An example of how unpolished endgame is

[Vandaman]

Rift.

 

/argument

 

There end game was buggy as hell at launch too lol

[MorbidAri]

Rift.

 

/argument

 

Ummm... Rift's single god awful raid that it launched with was BROKEN on release.

 

/argument

[CHRISGG]

To the people posting that no aspect of this game is polished or finished: rubbish, take your head out of what ever niche of sand you've buried it in and look at the game as a whole objectively. Not just from the point of view of what you have to gain from it.

 

Before someone comes back with, "but I paid for the game..." yata yata yata, well so did literally a million other folk and Bioware have the tough challenge of figuring out which parts to cater to when and in what balance for the whole community.

 

To the people saying that ever other mmo launching similarly is not an excuse, stop for two seconds and consider why every other mmo launching has had the same problem? Could it be every company rushing for a money grap? No, blizzard don't do that and launch a game when they believe its ready. Could it be inherent difficulties in detecting bugs in a game with so much maths and interaction at such a diverse level? Could it be that there is no way to test a game to its playable capacity short of having several MILLION beta testers? (If I have to explain to you why this is so difficult to do, you shouldn't really be involved in this debate in the first place).

 

To presume that because a bug is present in its current form in this iteration means that it has been present in all the previous iterations and missed is also rubbish. Sometimes new additions or code cause bad unforeseen interactions or code crossing that leads to new, sometimes trivial bugs, some times large bugs.

 

Yes I admit there will be persistant bugs that have been there since beta, but to pretend you understand why they haven't been fixed or that you have any incite into why they should have been is just entitled. Because the truth is if you were in a position to understand, through work experience or other qualifications, you wouldn't be in this debate in the first place. You'd have rolled your eyes at how narrowly people are looking at it, and moved on to a more thought out thread.

 

A small challange before you flame me, and if you don't do it you are only cheating yourself: Stop and think for a second, about how many different tracked items, interactions, collisions and options this game has for one character. Then admit to yourself that there are a lot more that you haven't thought of, then realise that there are a lot more that you couldn't have thought of because they are hidden / maths / cpu based. Then consider how large the game is and how many of these interactions can happen at once. And then consider how many people play this game on any given day at any given time.

 

****. Will. Go. Wrong.

 

Give them time and they'll sort it out. It might have been reasonably polished to them when they launched it only to find out under extreme capacity circumstances that there is a lot more broken than they realised.

 

I'm not doing a TL: DR. If you didn't read it all, then you are part of the problem with this debate.

this right here is a fanboy who thinks its acceptable that everything aside from the levelling content is almost entirely untested

[MorbidAri]

this right here is a fanboy who thinks its acceptable that everything aside from the levelling content is almost entirely untested

 

Actually they are someone that understand the fundamentals of Software design. Something you obviously have no versing in.

[CHRISGG]

Actually they are someone that understand the fundamentals of Software design. Something you obviously have no versing in.

 

lmfao

 

"let's give the consumer something where next to nothing works correctly this is how you design software"

[Lugh]

lmfao

 

"let's give the consumer something where next to nothing works correctly this is how you design software"

 

95% of the content works correctly.

 

Just because you are fixated on the parts that aren't fixed yet does not make your statement true.

[CastorKrieg]

TL;DR: I'm here for the long haul, Bioware, but at this rate I can't guarantee even my guilds or friends will be. If these bugs in every aspect of endgame aren't fixed before the end of the month I don't see the top guilds renewing, and that bad publicty can trickle down to the masses.

 

Make up your mind. Either you are in this for a long haul, and you understand these things will get fixed, or you are complaining of an MMO not being perfect 3 weeks after launch?

 

End of the month? By the end of the month probably 20% of the players will be level 50. If the evolution of WoW taught you something - hardcore players will not be the focus of developers. No, "bad publicity" because you can't get your uber epics will not result in Joe Average having a blast playing a JEDI or an EVIL SITH to cancel his subscription.

 

Less qq, enjoy the game more. Try a different class. You might just like it.

 

 

this right here is a fanboy who thinks its acceptable that everything aside from the levelling content is almost entirely untested

 

Since probably good 80-85% of players will keep leveling for the next couple of months - I'm pretty sure leveling content should be tested the most. Too bad you rushed to level 50, God forbid you could've had fun with other classes?

