Darth_Philar
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Posts posted by Darth_Philar
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Would you consider offering an alternative to your current Character versus Character warzones? Specifically, true Player versus Player where all players are given a base stat value and gear has no impact?
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Hit 60 valor, champion bags and warzone/merc commendations are worthless to me now. Dont even know what to spend them on. No point in warzone pvp only for 3 matches for daily and 9 for weekly to get battlemaster bags which are RNG. GG.
World pvp is out the window, there are always 20+ people playing Imp go round on Ilum and when we do form an OP group to take back ilum, even more show up and extremely out numbered which results to them standing outside our base and we pull each other to death. How fun.
All thats left is getting Rakata gear. Probably unsub when that happens, there will be no reason to pve.
Let me get this straight, you openly acknowledge that you are so devoid of mental activity that the only way a developer can get you to PvP is to offer a never ending "carrot on a stick" platform in order to keep you paying them?
Seems like the whiners are getting pretty desperate.
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i/ve played both a sorc and a sage and i can see the difference in a sec. Telekinec throw hits for 400-500 per tic. Lightinhg strikee 1k. If you think i'm ignorant then you try both class and come back and tell me differently
First, I'm assuming you meant Force Lightning in order to compare similar abilities.
Second, Force Lightning hits for 400-500 per tick.
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A healer demanding that you protect or peel for them is not arrogance, it is common sense.
Your healer isn't doing you any good unless he is alive. Letting your healer get rolled is a pretty big clue that you just suck at organized PvP.
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I've found that most player don't even know that the side speeders are fast or that they take you to the side points.
Nine times out of ten I watch people take the slow middle speeder even when we have a fast speeder available (hint, taking the fast speeder and running to middle or the other side is FASTER than taking the middle speeder).
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I support this change. Make the daily require 6 completions with a bonus for any wins.
This will help stop warzone dropping and will also promote more players queuing up which lowers overall queue times.
Win-Win
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Have you ever PVPed?
Let's assume gear is the same for everyone.
Stats are the same for everyone.
Everyone is the same class.
PVP is still not skill based. It's numbers based. The pre-made group with vent kills the pick up group.
The mob of 10 kills the mob of 5.
If you want "skill based pvp" take off all your gear and dual. WZ are not skilled based PVP. They are a fun mini-game.
The premade with vent is using their skill to win. They play with each other more often and so they know each other's skills and can rely on each other. That is the whole entire point of being in a team-based competition.
Your 10 on 5 argument is irrelevant. No one should expect to win unless they hold a tactical or strategic advantage that outweighs the logistical disadvantage that comes from having half as many people. The software is supposed to balance out the teams, but the fact that it doesn't always work correctly does not make your point valid as it is an error, not a function.
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But then you are not pvping with your char.
You might as well call it jedi #1023892
WHO THE HELL WANTS TO PLAY THAT GAME
PvP fans want to play that game.
You don't, they do. Conflict!
You can't balance the two because they are mutually exclusive and any attempts wind up being an unplayable, unbalanced mess.
I would be happy if Bioware just stopped calling it PvP and correctly called it CvC.
I would be estatic if they introduced a separate metagame that was actual PvP and kept the CvC in as well.
Three games in one:
PvE = Your character killing mobs
CvC = Your character killing mobs controlled by other players
PvP = Your skill competing against other player's skill
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But you are wrong, there is nothing wrong with it, skill is a factor and gear is a factor......if you take away gear being a factor then you reduce the power that one char. can have.....
You effectively destroy a huge part of the math equation, all of a sudden everyone's attack hits for 2500, instead of this guy gets 3500 from that attack forcing the other person to adjust his strategy........
And if everyone is the same then pvp becomes....a trade off between abilities. Trying to take on more than one opponent becomes close to impossible since gear wont give you the burst needed to kill 1 of the 2-3 enemies during your cc duration.
I guess what im trying to say is you cant become a hero if you remove gear from the equation and make things equal. Essentially if your fighting someone 1v1 and they get aid while you dont, you will NEVER have the tools to overcome the situation.
Alot of pvper's dont need the gear for lack of skill, the gear is there to create gaps so you can overcome odds that normally would leave you dead. It still takes skill regardless of gear to win 1v3, cc's have to be timed, snares used, defensive cd's timed perfectly, knowing which stun/cc to break, knowing who and when to interupt....there are tons of factors involved that are all on the skill side of it.
