Darth_Philar
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Posts posted by Darth_Philar
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Instead Vanilla WoW had raiders stomping everyone else. Resilience was necessary to prevent that, and was a good idea. However, tying resilience gear to arena rating after Season 2 ruined it.
The idea of the stat itself isn't what ruins PVP, it's always the implementation. It needs to be available easily and quickly to every PVPer, that's all.
Actually, adding more PvE to the CvC was the opposite of what they should have done.
The idea that adding an additional PvE element to PvP will magically make PvP more balanced is completely ludicrous. The only way to balance PvP is to remove ALL of the PvE from it.
Your action bar versus their action bar... may the best usage of skills win.
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For those that think its a bad stat..
It offers an alternate means of progression for those that do not want to raid/do operations
Expertise should maintain a balance between HM operations gear and the best PvP gear.
If expertise were to be eliminated, all the high end guilds that are doing HM operations are going to destroy all the "casuals" that enjoy PvP.
At least everyone that PvP's is able to spend the time and gain this gear and become more and more competitive. People rolling with premades can do this faster than the PUG's rightfully so. And its an even playing field for all. Raiders hopefully wont have a huge gear advantage that gives them a huge "skill" edge.
IMO the best gear for PvP should come from doing PvP. The only way to add progression to PvP is to maybe add a ranking system and valor.
I think adding some expertise to lower level gear would have been better that making a 50's only bracket. This would mitigate that some of the damage they take versus geared 50's.
Any system that has progression is NOT PvP. What we have in SWTOR (and in most other MMOs) is not PvP, it is CvC (Character versus Character). It is little more than a glorified PvE where you kill other characters instead of mobs.
Real PvP exists when all characters are completely equal. Levels are gone, stats are gone, all that exists is your ability bar and your personal knowledge of when to use each ability to strike or counter your opponent.
Since MMOs are played by PvE people, they want their competitive play to be the exact same thing as their non-competitive play, which is always going to be completely broken and unbalanced.
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When I first fired up SWTOR, I was impressed. For a recent launch, it ran fairly smooth with a few bugs but nothing that completely turned me off. They even took a page from Blizzard's playbook - take the competition's good ideas.
Then I hit lvl 50.
- Class mirror imbalance due to the character animations. I got a little annoyed every time my aoe knockback got not only interrupted, but because it is technically an "instant" ability, enterd a full cooldown. But I adjusted and simply learned where and when to use it to minimize that issue. I trucked on.
- Hardmode Flashpoints excited me... until I looted the end boss in the latest lvl 50 hardmode after rolling my face up and down the keyboard wearing pvp gear with a dps spec'd Guardian tanking.
- Finally, the hot topic of world pvp. I was less than thrilled the first time I entered the world pvp area to find Sith and Jedi sipping tea and swapping objectives, but hey... "whan in Rome...". Bioware decides "we got a fix for this" and procedes to strongly encourage playing this zone as intended... with absolutely no mechanic to address possible (more like definite) server faction population imbalances that were well known to a majority of the player base. The results suprized them?
I have no desire to return to Blizzard with my head hung low, so I won't. But I'll be damned if I contribute another penny to the paychecks of a development team that blatantly displays this level of incompetency.
The people who do not "get it" are the people who are complaining about the bugs, exploits, and imbalance.
Do you know what software is? It is TRILLIONS of lines of code that all must work together in order to function. Making a patch is NOT a simple endeavor as the code must be checked, tested, checked again for unintended consequences, and finally deployed.
You WILL get your fixes, it just isn't going to be today or tomorrow. Seriously, for being Jedi you guys sure do lack patience.
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I for one am cancelling my subscription and voting with my wallet if there is going to be no rollback on this.
So you are saying that your enjoyment of past achievements has somehow been damaged through the current achievements of others?
I was under the impression that time travel into the past was impossible, but apparently it is possible and is being used exclusively to ruin the game for you.
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A few free ranks? "Status" symbol of pvp titles? Do you understand how the PvP system in the game is dependent upon gear?
So what you are saying is that there is no PvP system in the game? What we have here is a CvC system (Character versus Character) which is by definition completely unbalanced.
