Having a Warzone like an Alterac Valley would be very good way to tie people over until hopefully forts/siege type stuff was brought in, for those that like the bigger scale stuff. It's why I wasn't particularly happy with yet another 8 v 8 WZ in 1.2 as far as variety goes and hasn't got me nearly as excited as I would have been, needed something at least a full ops, bigger map and different objective type

Yeah I have had some high heal games with little or no votes, then an ordinary game with less heals for whatever reason, but must have had people that like to thank healers and thus got more votes. Premades are a problem when it comes to MVP votes, voting for your friends or guild mates whether it was deserved or not and does reduce the value of the MVP idea, even in some premades I did this happened ( mostly solo queued though ), however as a healer, when I was guarded by someone outside the premade, I did give them the vote most times, it's wrong to do otherwise. I can see how having the other side do the voting would at least stop voting amongst friends and guilds, those that are guilty of this though won't like this change.

Not true, As I have said in other threads on this matter, it needs improvement as the below shows. When you are on the end of CC to get a full resolve bar, get more CC while at full resolve and while being choked with a full resolve bar, you are watching your resolve bar actually then decline mid choke, you ask yourself, is this as intended, did it really help me not get chained ? The only ones who think that is fine are those that want easy kills, the other person not able to fight back... Improvements needed as follows, some idea I have seen in other threads : 1. As soon as your resolve hits full, any CC ends straight away or 1 second after hitting full at most and your immunity starts. 2. When at full resolve, it stays a little longer before it starts to drop 3. It drops at a slower rate 4. More types of CC fill the resolve End result, less chain CC, less stun lock deaths and more time in immunity, more enjoyment and less frustration I think you are likely to get more CC too much threads than people complain about not enough

To fit in with the going current theme... It's all the healers fault...

I wouldn't say lack of participation, participation is always high at one point and for a while, it's the slow reaction by devs to listen to it's playing base and make requested improvements, to keep that participation high. Take Warhammer, participation was not a problem at all, multiple warbands all working together, guilds and the alliance system also helping in coordinating the effort, was a fantastic community on my server Ironclaw, the best in any mmo I have played. But it was other factors that lead to it's eventual downfall, wasn't that the PvP in itself wasn't fun or the type of PvP ie forts and stuff and the city raid reward. Take the city raids as reward, that was a great idea and fitting, but where were all the seige equipment etc, had they went further and had stuff like walls surrounding the city, attackers can use ladders, trebuchets to make breaches etc and then once you brake through, just an idea, you have to get to a mark in the map to be a successful city take, but defences and defending along the way so you could still be stopped, all PvP. Defenders also have defences to shoot at the attackers outside the city, oil and fire dropped from the walls, spikes in the ground outside the walls that are unseen before you step on them and do a lot of damage and are randomly moved every 24hrs or so ( or could be player placed for more thought, with a certain limit allowed ), spikes also sticking up which players can be killed by if knocked off the wall/ladder and unlucky to land on, machinery that can be manned and fired from certain strategic points on the city walls etc, Maybe limited to a certain amount, but players themselves can decide where to create and place them ( have extra mount points around the wall for this ), more thought proccess and depending upon where the main attack is from, whatever side is being hit hardest, lots of moves and counter moves by both sides, to help promote attacks on multiple fronts and coordination by teams. Also consequences, like after a successful raid, the losing sides city hasn't miraculously fixed itself, your side has to do stuff to fix it and the defences before the city is raided again, by collecting stuff off deafeted enemy players and handing in, a bit like alterac valley, just a suggestion, but that promotes more fighting/killing and more team play, pride in your side and city. Or it could also be that the each side has little outposts around maps and taking and destroying an enemy outpost is how you rebuild your city, you loot the rubble, that would help promote smaller fights in multiple places, for those who like that more than a zerg. The above just an idea that jumped into my head while writing this, so not a lot of thought, but for an example. Also class balance and pop balance etc a problem, pop balance is at least partly the fault of the players though, even before a game is launched you can at least get an idea of the pop balance situation, but only some decide to roll the lesser pop to help balance. Obviously you need to have some buffs for the lower pop once the game launches, depending upon the disparity amount at the time, if the same side keeps getting rolled, that will lead to lost subs eventually. Other important things like performance issues, you can't have a slide show when things get crowded, more effort needs to be put into this area before a game launches, make the right decisions and don't skimp on the engine choice etc, while I know little abot that subject, I have seen threads about it. Of course people do have different ideas of what PvP is to them, favourite types, so not everyone will be happy, but things can be added. Myself, as I have said in the thread already, I enjoy big scale PvP that goes for hours and teamwork/organisation on that same scale, don't care about arenas and who is the best individual or small group, and I really enjoyed Warhammer with forts and city raids as reward, it could have been a fantastic game, what could have been I really enjoyed late night forts, smaller numbers with a warband versus a warband and a half, very intense and you knew your spot in the tank wall was important, you die and it could play a part in the tank wall breaking on the stairs. Those that did have the tank wall break for whatever reason, like not enough to form a decent wall or a couple tanks died, lead to little skirmishes on the multiple levels of the fort, was so much enjoyment when your skirmish with a few others on both sides was won, then moving on to help other little battles and eventually routing the other team, against the odds. I would love TOR to have what I suggested, forts replaced with Temples etc, put the SW spin on it, it would win back and keep many subs, as long as it was done right and the game performance improved to help it succeed.

