My rotation for PVE, currently 4/4 16man EC (HM) on RMP - I will not take credit for this rotation, it is a community development of 100’s of hours of parsing and testing. Defacto PVE pyro build 7/6/28 Opener TSO + IM + Rail RP,FB with PPA as soon as it procs [it seems super simple] with a PPA proc you have 2 gcd before RP is off CD, and 3 w/o a proc Based on Krays spredsheed IM and server testing IM + RS > FT if the dot lasts 18 seconds, as the rotation is about 6 seconds to get full dmg you should only use it once every 3 times* so My 2 GCD priority is IM + RS > FT > UL (or IM for double dotting) TSO is used on 25 heat abilities on CD Dont use FT, or IM if your heat is greater than about 20, as 45 heat = reduced heat dissipation, which is less dmg and you are already fighting the RNG so don’t make it hard on yourself if heat > 40 don’t do anything that makes more heat !!!!!! Unless necessary let me know if you want to talk more specific of the rotations or would like to see numbers / math /cheers, EDIT: oh and railshot is about 18-20% of my damage total, and with OP bosses having 35% or so AC being able to bypass 90% of that is a significant boost to Railshot damage compared to talents elsewhere. 2/4 Rakata: Explosive fuel cool down is a waste as boss fights are generally 600seconds which is shorter than you would need to get another CD. 4/4 Rakata: 8% damage on Railshot is nice due to how many uses it sees in a fight, if i remember i will put it in the spreadsheet but i suspect it would be slightly more damage overall, that being said you will want the rakata gear even to just move the mods. *also need to verify if set bonuses travel with the armouring, as that could be best of both worlds.

So it seems that IM + RS cannot be pulled off as fast as a FT on server, which then delays the RP and puts a FB up first Due to the priorities in the spreadsheet impacts the rotation causing the changes seen in the rotation.

So playing with the spreadsheet, i am trying to understand the logic of the rotations and see what the limitations are "28ptpyro" [iM > RAIL > RP > FB] So i would assume that IM will be highest priority as it is in the #1 spot in the priority list, or does it not work this way? regardless it seems wrong in theory. - something like FT would be a better use of the 2GCD as it is up around 3600dmg over 2GCD for 25 heat, while IM does about 2500dmg, after that you can RS to add about 600 dmg.. for a net loss of about 500dmg over 2 seconds for the same heat cost. [RP,FB,2GCD /REPEAT, where 2gcd is FT or RSx2 and PPA is used as soon as it proc] This is the rotation i want to test in the spreadsheet. (maximizes RP and PPA Proc as they are the dps/h winners followed by flame burst and this also keeps you low on heat.. this rotation takes care of the assumptions on the spreadsheet as CGC procs are only good for 6 seconds and excluding any procs from RP or RS refreshes the CGC dot every 6 seconds. "- No procs are ever wasted (their buffs do not expire)" "- Assumes that there is always a DoT present for Rail Shot" so i swapped IM and FT as they have the same heat cost and would be used in the same situation. (with no buffs and no adrenal, just exotech stim) ==== (Default 28pt Pyro) ======= 292.38 Combustible Gas Dot 659.14 24.13% 192719 127.68 Flame Burst 1347.68 21.54% 172070 63.79 Rail Shot 2508.34 20.03% 159999 58.46 Rocket Punch 1603.47 11.74% 93735 120.04 Rapid Shots 664.59 9.99% 79778 178.29 Incendiary Missile Dot 436.55 9.74% 77831 30.04 Incendiary Missile 752 2.83% 22586 =====(swapped in FT)======= 285.82 Combustible Gas Dot 659.92 24.11% 188616 121 Flame Burst 348.62 20.86% 163178 63.54 Rail Shot 2490.27 20.22% 158234 32.96 Flame Thrower 3637.13 15.32% 119873 57.09 Rocket Punch 1597.98 11.66% 91228 92.48 Rapid Shots 662.27 7.83% 61248 === - So those are the logs (600sec @ 1000 runs which match 4000 runs averages and data) which show that IM + RS rotation is doing more damage than FT (and its not a heat issue due to RS numbers ) there is are 33 FT to match up against 30 IM + 27 RS) - IM and RS together do on average 2932 dmg - FT does on average 3600 dmg -> which leaves the 500-600dmg delta i theory crafted before * the 30 rapid shots @ 10% chance should proc CGC 3 times, but as it never falls off it only procs average dot dmg of 660dmg, the 1980dmg over 600 seconds which could explain the dmg discrepancy but there are further questions) - so here is the specific question about the spreadsheet: there is 1 more RP and 6 more FB with IM, however with the same heat cost and the same GCD usage where rotation variation come into play? it also doesn't explain where the other 3 CGC procs are coming from as well (there is a delta of 7, 1 from extra abilities, 3 from the rapid shots) - if it was heat, i would expect more RS as it is in the Above HL section of both, but there is only the 30~ expected - im sure i am missing something however i cant figure it out and it is causing FT to be used more often that it should be which impacts reported damage, perhaps the heat dissipation is different for a channeled ability which changes the rotation slightly is this the spreadsheet or in game?.. is there is enough error in lag in game to make the delta in damage (24dps) undetectable... so any ideas? lots of EDIT: for reading ease and clarification of my question and spreadsheet data.

