Ok all this QQing about Ops/scoundrel need to stop

[Toggy]

SOLUTION TO OPERATIVES/SCOUNDRELS HIGH BURST

 

stop walking around solo bro, make some friends

 

When you say "friends" I am guessing you mean two.. So a group of 3 can at least take out the operative? Because 1 on 2 is a cakewalk for these types atm.

 

[_Morholt_]

If you meet Healer its gettin hard, in one round I almost did give up. People did not focus the healer and it was impossible to down them alone since they healed each other...you waste time an die. Maybe I should join the healer faction aswell with some HoTs.

 

Ya well there was only 1 actual dedicated Sorc healer which I would always jump on first....but the other Sorcs always healed him up as well. But you totally need all 3 of your CC's to kill one Sorc you can't throw any at a 2nd Sorc healing him who isn't even heal specced.

 

You know a class is broken when you see 5-6 of them every BG (Sorcs), how many Operatives do you see...1 sometimes 0. Wow they're OP.

[Sevvy]

that sounded like a dodge. Again.. on beacon.. see you there... you were the one issuing beatdowns on alts... are you running away from those claims now? Stick to your operative.. you are pathetic without it.

 

brt gonna level to 50 and gear up just to smash you.

 

I don't even know this guy that you're trying to rip, but honestly you are coming off as extremely defensive and *****y. While you do make a valid point or two, you appear to be VERY afraid that your class is going to get nerfed to the ground.

 

Like I've said before, I'm not afraid of nerfs. I played the most nerfed class in WoW, I can play the most nerfed class in SWTOR.

 

Yes, it's easy for me to smash people when they're off by themselves, not 50, no gear, standing 10 meters away from the Expertise buff, but not picking it up, not using pots, stims, etc.

 

That's 90% of the people that are whining about Operatives. Then 10% of them are this Murse guy. Plays a decent class, has decent gear, plays in a group, yet you'd think Operatives murdered his family. The problem is the player or players. He thinks more highly of his skill and his group's skill than what reality dictates. So it can't be his fault. It's gotta be the completely OP class nerf nerf nerf!

[Thundartwothree]

If a class is OP, it will get nerfed. If you defend being OP just because you enjoy being OP, you're not only ruining the play experience of others but for yourself aswell. The cycle of FOTM is by far the greatest detriment to game longevity.

 

People who have played MMO PvP before know that its just a tool developers use(and deny they use) to keep you playing, it does work in the short term, makes you re-roll to a new spec/class putting in more time and keeping you playing. But after it wears off people tend to just throw in the towel with a game altogether. Its going to be shorter for TOR here, most MMO PvPs have been dealing with it for years in other MMOs, and most likely wont deal with it as long here.

 

Work needs to be done to create honest balance between classes or people will just move on.

[Bovinity]

Ops/Scoundrels remind me of rogues in vanilla WoW. Running around destroying anything that moved and patting themselves on the back for being so skilled, then crying later when they got brought into line.

 

Ever seen World of Roguecraft? Yeah, you guys are the Eddy Gordo of ToR classes. Enjoy it while it lasts. I look forward to a future filled with, "omg you broke my class!" when everyone who rolled the FOTM ganking class sees themselves brought into line.

[Dirtydurst]

brt gonna level to 50 and gear up just to smash you.

 

 

 

Like I've said before, I'm not afraid of nerfs. I played the most nerfed class in WoW, I can play the most nerfed class in SWTOR.

 

Yes, it's easy for me to smash people when they're off by themselves, not 50, no gear, standing 10 meters away from the Expertise buff, but not picking it up, not using pots, stims, etc.

 

That's 90% of the people that are whining about Operatives. Then 10% of them are this Murse guy. Plays a decent class, has decent gear, plays in a group, yet you'd think Operatives murdered his family. The problem is the player or players. He thinks more highly of his skill and his group's skill than what reality dictates. So it can't be his fault. It's gotta be the completely OP class nerf nerf nerf!

