As a person who's played MMO's since he was a small child. I can tell you what BioWare and TOR did to push the genre forward. They made leveling less of a borefest the first time through. I don't think they did it exactly right, simply due to the lack of options in places to level and linearity of the game itself, however as the first hammer mark on the unforged blade of the future in storytelling in an MMO? It's a strike in the right direction. Games in the future will incorporate more story into their games than before, and tell it in ways that players will pay attention. I suspect there is a healthy middle ground to be had between story and game play that will eventually be discovered. GW2 is integrating voiced personal story into the game, albeit much less of it than SWTOR - but maybe in the future we'll see games that balance it right. Good times ahead I think, no matter what happens to SWTOR.

I closed my sub, took some time off. Gave them 15 more dollars today, closed my sub again right away. Why? Well, I have no other games to play, and it should be a good time filler to level that inquisitor. Maybe I can stomach the planets again. However, I doubt I'll be staying once GW2 comes out. It just gives me more of what I personally like. End of story really. (END OF RINE!) Really, 15 bucks isn't much at all. But, I still don't really like SWTOR all that much.

Why did you feel the need to post this? Game's been out for three months, a lot of people don't like making alts. Getting to level cap in a game where it's practically hurling exp at you if you play for more than two hours a day every few days, is not difficult. Speaking of..why did I even bother to reply?

I don't regret buying two of them. Finally in a place in my life where I can spend that money and not worry about it. My Malgus statue is awesome, the book is a neat piece of lore that I enjoy as well. The in game items were just as described, if a little badly planned. Charging 149.99 for it was a bit steep and I'm glad that other games have not done this. TERA's ce will be like 70 bucks or something, and I think it has useful stuff. Still, not bad. My wife and I mailed one whole ce box after we used the key to a friend who LOVES Star wars collectables, he was blown away by everything inside and the box itself. So, happiness transfer complete!

Just in case the OP decides to check again. There is no real time limit for people who want to give something time to improve. A lot can change in an MMO over two months, six months, or a year. It all depends really on who's calling the shots, and then more so who might take that persons place. Changes occur. The only way to reasonably make a call on this is your own opinion - if in four months it's not what you want, then let it go. Not a big deal really.

Whoa whoa whoa, hold there phone there mister man. What caused this turn around in opinion? I know it's kind of off topic but kind of not. I remember you shooting fire at me for bringing up GW2. What happened man?

That's not what we want Kaelshi. However. If TOR were to just, completely Bomb - which it wont. If it did, it would probably teach a lesson to developers to try new things - rather than to copy WoW, rather than changing things up. Games made for pure money are always going to copy the greatest line for perceived success. Giant budgets beget the needs for giant returns instead of..chances to make better games that May not be so popular with everyone.

These things are mostly true. They are similar, it's just that when you look at Implementation of said features such as the auction house, and other things like that - Tera did this a lot better than TOR managed to, just on a technical level. What can ya do?

Well. No they don't draw as many people. They're a lot harder to play and get into. This isn't a bad thing, but it's not meant to draw in MILLIONS OF SUBS! It's meant to draw in people who like that kind of thing - it's usually why people who play them love em so much. Games like what WoW has become, and what TOR started out as, are fishing nets. Cast out to catch as MANY Fish as possible, trying to please everyone. It makes for a product that's just stretched too thin.

Well..To say ONE or two things that..may adjust the points a bit..TOR only has..4 classes..Mirror's don't..really count in my opinion. Trooper is a BH, BH is a trooper..skills do the same things, with different animations..and they didn't even do THAT right.. Oh! And..one strike against Tera..Bluehole(Ugh..)..is half the Lineage 3 team, and they're..getting sued..for stealing all the stuff that they were making Lineage 3 with..to..make Tera..Yeah.. So! Yeah! Tera is a really well put together MMO! Nobody's perfect though.

Actually in it's time period it was a major player. EverQuest 1 was a massive success and topped out at 400k. You really need to learn your numbers and also what they are in perspective. EQ2 capped at 750k. World of Warcraft - capped at 12 Million. See that there's a discrepancy there champ? Let me lay this out for you. EQ1-2, and SWG existed all at the same time with good, stable playerbases. Games weren't judged by a monolithic amount of subs. That only happened with WoW. If people could actually Think? Realize that and say "Well, if TOR has 500k-600k subs. Were in good shape." No, everything has to be in the 1-12 Million range to not be a disaster. Granted, games that have Really BOMBED like Warhammer? Earned it. An MMO with 500-800k Subs? That's a hit. For the record? I didn't even like SWG. What it means to me for TOR by the way? Is there's a lot of Bored of WoW mmo gamers, that are also - Bored of TOR. Game will be fine though, quit worrying!