Personally I think once your Resolve hits full, any CC that you are effected by at the time should end straight away or maybe no longer than a second after you hit full and your immunity starts. Also as I have seen another say in a different thread on this subject, add more CC to the list that effects resolve, stay at full resolve for a little longer and slow down the rate at which it drops. No Resolve bar dropping while in the middle of a CC like a choke is how it should be...

The way I see it is this, we don't have an escape ability, in combat sprint, we don't have an interrupt, our shield is worse than Sages, our aoe heal is far weaker than Sages, no good hot's and until recently we were the only healing class to not have an in combat res and to top it off our strength is burst cast time heals on a single target, but that is vulnerable when it comes to interrupts of all kinds in PvP and burst now will lead to ammo problems more often. We would be the most easily shut down healer of all three as you were near enough saying. What do we have that counters all those, well we have to have some things whether the BW devs or other heal classes like it or not, heavy armour is one, but that doesn't even play a part in some damage types, which I find strange, it doesn't play that great a part compared to all the stuff we lose. Best single target heals, but that is also the worst effected when it comes to interrupts, instant cast times aren't effected. It's why I find the strength of the nerfs surprising to say the least, we are weak in many areas, missing many things others have and had one of our only a few strengths heavily hit, burst single target healing, sure we can still do it, but we will be out of ammo quickly now. On another topic, it seems a lot of complaints about healing being too much in PvP, is often when too many healers were in the same Warzone and thus unkillable with cross heals, 5 for example on a side or in premades, these are NOT the healers fault and DOESN'T make them op in itself. Limit the number of healers allowed in a WZ to 2 or 3, instantly that drops the amount of heals and increases dps, both gains in favour of dps. With premades of course healers are going to be hard to kill, that is what good teammates do, protect them as best they can. Nerfs need to hit more areas than just the healer, you can't blame just the healer and just nerf them, more moderate nerfs to healers was needed and take from other areas, like lower the guard amount little, less healers also helps here too, but it's just mainly good team play. Stop allowing pug v premade matches would also help a lot with warzone team balance, keep it purely pug v pug ( no more than a group of two can enter into pug teams ) On to some of the nerfs... 1. Trauma Probe While I agree Trauma prob should now be able to be cast on multiple people, with a moderate buff to the heal amount as an idea, I don't agree with it lasting only 30 seconds at all. I only used it myself because it was free and was able to move it around in mid battle depending upon who needed it most, that ability is now gone and Trauma probe as it stands will NOT be taken by me for PvP, it's dead. Moving it to last only 30 seconds will mean you have to renew it and thus use ammo far too often and when taking into account we want to cast it on multiple people, that is 16 ammo every 30 seconds if you buff the whole Warzone team, it's a far worse ammo management nerf than what it already got even. To justify the nerf, rather than allow it to be cast on as an unlimited amount of people, give it a more moderate number ( 4 would do ) and a moderate heal buff of 25% as you gave up ulimited, that way you just don't put it on everyone and have to decide who needs it the most, some thought in it and less ammo to keep them up importantly. 2.Supercharge Cells I really dont understand why the buffs were nerfed here, 10% was fine, not too much, not too little, when you look at other classes debuffs, far higher numbers than ours. Also giving back 2 ammo was perfectly fine. 3. Field Triage This is the other one that annoys me a lot, we spend three points on this, spending three for just the one is too much and I know I would at least skim one point to put elsewhere with the lost value. Some thoughts I would be happy with reversing the field triage and Supercharge cell nerfs and leaving the rest. But some things that could be given back in return, lower Recharge Cells to a 45 second CD, or add that ability to Cell Capacitor so you have to spend points to get it, with the same time 45 sec CD if you spend both points. Reserve powercell could also get the same buff, or added to something you need to spend points on like field triage, to partly offset the nerf from 2 to 1. It would still be worth spending the full three points on field triage then. An escape ability would also be nice, topped a poll I saw, so wanted. Other things like Mortar Volley radius nerf, finally get parity in the speed it does damage, only to again get a nerf stronger in return, like was the case with our aoe heal. Psych Aid/First aid also lost value, losing the ability to remove heal debuffs, not really worth spending a point on now.