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That's because there is no PvP in most MMOs. Instead we get CvC (which is impossible to balance) and it gets called PvP.
In order to implement true PvP it would need to be done like in Guild Wars where it is essentially a completely different game. No stats from gear, no perks from being a longer player than someone else.
Most "PvPers" don't want that because they don't actually like PvP, they like CvE and they just want some of the mobs replaced with other people's characters.
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This is coming from a Battlemaster imp, I was BM before the patch.
This has to be the worst patch in history of MMO gaming, and than you just tripled how bad it was by not shutting down the servers soon after people were reporting in mass all of the issues.
You clearly show your design and management incompetence when:
A. Rollback has yet to happen or be announced. (-20 MMO points)
B. Showing a clear favoritism to empire not only in design, animations, armor textures, and damage delays. Now it looks like the ones who abused it (empire) in 1.1, will not be getting their rollback. Clear Favoritism. Making a patch to force fighting but not fixing imbalance issues. Clear Favoritism. (-50 MMO points)
C. Making a world pvp map with large scale battles in mind on an engine that doesn't support over 15-20 vs 15-20. (-10 MMO points)
D. RNG bags and bugged RNG. People with 40+ bags and 2 pieces only of duplicate gear?
E. Most imbalance classes seen in an mmo at launch TO DATE. A 500 expertise tank getting killed in 3-4 seconds by a 45 operative? Shouldn't matter if it was a tank or any class for that matter, I have never played any mmo that failed that much. Everybody knows people like to see BIG numbers when it comes to a damage hit or healing hit, and people like fights that last a good amount of time. NO IT IS NOT JUST BIOCHEM.
(-20 MMO Points)
F. Still no rollback? Ive been writing this thread for over a couple hours, one tid-bit at a time. /fail.
G. Screwing up the que times just to satisfy the altaholics, and the slow levelers. Im not getting reports that the que times are not only 5x longer since the patch but reversed. As in republic are now waiting in que MUCH longer than imps... this could obviously be that most of the repubs were getting farmed on illum.. but still. (-10 MMO points)
E. Not listening to the community that relayed 80% of the present issues to you in BETA!.
(-20 MMO points)
Unfortunately, you can't get any positive points since everything that is good about this game was taken from other games.
To put things in perspective, there is more fail in just the Hunter class in WoW than in this entire game.
Have patience, your issues (few as they may be) will be solved. No sense blowing a blood vessel.
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I really don't understand why so many people are upset about this... they must have been suffering from the delusion that there would be balance in CvC which is impossible.
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It seems that a lot of people (including the developers at BW) are missing a very important point: PvE is an MMORPG, PvP is just MMO and should not have any RPG elements in it at all. First and foremost, PvE is a misnomer. In an RPG it is never player versus anything, it is character versus environment or CvE. Secondly, PvP stands for Player versus Player. I know that some of you are confused, but you are the player. The character is not. Therefore in Player versus Player it is supposed to be your skill versus the skill of another person. Third, what we have in SWTOR and WOW and other similar games is CvC or Character versus Character. It is completely unbalanced and 100% impossible to balance. Therefore, if you want actual PvP in SWTOR then you will ask BW to remove all stats from gear in Warzones. By removing all forms of progression from your character, you make the character a representation of your skill and can achieve actual PvP.
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You can very easily have an MMO that does PvE and PvP. The trick is to realize that PvE is an RPG and PvP is not.
Once you understand this, you will realize that a well designed PvP subgame should be about Player versus Player, not Player versus Gear or Player versus Character.
The solution to MMO PvP is not to add more PvE elements (all PvP stats are PvP in name only, they are still at stat and therefore a PvE element), but to remove all PvE elements.
When your character enters a PvP zone, your gear's stats should be wiped and replaced with a standard stat set for your class/spec. The length of time you live should be based on your ability to play, not on your character's stats. Likewise, your ability to kill an opponent should be based on your ability to play, not on your character's stats.
All PvP that relies on stats is innately broken.
Everyone who is upset is right to be mad, PvP is broken. However, you aren't going to ever get a resolution until you start getting mad at the root of the problem instead of the symptoms.