Not to mention all melee classes will need a buff if gear becomes less of a factor, burst would decline and melee would be at an even larger disadvantage.....
Again, you are applying a PvE mindset to PvP. You are not supposed to be the all powerful hero in a PvP match, you are supposed to be a member of the team, a grunt.
That is why PvP and CvC fans will never see eye to eye. You want your character's power to determine success while the PvP fan wants his skill to determine success. Since those two sources are opposites, there will never be any agreement on a "PvP/CvC" system.
A better solution is to add actual PvP to the game and keep the CvC and PvP separate.
In CvC we keep everything pretty much as is, your uber-powerful PvE character can roll over new players with ease because he has better stats. In the PvP game your character would be no better than a level 10 of the same class.
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The pvp isn't fun (Illum, Tat or the 3 WZs). In fact, it's mostly broken. And you are wrong. People need a payoff or they don't participate.
By the same token, you are saying we could remove loot from FPs/Ops and people would still play them for the fun of it....which is a borderline retarded statement.
The payoff in any MMO is prestige.
On the PvE side, better gear and downing raids bestows that prestige.
In PvP, the rewards should not cause the playing field to award statistical advantages. People will PvP for other forms of prestige, like cosmetic gear, titles, mounts, etc.
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Ahh but lets be honest, its not the fault of the playerbase for wanting a working progression system when it was Bioware who decided thats what we would have.
If you put in a progression system, it better work. They have tried to make PvP mirror PvE, if thats the case, make it do so.
Honestly, if they had not removed the blue lvl 50 PvP set this wouldnt even be an issue. I can not understand why they did. At all.
The first step to solving a problem is to identify it.
I have identified the problem as this:
CvC fans want grinding and progression in their CvC
PvP fans want skill, strategy, and tactics in their PvP
CvC fans hate PvP
PvP fans hate CvC
Bioware creates a CvC system and advertises it as PvP
PvP fans are upset and call for changes
Some changes are made and now PvP fans and CvC fans are mad because the result is an unholy abomination that neither side likes.
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Equal Gear : No point in playing if your toon doesn't become stronger than other people's toons.
Equal Skill : The result in PVP is suppose to be determined by a multiple factors, gear being one of them....if you pigeon whole it to just skill then winning 1v2 and 1v3 becomes almost impossible.
Which would remove the incentive to PvP in the first place.I bought this game because it's a mmoRPG, not because I wanted to play CoD.
Here in these two responses do we find the root of the problem.
PvE is about progression and your character getting better.
PvP is about tactics and strategy and your skill getting better.
You folks are PvE players at heart who want your PvE reward scheme to be applied to PvP. You want to grind and progress and you want that grind and progression to pay off by giving you more power than people who have not grinded or progessed as much as you. You want time=power instead of skill=power.
There is NOTHING wrong with that... in PvE.
There is EVERYTHING wrong with that in PvP.
PvP is NEVER an RPG. That is IMPOSSIBLE! If you have RPG in your "PvP" (which this game does), then you do not have PvP, you have CvC.
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If they removed expertise entirely, gear would still be the pre-determining factor.
Somebody in green gear Vs somebody in blues. Somebody in blues Vs purples. Both times its obvious who has the advantage. The real issue with the PvP gear isnt what expertise does, its that gaining it depends entirely on luck.
In a MMO progression is normally gated by time primarily and luck as a secondary factor. In our current PvP system its the reverse and thats why it fails. Make progression more controllable and nobody has a right to complain about expertise because they will have a clear option of gaining it.
Which is why they need to remove gear stats entirely while in Warzones. Problem solved.
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Pvp opinion
in PvP
I say you should have to complete 6 warzones and get a bonus objective of winning 3. -
Negative. Both players will never be equally geared. Both players will never be equally skilled. Both players will never have the same internet connection speeds. Both players may not be playing the same class. Both players will not start attacking each other at the exact same instant and will not use the exact same moves. ****, this game uses stats like Crit and Surge, they're both RNG and luck based... what exactly is so fair about that?
Herp derp go find another bridge to troll under.
I'm going to ignore your flaming and respond to the odd points you made above:
Equal Gear: Is required for actual PvP. Any system that gives one person a statistical advantage over another based on the character is NOT PvP. It is CvC.