not good enough... When you can get chain CC with full Resolve and while in the middle of a Choke with your resolve full, your resolve bar actually starts dropping down, how is that helping and considered good enough ? You got CC to get full resolve, had CC while at full resolve and was getting CC when it dropped... Only ones who defend it are those who rely on it for easy mode kills, someone that can't fight back...

Warhammer late at night was the most fun I have had in PvP, some of the fort fights were epic. We had around a warband versus a warband and a half or so and managed to hold them off and rout them, they were some of the most memorable moments I can remember, certainly as one of just a handful of tanks and holding the line on the stairs against superior numbers. In others, some of the fighting was all over the place, not enough tanks to form a line properly, or some had died and it finally broke and it was a lot of little skirmishes in the different levels of the fort, they were also very enjoyable when you won against the odds. In fact they were enjoyable when you lost too, still put up a good fight against the odds... That's why I would love forts and stuff to be able to be taken, even when less are on it doesn't matter, they make for the best fights anyway.

Yep, I saw a SS with someone a bit over 1000 if I rember correct, anyway damage increase was just over 20%, reduction just over 16% and heals was just over 11% Strong nerfs combined with expertise nerfs

Yep, Most of the whining seems to be because either too many healers are in a Warzone or in premades where they get a lot of help from teammates, neither situation makes the healing class in itself op. If you get a warzone that has 4 or 5 healers on a side, of course you are going to get a higher amount of heals than dps, but that isn't the healers fault and doesn't make em op, it's the balance in Warzones that need to be looked at. Limit the amount of healers that can be in a warzone on each side to 2 or 3, less healers and more dps automatically means less heals thrown out and more dps on top of that, a double change, both in favour of dps. With premades, if you are getting guarded, dps also losing damage through other things, teammates helping get dps off healers with CC etc, of course a healer will be harder to take down, that again doesn't mean the healer is op and to nerf just the healer is the wrong option. If you want healers to be easier to kill in premades, reduce help they can get in other areas, like a little less guard amount, nerfing just the healer isn't the best solution and wasn't warranted. The difference between pugs and premades is very big for healers, while they may seem op in premades and warzones with too many healers, in pugs with just the one or two it's far different. Most of the time no guards, little help when dps is on you and you heal for a normal amount and do die in nearly every game, certainly not as op and unkillable as some would like to think.

