15 minutes. Overall I think the game is fairly polished, but honestly I’m way less impressed now than I initially was with it -- at least stability wise.

 

Here's the TL;DR: "I don't understand how game development works, and I'm not sitting in on the meetings at Bioware, but THIS is what's happening."

[Nathanking]

Is that a joke? A TON can be done in 20 days -- hotfixes, patches, a ridiculous amount of bug fixes (most times you aren't completely rewriting code to fix bugs, its things here and there that need tweaking).

 

I'm not throwing a tantrum; i'm just stating their customer service / lack of urgency / communication completely just sucks.

 

You and all these QQ'ers are INFURIATING. If you are a better coder than Bioware, why are you not working for them or another equally large company? This game is big - bigger than anything you have ever done probably, 300 million $s and 1 million subs big. Unless you fully understand the work that goes in to managing a game this large, your opinion walks a thin line full of questionable merit.

 

But that isn't what bugs me most!

 

No, it's you people, who think you know what you're talking about, and provide opinions as fact, when they AREN'T. Either play the game or don't. This thread is pointless and Bioware doesn't care, and neither do I. Kthxbai.

[Typhares]

If it's critical enough it will get fixed in a few hours, or it will get worked on until it's fixed -- period. If a client can't process credit card transactions, then guess what, everything is dropped until it's fixed and working in production. It's not unheard of and is how most companies in the world work. Stop trying to make excuses for them.

 

Credit card transaction using the like of Worldpay, sagepay, paypal? Compared to the interactions between graphics engine, rules engine and everything in between that a player can perform in the game?

 

You are comparing a finished defined process to an open environment with near infinite combinations.

[Barracudastr]

Everyone that is whining about bugs and fixes i guess you are highly skilled programers that can write any code in high speed and you are sitting on the solution? No thats what i thought.

 

Actually yes I am. Writing a program takes time yes, but once written adding code and debugging does not take much time at all, unless there is a serious serious issue affecting every area of your code in which case you would probably be better off with a rewrite using a different structure.

 

And unless you code yourself you have no idea of its difficulty or speed and cant really make a comment like that now can you.

 

Coding is simple like learning a different language once you understand it and how it works its not hard. Especially if your the one that wrote the code for the software from the ground up. It does not take long to see an error in your software and be like oh I know where that is go in and inspect the code and its links to other code.

[Leggomy]

You and all these QQ'ers are INFURIATING. If you are a better coder than Bioware, why are you not working for them or another equally large company? This game is big - bigger than anything you have ever done probably, 300 million $s and 1 million subs big. Unless you fully understand the work that goes in to managing a game this large, your opinion walks a thin line full of questionable merit.

 

But that isn't what bugs me most!

 

No, it's you people, who think you know what you're talking about, and provide opinions as fact, when they AREN'T. Either play the game or don't. This thread is pointless and Bioware doesn't care, and neither do I. Kthxbai.

 

But he is a programmer! He fixes bugs in 1 hour. I wish Bioware would hire this guy they would have every bug fixed in a day.

[Leggomy]

Actually yes I am. Writing a program takes time yes, but once written adding code and debugging does not take much time at all, unless there is a serious serious issue affecting every area of your code in which case you would probably be better off with a rewrite using a different structure.

 

And unless you code yourself you have no idea of its difficulty or speed and cant really make a comment like that now can you.

 

Coding is simple like learning a different language once you understand it and how it works its not hard. Especially if your the one that wrote the code for the software from the ground up. It does not take long to see an error in your software and be like oh I know where that is go in and inspect the code and its links to other code.

 

I cannot wait to see the MMO you create. It will be 100% bug free. When is it coming out?

[hardicon]

so what you want is everytime you report a bug that is gamebreaking for you, you want them to bring down the servers, all hands on deck so to speak and fix your gamebreaking bug and then bring the servers back up.

 

ive encountered two bugs so far that was kind of gamebreaking. one was a flashpoint where we accidentally reset the boss and was unable to get loot afterwards. no big deal, just a single loot drop.

 

the second one was i died on a boss fight in a flashpoint and was rezzed by a teammate the same time someone looted the boss. the game showed me as a ghost from that point on, i was alive, but couldnt aggro nothing, couldnt use any of my ui abilities except the hotkeyed ones and couldnt click on a party member or anythign in the ui frame. restarted the game and it was cleared.

 

if you can do stuff in ilum for one night, is it that game breaking, not really just go do something else or go play an alt for the night. I hate daily quests because people feel like they must do them daily, you dotn have to do them all. they will still be there the next day.

 

bioware is fixing bugs as fast as they can, they had two patches to fix bugs the first week of the game and another one today. 3 patches when the game has been out for about two weeks officially. omg the world is falling. most games dont get one patch in the first two weeks of live service, bioware has done 3.

[TUXs]

Are you freaking kidding me?!

 

Since release 15 days ago, there have been 2 MAJOR holidays and we're getting the 2nd update TODAY. What more could you ask? It's a game...I know bugs suck but the employees don't need to be slaves either.

[Nathanking]

Actually yes I am. Writing a program takes time yes, but once written adding code and debugging does not take much time at all, unless there is a serious serious issue affecting every area of your code in which case you would probably be better off with a rewrite using a different structure.

 

And unless you code yourself you have no idea of its difficulty or speed and cant really make a comment like that now can you.

 

Coding is simple like learning a different language once you understand it and how it works its not hard. Especially if your the one that wrote the code for the software from the ground up. It does not take long to see an error in your software and be like oh I know where that is go in and inspect the code and its links to other code.

 

Making an MMO such as TOR is different than producing some neat mods from Python.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Nathanking

[brycspain]

BW is fixing bugs but at a snails pace. The patch messages are so small...I wonder what they are doing instead of fixing everything.