 

I get your point about preying on newbs and lowbies, and maybe this guy is a terribad; but you have to be honest here - the burst is a little too high right now. Hidden strike has gotta be scaled back a bit and the armor reduction on Acid Blade has to be lowered a tad too. Permanent 50% armor ignore is just too powerful for any class, let alone a bursty DPS class.

[XenonParsec]

The QQing needs to continue and then expand until these broken one-hit-wonder mirrors are fixed.

 

I suggest making all stealth actually break on any damage, their magic invisibility spell is bs.

[Reenolols]

Ops/Scoundrels remind me of rogues in vanilla WoW. Running around destroying anything that moved and patting themselves on the back for being so skilled, then crying later when they got brought into line.

 

Ever seen World of Roguecraft? Yeah, you guys are the Eddy Gordo of ToR classes. Enjoy it while it lasts. I look forward to a future filled with, "omg you broke my class!" when everyone who rolled the FOTM ganking class sees themselves brought into line.

 

Those who rerolled post-launch, okay. I rolled the class day 2 EA and had no idea what it was like past 17. I just happened to get lucky. Not all of us will cry.

[mosdef]

1v1 the op/scoundrel is king, and i am positive bioware did that for a reason. because at lvl 50 in organized team play (dont cry about premades if you arent finding other 50s to make a premade with you) no class in my opinion is overpowered. i usually Q with 3 other lvl 50s and whenever we go up against a premade, there is no class thats dominating especially well. the only way to get easy kills is to have everyone focus targets, rather than running around trying to get solo kills, which is why most of you are getting killed by operatives and scoundrels. we go for you because you are an easy kill without a sage or sorc around you to heal/shield you.

 

yes, operatives and scoundrels are like wow rogues, they are good 1v1, but in situations with more than 3 people on teams, their burst is negated by good teamwork and good healing

[Toggy]

The QQing needs to continue and then expand until these broken one-hit-wonder mirrors are fixed.

 

I suggest making all stealth actually break on any damage, their magic invisibility spell is bs.

 

Stealth is not really an issue. That is perfectly fine as it is.

[Sevvy]

I get your point about preying on newbs and lowbies, and maybe this guy is a terribad; but you have to be honest here - the burst is a little too high right now. Hidden strike has gotta be scaled back a bit and the armor reduction on Acid Blade has to be lowered a tad too. Permanent 50% armor ignore is just too powerful for any class, let alone a bursty DPS class.

 

If it's nerfed, it's nerfed. Good ones will still rock peoples' ****. It'll just go back to being the most underplayed class in the game. *shrug*

[Toggy]

If it's nerfed, it's nerfed. Good ones will still rock peoples' ****. It'll just go back to being the most underplayed class in the game. *shrug*

 

Well we will see. But one thing I can say is when they do nerf them, and it is TOO much, I got your back. In the mean time, things do need to be adjusted, and hopefully soon.

[GavNash]

It won't, the nerf is coming. I feel bad for you because the most OP class at launch gets the harshest adjustment. But all that really needs adjustment is your ridiculous damage. Scoundrels are doing triple the damage of Assassins and they can stealth and do it from range. Not to mention, how many freakin stuns do you have on instant? Edited January 4, 2012 by GavNash

[goulet]

The class is clearly king right now. There are others that are a 3 way tie for 2nd.. then there are the others who are just free kills for the classes that seems to be only played by skilled players? Give me a break.

 

i wouldn't say we're not kings, im just saying the emphasis placed on what people think makes them op is inaccurate, maybe inaccurate isn't the correct word but more along the lines of blaming the effect rather then the cause.

 

there are 2 commonly sited issues about them being op:

-damage

-the amount of time you can be cc'd

 

Damage is the one the vast majority of nerfers focus on. Which i don't blame them it stands out, but the underlying cause of the damage is inherently the result of the amount of cc i can use which has no counter accept one ability.

 

What does all this cc afford an operative?

-opening attack from stealth will be buffed for additional damage,apply a dot, and increase my armor penetration by 50% (from the use of acid blade). You will be knocked down for 3 seconds.

-cc takes over: proc stun/melee stun/grenade stun or 10 seconds of cc (assuming proc stun procs)

-this allows me to use acid blade again with back stab for the increased

damage/dot/armor pen. Making armor penetration increased by 50% the entire 10

seconds you're cc'd.