Clearly you guys don't understand his genious reasoning. Clearly he's right. SWG was a Total bomb. I mean it ONLY ran from 2003-2011, and it ONLY had like, a piddly HALF A million people playing? You guys are just noobs. I mean, psh. TOR has LOST nearly as many subs as SWG had at it's peak without even trying in it's 1st month! See? You guys are just crazy.

Great to see someone who has something good to say. Some of the things for me I just don't think they can change rapidly. I think this thread is doomed, they changed my title, and kicked me to the suggestion box which we all know no one reads. Oh well.

It's up to you to decide if you fall into the We I described or not, if you don't that's great and I hope you really have a lot of fun. However, if you do. I'd love to have some suggestions posted about what could bring players like us back to the table.

Oh yeah! That also! It'll say you have to pay money but when you actually click OK it'll say you were charged zero! Try respecing, it's just a bugged message!

That's the thing though Skate. I didn't really play all that much. My wife and I pretty much duoed from 1-50 together. I mean I hit fifty like two weeks ago. Not exactly rushing, we didn't space bar a thing. By the time we finished Voss she was done, no interest in playing and I felt the same, I just didn't want to do Corellia. I finished my class story and gave raiding a go, this was the end result. I do like MMO's. I love MMO's. I just wonder if what we've been doing for the past decade isn't wearing thin like my belt. I agree with your third point, were stagnating with little change.

Respecs SHOULD reset every week, they certainly did for me and everyone else I know. Try sending in another ticket, and be a little more firm this time than you were last time, because that isn't working as intended.

Agreed. These are good ideas in concept but they need further refinements. If the world's were a bit larger, or perhaps if bosses dropped datacron's, there might be a bit more competition for them rather than a find the cube click the cube platforming game.