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What's the benefit of reaching level 60 valor?
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Agree
People go biochem because that way they dont have to spend money getting any reusable medpacks or anything
After i hit lvl30/35 (cant remember) and made my first reusable i never ever spent money on medpacks and before i was spending 20k on every planet
Reusable medpacks should be usable by anyone not just biochemist, like implants imo
Cheers
Wow... that's a lot of credits for medpacks.
I am level 34 with my main (Sith Inq) and I have used a grand total of 2 medpacks (one on Korriban during the Blood Pool quest and the other one when I fought that Sith Lord on Nar Shadaa). I have never purchased one and usually wind up vendoring a ton of them once I outlevel them. If other classes are really having that hard a time surviving that they are willing to spend that kind of money per planet I think I may have to roll and alt and start selling medpacks!
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Am I correct when I infer that many players here have so associated their self-worth with the arbitrary acquisition of digital tokens in a system they themselves profess to be broken that the perceived superior acquisition of these same digital tokens by another renders their opinion of their own accomplishments moot?
I find it somewhat disturbing that in a country that spends more time teaching "self-confidence" than it does mathematics, people still manage to believe that a change in the rate of fictional measurements has somehow harmed them.
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Who is going to make me 3000 medpacks a week?
Because mods for non-mod making classes don't need to be re-added EVERY 90 SECONDS!!!
I think you're failing to understand entirely. You want lightsaber hilts to be consumable every 90 seconds? And ONLY Artifice players can have a permanent hilt? Fine.
That'd be functionally equivalent to the advantage that BioChem currently has.
Maybe your group needs a better healer? That seems like an awful lot of medpacs.
A better analogy than your 90 second one would be that only people who can make mods can remove them from gear intact (making them reusable). Everyone else must simply destroy them when they want to add a new one.
I still don't see what the issue is, medpacks are a consumable and as such will always be in demand. Static items like armor, mods, and weapons will only ever be profitable when a new tier of content first deploys, so yeah, lots of people are going to choose to take the consumable route for a steady stream of income. The fact that it also has a nice perk that saves some money for the player in question really doesn't seem like that big of a deal.
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I have no intention of cancelling at this time. After having played WoW for so long, I have come to appreciate that Bioware is at least attempting to fix things and it taking less than 2-3 years to do so.
If you are really upset enough about a bug in a MMO that is only 2 months old that you are actually going to cancel your account then perhaps this type of game isn't for you. Of course, it is always possible that you are simply a sycophant of another developer who is making such a large fuss in a pathetic attempt to generate negativity because you somehow believe that someone else's failures will translate into your favored developer's success. Who's to say?
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I'm really failing to see what the issue is...
If you aren't Biochem you buy medpacks or your guild's Bichem guy makes you a bunch for your raid. If you are Biochem you make a single medpack and reuse it which simply removes the hassle of making lots of them.
I don't see anyone complaining about being able to reuse those nifty modifications on their weapons and armor.
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Am I the only one who thinks more skilled and more experianced players are entitiled to the best gear, which they worked for.
In roman times, a celebrated gladiator usually was decked out in high quality and sturdy armor. The new comers were still earning that armor.
Can you imagine if a new gladiator asked the champion to take off his armor so it would be a fair fight? The champion would laugh and chop his head off.
This type of game design isn't implementing a completely level playing field every single match, which does affect it's esport potential. But I like the journey to the top. If you don't want to put in the match time, then don't. Games in general have been watered down because of your mindset.
What kind of "skilled" and "experienced" player actually wants to cowardly hide behind his gear instead of showcasing his impressive skill on a level playing field?
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The absolute simplest solution is to remove all stats from gear while in Warzones and give all players a set of base stats that can only be boosted with on use items.
This is Player versus Player, not Character versus Character.
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Your laziness shows in the quality of your insults.
Fact is, pvp is not separate in this game and I'm sorry you didn't feel that you needed to put the effort into doing any research before you bought it. Pvp in this game, like virtually every other MMORPG is an addition, enjoy.
