Noth
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Posts posted by Noth
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Not yet as well as I'd like honestly. Separating 50s is all nice and good, but but 1-49 bunched all together is still too wide of a bracket.
But it'll come in time, so I'm not too worried.
Actually 1-49 is pretty balanced, I only ever feel useless against 50s as they can start getting expertise gear.
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I duggest reading the dev blogs or even going to look at the patch notes on the test server. They are making it so 50s only go against 50s.
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Actually, the issue he was responding too was the presence of channelled attacks on a melee class, as was fairly obvious from his initial post... YOU were the one who decided the issue he was answering was lack of stuns. Which means his pointless comment wasn't pointless in the context he actually said it in, while your comment in response to it was pointless - doubly so as he'd already specified 'if your immortal'.
And since Immortal has two non-channelled stuns, one of which is a 4-second 45sec c/d and the other is a 3second, 1 minute c/d, your statement that our 'only CC even close' is patently false. And this is without mentioning Intimidating Roar's AOE 6-second stun.
Yes, we have to spec for the 4sec/45cd stun when no-one else has to, which is dumb - particularly putting both our main stun skills right next to each other on the tree, so at level 29 you have no stuns and by level 31 you have 2. I personally think Choke should come available at about level 14 and Grip should be a rank 2 or 3 talent, so it's cross-specable. But 'having to spec for it' does not mean 'does not exist at all', just as 'responding to a different part of the post above to the one you would like to talk about' does not mean 'does not understand the issue and thus makes only pointless comments'.
Those are immortals stuns. All other classes get that 4 second stun baseline. Roars stun is weak as well. Snipers and agent get one that is ranged and lasts 8 seconds. When talking about the whole class you cannot say it's ok because one tree has it when all trees actually need it.
That is the point I'm making. Nothing about the statement that immortal can spec to have non channeled force choke even touches on the issue at hand. The class still has a channeled stun which is extremely stupid on a melee.
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Some day, people will stop confusing crit numbers with dps. Then, St. Peter will sound the final trumpet of the apocalypse.
In all seriousness though, just because we don't have huge crits like other classes doesn't mean we have bad dps. Sure, they might be getting a 6k hit, but the skill might have been on a 2s cast timer. In rage spec on my jugg I was getting 3k+ crits on smash before I even had any max level pvp/pve gear (I've been running immortal since then because my guild needs me for tanking and I don't feel like spending the money respecing all the time). 3k in 1s is the same dps as 6k in 2s, it just doesn't look like it because all most people see is the big shiny numbers floating above their (or their opponents') head; they don't take the "seconds" part of "dps" into account, and thus think a class has bad dps because they can't get big crits.
To answer the OP's question, yes, you can do good (although slightly below top tier) dps with a jugg if specced and played properly. I'm of the opinion that veng is better for pve and rage is better for pvp, but really it all depends on your playstyle and what content you're running.
MOst of thse skills that hit that hard have no cast time (See operative) or cast times equal to the GCD (see sniper and other caster classes) meaning they can fire them off just as fast as we can. They also tend to have lower cooldowns than our big hitters and hit from range or allow CC to be used similtaneously.
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It doesn't fix the issue, but it clarifies a point you made where channeled abilities can't be used while moving. The schism is the fact that you want it available for DPS specs and he pointed out that its only available for tanking. Do you see the exact point where we split the hairs?
It was a pointless comment. One that is along the lines of "The sky is blue." And I see these statements made all the time trying to say that Jugg is ok. It just shows ignorance to the actual problem.
Honestly I'm not entirely in shock every time I deal damage in a FP or OP, but people who group with don't seem to have any issues. Gear and tightening the skill priority is a big role.I wouldn't say, "Juggarnauts are fine, just figure out how to play and quit complaining" because there are some glaring disparities between this Advanced Class and others. That said, they aren't worth completely hanging up, at least not for me, because I have a lot of fun with the versatility they have.
I agree with the post on the Vengeance tree and its lackluster DoTs; I see the bleeds but I see nothing that really supports them beyond the talents that you get them from.
