Cormey Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 And that's a "I don't know how to read" Thanks for the clarification that I would make more progress arguing with a WALL Yeah, it's hard to convince people when you refuse to give a single shred of evidence to backup your claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Yeah, it's hard to convince people when you refuse to give a single shred of evidence to backup your claims. THEY CREATED THE GAME I JUST explained that even if they couldn't PATCH the problem in Beta they COULD HAVE rebuilt it from scratch. Do you want me to use bigger font? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etravex Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 vvvvv Every five minutes??? these problems have existed since closed beta with no "actual" or "legitimate" reponse; instead we get a vague response that may never see fruition. Not sure about you guys, but vague responses from developers have a bad history for going untreated in the MMO market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cormey Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 THEY CREATED THE GAME I JUST explained that even if they couldn't PATCH the problem in Beta they COULD HAVE rebuilt it from scratch. Do you want me to use bigger font? That's not evidence. I make poopies, that doesn't mean i know what's wrong when it comes out black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianoia Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 One of the first rules of customer service is to never over promise and under deliver. Statements like, "we'll get it taken care of as fast as possible" could mean, "it may take us a month." The customer just heard, "ZOMG THEY HAVE ONE HOUR!" If you tell them one month and it takes one month and a day, you will get completely annhilated by the customer. So, what do you do? You empathize, at MOST, and do what you can. A lot of these issues are on Bioware's radar, I'm sure, but if they even breathe a word about a time frame, it would be WW3. If they even mention "radar", people would just say "it's not fast enough." Look at the people posting on these forums. This isn't a "community", it's a mob. And they're out to lynch whoever has given them their unhappy feelings. The smartest thing Bioware could do I'd keep their mouth shut, fix what they can when they can, and let the mob stew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lienwyn Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 That's not evidence. I make poopies, that doesn't mean i know what's wrong when it comes out black. Really? I do, I'm was a med student before switching out to software. What kind of piss poor analogy did you just decide to use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 That's not evidence. I make poopies, that doesn't mean i know what's wrong when it comes out black. You've GOT to be trolling.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Really? I do, I'm was a med student before switching out to software. What kind of piss poor analogy did you just decide to use? Well in a way he is right... Bioware DID take a dumb on us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Really? I do, I'm was a med student before switching out to software. What kind of piss poor analogy did you just decide to use? except not all medical diagnoses are correct the first time (I wish it where the case but it's not) also fixing software code is a bit differnt. the human body is after all thousands of years old with thouands of years devoted to it's study (and we still know less then EVERYTHING about it) as a Med student here's a term you may be familer with Triage. MMO development teams have to use it too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cormey Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Really? I do, I'm was a med student before switching out to software. What kind of piss poor analogy did you just decide to use? The analogy is that saying 'they made the game' is about as much evidence to backing up his claim as 'my body created it'. Which is no evidence at all. He either provides actual evidence proving that he knows that they know how to fix the problem or he retracts his claim. I for one don't trust him so I want that undisputable evidence that he must be privvy to but is currently refusing to give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTijger Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 God I wish I screen capped the posts from Warhammer Online. Every dissenter was a WoW player and doomsayer. You do realize if SWTOR was BETTER than WoW, the WoW players would have switched over right? Uh, no? If you need me to explain why then I would be wasting my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 The analogy is that saying 'they made the game' is about as much evidence to backing up his claim as 'my body created it'. Which is no evidence at all. Do i REALLY need to explain the difference between autonomic bodily functions and voluntary game programming? DO I REAAAALLLLYYYY NEED TO EXPLAIN IT?