Edited January 9, 2012 by CastorKrieg

[the-algebraist]

this right here is a fanboy who thinks its acceptable that everything aside from the levelling content is almost entirely untested

 

Show me anything in my post that says it's acceptable to test nothing but the leveling experience. Anything. What I was actually saying is that your assertion of everything being untested is false. Which, incidentally, it is.

 

You evidently didn't get the point of my post did you? Everything was tested to some degree. Are you going to tell me no one has cleared any of the operation bosses? Are you going to tell me that no one is currently running successful raiding guilds? There are several on my server alone.

 

I'm not a fanboy, I'm just a gamer that likes to think before I spout.

 

lmfao

 

"let's give the consumer something where next to nothing works correctly this is how you design software"

 

Does it take thought on your part to make sure that what you post is as far from reality as possible? Because if it does I commend your dedication. If it doesn't? Why do you insist of posting utter nonsense. I have two accounts, I've reached 50 on one of them, and am just enjoying myself on the other. The game works for the most part. Is everyone happy? No. Is that normal? Yes.

 

This is an argument that says, "Bioware, my tiny little part of the game doesn't work." then someone else says, "Yes it does. But my tiny little part of the game doesn't work." The truth is the experience is different for many people because of a vast amount of things.

 

Stop pigeon holing what is frankly a MASSIVE game and set of content into the tiny most negative bracket you can find.

Edited January 9, 2012 by the-algebraist

[alexanderswtor]

Hahahaha, dude this video made me laugh hard!

 

The current state of those two places is an absolute shambles. The corridor boss is the best though when your just running back and suddenly boom, dead.

 

You should send this to all the reviewing websites and magaines as most of them rated the game without seeing any of the endgame. Certainly wouldnt get the high marks its been getting.

 

Anyways back to randomly jumping around the fleet waiting for them to fix something.

[Ginzuu]

I understood there would be bugs, its a new game after all.

 

Honestly tho it feels like they did very little, if any actual tests on the raid boss encounters.

 

Balls of lightning being invisible and going through levels of the floor on SOA.

Pylon boss locking up and wont reset so you have to reset the instance

Randomly dying in the instance (and even a short while while outside of the instance you have a chance of dying for no reason, WHAT?)

Bonethrasher randomly resets and the way he spawns once you engage him is redicolous, how can you make a boss to spawn in the middle of the room when the entire raid has to click the door and then load into the room + get stunned when you get into the room.

Vendors missing items or the items arent even on-par with what it should be, Rakata weapons being the same level as tionese or columi.

Having 400 + Tionese crystals but only 40ish Commendations?

 

Alot needs to be done, more love needs to be given.

Altho I like it that they are already adding 4 new bosses since we cleared everything on nightmare except for SOA.

[Merraith]

I understood there would be bugs, its a new game after all.

 

Honestly tho it feels like they did very little, if any actual tests on the raid boss encounters.

 

Balls of lightning being invisible and going through levels of the floor on SOA.

Pylon boss locking up and wont reset so you have to reset the instance

Randomly dying in the instance (and even a short while while outside of the instance you have a chance of dying for no reason, WHAT?)

Bonethrasher randomly resets and the way he spawns once you engage him is redicolous, how can you make a boss to spawn in the middle of the room when the entire raid has to click the door and then load into the room + get stunned when you get into the room.

Vendors missing items or the items arent even on-par with what it should be, Rakata weapons being the same level as tionese or columi.

Having 400 + Tionese crystals but only 40ish Commendations?

 

Alot needs to be done, more love needs to be given.

Altho I like it that they are already adding 4 new bosses since we cleared everything on nightmare except for SOA.

 

Bugs in an MMO at release...this is me doing my shocked face. Balls of lightning going invis? We turned on nameplates, easy workaround. Pylons have been discussed to death, and the consensus has found a workaround again that seems to work nearly every time with no issues. Yeah, I've randomly died in an instance too, but it's never a durability death and it costs me all of 10 seconds for someone to stop and rezz me, it'll get fixed. Our guild found a nice workaround for the Bonethrasher stuff, you can too.

 

Obviously the Rakata weapons need to get fixed, and I'm sure they are working on it. We're dealing with some of our offhands being crap from it, but it's a bug...deal with it. Agreed about the crystals v. comms...but then again, it's Tionese so I stopped caring when normal mode ops dropped Columi gear.