-the constant armor penetration buff (which is only possible through cc/attacking from

behind) further compounds damage done in conjunction with crit damage increase

from talents.

 

If you address the constant cc, the armor penetration buff isn't constantly up (only applied to attacks that must be performed behind the target) and is a substantive decrease in damage done; and all of this solely focuses on the operative side of the equation which doesn't consider what could actually be done in the way of reacting to the operative (provided you're not constantly cc'd). If you go fight an operative and they don't use their cc's in chains you actually have a fight on your hands.

 

That being said that doesn't preclude the possibility of damage being skewed too high. The issue that operatives have (at least the rational ones who look at opposing viewpoints) is that melee classes need burst dps as we don't have constant access to melee range (We do with cc chaining now but that wont last). Given that so much of the burst is facilitated by our cc, and in many cases only made possible by cc it would seem more logical to address the cc issues before the damage to avoid ending up in a situation where you nerf damage first, then address the cc problems leaving you with a melee class that then not only has a harder time catching anyone to do damage, but doesn't have substantial enough burst damage to use when they do catch them.

 

long story short no one wins the argument when one side thinks anyone who plays operative is disqualified from arguing for their class, and the other side thinks that anyone crying nerf has no idea what their talking about.

Edited January 4, 2012 by goulet

[-COBRA-]

enjoy this bs op class while it last, devs needs to do alot of work to make operative balanced, there is no way this classs work as intended, got too much armor penetration + too much burst + too many def cd. Compare it to dmg shadow/asassin tree, operative one is 3 times better

[XenonParsec]

Stealth is not really an issue. That is perfectly fine as it is.

 

No, it's not. It should not be a magic invulnerability/invis spell. I've experimented and it fails to break all the time on damage, when it absolutely should. I should be able to spam AoE and break an Op/Scoun out of stealth, BEFORE he gives me the cheddar cheese knockdown>own attack. If I at least had that opportunity, then I'd have no problem with their superduper burst.

 

The magic super invis combined with the one-hit-wonder attack is too much.

[justandulas]

I'm a sorcerer working his way up the pvp charts, and yea operatives are powerful... but to be honest no one class is OP to the point where someone can't beat/match them with good play. Ops have alot of burst leaving stealth, but hit for almost nothing when you get pvp gear and can survive the initial burst. All classes seem well balanced and capable of stealing the show in pvp if played properly. Best of luck out the battle field guys! Edited January 4, 2012 by justandulas

[BDutch]

No, it's not. It should not be a magic invulnerability/invis spell. I've experimented and it fails to break all the time on damage, when it absolutely should. I should be able to spam AoE and break an Op/Scoun out of stealth, BEFORE he gives me the cheddar cheese knockdown>own attack. If I at least had that opportunity, then I'd have no problem with their superduper burst.

 

The magic super invis combined with the one-hit-wonder attack is too much.

 

Someone on the design team really wanted to make sure that SWTOR rogues were able to escape combat effectively, given baseline abilities alone...

 

Evasion

Instant

Cooldown: 1 minute

Increases your chance to dodge melee and ranged attacks by 100% for 3 seconds. Does not break Stealth.

 

Avoidance Training

Passive

Evasion also removes all hostile removable effects when used.

[XenonParsec]

Someone on the design team really wanted to make sure that SWTOR rogues were able to escape combat effectively, given baseline abilities alone...

 

Evasion

Instant

Cooldown: 1 minute

Increases your chance to dodge melee and ranged attacks by 100% for 3 seconds. Does not break Stealth.

 

Avoidance Training

Passive

Evasion also removes all hostile removable effects when used.

 

Just... wow.

 

Didn't know stealth classes had such an EZ mode stealth, why not just give a super speed and invuln bubble while in stealth too, doesn't break on damage, 5s CD?