Equal Skill: You are right, you cannot enforce equality in skill because that is based on the player, not the game. However, in PvP that is how the result is supposed to be determined. Two players enter, the best player wins.
Internet Connection: While this can be a deciding factor, it is not an intended one. This falls under the same category as a high wind during your stroke in a golf tournament or during your team's field goal attempt. Sure it sucks, but there are only so many things that can be done to mitigate it.
Equal Class: Offering playstyle choices in the form of classes does not remove player skill from the equation, in actually bolsters it in that you are free to choose a class that best suits your skill. However, this is of course a potential negative in that if the classes are not designed well they can create statistical advantages (see Equal Gear above).
Equal Start Time: This is primarily a function of skill and playstyle. A person who is good at PvP will know when to engage first and when to react to an engagement attempt. Starting each engagement at the same time is not a requirement for balanced PvP.
Equal Skill Usage: Knowing when to use an ability is the single most telling facet of a player's skill. Primarily because it requires tactical knowledge of his abilities, your abilities, and what is currently happening.
I think you may not understand my point. PvP is not possible if there are any statistical advantages available to some players but not others. Tactical advantages through playstyle and strategic advantages through team composition are all a part of PvP.
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MMO PvP is NEVER fair. Deal with it noob.
Incorrect. MMO PvP is completely fair.
MMO RPG CvC is NEVER fair.
If we are going to reach an understanding, we have to start using the correct terminology to avoid confusion. Words have meaning people.
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The current Daily Warzone quests require wins to complete.
I suggest that the daily be changed to require full warzone matches played to complete and that wins becomes a bonus objective.
This should provide enough incentive to eliminate a lot of the warzone dropping without the need to put a penalty on those players.
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Caveat Emptor. Perhaps they just expect people to understand what they're getting themselves into when they buy the game. Perhaps that's unfair.
Yes, a degree of responsibility lies with the consumer, but I think that the extremely different sub games that are CvC and PvP (the only similarity is that the player's avatar engages the avatar of other players) demand an honest assessment by the developer of what they have created in order to avoid this type of severe disconnect between perception and reality.
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Semantics. Within the context of an mmo, particularly following the WoWesque format, PvP is always character v character (per your definition.)
Precisely.
It isn't actually PvP which is why there is much confusion.
People who like actual PvP do not like CvC. People who like CvC do not like PvP.
The PvP fans are unhappy when they play CvC that is advertised as PvP and they call for changes. Sometimes those changes are made and the CvC fans are unhappy.
A good start would be for developers to advertise correctly.
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I have played my share of MMOs and this one is fail.
I'm afraid you are going to have to provide quite a bit more than that if you want to be taken seriously.
List them and give examples of them doing a better job of responding to customer complaints.
That would be a good start.
Failure to do so will result in your complaint being seen as the pointless, hyperbolic falsification that it (probably) is.
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this isint logic its the definition the argument that they guy linked to bravo
Unless you have a logical counter or wish to show an actual flaw in my logic your response is useless in a logical debate.
The person who brought up the "No True Scotsman" link was attempting to dismiss the argument. My fully supported argument above shows that this is not a case of a logical fallacy, but rather an actual issue of divergent definitions.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
Every time someone uses a form of the term "not a real PvP'er"...
Facts:
PvP = Player versus Player
Player <> Character
Player <> Gear
Player = Skill (in that skill is the only way the player is reflected in game)
Gear <> Skill
MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online
RPG = Role Playing Game
Character = Gear (in that gear and other stats determine the Character's power)
RPG = Character
If we sift through these facts we can arrive at assumptions that have a logical basis:
Gear is a function of the character, not of the player.
Skill is a function of the player, not of the character.
MMO is not a function of player or character, but player or character can be a function of an MMO.
RPGs rely on Character and therefore gear.
PvP relies on Player and therefore skill.
MMO RPGs rely on Character and therefore gear.
MMO PvP relies on Player and therefore skill.
Therefore, any system that relies on gear is character based and any system that relies on skill is player based.
PvP is supposed to be player based therefore "PvP" that uses gear is not logically PvP but rather Character versus Character (or CvC).
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What they need to do is remove all primary stats from gear while in Warzones, and bolster secondary stats based on the stats you are wearing.
Then gear won't matter at all from a statistical perspective.
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Learn to Feign.
Works wonders in Warzones since most players don't even know what it is.
Sage/Sorc needs a nerf!!
in PvP
Posted