First off, this isn't a troll thread. Venthios is a little drunky so it's gonna be a good ride. What follows is a breif explanation of why I as a player have uninstalled the game and closed my sub. Everyone seems to be doing this so I'd be remiss if I didn't hop on the bandwagon vodka in hand. I guess I could have chosen to drink Apple whiskey or JackDaniels but, not a fan. Am I tired of MMO's? Is it the game, or is it me? This is a question that every single person who feels like they may want to quit needs to ask themselves. You'll usually find that it's a mix of all three things. For me personally, I'm tired of the Theme-park Grinder, some of us want change but that doesn't mean everyone needs it, for a lot of people this is their first MMO and I really hope it turns out as special for you guys as EQ1 and Nexus Kingdom of the Winds turned out for me, really it was a joy. Raid or Die? This is the ultimate question. With the raids being the way they are, Normal Mode is easily achieved in about an hour a day for both instances. As a casual player - do you have to push for more? The answer is it's up to you. For me? I'm a hard core raider - but here's the catch. I don't want to be anymore. I'd wager quite a few of us who beat our faces against the toughest encounters in the world are feeling like this in one way or another. The point is, if you're not part of a key raid team, you may be put on Standby. What this means, is you will be Waiting - ready to go until the raid is accomplished. I sat there on the fleet waiting to be called, just fiddling with trade skills this friday and I stopped and said and I had an epiphany that many of us may be able to learn from. I'm really tired of waiting to have fun. Let me tell you guys, I enjoy looting bosses. When I first killed Soa I felt that ever so familiar "Itch". I wanted more. I had to kill more. Loot more, kill more, loot more. I Wanted to do it. But then? I realized that I was going to be waiting to have fun as I can't play a tank due to the raids requiring only 1. It's okay! It is, but it's not for me. Then there's PVP. Some people may find this fun. I played Arenas and rated BG's to 2400/2200 respectively. Not the best but we played well, try hard but not try too hard. This game's pvp feels like it's more of the same without the smooth feel of PVP from other games, like World of Warcraft - which is kind of bad because it's what they were trying to emulate. However some people enjoy it. I do not. Grinding players to get gear to grind players has lost it's flavor. It's like chewing a piece of gum, eventually it's just tasteless and all your doing is making your jaw ache. PVP and it's effects on the game. Now, I enjoy PVP as much as the next guy but my forte is world PVP and this game really let me down big time. It may not let you down but it sure as hell made me sad. I ran into a total of 10-15 republic players from 20-50. It was depressing. I really wanted to cut up some Jedi in major battles. But they really did segregate the worlds way too much, and the fact the Pubbies got kicked swift in the balls on population, which is so sad. I felt like all the republic players were just Fluttering by and were really Shy. Structured PVP in this game is like it turned into in WoW, just way faster. You grind players - to get gear. To grind more players. With ranking this may change however, fostering a climate where the baubles at the end are the reward for killing people - is just going to get stale really quick. That being said: Huttball. Whoever designed this? Should be given some kind of medal and cash prize. With some tweaking and fixes, such as a bit wider map, this could be a sensational skill based map. It already is to some extents by planning jumps, pulls, pushes, and knock back's with traps and positioning in mind. I know every time I pushed someone into fire or acid I held my Pinkie to my mouth and grinned. It was like eating fresh apple Pie. It really is fantastic. Alderaan is really basic and boring, and Voidstar is pretty annoying to me anyway, the doors are just zerg fests and aoe bombs, there is little tactical skill involved besides THEY WENT LEFT! GO RIGHT! then maybe planting a bomb and popping a door. Crafting: Initially I thought this was pretty good. I'm a 400 biochem and 400 synthweaver on my main and alt. Pretty good right? Well, It just has no Feel to it. I don't like just sending my companions to do everything for me. I like having some interaction to make an item. It's like if I built a custom PC but had YOU do all the word and then sold it as if it were my own product that I hand crafted. That's really pretty minor. They should have learned from other MMO's and offered the other professions to do things like add augment sockets to the CRAFTERS GEAR ONLY instead of just random crit. Make mods? Give em some Rakata mods, only can have 3 but they're really good. Jewelcrafting much? Easy! Datacrons: No. Ew. Gross. I went for the ones on tat and the balloon despawned. That was enough for me. I'm not much of a codex guy either. Worlds are too static for my taste. Nothing really feels like it's moving, it's been a mirrored thought among quite a few posters, but hopefully they will change this issue in the future. I mean even maybe a waterfall Rainbow to Dash to would be nice, and see some kind of wildlife or NPC's milling around. It really irk's me that there are no day and night cycles. I'd like to see the sun set and fade into Twilight. That kind of awesome effect makes a world feel more alive, especially if monsters that aren't there during the day, pop out at night. Not that SWTOR needs Sparkleing vampires. It's just a suggestion -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anyway. TL;DR, I think a lot of us may just be tired of what the standard is and may be looking to try new things, that's okay. We're not a Rarity by any means but I don't want SWTOR to die, or fail, or whatever nonsense people can make up. I'd just like some options on the market, not just Warcraft with different flavors. It looks like they may be coming, we'll see. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For all your TORFanatics out there, keep rockin. This wasn't the game for me, but if it's the game for you? More power to you. Anyway, use this thread to discuss what you do and don't like about TOR, and how you think the game could be changed to make players like myself maybe think again about staying. Good ideas may come of it! No one's going to read this like ever, are they? My previous thread got closed due to the silly comments, keep it focused guys.

You'll be okay. Just enjoy yourself.

Brohoof /)(\

You can always find me. I'm never far. My sub doesn't end till the 18th. I'll always be your secret friend, and we can share this together whenever you like.

I laughed. Really hard.