well since you are unable to infer details about my question i will break them down for those with poor reading comprehension. "Just wanted to check and see if anyone has been doing any AP raiding, it seems that this new tier is all about movement and dots, and im curious as to if anyone has any experience with AP.." - I mention the new Teir of raiding is heavily dependent on dots and more movement and enhanced dot centric spec is potentially viable (do you raid with a sub 50? i don't know of any guild that does , there for i am only talking about lvl 50 and no regular HM but actual OPs) "we don’t have a leap or any movement speed buffs, and our dmg is limited outside of melee and with heat nerfs now its not quite as manageable" - i agree that i an not too clear here, but if you think even just for a second.. i am talking about raiding as DPS. PT was 1 DPS spec, and now there is a possible 2 specs... if i am contrasting something with the new spec, chances are i am talking about the only other spec there is... shield techs have jet charge not leap so i am not talking about them. (who does that leave, i will give you a hit it starts with Sith / Jedi) "Dummies are nice for theory in a perfect scenario with no running, no target switching and no agro management, lets be honest, there are no fights like that… so its an apples to apples comparison but only good against other apples…. And we know that in a perfect situation what an apple is like… but that will tell us nothing about how oranges work (raids)" - do you have an issue with this statement? i will TTYLYA5 - dummies are good for rotations and ensuring your dps is adequate for a fight, but does not provide real world scenario experience of clearing adds, having phases to work though and falsely represents heat management during the movement between phases where you are not stationary and have to worry about placement which logically leads into the next part.. it would be nice to see if between charged gauntlets, Hydraulic overrides, immolate, auto heat venting , movement speed buffs and retractable blade that you can actually keep up the dps and perhaps even provide a better utility to the raid.. as tbh AP isn’t very good at PVP it may bring that utlity to the raid where you know your rotation and don’t need the RNG. - all these abilities are within the AP tree (auto heat venting = Proto cylinder venting) move speed buffs is pneumatic boots).. which can provide additional utility to the PT which increases raid dps that have no effect on traning dummy logs.. and doesn't rely on PPA procs (RNG) in order to manage heat and augment their dps as their heat management is essentially scheduled. Now i admit i posted this during work, so i didn't have hours of time to sort though the posts here.. perhaps i will look at your signature.. perhaps just on principle i wont and will just ask people their experiences raiding with AP subjectively as that is what really matters not someone parsing logs on a dummy as i can tell you even the MK5 is nothing like actually hitting the boss (at least 10-15% more dmg on dummy) and if you doubt my experinces send me a PM and i will enlighten you, cheers,

Just wanted to check and see if anyone has been doing any AP raiding, it seems that this new tier is all about movement and dots, and im curious as to if anyone has any experience with AP.. we don’t have a leap or any movement speed buffs, and our dmg is limited outside of melee and with heat nerfs now its not quite as manageable.. Dummies are nice for theory in a perfect scenario with no running, no target switching and no agro management, lets be honest, there are no fights like that… so its an apples to apples comparison but only good against other apples…. And we know that in a perfect situation what an apple is like… but that will tell us nothing about how oranges work (raids) it would be nice to see if between charged gauntlets, Hydraulic overrides, immolate, auto heat venting , movement speed buffs and retractable blade that you can actually keep up the dps and perhaps even provide a better utility to the raid.. as tbh AP isn’t very good at PVP it may bring that utlity to the raid where you know your rotation and don’t need the RNG.

the issue is not the tie, its the stalemate RNG decision that occurs in about 90% of Voidstar matches (at least on my server) those that don't stalemate is when one side doesn't have healers... or else a whole bunch of fresh 50's in greens.

Fine you like it.... but what are the redeeming qualities that make it worth playing... the only thing i can see is AOE meter padding... For those who have issues healing in huttball, i feel for you. just queue with a tank, have him guard you and then /pwn.. if you are a solo healer you are going to get crushed by anyone and everyone because you by definition are not spec'd for killing. With 1.2 its not going to make it easier for healers without tanks, however i think a healer with a tank is going to be even more OP than it is now.

Oh, and i play Empire on a pvp server so i get huttball a lot, i play a PT and OP Don't get me wrong i would like variety within the pvp matches, i just think that as it is right now the RNG has way too much control over who wins in voidstar. that being said, if you are queuing 8 and have a 25%/25%/25%/25% wz chance you couldn't min/max you group too much... that is assuming that class A is good in 2 WZ and class B is good in 2 WZ, not that OP/FOTM classes melt face in every WZ.. its looking like a good time to be an op Edit: as for lack of strat - i am saying that at fundamental level there is no variation to the strategy, there is one objective, one way to do it, and unless you meed very specific group composition requirements you cannot complete it (attack 1 door attack 2 doors, its the same strat, kill them all at once and use the door re spawn timer to give you your 8s.. now you can try and bait defenders away from doors, but in the 50's and especially ranked wz no one is actually going to fall for that.. someone can ninja a door maybe 1 in 50 games and only if someone lags out or is afk..