Suggested changes:
Rampage: change out Ravage for Force Scream since it is a more integrated part of our priority system. Ravage has zero maneuverability and basically sees little use outside of weak targets past level 10.
Improved Sundering Assault: Should increase the damage SA does in addition to adding extra sunder. It doesn't have to be astronomical, but somewhat helpful since its used on cool down.
Shien Form: Should have more synergy with either the bleeds in addition to the damage buff or else do something besides JUST damage increase.
In lore, Shien was designed to redirect attacks like blaster bolts back at it's attackers. Maybe an actual true to lore ability?
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Hence I wrote "(if you're immortal)"
Hence it does not fix the issue. the issue is that our only CC even close to the 4 second 1 minute cooldown CC other classes get is a 3second CC that also CC's ourselves.
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Choke can be nonchanneled with talent (if you're immortal) and ravage you eventually take off the hotbar in the later levels, eventually channeled attacks won't be an issue anymore.
Not everyone goes immortal. Please think about that then come back.
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True. Except for the free part (Ruin). Which given the issues in building rage in soresu can be kinda important at times. Plus his build has the benefits of Unstoppable. ... Course those benefits might not be as useful as doing the Crush/Choke buffing more often. So who knows.
Rage smash builds already hit pretty weakly outside of the empowered smash, the build would hit even weaker. I just don't see a real upside to that build.
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Would you like with that a skill that one shot people while they are stun and wins the game for you?
Its team effort not 1v1.
Did you ever noticed a combo Tank + Healer which can outlast a very long period of time before dying imagine adding some dps parterns to it.
Juggs/ or jedi mirror do not need buffs. Snare is a blight but you don't see it with your class atm.
As for marauders cannot say much expect fix the skills as intended and see in the futur how it works out. ( I don't play one)
Until a dps duo 4 shots his healer then the tank is just SoL.
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Well I don't know if the build is "gimp". You're still jumping around throwing out auto-crit Smash whenever it cycles - just not at the extra 75-100% damage. And you are doing it for free while in Soresu form. The build doesn't look like it's gonna be a dps monster like pure Shii-Cho Rage or Shien Vengeance. So if that's your focus, I guess you could call it gimp. But this guy's build would also tank quite a bit better than those two.
So it kinda looks like a group PvE build where you are holding aggro and doing AOE damage while your dps guys blast stuff down. It'll never tank as well as Immortal, or dps as much as Rage or Veng. Still it looks kinda interesting. And if you really need a pure tank for something, you can always respec.
The thing s you can run in soresu in a pure smash build and throw out just as many auto crit smashes that are also empowered. Everything you mention it does can be done in a pure rage smash build simply by switching to soresu.
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Are you sure? Unstoppable makes you immune to interruptions for 4 secs, so if he goes Charge > Choke > Smash their should be little issue (or Sunder after the Choke if you like). So the build could work as a one-trick AOE pony. Everything revolves around getting to the next Smash. Perhaps a bit niche, but probably rather effective for big mob PvE.
As for the top-tier Talents... What makes Force Crush or Impale (Rage & Veng respectively) so critically needed? Neither have the base numbers that are gonna beat the damage of auto-crit buffed Smashes. If those top talents crit, they will out-perform, but it's still against only one target. They are great if you are going for the boss-killer, but not so effective against numbers. So please explain why they are so critical.
That being said, probably a few things I'd change in the build.
You can only choke every 50 seconds or so. that makes the build bad. You focus on smash but only have one way to empower it. You'll hit hard once and then be gimp for the next 40 or so seconds. With force crush you get empowered smashes every 20 seconds or so, or faster if both choke and crush are up.
Impale is vital to vengeance because it a large amount of damage and make scream basically an auto crit.
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I haven't experienced this phase out that you keep mentioning. I was in Tatooine(1) last night with fewer than 50 players and there was a second Tatooine shard running.
1. If you want to talk about technical starting areas, WoW has more than four. I was making the point that unlike SW:TOR, players have a choice of zones for any given character level. SW:TOR's progression is linear.