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cormey Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Do i REALLY need to explain the difference between autonomic bodily functions and voluntary game programming? DO I REAAAALLLLYYYY NEED TO EXPLAIN IT?!?! No, you need to backup your claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahor Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Look at the people posting on these forums. This isn't a "community", it's a mob. And they're out to lynch whoever has given them their unhappy feelings. The smartest thing Bioware could do I'd keep their mouth shut, fix what they can when they can, and let the mob stew. The game industry made us to this "mob". - releasing unfinished products - not existing comunication - using of phrase and copy&pace statements instead of hand writen and true answares I mean hey, what are beta tests for when out of all this bugs maybe just 1 is fixed after the beta? That's no beta but just a "limited promo play for jurnalists". The monthly money we pay is split in two parts: 1) monthly "rent" of server use 2) "insurance" to get suport, help and fixes when needed Where 2 is by far the bigger part! Server time is no cost factor anymore today. The only right action to handle this "mob" would be: - officiel posts with : "We noticed this problem" - infomation in the next patch notes if -- problem solved -- problem known but not solved --- not solved becouse of XYZ Ignorans is NO option! The mob will just rage harder ... and leave after a short time which would mean: another failed online try (like Mytos, HG:L and so many other). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiksillver Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I mean there are a plethora of broken mechanics such as: -Ability Delay/Character Responsiveness -Abilities not firing properly -Animations preventing competitive play -Latency and FPS problems in Battlegrounds -Issues with class quests -Terrible Auction House Design -And did I mention Ability Delay/Character Responsiveness? -Etc... And BW is implementing emotes while on vehicles... and other nonsensical additions while the customer base is screaming for major fixes to their game all over the forums. Seems to me the same pattern we've seen before on other MMOs where the Developer is seemingly pretending that their customers complaints don't exist is following suit with Bioware. What do you guys think? EDIT: to clarify the issue: 1. Bioware should communicate they're intentions to their paying customers for current problems/bugs/glitches within the game: what they plan on doing, how it should be working etc... OR 2. Bioware has no responsibility to communicate or share information on how things "should" be working to their paying customers. Something such as "we are investigating the issue" is sufficient. It unacceptable, already unsubbed until they get their crap together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHauntingBard Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I think the moment people stop responding on this they don't care.Most likely you will get sub canceled no ETA.The moment that happens no amount of PR will get your game back on track , people will just look at it as Warhammer 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 No, you need to backup your claims. I already HAVE, but you won't accept them because you think creating an MMO is like "Making a poopie" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnykilla Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 The question you have to ask yourself is this: Would you rather see tiny QoL fixes such as them fixing the crashing out on space missions while the work on big ones, or would you rather also deal with small, annoying bugs, and have a huge patch released that fixes major bugs all at once? They are probably not quite there in terms of expectation managment like blizzard is. However, i find that many posters do not really understand software development cycles. They are working on a bunch of things, as mentioned, and there are only so many people who actually know the code. And why can't you just hire more? It doesn't work that way. Hire a coder today, he may be able to contribute useful code to the codebase in 6 months. My guess is that they are probably going balls to the wall to fix major game breaking things like quests hanging, client crashes, and so forth. Things like 'occassionally my pC will get really bad fps but if i do this then it clears' or 'ability delay is slow', these are really big things that are hard to nail down, the later will probably require a total rewrite of their communications protocol and ability queuing system. Anyway. If you think it sucks, leave. But see what happens in 6 months. If they fixed it by then, maybe come back (or don't, i don't care). I tried Rift for 2 months, i'll come back if they improve the questing/lore, which I found to be terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etravex Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 My biggest issue, and to me game breaking if it's not addressed, is the lack of communication Bioware has with it's customers. As many of you know an MMO is an investment. You input several hours into a character to customize them and make them what you want to make them. Now if you knew that (as an example) Bioware was going to make some game alter change you might be reluctant to spend more time on your invested character. However, the battle system in SWTOR is extremely flawed and unresponsive and will destroy PvE and PvP if left unattended. As an example of where Bioware can improve their customer relations they could come out and state: "Hey everyone we have been discussing the responsiveness of the battle system and we have decided to not change anything" or "Hey everyone we have been discussing the responsiveness of the battle system and we ahve decided to run every ability off a strict internal clock and get rid of any delay even if animations are clipped" This would be a good example of what Bioware intends to do with an unstable game mechanic and would give insight on the future of the game. This would be great to know either way before we know whether or not to invest more or less time into the game. We are paying for this service and this much I think is necessary. Given this is only one example of a particular problem within SWTOR, it does justice to the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I