[WikiWeasel]

remember in wow when ragnaros was bugged and unkillable? although we managed to kill him once when he bugged out. what about cthun and ouro in aq40 who were unkillable for over 2 months.

 

ofc you don't remember, you started playing playing wow in tbc or wotlk when game was more polished. give BW some time.

Edited January 9, 2012 by WikiWeasel

[CHRISGG]

Show me anything in my post that says it's acceptable to test nothing but the leveling experience. Anything. What I was actually saying is that your assertion of everything being untested is false. Which, incidentally, it is.

 

You evidently didn't get the point of my post did you? Everything was tested to some degree. Are you going to tell me no one has cleared any of the operation bosses? Are you going to tell me that no one is currently running successful raiding guilds? There are several on my server alone.

 

I'm not a fanboy, I'm just a gamer that likes to think before I spout.

 

 

 

Does it take thought on your part to make sure that what you post is as far from reality as possible? Because if it does I commend your dedication. If it doesn't? Why do you insist of posting utter nonsense. I have two accounts, I've reached 50 on one of them, and am just enjoying myself on the other. The game works for the most part. Is everyone happy? No. Is that normal? Yes.

 

This is an argument that says, "Bioware, my tiny little part of the game doesn't work." then someone else says, "Yes it does. But my tiny little part of the game doesn't work." The truth is the experience is different for many people because of a vast amount of things.

 

Stop pigeon holing what is frankly a MASSIVE game and set of content into the tiny most negative bracket you can find.

 

TINY LITTLE PART? Do you think i'm JUST talking about the raiding? Raiding is just the start of it kid.

Edited January 9, 2012 by LexiCazam
Insult

[Miathan]

It could have launched with two, perfect four man flash points, no ops, and no hardmodes.

 

What would have people complained about then?

 

I wish that was the case... I was really dissapointed when I saw they already put effort into releasing a new flashpoint this week, instead of fixing what they have. If it goes the same way as RIFT, as in lots of content but with lots of bugs, I'll be gone here fast.

 

MMO companies need to realize that quality > quantity.

[the-algebraist]

TINY LITTLE PART? Do you think i'm JUST talking about the raiding? Raiding is just the start of it kid.

 

No, I do not think you are talking specifically about only raiding. I'm just addressing only the parts that you mentioned, which is called not making assumptions.

 

Something you are good at. You can't even guess at my age, so why bother other than to be a condescending troll.

 

Partially my fault for feeding you in the first place I suppose. I give up, think what you want, you obviously aren't open to any sort of sensible conversation.

Edited January 9, 2012 by LexiCazam
Insult - quote

[Winterds]

TL;DR at the bottom.

 

http://i.imgur.com/iwrD9.jpg

 

I couldn't even loot the legs assigned to me today. It just said "Access Denied." What is the point of raiding if I can't reliably obtain loot?

 

Here is a video by Faction that shows some bugs every raiding guild has run into by now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwHIWClqr_o.

 

And here is another minor example: http://i.imgur.com/LjkXc.jpg

 

Look at the mobs' names. Boss Beast 1. It's funny, and to some it may seem silly. But it does have one big, although subtle meaning: It shows that this part of the game — hard mode Karagga's Palace — was likely not tested once. Bioware didn't even test the raid once to notice that the mobs have to be renamed to "Ugly Dog" before going live.

 

Then there's the fact that the boss itself seems unpolished. It has what is supposedly a cone AOE, only it randomly hits people behind him.

 

It also has a problem with how it spawns. It spawns in the middle of the room, which is where players load into when they click on the door to his room. That, combined with his cone AOE, can lead to some random deaths just because Bioware did not notice or could not take the time to reposition the boss's spawn. This can be fixed by resetting the entire instance, but then players have to clear the raid's trash packs again.

 

The problem is it's just not this raid that is bugged. There are bugs and serious flaws elsewhere. In the Eternity Vault raid the third boss — the puzzle boss — randomly breaks. Same thing with the fourth boss — the 1V1 x8 or x16 boss. Then flashpoints, especially hard-mode flashpoints, are constantly overtuned, badly designed (requiring a knockback when a good amount of groups may not have a class with a knockback), or flat-out broken and buggy. Loot randomly doesn't work in both raids and flashpoints. Raids and flashpoints randomly have to be reset after wipes because players can't zone in, forcing the raid or group to clear trash all over again.