[rubikout]

Ok, i am Sorc 50 lvl half champ and 46 valor rank, i think that the problem not in dmg, but in DPS (dmg+cd), ops\scs spammed hits 2500-3500 dmg with no CDs and no cost, is a little radiculous, my lightining strike or force lightining hits only 400-700 dmg, while operative can do that dmg with auto atk on the move, my thundering blast (31 lightning) hardest crit with pots was 3500, and it has 6 sec CD and 2 sec cast time. I can't heal in dps spec (my heal 2500 2,5 cast time, op hit 3500-4500, nice, so -heal, i just can't understand logic. Edited January 4, 2012 by rubikout

[Kuari]

My only complaint is that no class should ever be able to two shot people without people being able to react. This was in fact something BioWare initially agreed with and I wonder what happened. Other than that? Yeah, Ops/Scoundrels are fine. Give them awesome burst, but don't go overkill like that.

[Zarovich]

I think the problems of Operative come from the fact that they and the Smugglar classes are the least played classes in beta/launch. Most player's eyes were on the Jedi/Sith and most of the balancing were directed at the high profile classes. Now I could be totally wrong in this assessment but something was overlooked when a class can kill any other within it's first chain of openers. There is no Rock, Paper, Scissors here, it is; Op/Scondrel > rest in 1v1 situations and some 2v1 situations with the ultimate escape mechanic to flee and try again if not successful the first time.

[EduardoJN]

Im not touching the Warzones subject for now, cuz i think that will be solved in time, but...

 

...IMO, this game has a short time since launch and we all have to learn how to properly play our classes instead of crying about nerf or derp.

 

Things that, for me, a player has to know when in PVP:

 

1- Oportunity (learning how to use the habilities correctly and properly, in the right moment, not only spamming and striking without purpose)

 

2- Equipment (learning that the proper gear can make the diference between life and death, dont underestimate getting a good gear set for u as soon as u can)

 

3- Experience (learnig how to fight each class properly, instead of asking for nerfs and derps. This is a big issue around here: ppl complaining that certain classes are OP, my char is ****, the other guy gives me 4k damage, etc.....but the fact is, again, IMO, that we all have to learn how to fight other classes properly, cuz the style changes.

 

A ranged classe will not have the same style as a melee and so on.

 

The stats on our chars makes the diference too: critical, shield, absorption, etc, we gotta learn how to manage them properly.)

 

 

And guess what: for me at least its taking some time to get used to all this.

 

This is my first MMO, i havent played WoW before, but its cristal clear that this MMO world is almost cientific: u gotta learn how to properly level, equip and fight....otherwise the complains about PVP will never stop.

Edited January 4, 2012 by EduardoJN

[Sivlar]

No, it's not. It should not be a magic invulnerability/invis spell. I've experimented and it fails to break all the time on damage.

 

It does break every time whether you want to lie to yourself or not. AOE will break stealth, every time. DoTs will break stealth every time.

 

What you are having happen it the said Op/Scoun is casting Triage which removes the DoT before he hits his vanish. It only works on physical effect DoTs though, so if it's force damage it will not clear the DoT.

 

Unless he is heal spec'd and put points in Triage to remove up to 4 effects both force and physical damage based. If that is the case, heal spec is sacrificing the burst DPS/Knockdown and their vanish is on a 3 min cooldown instead of 2.

 

Also Evasion/Dodge will not remove DoT's as far as I've seen, despite what the tooltip says. It just breaks snare/roots. That is unless people are just reapplying it and I'm not paying well enough attention.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Sivlar

[Gratus_Mortuus]

I think the problems of Operative come from the fact that they and the Smugglar classes are the least played classes in beta/launch. Most player's eyes were on the Jedi/Sith and most of the balancing were directed at the high profile classes. Now I could be totally wrong in this assessment but something was overlooked when a class can kill any other within it's first chain of openers. There is no Rock, Paper, Scissors here, it is; Op/Scondrel > rest in 1v1 situations and some 2v1 situations with the ultimate escape mechanic to flee and try again if not successful the first time.

 

I wasn't in closed beta, just the weekend ones. My understanding from guild mates who were in closed beta is the overpowered pvp issues with Operatives & Scoundrels was articulated very clearly and often. The Devs. simply did nothing about it.

 

-Gratus