mean there are a plethora of broken mechanics such as: -Ability Delay/Character Responsiveness -Abilities not firing properly -Animations preventing competitive play -Latency and FPS problems in Battlegrounds -Issues with class quests -Terrible Auction House Design -And did I mention Ability Delay/Character Responsiveness? -Etc... And BW is implementing emotes while on vehicles... and other nonsensical additions while the customer base is screaming for major fixes to their game all over the forums. Seems to me the same pattern we've seen before on other MMOs where the Developer is seemingly pretending that their customers complaints don't exist is following suit with Bioware. What do you guys think? EDIT: to clarify the issue: 1. Bioware should communicate they're intentions to their paying customers for current problems/bugs/glitches within the game: what they plan on doing, how it should be working etc... OR 2. Bioware has no responsibility to communicate or share information on how things "should" be working to their paying customers. Something such as "we are investigating the issue" is sufficient. None of the issues you mention have anything to do with Bioware ignoring their customers. Those are technical problems that they will address. Development companies can work on more than one thing at a time, so even though you think they are ignoring problems...they most assuredly are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etravex Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 None of the issues you mention have anything to do with Bioware ignoring their customers. Those are technical problems that they will address. Development companies can work on more than one thing at a time, so even though you think they are ignoring problems...they most assuredly are not. Again, not saying that they aren't working on problems of course they are. I want to know what will be the outcome of those problems being worked on. In other words, what is their original design for specific problems and what it plans on being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloHand Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) The game industry made us to this "mob". - releasing unfinished products - not existing comunication - using of phrase and copy&pace statements instead of hand writen and true answares I mean hey, what are beta tests for when out of all this bugs maybe just 1 is fixed after the beta? That's no beta but just a "limited promo play for jurnalists". The monthly money we pay is split in two parts: 1) monthly "rent" of server use 2) "insurance" to get suport, help and fixes when needed Where 2 is by far the bigger part! Server time is no cost factor anymore today. The only right action to handle this "mob" would be: - officiel posts with : "We noticed this problem" - infomation in the next patch notes if -- problem solved -- problem known but not solved --- not solved becouse of XYZ Ignorans is NO option! The mob will just rage harder ... and leave after a short time which would mean: another failed online try (like Mytos, HG:L and so many other). I agree completely. I've dealt with customers for 15 years in my business and the one thing you cannot do is keep them in the dark about what the problem is and what your plan is to fix it....that is the surest way to lose their business. Even if I cannot present a solution I give them a layman's terms explanation of the major issue and a time frame, ie: I can fix this now, or this will take time. In the large majority of cases they are satisfied and happy even if it took forever to fix because they were informed...knowledge is power, power to placate. Edited January 2, 2012 by SoloHand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Again, not saying that they aren't working on problems of course they are. I want to know what will be the outcome of those problems being worked on. In other words, what is their original design for specific problems and what it plans on being. -nods- Well, that's kind of a leap to go from this stance to your original post where you accuse Bioware of ignoring players. Absence of developer feedback to customers does not equal absence of work on the issues or ignoring complaints. Developers are notorious for keeping mum on what's going on behind the scenes, mainly because the customer base always makes leaps to judgment on what they post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourTwent Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 And BW is implementing emotes while on vehicles... and other nonsensical additions while the customer base is screaming for major fixes to their game all over the forums. I get so sick of reading this. Yes, keep saying it so others think the devs are spending hours upon hours adding this one little thing. Come on! This was probably 1 line in the code that took 5 minutes to change. You wanting BUGS fixed within 2 weeks of the game being out is ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHauntingBard Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I get so sick of reading this. Yes, keep saying it so others think the devs are spending hours upon hours adding this one little thing. Come on! This was probably 1 line in the code that took 5 minutes to change. You wanting BUGS fixed within 2 weeks of the game being out is ludicrous. No I would like a game to be released with the promised features and with out gaming breaking bugs. I can wait for the minor bugs to be released. I did paid 55 Euro for this game and another 13 or so each month. I think it's quite acceptable to ask them to release a game with out game breaking bugs that have been known since beta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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