Dubage Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I look forward to then seeing this video where the team leaves you alone the entire time when you open on one of them. Maybe we should nerf snipers too they do damage when you leave them alone. Im just not one to scream Operative is OP because of the opener burst damage and playing against people who have little to no idea how to play their class after 3 weeks let alone how other classes in this game even work. I agree its to early to call for nerfs to any class. Nerf Stun, not the class. Its the combination that is currently causing the frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusksoverture Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) If you are supposed to be able to use skills when knocked down then it is bugged. That's what I thought, but I'm hearing that people can still use Shields & Knockbacks while on the ground. I didn't know if that was intended or not. Edited January 3, 2012 by Dusksoverture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeJayTC Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) If you are an operative or scoundrel and you lose in 1v1 PvP then your doing something very wrong. You never had a 1on1 against fully equiped 50ish Bounty Hunters / Troopers have you? You never had a 1on1 against fully equiped Jedi Tanks...... Our 4k crits tend to vary around 800-1000ish on a fully pvp equiped tank ^^ Besides that...you cannot crit someone half of his hp on the same level....shows me that you´re not 50 and good equiped.... Edited January 3, 2012 by DeeJayTC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratus_Mortuus Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Rangers? Really thats what you went with? Of all the classes you compare the op to a ranger in daoc? Rangers arent even in my top ten OP classes from that game. As a throw back to pvp from daoc i will say this: Pvp happened. I'm talking release of DAoC but the salient point is this. As a Ranger in DAoC I could stealth in to either of the other two factions areas, pick out targets up to 3+ levels higher than me and be guaranteed a kill. If I bit off more than I could handle or more enemies were around than I realized, I simply hit the "jet away" away skill, restealthed and rinse repeat. This was what got other players so angry and rightfully so. No class should have an "I win" button" let alone an "I win button" and if by some chance I don't I also have a guaranteed "get out of jail card". That's the state of Ops and Scoundrels. It's lame; but truth is, it's difficult to take SWTOR seriously on a PvP level any way for many reasons. This is just the most glearing where balance is concerned. -Gratus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrkab Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) I think someone else said it best... I have played nearly 200 matches at 50. And I always see these guys topping the board in both damage and healing at the same time. They do more DPS all while out healing most any other DPS class's DPS. Totals in a match mean jack and squat. You get those kinds of numbers by: 1. Being a healer. 2. Speccing for DPS. 3. Healing yourself, especially when out of combat and just to get the numbers for the medal. 4. Spending more time trying to get numbers instead of taking objectives. It's a herp derp number, it means jack and squat for the outcome of the match or the strength of the class. P.S. Not a Scoundrel, but I play with one that is approaching 60 valor and has BM gear. I can match his numbers in lesser gear, but the more time I spend actually winning the game (objectives) the lower my damage and healing tend to be. Especially in Huttball where coordinated passing, Rescues, KBs, etc. have netted us wins without getting much in the way of damage or heals. Edited January 3, 2012 by mrkab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xWhackoJacko Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) The problem really is that no class can effectively defend against an dps/pvp specced operative. If your stun/snare removal ability is on cd, and even if it isn't, a good operative can and WILL find you and kill you. I'm at 350 expertise and similarly geared Ops kill me in that 4-second time frame almost 100% of the time. Without a dedicated healer, you're doomed before the fight even starts. And a good operative will just gib your healer and come for you after, so....yea. Rogues in WoW were one thing, but they were paper. I could kite a rogue around for decades on my priest. Can't for the life of me do that on my Merc. Granted, if I'm allowed to freecast I can generally shred an operative in 4 GCDs, but that's a whole other nerfbat that needs to be dealt with lmao. Edited January 3, 2012 by xWhackoJacko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratus_Mortuus Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Rogues need to be nerfed..hard with decent gear and buffs we can DESTROY any target in 5-7 seconds and if we can't(outnumbered)..we can just restealth and run with our cc and damage theres nothing one can do to survive some rogues on our server easly solo kill 2-3 lower level enemies at once me and my op(erative)friend ..we just terrorized some warzones completly annihilating enemies without giving them a chance we could open up on 3-4 enemies and kill at least 2 before they knew what's going on..and then finish others all whine and rage in chat was fun..for a while we thought we are just THAT GOOD until i rolled other character, and got completely destroyed by lower level rogue for several times.. I appreciate the honesty. I also didn't realize "Mythic" was at all involved in this until reading it in another post. No wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mursie Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 lotta op/scoundrel qq threads.... weird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewstay Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 1- I've never ever seen a 5,2k Crit on Shoot First. Screenshot or it didnt happen. 7- 300k damage and 100k heal in one WZ from a Scoundrel? Screenshot or it didnt happen. http://kos-gaming.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/SSorSTFU.jpg This forum is full of cryers and liars. Or maybe just bad players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizergi Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 you want screenshots ? enjoy http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4498/97918203.jpghttp://img705.imageshack.us/img705/4948/16478171.jpg how about that ? not enough ? ok.. http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/9324/screenshot2011123122385.jpg http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/2875/screenshot2012010217145.jpg http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7761/001mcu.jpg nice huh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BambulaGTS Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 For all theory SGRAers here. 1. DoTs do nothing to combat stealth. He will get rid of DoTs. Ground targeted AoE - only if someone is AFK. 2. First stealth move do not make you CC immune, moreover resolve bar start to drop down immidiately after you fall to the ground. 