Yep, certainly the World PvP should have been more like Warhammer and how they thought Ilum in it's current state would be successful is strange... Don't raid though to comment on that

Short answer as a Combat Medic, NO Longer answer follows... Having been reading all the cries for heals to be nerfed into the ground, they are too op, it seems most of these cries are because of too many healers in the same warzone, or when in premades. Obviously if too many healers are in the same warzone, that means too many heals are getting thrown out, not that a class in itself is too strong, limit the amount of healers that can enter, that change is two fold, both less heals and more dps. With premades, healers are getting guarded, dps getting damage reduced elsewhere on top of that, CC and stuff to help the healers, basically good timing, good communication and teamwork, of course you will be harder to kill, but the problems lie in a few places, nerf just the healer isn't the correct way. The trouble is premade PvP is far different to pug PvP with just a healer or two, where you don't get guarded that often and don't get that much help when dps is on you, you heal for a normal amount and do in fact die in nearly every WZ. While healing/healers may be op in certain circumstances, in others they are not that bad at all, the nerfs will hurt in pugs and were not really needed as much there. I strongly dislike SCC getting touched, it was fine, not just one nerf, three nerfs and field triage. Trauma probe I will not longer waste a skill point or ammo on, I only used it because it was free and because you could move it around often depending upon who needed it most at the time, not now. I also refuse to use Hammer shot to heal, it's more trouble than it's worth, even doubling the heal amount wouldnt be enough to make me use it that often. Some nerfs you can live with like 3% less crit, losing trauma prob, the residue nerf etc, but others like Field triage and SCC are annoying Losing some radius on Mortar Volley is also frustrating, more so when we have had to live with the delay problems for so long. Just seems that any buffs/fixes were more than counted by nerfs, Mortar Volley losing radius, nerfs to heals and damage reduction stronger than the buff the aoe heal got, the weakest possible buff they could have done to it. Also nothing back in return from a PvP view, like an escape ability/defensive stuff, the res wasn't that important to some. more a PvE thing and just equality with the other healers anyway, so more a fix than a buff.

Unfortunately this has some truth to it, the blame lies in World PvP being ruined, that's the main PvP, big scale PvP that goes for hours. Had Warzones been played less because we had a working world PvP, it would have moved into the right role, secondary and for variety, just like in Warhammer where capturing forts and stuff was the main PvP. But to answer the op, my list as a Combat Medic. 1. Void ( favourite, but need to stop people being able to jump the gap, which 1.2 looks like fixing ) 2. Civil War 3. Hutt ( some classes excel in this, others less so to put it mildly, based purely on abilities available to you ) I can say though, if we had a Warzone like an Alterac Valley, bigger map, participant number and different objective, it would slot into 1st, it would be the only real bigger scale PvP until World PvP was fixed

Yep, healers in pugs are far different to healers in a premade, with a guard, damage reduction to them from other areas too, good CC to help protect them and timing/communication etc. When you pug you rarely get a guard, only the odd person tries to get a dps off you and you have to do most of that yourself, los range for example and good postioning, but meles dps still can be all over you obviously. You heal for normal amounts and die nearly everygame, it's premades and when too many healers are in the same WZ that's the problem, less so the class itself. All these nerf healers into the ground needs to stop

I don't know why people think healers get more, when every class gets heal, damage, damage reduction bonuses No one seems to mention dps getting damage reduction, just pointing out damage and damage reduction cancelling each other out and healers also get heals. I solo queue, so that means dps will be harder to take down, not by me as I am healing mostly, but by the odd person who actually protects a healer in a pug. Also the damage reduction % is less than the damage increase %, have seen a SS to show it Unless I am going about it wrong

ahh I think you will find a healer certainly knows what it is like and would get more, afterall you get focused a lot more than dps But yes I do think it needs to be toned down, when you get chained CC with full resolve and while in the middle of a choke your bar starts to drop, you know something is wrong...

If that's the case, then the Combat Medic mainhand needs to be better than the Bodyguard mainhand, just enough to offsett the differences between the totals. Pretty easy to do, just some number increase changes to cannons, it's up to BW whether they care or not about the disparity.

Better to fix the endgame itself than mess around with such massive nerfs and balance. The only times Com Medic may feel op, is when you are in a premade getting lots of help, in pugs it's not the case. With Trauma Probe, I wouldn't even take it now in PvP, it lost the little value it had, to be able to move it around freely during combat, depending upon who needed it more at the time. You can't afford to do that now and the ammo is better spent elseswhere for me, same with the skill point to get it, it can also go elsewhere...