First off, this isn't a troll thread. Venthios is a little drunky so it's gonna be a good ride. What follows is a breif explanation of why I as a player have uninstalled the game and closed my sub. Everyone seems to be doing this so I'd be remiss if I didn't hop on the bandwagon vodka in hand. I guess I could have chosen to drink Apple whiskey or JackDaniels but, not a fan. Am I tired of MMO's? Is it the game, or is it me? This is a question that every single person who feels like they may want to quit needs to ask themselves. You'll usually find that it's a mix of all three things. For me personally, I'm tired of the Theme-park Grinder, some of us want change but that doesn't mean everyone needs it, for a lot of people this is their first MMO and I really hope it turns out as special for you guys as EQ1 and Nexus Kingdom of the Winds turned out for me, really it was a joy. Raid or Die? This is the ultimate question. With the raids being the way they are, Normal Mode is easily achieved in about an hour a day for both instances. As a casual player - do you have to push for more? The answer is it's up to you. For me? I'm a hard core raider - but here's the catch. I don't want to be anymore. I'd wager quite a few of us who beat our faces against the toughest encounters in the world are feeling like this in one way or another. The point is, if you're not part of a key raid team, you may be put on Standby. What this means, is you will be Waiting - ready to go until the raid is accomplished. I sat there on the fleet waiting to be called, just fiddling with trade skills this friday and I stopped and said and I had an epiphany that many of us may be able to learn from. I'm really tired of waiting to have fun. Let me tell you guys, I enjoy looting bosses. When I first killed Soa I felt that ever so familiar "Itch". I wanted more. I had to kill more. Loot more, kill more, loot more. I Wanted to do it. But then? I realized that I was going to be waiting to have fun as I can't play a tank due to the raids requiring only 1. It's okay! It is, but it's not for me. Then there's PVP. Some people may find this fun. I played Arenas and rated BG's to 2400/2200 respectively. Not the best but we played well, try hard but not try too hard. This game's pvp feels like it's more of the same without the smooth feel of PVP from other games, like World of Warcraft - which is kind of bad because it's what they were trying to emulate. However some people enjoy it. I do not. Grinding players to get gear to grind players has lost it's flavor. It's like chewing a piece of gum, eventually it's just tasteless and all your doing is making your jaw ache. PVP and it's effects on the game. Now, I enjoy PVP as much as the next guy but my forte is world PVP and this game really let me down big time. It may not let you down but it sure as hell made me sad. I ran into a total of 10-15 republic players from 20-50. It was depressing. I really wanted to cut up some Jedi in major battles. But they really did segregate the worlds way too much, and the fact the Pubbies got kicked swift in the balls on population, which is so sad. I felt like all the republic players were just Fluttering by and were really Shy. Structured PVP in this game is like it turned into in WoW, just way faster. You grind players - to get gear. To grind more players. With ranking this may change however, fostering a climate where the baubles at the end are the reward for killing people - is just going to get stale really quick. That being said: Huttball. Whoever designed this? Should be given some kind of medal and cash prize. With some tweaking and fixes, such as a bit wider map, this could be a sensational skill based map. It already is to some extents by planning jumps, pulls, pushes, and knock back's with traps and positioning in mind. It really is fantastic. Alderaan is really basic and boring, and Voidstar is pretty annoying to me anyway, the doors are just zerg fests and aoe bombs, there is little tactical skill involved besides THEY WENT LEFT! GO RIGHT! then maybe planting a bomb and popping a door. Crafting: Initially I thought this was pretty good. I'm a 400 biochem and 400 synthweaver on my main and alt. Pretty good right? Well, It just has no Feel to it. I don't like just sending my companions to do everything for me. I like having some interaction to make an item. It's like if I built a custom PC but had YOU do all the word and then sold it as if it were my own product that I hand crafted. That's really pretty minor. They should have learned from other MMO's and offered the other professions to do things like add augment sockets to the CRAFTERS GEAR ONLY instead of just random crit. Make mods? Give em some Rakata mods, only can have 3 but they're really good. Jewelcrafting much? Easy! Datacrons: No. Ew. Gross. I went for the ones on tat and the balloon despawned. That was enough for me. I'm not much of a codex guy either. Worlds are too static for my taste. Nothing really feels like it's moving, it's been a mirrored thought among quite a few posters, but hopefully they will change this issue in the future. I mean even maybe a waterfall Rainbow to Dash to would be nice, and see some kind of wildlife or NPC's milling around. Anyway. TL;DR, I think a lot of us may just be tired of what the standard is and may be looking to try new things, that's okay. We're not a Rarity by any means but I don't want SWTOR to die, or fail, or whatever nonsense people can make up. I'd just like some options on the market, not just Warcraft with different flavors. It looks like they may be coming, we'll see. For all your TORFanatics out there, keep rockin. This wasn't the game for me, but if it's the game for you? More power to you. Anyway, use this thread to discuss what you do and don't like about TOR, and how you think the game could be changed to make players like myself maybe think again about staying. Good ideas may come of it! No one's going to read this like ever, are they?

Actually it's totally acceptable that certain class--..Oh I get it! Nevermind I won't type out a long intelligent reply there's really no need. You already understand everything lol.