 

In the PVP front queues randomly break for literally hours on end. Ilum has no incentive for actual conflict. Thanks to player exploits Outlaw's Den has lost the only incentive it used to have outside of very rare chest spawns: great crafting mats in a small space. Some people can't even PVP due to serious FPS issues that have nothing to do with bad computers.

 

Then there's the gameplay and UI problems, like ability delay, which is sometimes intentional; the lack of UI modification; and the total lack of target of target (huge deal).

 

I know, I know. Most people are not at endgame. That is completely accurate, and I can understand the position.

 

Here is the problem: This is the kind of stuff that gives bad word of mouth, especially when it's all put together. There isn't a single aspect of the endgame that isn't unpolished or bugged, and that puts a bad taste in top players' mouths. If the top guilds and players are complaining about the game being a buggy mess at endgame that only discourages the casual, low-level players from working up. After all, why would they level up and work up to what is essentially a buggy mess?

 

TL;DR: I'm here for the long haul, Bioware, but at this rate I can't guarantee even my guilds or friends will be. If these bugs in every aspect of endgame aren't fixed before the end of the month I don't see the top guilds renewing, and that bad publicty can trickle down to the masses.

 

I already quit. This game is nowhere near for endgame.

Maybe in 6 months! But by then Diablo 3 will be out so there is no point. Waste of $60 bucks ><

[Winterds]

Why do people keep bringing up WOW and whatnot? Who cares? I don't think a lot of people would want to play a broken, buggy, unpolished game, even if it was WOW, today. That's all that matters. I don't care what other MMORPGs are like or how they have dealt with problems. I simply want the product I bought to be up to some pretty reasonable expectations. I don't think asking a game to consistently work is asking for too much.

 

Also, the excuse that they'll be updating Karagga's Palace in a month doesn't really work because even Eternity Vault is hugely broken. Once again I'd like to point out the third boss is broken. It literally does not work and gets stuck a majority of the time. Just to be clear, that is not an exaggeration; I mean that if players get eight "attempts" on the boss over four will have to be reset due to the boss getting stuck. Some guilds have reported having to reset the instance eight times in a row for it to work.

 

Plus, I even listed examples that don't involve raiding.

 

Please there are always those who will blindly defend the wrong just because.

 

They do not realize some of us expected the game to be playable until past 50. There is no mention on the damn box saying "SORRY BUT ONCE YOU REACH LEVEL 50 YOU MUST RE-ROLL BECAUSE WE DIDN'T FINISH THE GAME LOL".

[Mattlex]

Just my 2 pence

 

1) IGN scored it a 9.0 which is pretty awesome for a launch MMO so I wouldn't worry too much about bugs giving it a bad rep, they'll get round to fixing them eventually.

 

2) Though i'm not comparing games here i'm just appreciative that it has lived up to the hype and all those awards (which most were before it was even released)

Just be glad this was no FFXIV launch! I would have cried if it was that much fail so a few bugs I can wait for

[Winterds]

Just my 2 pence

 

1) IGN scored it a 9.0 which is pretty awesome for a launch MMO so I wouldn't worry too much about bugs giving it a bad rep, they'll get round to fixing them eventually.

 

2) Though i'm not comparing games here i'm just appreciative that it has lived up to the hype and all those awards (which most were before it was even released)

Just be glad this was no FFXIV launch! I would have cried if it was that much fail so a few bugs I can wait for

 

 

You should never ever decide to play an MMO based on site reviews, they did not play the game, they play it for 30 minutes and say it's awesome. Go look for reviews of every failed MMO out there and you will see that they all got good reviews.

 

You listen to the Beta Testers and i remember reading quite a few bad things about this game in the beta forum but i wanted to see it for myself.... guess what... beta testers were not wrong.

[Idyll]

I think we all have experienced bugs in all sorts of ways. I don't really care, because in my opinion the game is surprisingly well done despite its flaws. As many others have mentioned, there will be a major patch or two which will focus on the errors.

[PaintOnASign]

Look at us, having an adult discussion about things we're experts at thus making our opinions and expectations valid.