2. Yes, they do. I see objective respawn within seconds all the time. The only time you might have run into trouble is on launch day. We're way past that point now in SW:TOR.
EDIT: And come to think of it, I was playing at midnight when Cataclysm launched and I had no trouble at all in Hyjal.
Played Hyjal and Vashir. Hyjal was a complete and utter waste of time due to traffic. Went to Vashir hoping for something different and it was worse. Also I've seen often looted items and mobs spwn in seconds in this game at release that are now not spawning so fast as the number of people in those areas decrease.
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Sure, by phasing out you mean maintaining the same caps? Different planets appear to have different caps 100 people on a planet is easy we normally have multiple hundreds in different shards on our server.
Was utterly disappointed when I saw sharding in this game, though developers had realised by now that with current server technology there should be no need for it.
Drommond kass used to begin sharding at 100 players meaning anything over 100 would split into two shards. It's not splitting at 100 anymore. That means the cap is being raised and even possibly removed. I actually have yet, since the patch be on a planet with multiple shards and I'm on a server that is almost always full.
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I was around for the launch of every expansion of WoW. Blizzard had two solutions to this problem and both are better than sharding.
1. There's more than one starting zone. You didn't have to do Vashj'ir first. I didn't.
2. The quest objectives respawn at a rate proportional to their use, as I stated earlier. It's possible that this rate is capped to prevent instant respawns, but that probably only matters for the first few hours after launch.
Niether worked as good as sharding that is phased out. the sharding is getting phased out.
1) both starting areas were always crammed negating the benefit of two starting areas (TOR technically has 4 starting areas anyways)
2) They never respawned fast enough to keep up with traffic.
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The difference is, it might suck at the start of the game but when it gets to the point where people are mostly at the endgame stuff it will be much better than sharding.
You aren't paying attention to this game then. They are phasing out the sharding. Had over 100 people on Drommund Kass and only 1 shard. Bioware's idea has worked a ton better.
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You're confusing sharding with instancing. The little green doorways lead you to instances. Shards are different. When the population of a planet exceeds a set threshold, a second copy of that planet is launched and players who arrive in the future will be sent to this second instance. Sharding is used to combat the problem that the OP described in point 1.
Sharding is a poor solution, though. While it might solve the intended problem, it creates a new problem where worlds start to feel empty because the players are separated too much. Blizzard's solution is better. NPCs, monsters, and quest items respawn at a rate proportional to the number of players killing/using them.
You apparently weren't around during launch of any expansion in WoW. No rate of spawning could keep up with the number of players. They would have to literally respawn instantly to keep up and they never did. Vashir was the biggest cluster**** I've ever seen in a game to date.
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I see some people wondering why many of the players feel that SWTOR is less of an MMO and more of a Single-Player/Co-op game.
In my opinion, here is why:
1) in SWTOR you are worse off if other players are also questing in the same area: The quest mechanics are such that other players can steal your kill or delay you from reaching your objective;
This happens in all MMOs. Not SWTOR specific. In fact that lends itself to being a MMO.
2) to solve this problem, Bioware has implemented Sharding, which makes it so that there is never a decent amount of people around;I see people all the time on evry planet I go to. No idea what you are talking about here.
3) furthermore, the gameworld is designed as a series of corridors that segregates people;Get to tatooine and beyond.
4) and finally the game works against you if you would like to find groups. In fact there are no tools to help you in creating a group. Spamming chat is the only way to find other people.There are tools just no one uses them. Educate your self to the LFG function of the who window.
I think all these factors come together and make SWTOR feel very Single-Player/Co-op player-ish.None of those factors mean it is not an MMOs. Some of those factors are flat out false.
Am I wrong? What do you think?Yes you are wrong.
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Lol. I agree with you. Im only a 16 Juggernaut, and i'm enjoying it and see some of the nice defensive stuff, ex.- Soresu form(Just awesome), Shield in offhand, lightsaber shield(forget exact name of ability), deflecting blaster shots with lightsaber, Call on the force, Heavy Armor, think i'm missing one or two. Plus I hear they start hitting their stride somewhere around 26 or so.