To clarify, since you're apparently very confused - IF I want to play a pvp game I'll play one designed solely for that purpose. I also do not particularly enjoy grinding for anything... levels, gear, pvp or pve. I did not expect SWTOR to break the mold and I'm fine with that.
So you are OK with an inferior design because you expected it to be inferior.
That argument works for some people, but not for others.
As a paying customer, it is your right to ask for improvement and changes that make the product you are paying for better. You choose to simply accept it as is and that is fine, but that does not make your pathetic attempts to rationalize your cognative dissonance any less pathetic or any more logical.
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Call of Duty, Modern Warfare, League of Legends... you're doing it wrong, you should be charging $15 a month.
I'm beginning to suspect that you may be an executive at a game publishing company who only wants to defend the broken system that promotes grinding because your games all have subscription fees...
That is pretty much the only logical conclusion, outside of you just being a terrible PvPer who relies on gear advantages to supplement your lack of skill.
Fact is, PvP is a completely separate game from the actual MMO and should be treated as such by both the developer and the player. If you cannot see that then you are exactly the kind of robotic grinder that publishers make bank off of.
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So wait, some gear upgrades are ok and lvl 10s should be on equal footing to 50s? Did you mistakenly buy the wrong game?
Again, you seem to be confused. In PvP it is supposed to be about the player, not the character.
Also, I should probably point out that of all the games mentioned so far, only GW has been used in actual tournament play because they correctly normalized PvP by removing the PvE from it.
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I'm missing the point? I don't think they're going to remove PVP so... it's an gear based RPG game with PVP. Everything you just said also applies to PVE, but gear is ok there?
I'm still waiting for someone to explain away gear upgrades in Call of Duty and Modern Warfare.
PvE is all about advancing your character. This includes gear.
PvP is all about using your skill to overcome the skill of other players. Gear should have no impact.
The game unfortunately allows gear to have an impact which causes PvP players to be upset. In a failed attempt to make the PvP players happy, the developers add another PvE element and call it a PvP stat. The PvP stat now makes the gear imbalance even worse.
The solution to PvP is not to add more PvE to it. The solution to PvP is to remove PvE from it.
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Or you play a game where gear is never a factor. Sorry, but I'm not going to have my time and effort nullified. That being said (I'll repeat) the gear doesn't have to be pvp specific, I think the gear could be the same as pve gear you'd just have 2 choices on how to obtain it.
You are missing the point. There is nothing even remotely RPGish about PvP. Ever.
By trying to combine RPG elements with PvP you get a system that is innately broken. Developers then try to fix the broken system with a PvP stat that doesn't work and creates a massive imbalance between new characters and old characters, (notice I said characters, not players).
You are approaching PvP from an RPG perspective where your time spent has meaning. In PvP, Time Spent should mean absolutely nothing as it is supposed to be about working as a team, correct reactions, and player skill. Once you realize that PvP is a completely distinct game from PvE, you will recognize the facts above as being true statements that need to be corrected.
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/start thread again
Why can't you have the gear and skill?
It's been stated before but PvP needs gear to match the PvE gear other wise the PvE'ers would own PvP. You can't have the PvP gear be as good as the PvE gear because then the PvPers could roll over the PvE content, so that is how you get the magic stat that makes PvP gear not as good as PvE gear in PvE situations but better than PvE gear in PvP situations.
Also, now that I think about it, why can't a person have neither gear or skill?
Or you implement PvP the correct way and ignore the stats on ALL gear in Warzones. All classes are given base stats for their class and can use PvP-specific Stims to boost whatever stat their playstyle relies upon.
The only arguments against this are:
1. No grind, so bad for subscription renewals
2. No stat crutch for bad players, which will force them to either give up or get better.
Why we need expertise..
in PvP
Posted
It's a trap!
PvP is not an RPG. It can't be because you are right, RPGs are about the Character while PvP is about the Player.
The problem is that most people (including developers) fall for the trap and try to implement PvP within the RPG structure of the game. What smart people would be doing is recognizing that the two concepts (PvP and RPG) are completely incompatible and would develop a functional sub-game (game within the game) that strips the RPG elements from PvP.