[thejumpingsheep]

Seriously guys... its a huge MMO and only a few weeks old. Need I remind you that the biggest MMO in history launched with NO END GAME CONTENT... WoW on release was still developing their end game stuff when the game launched and told us so at launch. It wasnt a big deal because they released a couple of things a few weeks later but the game was so broken the 1st 3 weeks it didnt matter (lag made it unplayable and you couldnt even loot things during peak hours).

 

Give them a break. The team needs to make money to keep producing. The more the make the better the game will become. That said, the more pressing issue should be economy (we basically dont have 1) and things that factor into it like tradeskills and such. I have no doubt that they will provide more end game content, fix bugs and make the game function better all round but the economy may not be salvageable given the current mechanics.

[Strikingone]

The guy speaks the truth lol, me and a number of people i have been playing and raiding with have encountered a number of bugs and glitchs/poor design like the aove mentioned Kargas plalace, 3rd boss in EV HM we beat our heads off our desks for four hours one night and then last night we magically one shot it, (because we could actually click the frigging things).

Not to mention the bugs playing your own class, such as me playing an arsenal merc, casting unload some times, usually my rotation of mashing buttons, some times (alot of times) i click it when the gcd is coming off and it "casts: i channel it but nothing comes out. Class quest for dark side BH's not being finished for weeks after release....

 

Now i give them credit, they are after fixing numerous bugs some I have reported and i'm glad to see, but most of these were when I was lvling up, and most were in the pre play release period, now that i've been 50 for two weeks or more, and having dealt with bugs, problems etc lvling up including being stuck on taris for a day (log in, get kicked out over and over, later hot fixed). I'm tired of the ****, numerous problems have been reported before i've sent them in, but they seem to be taking them time.

 

I love it when people say cut them a break its been out X long. Sorry to say there getting money monthly now for running the game, adding content and making sure i'm having a enjoyable time. I love the game, but I won't defend it when its apparent they didn't do there research or just got lazy.

 

Wow did not have this many problems at launch i'm sorry, to anyone who says that. After playing EQ for six years wow fixed or improved on every aspect of EQ i hated, such as GY's when you die, ( no more corpse runs, in fear that you would lose your gear). Every class being able to solo lvl and a million other things i can include in my wall of txt. Its just that Mmo's are a industry now, a multi-million dollar industry and certain things other games implement should almost be mandatory or industry setting for any new mmo EVER to come out. IE guild banks, its a MMO! You want people to be in guilds and interact help each other out. A LFG system that works, it doesn't have to be a dungeon que finder, but something at least to find people in a organized manner by hard mode or dungeon/quest they want to do, and across planets.....Fing rediculous, AH blows too, not being able to search specific items.....not autostacking your crafting mats from your bag to your bank.....come on this **** is basic..... the game has a bright future....endless room for expansion and ideas hire some more frigging people now that your racking inthe cash and get this **** on the roll.... excuse my spelling and engrish... its pretty bad

[LordArioc]

Our first run against Soa, we wiped a bunch towards the end. Decided to give it a couple days so DPS could gear up a bit.

Next morning I log in, fly back from the Shadow, walk around the promenade a bit, and suddenly drop dead.

Lulz.

[Yummymango]

Our first run against Soa, we wiped a bunch towards the end. Decided to give it a couple days so DPS could gear up a bit.

Next morning I log in, fly back from the Shadow, walk around the promenade a bit, and suddenly drop dead.

Lulz.

^ This. Our teammates died randomly. We are just waiting for other players and suddenly people start dying.

After 1 wipe at 2nd oss in EV, suddenly we found that our speeders were no more available and trash was reset!

 

Funny lots of people are comparing it to launch of other MMos. Who cares?

Why BW should also launch a buggy game? And cant they even make 1 raid bug free at launch. Seriously!

 

Yesterday we were not able to complete hard mode EV because that third boss was bugged. I mean ***! Same goes with the hard mode Bonethrasher (similar things that OP mentioned).

 

No matter what people say or what excuses BW gives but it is not acceptable. They could have even released few bosses at a time and opened new wings over time.

 

 

Just FYI Rift was WAY more polished game at launch and honestly BW can learn so many good things from Rift like their custom UI, Raid frames, LFG system, Guild system, Guild perks, A proper Auction house, Server forums, Search function on forums etc.

 

Only those people are saying that "Wait bro, things will be fixed with time" who are not raiding yet.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Yummymango