At this point, i think VoidStar shouldn't be a ranked warzone as its a glorified slot machine ... or at least give people the option to not queue for this wz. there is no strat to winning at all, its just valor by RNG... Hutball and Alderan have strategy and a dynamic feel, voidstar is an AoE meter fest. its a check to see which side the RNG happens to provide a healer, If the teams are balanced the game stalemates and the RNG picks the winner... If you can queue 8 together there is never going to be a fair game with a bomb on the door. If your group doesn't have a significant the dps advantage its the RNG picking the winner after the stalemate, or who it screwed over by group composition. does anyone know of any of fixing it... I am trying to think of a way to bring strategy into it but cant, i think the design is a neat idea, but not a practical wz for ranked pvp.

it would take a long time to get BM without medals or mvp votes without getting reported for running a bot.. and if you were not botting *** is your problem.. it would be much faster and easier to actually play.

So the argument against Expertise is that PVE players are unfairly disadvantaged when they pvp against someone who specializes in PVP. Do the pve players realize that expertise comes at a cost to things like acc, surge, crit etc..? I know the base damage reduction and increase cover for some of this, but it’s not like we are getting anything for free, it’s at a cost, and comes at the cost of being able to properly min/max. - Would the pve'ers perfer a boost to pve stat, which makes killing bosses easier but doesn’t work in pvp? Nope I don’t think so... as they would have less ability to min/max which is much more important in PVE than PVP.. It wouldn’t help them in WZ either because of the wasted stats... - Would they perfer players to gear with the same point values on them for pvp that are just as effective? As an ex-raider I don’t think so, as queuing solo while you level to get your 10 bags before 50 is a much easier way than getting 4/8/16 players to actually work together and kill some bosses, without 100% chance to get loot even if it drops due to the RNG... (Now I’m talking getting it legit, not being run though by other players.. with a guild you can be geared out in an evening and negate the hours someone put into pvp to get Valor rankings... the only answer would be an escalating gear race, being that the high end gear needs to be significantly better than the mid game gear... which creates a "I have a guild, and there for have been twinkled" vs. " I don’t have a guild and I can’t do pve or pvp now because people won’t group with me due to my gear" (made worse by the potential for GearScore) - So what is your answer to the issue?, get rid of Expertise all together and give advantage to the PVP players in pve? while letting PVE end game raiders come into pvp with their gear and cut the end game in half... I for one can’t come up with a solution that is better for everyone.. That doesn’t involve making abilities function differently between pve and pvp

I decided to create a pyro/st alt, and looking at the talents isnt specing into Ion Overload a waste as you are also specing into combustable gas.. or is it more like we need to borun some points

Ashara might not be a tank and have a shield but when you get her she is a much better tank the Khen for a healer, even without a shield and or Heavy armor she could tank better, her DPS more than made up for me not casting affliction or crushing darkness. I did stack her with some spare tank gear i had picked up so she wasnt in full greens or anyting. However for a SI who doesnt want to heal, i could see how people could have issues using her, it going to come down to spec and playstyle. i know on my op i dont heal my companion so a companion that is as tanky as possible is better than dps for me, but when 62% of my talents are in the haling tree it would be silly to pretend to be able to dps.

I see this from both sides, as a healing Sorc (32/7/2) i am basically stealth bait unless i am with a pre-made. I have an Alt as an Op as i cant pvp in a premade all the times and i dont like feeding republic valor 1:1 unless they are a healer its generally bad news as you cannot outheal someone trying to dps you (heal someone else yes) and its not like i can use stuns or interupts on anyone as EVERYONE essentially runs arround with full resolve bars, thats what being a healer is... Its not like acid blade ever made any differnce to killing me... brining down my 10% reduction to 5% is nothing, like all %, unless the base has with weight behind it... even the hidden strike nerf is not really going to change our ability to gank healers into oblivion... Philospically people need to remember its closer to rock/paper/scissiors and that melee burst dps classes should not be attacking high armor targets, i know we all love doing things we should be doing, but given equal gear and skill we should loose to a tank commando/merc due to their ability to negate our dmg.. and we should be able to get a SI/JC pretty much every time... perhaps light armor tanks will be harder but just stack some more accuracy.. Its a shame they have nerfed a 31 point talent without giving us any utility or anything, but anyone who has played a stealther at release allways knows the nerf bat is going to hit, and it doesnt matter how much foam is wrapped arround an iron core, its going to hurt.

~you could buy a marker from the social vendor and bind that to a key if it really matters that much to you~ ~ and if they dont want to wait 15s, then your marker isnt going to matter