Other classes get similar things and even superior things to what you mention.
I've also rolled a Mercenary, and yes, the Mercenary does do more damage both to single targets and groups, and still has descent health and heavy armor, but if you know what your doing, to me, the Juggernaut can easily hold its own with it's own skill set. Out of the 4 Sith classes, on average, the Juggernaut does do the least amount of damage, but that's the way they were designed. They can still do descent damage tho.THe problem is that the Merc makes content stupidly easy. Stuff has just been getting easier as I level on my Merc. On my Jugg leveling slowly became pulling teeth. There is a massive difference in power of the classes. Also, all dps spec are to be similar.
Tired of hearing about people complaining about the Jugg. I wouldn't call it the best class out there, but it's very viable to me. I wouldn't complain either if they bioware did give them a buff tho, cause in the hands of a skilled player, would make the Jugg almost broke. (Not that i'm a great player, just saying)Is it viable? As a tank yes, as dps not so much. Been kicked from multiple hardmodes when they find out I'm a jugg. Do I do well in pvp? Yes I do. Does that mean the class is fine? No it does not.
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They need to be really careful with buffing this class. The majority of people out there are just playing the class badly and screaming for help, its not in any way shape or form broken.
If they give this class a hefty buff, those who are proficient in its use are going to become killers, and the ones who are really good? well... unkillable god-like savages.
We need the juggernaut community, those who enjoy and can play it anyway, to be a little more vocal about the issue I think. We don't want a class that either A) Provides no fun because you just faceroll anything or B) gets nerfed and buffed so often that its a pale shade of its once true greatness
Seriously peeps, be patient, and accept the fact that you ARE going to have to work harder than other classes for the big numbers etc (or whatever floats your boat)
Juggy aint broken, ask anyone who comes up against a seriously skilled and equally expertise geared juggernaut how it went
The issues lie in the dps area. If the Jugg specs dps and uses the given form for the tree they are squish mode with the lowest survivability of any dps class while putting out lesser dps (yes rage can burst, but it's burst is something other classes can do more often). Hell my level 18 Op that lacks it's survivabilty cooldowns can put up numbers better than my jugg. (please note I often lead in medals, protection and top 5 in damage in most warzones I do so I'm not bad at playing one).
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oh, ok, thanks! But does the mara get it then? what level?
forget the level it only lasts 4 seconds.
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nvrmind
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Neither tree is meant to be tanky, which is the problem. Rage is freaking AMAZING in PvP, doing 5-6k crits to 5 people around you every 12 seconds. Vengeance is more PvE based and can put out consistent DPS that is only ~10-15% away from the best dps in out guild. (I've posted about the DPS test we do earlier, if you want more info pm me)
those 5-6k crits are an extreme rarity that takes all damage buffs on you. Stacking power and surge without those extra buffs you typically top out around 4k
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And i couldve gone onto my warrior and frapsed me critting for loads. It shows nothing.
It would not be 5k crits followed by 3k crits followed by other 2k+ crits. You may get 5k crits with a smash build if you get all the damage buffs and stims, but otherwise the highest smash you would see is a 4k, then you'd hit like a wet noodle. Vengeance can get a string of 3k, 2.5k, 1.5k crits, but that is nothing compared to what gunslinger/snipers, scoundrels/operatives, and shadows/assassins can output.
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It wont be in the minor bug/exploit patches we get each week. Rather the first big content patch will contain fixes for probably every class. Until we see that coming on the PTR, dont expect anything. Since I imagine the first big patch is months away... thats a rough timeline.
All just a guess...
First big patch is due out this month. There was a dev blog talking about it. Dev blog was done in December and states
Next month we're going to be releasing a new Flashpoint and an expanded Operation.Whether it will be out this month or not that points to a big patch that is not months down the line.
The power of the wet noodle.
in Guardian / Juggernaut
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No spec outputs incedible dps compared to the dps specs of other classes. We put out ok dps..