Yeah in those situations I can see why healing is called op for sure. It certainly is a problem with nerf balance, it does seem a lot of the calls about healing being op, is when they are in a premade with a good team helping them and thus being hard to kill, so it's not the actual class so much being op, but all the damage reduction you highlighted, good timing on CC, good teamwork mainly. But then solo queue as a healer changes dramatically and that happened to be my main play, the ooposite of yours. Just wish the Combat Medic nerfs were more moderate and with stuff taken elsewhere to make them more killable in premades, instead of lumping it all on the healer. I guess it just gets a little annoying when all the cries about healing and thus healers being op isn't as clear cut as that, when solo and premade play show such different results and highlight that good team play in premades is the main factor, the class NOT the main reason. Seeing you mention 900k-1mill, in pugs while I have cracked the 700k mark on my Combat Medic, it is rare and I haven't seen another Medic do it in any warzones I have been in. It requires the right circumstances, like a Void and 0-0 so you get the full clocks and no wasted time running to the next cap, little damage taken etc so you can heal away, it doesn't happen that often. While I have a lot of games where I have done higher, you prob average in the 400k range in a pug and with a couple or a few deaths, which isn't that bad as far as op goes.

I have never seen those heal numbers in a WZ on my server, although a Sage did come close to the 900k mark in one, getting 888k I think it was. Was a civil war that the middle turret wasn't taken the whole game and it lasted for ages. Being in the middle, lots of aoe heals I bet... I didn't quite manage those numbers myself, was focused quite a bit in that game, but we won by 5 and that was what counted But a majority of my Warzones were solo queued and I still ain't fully BM ( taken a break ), the few friends I did some premades with have left and my toon will be transferred, so no point joining a guild on a temp basis, wouldn't be fair. The trouble with nerfs, they are all fine and good in premade PvP where healers DO get protected and guarded, but if you solo queue, you see that you are not actually unkillable as some would like to think, less help, most games without a guard etc, nerfs effect solo play more than premades. Certainly when you are in a pug and come up against a good premade, you feel good doing around 450-500k in a Voidstar, I died 6+ times in some, even hit double figures in a couple, where I was marked and focused as soon as I dropped down, think I only got around 400k in those and a decent amount was on myself. As you can see in pugs and against a better team, you are far from unkillable and your heal numbers drop and deaths rises.

Ahhk didn't see them, I guess it's just the basic idea they could do, of course TOR should change it a bit, temples instead of forts, put the SW spin on it. As I said in a previous post, it was often late at night, when it was only say around a warband versus a warband and a half or so and you managed to hold them off and rout them, they were some of the most memorable moments I can remember, certainly as one of just a handful of tanks and holding the line on the stairs against superior numbers. Some of them the fighting was all over the place, not enough tanks to form a line properly, or some had died and it finally broke and it was a lot of little skirmishes, they were also very enjoyable when you won against the odds. Even the PvP while leveling was enjoyable for me, good brackets and areas for those levels, but then again it was a PvP game, you expect it to be better than a game that only puts part of the effort into PvP. Coming from War, I am struggling to stay interested with just Warzones I hope that does get fixed in the future, so if I leave I can come back, this thread has brought some hope Edit* Of course engine performance could do with being improved at the same time

So it's not to do with your performance, meeting certain targets, but it's about how good everyone else in the pug is and hoping they are geared decently too Didn't know that, was hoping it was how your performance was against other healers of your class and the mirror class etc, above average, below average that type of thing to see how you fare, or that it would at least play a part.

That would be good if it's true, certainly don't want to go up against premades when I solo queue. All the class balance changes are for nothing if you have a pug team up against an organised team with communication, the different between class balance is noting compared to premade v pugs...

I haven't read all the posts, but the opposite has been true for what I have, War and forts and stuff has been used plenty times as something TOR could do I certainly didn't hate War PvP and had a lot of fun in that game, never played DAOC though...