4. With relic PvE adrenal PvP arenal you do not have chances at all. No f chances except guarded + pocket healer nearby (but who will jump on you anyways on that circumstances). 5. It is class that can heal, dispel, have stealth (lol "bad" heal in dmg spec, some classes have none) and do crazy damage, by the logic of things pure dps classes must do more dmg? Nope. 6. Big nukes are channeling, have indications for players so they can use some abilities proactively to partially mitigate damage. In this case ... 7. Crowd control ability combined with crazy burst damage, applying dot, having 50 % armor ignore? Whoever was behind that design, let's this man just go here and post what the punk he was thinking about when making that crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindor Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 This is hilarous when you think about it, force using light saber weilder all around and the one kicking *** is a soldier with a knife haha bioware i love you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riedeas Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Playing both as a sage and a scoundrel and having a sage friend who duels me pretty much all the time on my scoundrel who has like a 50/50 chance of winning(especially if he is shieled from start..), i think scrappers are almost fine!Maybe reduce the Armor penetration on flechette round to 25%, reduce/remove the knockdown and lower the damage abit on shoot first, but give them an out of stealth gap closer(something like leap/sprint) and maaaaaaaybe improve(not sure about this) out of stealth damage. To give them better group utility when there is no possibility for restealth, similar to shadows/assassins. Just wait till juggs/guardians/sentinel/marauders specced as rage/focus specced start to spam as much movies as scrapper/lethalitys... they can almost do same burst but AOE on a 6/12 sec cd(iirC) with higher mobility. This reminds me of WoW vanilla with the rogue/warrior nerf cries ;D, no one cared about warriors the first month(s) untill some of them got full epic gear and just started tearing through people like paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) According to all of this, the class has a big advantage when he has you at range & alone. Can't a stealth class sneak up on him and have a huge advantage. Should we demolish stealth? Granted I don't have any open world PvP experience in this game but just from reading it seems like people are saying a ranged class has an advantage when he is at range and gets the surprise jump on you. If he didn't, wouldn't it be a pathetic class? What if a marauder or assassin meet up with him at close range, who has the advantage then? What if it's the three other WZ's? Let him find a secluded spot in Alderan and wait for you to walk by, I want that guy on my team, [sarcasm.] In conclusion, I agree that a ranged class who is at range and catches you by surprise has a huge advantage. I also think in some circumstances the healer has an advantage. In some circumstances the AoE person has the advantage. The job of the game designer is too make many scenarios where diff classes have advantages and challenges. If you expect it to be equal all of the time you have given the designers an impossible task. I do not play this class nor do any family members, this opinion is my own and does not reflect my company. I did play an IA in beta but only to level 8. Edited January 4, 2012 by richardya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellindell Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Ready? Here's the big secret to defeating an Operative/Scoundrel if they jump you. 1. Use Control Break 2. Turn around. 3. Stun them 4. ??? 5. Profit. Free kill. You dont pvp im guessing. Try being a gunslinger who doesnt know one of these guys is coming. You are the wet dream of a backstab build because they know it will be easy to line you up. In Warzones it essentially makes you their number one target because your back is already to them, and you are stationary. Since the Hunker down mechanic is so obvious if you have it up they just wait and boom dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashanor Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) you want screenshots ? enjoy http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4498/97918203.jpg http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/4948/16478171.jpg how about that ? not enough ? ok.. http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/9324/screenshot2011123122385.jpg http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/2875/screenshot2012010217145.jpg http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7761/001mcu.jpg nice huh ? Obvious surge stacking and consumables. That means they have much lower crit, obviously. Just because Bioware has a badly designed system with little or no diminishing returns does not mean a class that relies on burst therefore benefits from said system needs to be nerfed. Edited January 4, 2012 by Ashanor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laikacosmo Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Ready? Here's the big secret to defeating an Operative/Scoundrel if they jump you. 1. Use Control Break 2. Turn around. 3. Stun them 4. ??? 5. Profit. Free kill. What do I do as a Sentinel with no stun? Am I just collateral damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riedeas Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 What do I do as a Sentinel with no stun? Am I just collateral damage? YES!! No but you force a healer to be your healing slave and then proceed to own everything on the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibdy Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 The moment they hit you with their initial stun from stealth, you've got a full bar of Resolve (the white bar). Just pop your CC break and CC them back. They can't CC you any more (at least for the next 10 seconds), because you've got a full Resolve bar. I recommend enabling the nameplate above your own character so you can more easily see your health and resolve bar. You're turning yourself into a free kill for these people by not learning how the game works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibdy Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 What do I do as a Sentinel with no stun? Am I just collateral damage? Pretty much. You're a pure damage class. Prepare to die a lot unless you've got a tank/healer friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nague Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Then they use their "Control Break" and hit you with their 4s stun which you don't have a chance of getting out of. DEAD. I get killed so often by scoundrels/operatives in the opening stun it's not funny. 15k hp, 300 expertise and I'm dead in 3-4 seconds. This is at level 50 of course. after the knockdown you are stun immune l2p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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