[Logiick]

It's been 20 days since launch; and that's not considering the bugs that have existed since however far back in BETA.

 

Yeah, this really.

3 months of the same bugs in beta, now on Live? Please.

 

Not to mention anytime Blizzard or even NCSoft ****s up on a patch they hotfix that **** ASAP. Usually out within the first week.

 

AS WELL as BW having what budget to do this game with?

 

I think now that the holidays are over they'll kick it into gear. If not? Say goodbye, Biofail.

[Nathanking]

BW is fixing bugs but at a snails pace. The patch messages are so small...I wonder what they are doing instead of fixing everything.

 

"snail's pace" by who's merit? Yours? And what merit is that, exactly? How do you know they aren't doing it as fast as they can? Oh, because they aren't doing it fast enough for you? ****.

[Airslash]

Actually yes I am. Writing a program takes time yes, but once written adding code and debugging does not take much time at all, unless there is a serious serious issue affecting every area of your code in which case you would probably be better off with a rewrite using a different structure.

 

And unless you code yourself you have no idea of its difficulty or speed and cant really make a comment like that now can you.

 

Coding is simple like learning a different language once you understand it and how it works its not hard. Especially if your the one that wrote the code for the software from the ground up. It does not take long to see an error in your software and be like oh I know where that is go in and inspect the code and its links to other code.

 

Please stop...you're just making yourself look ridiculous.

Writing scripts in python (YES sCRIPTS!) for plugins on 3D programs is not programming. You have similar concepts, but writing a full blown application that covers millions of lines is totally different then what you're doing.

 

As stated many times before:

 

if you don't work on games, shut up please, cause you're clueless on how it works in the industry.

And before you flame me, yes I do work on games.

[sdream]

Uhh yes we did. Our BIGGEST release goes every December; since our clients want functionality to be up and running by the beggining on the next year. Do you think we just did the release and said "See you guys in a few weeks, company is on vacation. Deal with the issues until then."?

 

This year it was on December 15th. We released two hotfixes the week after to fix issues.

 

I'm not trying to excuse them actually. I am just trying to explain what may or may not be going on

 

I guess, I work in a different environment, but we don't do holiday releases when nobody is in the office to fix big issues. As the matter of fact, we don't even do anything super major on Fridays, because if $#@ happens during weekend, nobody's going to be around to resolve it.

 

What really surprises me is the amount of bugs and unfinished or poorly thought out features that made it to the release through beta cycle. It just screams unprofessional. An unpaid intern can design a better UI....

[Barracudastr]

I cannot wait to see the MMO you create. It will be 100% bug free. When is it coming out?

 

I didn't say anything about creating an mmo. I do however write code for very complicated 3d programs for plugins.

 

And its not bug free.... but it doesn't take me half a year to fix it either when a customer sends me an email with a bug.

 

Its very easy for me to track the bug down find the code thats causing the bug and fix it. And very rarely does it take me more then 24 hours.

 

And also I wouldn't release something major right before the holidays then just go on vacation lol.

 

If I release something then I work through the holidays to see that its working properly so that I keep my customer base and keep making money.

 

I guess if your a big company like bioware/EA/lucasarts thats really a non factor amirite?

Edited January 4, 2012 by Barracudastr

[Fraxture]

I didn't say anything about creating an mmo. I do however write code for very complicated 3d programs for plugins.

 

And its not bug free.... but it doesn't take me 20 days to fix it either when a customer sends me an email with a bug.

 

Its very easy for me to track the bug down find the code thats causing the bug and fix it. And very rarely does it take me more then 24 hours.

 

And also I wouldn't release something major right before the holidays, unless my boss, customers and investors demanded I do so, then just go on vacation lol.

 

If I release something then I work through the holidays to see that its working properly so that I keep my customer base and keep making money.

 

I guess if your a big company like bioware/EA/lucasarts thats really a non factor amirite?

 

I fixed that for you..

Edited January 4, 2012 by Fraxture

[Mandrax]

7 years, and they never, ever got that right...

 

On the plus side though, they did even larger revamps over that-a-way, that say that major revamps can happen with a live MMO.

 

Anyone remember in WoW when you could rez people during a fight (not battle rez), if your healers were outside of range? This caused content skipping. Flash forward to a month later, when a "combat pulse" was instituted that changed the way the game registered combat. They also did some major changes of server/client side handling of things too.

 

None of these were instant though. Need to give Bioware some time. I'm confidant they can fix many major issues...just not in the first 2 weeks.

 

I remember that. As long as they stayed out of combat you use them to res someone once. I remember using that whilst trying to down razorgore in black wing lair

[Ghostfaced]

World of Warcraft is, and always will be bug free.

 

http://www.nationalsarcasmsociety.org/National-Sarcasm-Society.jpg

[BoxingHideout]

If it's critical enough it will get fixed in a few hours, or it will get worked on until it's fixed -- period. If a client can't process credit card transactions, then guess what, everything is dropped until it's fixed and working in production. It's not unheard of and is how most companies in the world work. Stop trying to make excuses for them.

 

No it isn't. If you really do work for a company, you must work for a very small time company. No one would be stupid enough to have every coder in the company drop what they are doing and work on fixing a bug. That's a terrible use of manpower and a gigantic waste of the money.

[gormanster]

No it isn't. If you really do work for a company, you must work for a very small time company. No one would be stupid enough to have every coder in the company drop what they are doing and work on fixing a bug. That's a terrible use of manpower and a gigantic waste of the money.

 

I'm actually at quite a big company. When did i ever say everyone dropped what they were doing to fix the issue? We have different TEAMS for different LAYERS. The teams assigned to the bug would drop their current stuff to fix the issue at hand.